atanu 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 Dear Guest Ji Om Vinayaka Nama Om Om Nama Bhagavate Vasydevayya Nama Om Om Nama Sivvayya The original thread having become too long, I have started this. But this material is also added to thev end of the original thread – Dvaita-Advaita debate. ”••Krsna is not "embodied".. he's not a soul put in a body.. he'sat cit ananda rupa.. eternal, conscious, blissful...body, name, lilas, companions and so on. And brahman is his effulgence (as said in gita) ••in gita it is said that krsna person is the source of brahman impersonal.. so the role of source is exchanged, All the god's activities are leelas because they are not originated by needs, and they are sat cit ananda, not maya” OH, MY GOD. OH, MY GOD. ‘And brahman is his effulgence (as said in gita) ••in gita it is said that krsna person is the source of brahman impersonal’ (readers please check in the above para what he has written). The eternal effulgence of Brahman comes from Krishna. This I did not know. This must be there in the Srutis and the Upanishads about which I do not know. And the sages who wrote Upanishads also did not know. Is it there in the Bhagavatam? In Chapter VII of Gita: The way to the Supreme Spirit, Lord says: The blessed Lord said: Sloka 3. The highest imperishable principle is Brahman. Its existence as embodied soul is called Adhyatma (my comments: the Adi Atma or Para Atman), and the offerings (into sacrificial fire) which causes the development of beings. Later he says: I am that as Adhyajna in this body. Then in sloka 6 in the same chapter He states: 6. Thinking of whatever object at the time of death a person leaves the body, he attains, O son of Kunti, that very object, being constantly absorbed in its thought. 8. Therefore remember Me at all times and fight; with your mind and intellect devoted to Me, shall attain Me alone – there is no doubt about this. Do some exercise and find out that the Lord also says that one who attains me does not ever return. And you say that there the personality differences are eternal. Huhh. I could not find out where He is saying that He is above the one imperishable Brahman. Oh, yes. I understand what you mean, The Brahma Loka: the world of the unmanifested beings (spirits with desires remaining) that take birth again and again. Yes, personalities exist at this level. And know that at Brahma Loka, the entities are not CIts. They have residual desires that causes repeated births. Your understanding is very faulty and you don’t understand the difference of Brahma Loka – the abode of the creator Brahma and the Supreme Brahman, who is Hara that absorbs all differences and becomes Tamas only. ”••god is CIT, his parts and parcels are CIT because god gives to them consciousness, they are one, because god has to be omnipresent, but they are also different because difference is necessary for life, relationship, love ••this for material personality, but f there's a material one, you must have a spiritual one, because spirit is the origin of everything and spirit is not inferior to matter ••your opinion unsupported by your demonstration... if matter is various , spirit is various... so one (sat)cit(ananda) is the source of existence of infinite (sat)cit(anandas)... ••but there's a cit who emanates and infinite cits who are emanated.. this is basically the symbolism of quantity.. ••of course.. to believe that the absolute is beyond material variety.. is right, to believe that absolute has not spiritual variety, for me, for logic, scriptures, gita and many acharyas is maya ••please show it to me , maybe i can explain better.. god and parcels are both satcitananda, but the first is satcitananda because of his power.. parcels are satcitananda because this power is given by god” Guest Ji, you are not talking about CIT at all. Personality does not adhere to CIT. You are not talking about CIT. You are talking about greed, desire, cruelty. Vanity etc. etc. “Do you mean such personality differences reside at soul level? ••of course .. we are different now and in the absolute world, otherwise we will lose the possibility to relationate, to love ••if you have changement, progress, evolution in this world it is not possible to negate it in the spiritual one.. so there's eternity and evolution, simultaneously... radha brings a rose and a daisy to krsna, and krsna says "i like more the roses!".. and the next day radha brings roses.. eternity and evolution, this is life The how is your soul eternal, which you agreed earlier? ••variety is eternal, eternity is various” I love it. Guest ji says: of course .. we are different now and in the absolute world. He says, of course personality differences are eternal at soul level. In Haras world, he will exist as a different personality. Have you heard about slap of Bhairav? Let us again hear what the Lord says: 6. Thinking of whatever object at the time of death a person leaves the body, e attains, O son of Kunti, that very object, being constantly absorbed in its thought. 8. Therefore remember Me at all times and fight; with your mind and intellect devoted to Me, shall attain Me alone – there is no doubt about this. “••through maya, maya is the energy, the personified energy, and through her krsna gives the forgetfullness.. as stated in gita ••the consciousness of god is from himself, our consciousness is from god , not from ourselves.. it is stated in gita, it is demonstrated by the fact the when we have the desire to forget god, through maya, gives to us forgefulness... and when we develope, through religion, the desire to coe back in consciousness god makes us remember and come back in CIT” Oh, yes. The permanent differences in CIT, the giver of eternally different personality The from Maya. You stated it. Now, I remember. “••maya's world is not at all false, it is a perversion of spiritual world... like real world and prison or real world and hospital. In the jail you have some resemblance of the relationships and behaviours of the outside world, but simultaneously it is very different. The logic says that less is contained in more and not the opposite. So if in material world we have many, in spiritual world we cannot have one, we have more many... infinite ••transcendentally dynamic... if dynamism, changement is in the relative, it is also in the absolute... but it inconceivably coexist with oneness, identity My God. And now you state that Maya is eternal. Maya is eternal in general. But it is not eternal for all persons at all times. Through grace Maya is unveiled (you have stated it earlier. If Maya is eternal for all Jivas, all Jivas are eternally bonded since Maya will be eternal for all. Your idea about soul is faulty. Your idea about Brahman is faulty. Your idea about Maya is faulty. All yopur arguments stem from misconcetion that I am talking about Brahma Loka and not the Supreme Brahman who is unmanifest and formless but is source of all personalities and is infinitely more besides. Lord Krishna is born of that Brahman through AdyYagna: the original sacrifice. Ignorance is Biss.. And all the time the readers felt: What a grand discussion. Huhh. As further knowledge: After showing to Arjuna the vision of the Universe, The Lord says in Chapter XI (The Vision of the Universal Form: Sloka 32: I am the terrible Time (Kala), the destroyer of people ---------. Now friends know about Mahakala that is beyond and beneath the time. From MAITRAYANA-BRAHMAYA-UPANISHAD (A vaishnava Upanishad) ‘5. The Valakhilyas said: ‘O Saint, thou art the teacher, thou art the teacher. What thou hast said, has been properly laid up in our mind. Now answer us a further question: Agni, Vayu, Aditya, Time (kala) which is Breath (prana), Food (anna), Brahma, Rudra, Vishnu, thus do some meditate on one, some on another. Say which of these is the best for us.' He said to them: 6. These are but the chief manifestations of the highest, the immortal, the incorporeal Brahman. He who is devoted to one, rejoices here in his world (presence), thus he said. Brahman indeed is all this, and a man may meditate on, worship, or discard also those which are its chief manifestations. With these (deities) he proceeds to higher and higher worlds, and when all things perish, he becomes one with the Purusha, yes, with the Purusha.' Note, when all things perish he becomes one with Purusha. Then again: Further: 13. And thus it is said elsewhere: This food is the body of the blessed Vishnu, called Visvabhrit (all-sustaining). ------- 14. And thus it has been said elsewhere: Food is the cause of all this, Time of food, and the Sun is the cause of Time. Remember now friends, Sun is the cause of Time – Kala. And now the final stroke: 15 . There are two forms of Brahman, time (Kala) and non-time (Maha Kala). That which was before the (existence of the) sun is non-time and has no parts. That which had its beginning from the sun is Time and has parts. Of that which has parts, the year is the form, and from the year are born all creatures; ------- 'Time ripens and dissolves all beings in the great Self, but he who knows into what Time itself is dissolved, he is the knower of the Veda.' And what was before the SUN, before Kala? “2. In the beginning darkness alone was this. It was in the Highest, and, moved by the Highest, it becomes uneven. Thus it becomes obscurity. Then this obscurity, being moved, becomes uneven. Thus it becomes goodness. Then this goodness, being moved, the essence flowed forth. This is that part (or state of Self) which is entirely intelligent, reflected in man (as the sun is in different vessels of water) knowing the body (kshetragna), attested by his conceiving, willing, and believing, it is Pragapati, called Visva. His manifestations have been declared before. Now that part of him which belongs to darkness (before Kala), that, O students, is he who is called Rudra. --------. He being one, becomes three, becomes eight, becomes eleven, becomes twelve, becomes infinite.” So, friends, what was before Kala? What is Mahakala? Where is Kala absorbed at the end of a Kalpa? Atanu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gokulkr 1 Report post Posted March 21, 2004 Dear Atanuji, No debate please. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namah Sivaya /images/graemlins/smile.gif Om Namo Venkatesaya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 21, 2004 In Chapter VII of Gita: The way to the Supreme Spirit, Lord says: The blessed Lord said: Sloka 3. •••TEXT 3 manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah SYNONYMS manusyanam--of men; sahasresu--out of many thousands; kascit--someone; yatati--endeavors; siddhaye--for perfection; yatatam--of those so endeavoring; api--indeed; siddhanam--of those who have achieved perfection; kascit--someone; mam--Me; vetti--does know; tattvatah--in fact. TRANSLATION Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth. (where is impersonal brahman?) . . . . Then in sloka 6 in the same chapter He states: 6. Thinking of whatever object at the time of death a person leaves the body, he attains, O son of Kunti, that very object, being constantly absorbed in its thought. 8. Therefore remember Me at all times and fight; with your mind and intellect devoted to Me, shall attain Me alone – there is no doubt about this. Do some exercise and find out that the Lord also says that one who attains me does not ever return. And you say that there the personality differences are eternal. ••i do not check the exact translation because for this subject is not so important the 6 verse speaks about a subjecy who make the action to think of an object, if one's absorbed he attains the object.. so separation, not merging... if i give you a book you attain it, you do not merge in it the 8 says ME, remember ME and you shall attain ME alone... attain, not merge so two personalities, one meditates on krsna and he attains krsna... two subject and two actions, desire and so on . . . . I could not find out where He is saying that He is above the one imperishable Brahman. •••Chapter 13. Nature, the Enjoyer, and Consciousness TEXT 13 jneyam yat tat pravaksyami yaj jnatvamrtam asnute anadi mat-param brahma na sat tan nasad ucyate SYNONYMS jneyam--knowable; yat--that; tat--which; pravaksyami--I shall now explain; yat--which; jnatva--knowing; amrtam--nectar; asnute--taste; anadi--beginningless; mat-param--subordinate to Me; brahma--spirit; na--neither; sat--cause; tat--that; na--nor; asat--effect; ucyate--is called. TRANSLATION I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. This is beginningless, and it is subordinate to Me. It is called Brahman, the spirit, and it lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world. Chapter 14. The Three Modes Of Material Nature TEXT 3 mama yonir mahad brahma tasmin garbham dadhamy aham sambhavah sarva-bhutanam tato bhavati bharata SYNONYMS mama--My; yonih--source of birth; mahat--the total material existence; brahma--supreme; tasmin--in that; garbham--pregnancy; dadhami--create; aham--I; sambhavah--possibility; sarva-bhutanam--of all living entities; tatah--thereafter; bhavati--becomes; bharata--O son of Bharata. TRANSLATION The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth, and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings, O son of Bharata. . . . Oh, yes. I understand what you mean, The Brahma Loka: ••no brahma loka is in the material world, brahma is a jiva, not vishnutattva... i mean impersonal brahman Your understanding is very faulty ••surely, i am waiting for your satisfying explanations to change idea Guest Ji, you are not talking about CIT at all. Personality does not adhere to CIT. ••CIT means conscious... I am conscious that i am in india means that i know that i am in india... there's a person who makes an action (to know, to be conscious of) and and India who's the object of this action... In the ONENESS there's no CIT, if i am ONE alone, what is there to be conscious of? what is there to know? My God. And now you state that Maya is eternal. ••maya is god's energy, durga devi.. eternal. But it is not eternal for all persons at all times. ••of course, maya is meant to do it... to make us believe that eternity does not exist If Maya is eternal for all Jivas, all Jivas are eternally bonded since Maya will be eternal for all. ••no.. maya is eternal, maya's world is eternal, and there will be eternally inhabitants in maya's world... but by the grace of krsna and our desire to receive it we leave maya making his job and we come back to the absolute.. like you, jail is there but you are not affected All yopur arguments stem from misconcetion that I am talking about Brahma Loka and not the Supreme Brahman ••ehem.... even if i had not brought gita it is clear that i was talking of brahman and not brahma loka... /images/graemlins/smile.gif Ignorance is Biss.. ••not too much, when there's the moment to meet sri yama raja the bliss of ignorance disappear Sloka 32: I am the terrible Time (Kala), the destroyer of people ---------. ••krsna says "i am" not " impersonal brahman is" he becomes one with the Purusha, yes, with the Purusha.' ••vedic literature has to be read all together... if there's materialism the first concern of god is to destroy it, and the first idea to bring (as shankaracharya after buddha has destroyed vedic culture) is that spirit has not material variety... then you have the word PURUSHA... PURUSHA means "enjoyer"... enjoy is an action, the enjoyer is a person, and there's a variety of object to enjoy... so personalism and variety is hidden behind this upanishad verse who is surely more balanced towards impersonalism.... but there's PURUSHA.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif the blessed Vishnu, called Visvabhrit (all-sustaining). ------- ••person and actions Where is Kala absorbed at the end of a Kalpa? ••in the body of mahavishnu... but it do not stop his existence, it is unmanifested gokulr: Dear Atanuji, No debate please. Om Namah Sivaya Om Namo Venkatesaya ••why? it is very nice and enlivening... we are meant to speak about devotional subjects, mouth is there, better to speak of god than cinema, tv, politics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atanu 0 Report post Posted March 22, 2004 Om Namah Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya Om Om Namah Sivayya You said that Krishna as personality - body, name, lilas, companions and so on, is the source of impersonal Brahman as below. …”••Krsna is not "embodied".. he's not a soul put in a body.. he'sat cit ananda rupa.. eternal, conscious, blissful...body, name, lilas, companions and so on. And brahman is his effulgence (as said in gita) ••in gita it is said that krsna person is the source of brahman impersonal..” My comment: To prove, you cite the followings: “---------Chapter 13 TEXT 13 jneyam yat tat pravaksyami yaj jnatvamrtam asnute anadi mat-param brahma na sat tan nasad ucyate --------- TRANSLATION I shall now explain the knowable, knowing which you will taste the eternal. This is beginningless, and it is subordinate to Me. It is called Brahman, the spirit, and it lies beyond the cause and effect of this material world. Chapter 14. The Three Modes Of Material Nature TEXT 3 mama yonir mahad brahma tasmin garbham dadhamy aham sambhavah sarva-bhutanam tato bhavati bharata SYNONYMS mama--My; yonih--source of birth; mahat--the total material existence; brahma--supreme; tasmin--in that; garbham--pregnancy; dadhami--create; aham--I; sambhavah--possibility; sarva-bhutanam--of all living entities; tatah--thereafter; bhavati--becomes; bharata--O son of Bharata. TRANSLATION The total material substance, called Brahman, is the source of birth, and it is that Brahman that I impregnate, making possible the births of all living beings, O son of Bharata.-----------------.” My comments: These are from Gita as it is. So, I reproduce the purport from the author below: PURPORT The Lord has explained the field of activities and the knower of the field. -------- therefore the description of Brahman mentioned in this verse is in relation to the individual soul, and when the word Brahman is applied to the living entity, it is to be understood that he is vijnana-brahma as opposed to ananta-brahma. Ananta-brahma is the Supreme Brahman Personality of Godhead. My comments: Friends may please check up. Prabhupada himself says Brahma in this sloka refers to vijnana-brahma (Lord Brahma) and not to ananta-brahma( Brahman of Upanishads). Similarly in Sloka 3 of Chapter 14, again Material Brahma is referred to. Then, when I look up other authors, I see something more. I checked up several translations and could not find meaning of ‘anadi mat-param brahma’ as ‘Brahma is subordinate to Me’. Every other translator says: Anaadimatparam brahma is WITHOUT BEGINNING, THE HIGHEST Brahman Friends may check below and elsewhere. The same Sloka 13 of Chapter 13 is repeated below. From Chinmaya Mission Chicago sarwatah pAnipAdam tat sarwatah akshishiromukham sarwatah shrutimat loke sarwam Awrtya tishthati ||13.13|| "I will declare that which has to be "known", knowing which one attains to Immortality--the beginningless Supreme BRAHMAN, called neither being nor non-being." WITHOUT BEGINNING, THE HIGHEST Brahman (Anaadimatparam)- A beginning can be conceived and calculated only with reference to what is the substratum of all, which substratum must be existent even before Time. Thus, the Supreme is always considered as "beginningless". From the Supreme even Time is born. With reference to It, everything else is an "object". It is the one Subject From Trimbak Telano, Translated to English in 1882 I will declare that which is the object of knowledge, knowing which, one reaches immortality; the highest Brahman, having no beginning nor end, which cannot be said to be existent or non-existent. 5 It has hands and feet on all sides, it has eyes, heads, and faces on all sides, it has ears on all sides, it stands pervading everything in the world. Possessed of the qualities of all the senses, but devoid of all senses, unattached, it supports all, is devoid of qualities, and the enjoyer of qualities. 6 It is within all things and without them; it is movable and also immovable; it is unknowable through its subtlety; it stands both far off and near. Not different in different things, but standing as though different, it should be known to be the supporter of all things, and that which absorbs and creates them. It is the radiance even of the radiant bodies; it is said to be beyond darkness. It is knowledge, the object of knowledge, that which is to be attained to by knowledge, and placed in the heart of all. Thus in brief have Kshetra, knowledge, and the object of knowledge been declared. My devotee, knowing this, becomes fit for assimilation with me. Sanderson Beck "'What is to be known that I shall explain, knowing which, one attains immortality; this beginningless supreme God is said to be neither being nor non-being. Everywhere having hands and feet, everywhere eyes, heads, faces, everywhere in the world ears, this stands all pervading, From Swami Sivananda Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute; Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate. 13. I will declare that which has to be known, knowing which one attains to immortality, the beginningless supreme Brahman, called neither being nor non-being. Sarvatah paanipaadam tat sarvato’kshishiromukham; Sarvatah shrutimalloke sarvamaavritya tishthati. 14. With hands and feet everywhere, with eyes, heads and mouths everywhere, with ears everywhere, He exists in the worlds, enveloping all. Sarvendriyagunaabhaasam sarvendriyavivarjitam; Asaktam sarvabhricchaiva nirgunam gunabhoktru cha. 15. Shining by the functions of all the senses, yet without the senses; unattached, yet supporting all; devoid of qualities, yet their experiencer, Bahirantashcha bhootaanaam acharam charameva cha; Sookshmatwaat tadavijneyam doorastham chaantike cha tat. 16. Without and within (all) beings, the unmoving and also the moving; because of His subtlety, unknowable; and near and far away is That. Pandit Ramanand Prasad I shall fully describe the object of knowledge, knowing which one attains immortality. The beginningless Supreme Brahman is said to be neither Sat nor Asat. (See also 9.19) (13.12) Having hands and feet everywhere; having eyes, head, and face everywhere; having ears everywhere; the creator exists in the creation by pervading everything. (13.13) He is the perceiver of all sense objects without the senses; unattached, yet the sustainer of all; devoid of the Gunas, yet the enjoyer of the Gunas. (13.14) Pandit V. Jayaraman 1. "That which is to be known I will now declare to you by knowing which immortality is attained. The eternal Supreme Brahman is neither sat nor asat it is said. 2. "Everywhere hands and feet It has, Everywhere eyes, heads and faces, everywhere in the world ears. Everything It envelops sitting. 3. "Source of all the senses and qualities, but devoid of any senses, detached but bearing all, without qualities but partaker of the qualities. 4. "Outside and inside of all beings, moving and non moving, and also very subtle and incomprehensible, far away but also very nearer And You ignore Chapter VIII ----“3. Brahman is the Imperishable, the Supreme; His essential nature is called Self-knowledge; the offering (to HIM) causes existence and manifestation of beings and which sustains them is called action. Adhibhootam ksharo bhaavah purushashchaadhidaivatam; Adhiyajno’hamevaatra dehe dehabhritaam vara. 4. Adhibhuta (knowledge of the elements) pertains to My perishable Nature, and the Purusha or soul is the Adhidaiva; I alone am the Adhiyajna here in this body, O best among the embodied (men)! “------- You ignore that Brahman is imperishable. Adhydaiava (Purusha) is different and Adhyyajna is the original sacrifice of Purusha. By adhyyajna Lord Krishna exists. I will follow Gokul’s advice of not arguing any more. Thanks for calling me Asura. You might not know that Savitar is also called Asura in Rig Veda Atanu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 22, 2004 Ananta-brahma is the Supreme Brahman Personality of Godhead. ••if this terminology means supreme spiritual (=sat cit ananda) personality of godhead i do agree Prabhupada himself says Brahma in this sloka refers to vijnana-brahma (Lord Brahma) and not to ananta-brahma( Brahman of Upanishads). ••the prabhupada's teaching taken all together in any way lead to an idea of brahman generating krsna but the opposite Anaadimatparam brahma is WITHOUT BEGINNING, THE HIGHEST Brahman ••and i agree if it is meant to indicate the highest spiritual personality, krsna is without beginning and he's the highest brahman being the highest manifestation of spiritual existence A beginning can be conceived and calculated only with reference to what is the substratum of all, which substratum must be existent even before Time. Thus, the Supreme is always considered as "beginningless". From the Supreme even Time is born. ••and i agree, param brahman, param atma, bhagavan, supreme personality of godhead is beginningless the highest Brahman, having no beginning nor end, which cannot be said to be existent or non-existent. 5 ••these and the following ones are paradoxes to teach that there's no material variety in the spirit .. brahman. In the vedic literature, when one's well aware of it, there's the explanation of activities and variety in the spiritual realm, so we have itihasas and puranas so i am absolutely agree with the references you have brought, i do not discuss their autenticity or value, i see them in whai it seems to me the right perspective according my opinion and guru, sastra, tradition.. and logic so if you want to make me think different you have to bring logic I will follow Gokul’s advice of not arguing any more ••you are free to do it if you have any demonstration or simply if you are bored... many people will have the opportunity to see if this impersonalist idea of many "indian" religion is superimposed as a dogma or if it has logical basis. Even a poor dog with me, with little logic, was able to see something more Thanks for calling me Asura. ••i have already explained it, and if you read all our debate you will easily find who was more educate and correct, and who has given continously personal judgements of fanaticism and ignorance on the other namaste Y Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted April 7, 2004 Gita 14.27 commentary by Visvanatha Cakravarti and Narayana Maharaja http://igvp.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=books&file=index&req=visit&bkid=36&orderid=1 SLOKA 27 brahmaëo hi pratiñöhäham / amåtasyävyayasya ca çäçvatasya ca dharmasya / sukhasyaikäntikasya ca aham—I (am); hi—certainly; pratiñöhä—the shelter; brahmaëaù—for that (same) nirviçeña-brahma; ca—and (the shelter); avyayasya—for everlasting; amåtasya—immortality; ca—and; çäçvatasya dharmasya—for the eternal dharma; ca— and; sukhasya—for the happiness of prema; eka-antikasya— which is achieved through one-pointed (exclusive) devotion to Me. I alone am the basis of that nirviçeña-brahma and the sole refuge of everlasting immortality, eternal dharma and the transcendental bliss of prema arising from aikäntika-bhakti. SÄRÄRTHA-VARÑIËÉ (Visvanatha Commentary) One may raise the question: “How can Your bhaktas attain the state of nirguëa-brahma, which is possible only by experiencing oneness with brahma?” In response, Çré Bhagavän speaks this çloka beginning with the word brahmaëo. “I am indeed the basis (parama-pratiñöhä) of that brahma and am famous as the supreme basis of everything. Since brahma depends upon Me, I am its shelter, or basis. The word pratiñöhä (basis) has the same meaning as this in all çruti statements such as annamaya. And furthermore, I am also the basis (pratiñöhä) of immortality (amåta). Is this amåta heavenly nectar? No! It means imperishable mokña: çäçvatasya dharmasya. I am also the basis (parama-pratiñöhä) of bhakti, the supreme eternal dharma (sanätana-dharma) which is eternally existing both in the practice (sädhana) and perfected (siddha) stages, and I am the prema which is attained by aikäntika-bhakti. Thus, since everything depends on Me, one can attain the platform of brahma (characterised by Ç L O K A GUËA-T RAYA -V I B H Ä GA -YOGA �� 875 merging with brahma) by performing My bhajana performed with a desire to attain kaivalya.” Kaivalya here refers to a unique state of spiritual existence devoid of physical and mental activities. While commenting on this çloka, Çréla Çrédhara Svämé quotes Kåñëa as saying, “I am the pratiñöhä (basis) of brahma, which means that I am concentrated brahma. Although the sun is concentrated light, it is known as the shelter of light. In the same way, although I am the form of Kåñëa (kåñëa-svarüpa), I am the basis (brahmaëo hi pratiñöhäham) of nirviçeña-brahma.” The Viñëu Puräëa also proves this point. “That Viñëu is the shelter (äçraya) of all auspiciousness. He is the shelter of citta (consciousness) as well as of the all-pervading ätmä.” While commenting on this çloka, Çréla Çrédhara Svämé also writes that Viñëu is the parama-pratiñöhä (supreme shelter, or basis) of parabrahma, the omniscient ätmä. “As Çré Bhagavän says in Gétä, ‘I am the pratiñöhä (basis) of brahma.’” In Viñëu-dharma it is said, “Among prakåti, puruña and brahma, only puruña, Väsudeva, is the Lord. This is the conclusion.” The same çästra also states, “Just as Acyuta, paratattva Çré Bhagavän, is parabrahma, He is also Paramätmä.” In His pastime of bringing back the sons of the brähmaëa, Çré Kåñëa tells Arjuna that parabrahma extends Himself as various manifestations (vibhütis) throughout the entire universe. “O Arjuna, that concentrated effulgence should be considered to be My effulgent svarüpa” (Hari-vaàça Puräëa, Viñëu-parva 114.11.12). In Brahma-saàhitä (5.40) it is also said, “I perform bhajana to that primeval Lord Govinda. Brahma, who is born from His effulgence, divides the unlimited opulence in unlimited brahmäëòas (universes).” Also in Çrémad-Bhägavatam (8.24.38), Bhagavän Matsya told King Satyavrata: “At that time, I will respond to your 27 �� Ç R É M A D BHAGAVAD- G É T Ä C H A P T E R 14 876 questions, and by My mercy, My glory, popularly known as parabrahma, will manifest in your heart and you will be able to realise it completely.” Çré Madhusüdana Sarasvaté’s writes in his commentary: “The following doubt may be raised: ‘How can Your bhaktas, having attained to Your bhäva (transcendental nature), become qualified to achieve that state of brahma if You are different from brahma?’ Anticipating this doubt, Çré Bhagavän says: brahmaëo hi pratiñöhäham (pratiñöhä implies ‘I alone am sufficient and complete’). ‘Since I am the basis of brahma, if someone realises Me, then his realisation is sufficient and complete, and the realisation of brahma is also included in that.’” According to the Amara-koña dictionary, the word paryäpti means the complete Absolute Reality. Çrila Madhusüdhana Sarasvaté has composed a çloka to establish that brahma is saviçeña: parä-kåta-mana-dvandvaà paraà brahman naräkåtim saundarya-sära-sarvasvaà vande nandätmajam aham I worship the effulgent form of the essence of all beauty, the son of Nanda Mahäräja, the parabrahma who has a human form, and who has put aside the duality of my mind. The three guëas alone create all the anarthas which are obstacles on the path of perfection. This perfection for the jéva is ananya-bhakti, which he can only achieve when he is free from the three guëas. This is what has been explained in this chapter. Thus ends the Bhävänuväda of the Särärtha-Varñiëé Öékä, by Çréla Viçvanätha Cakravarté Öhäkura, on the Fourteenth Chapter of Çrémad Bhagavad-gétä, which gives pleasure to the bhaktas and is accepted by all saintly persons. Ç L O K A GUËA-T RAYA -V I B H Ä GA -YOGA �� 877 SÄRÄRTHA-VARÑIËÉ PRAKÄÇIKÄ-VÅTTI Çrila Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura quotes Arjuna as saying, “If You say that the attainment of brahma is the ultimate goal of all types of sädhana, then how is it possible for persons who have realised brahma to enjoy Your nirguëa-prema?” In response, Çré Bhagavän says, “In My eternal nirguëa state, in My svarüpa as Bhagavän, I place the conscious seed, the jéva, who is of the taöastha-çakti, in the womb of My inert material energy (jaòa-çakti). The mahad brahma, the selfeffulgence of My body, is the first manifestation of My spiritual realm, and is My brahma feature. When a baddha-jéva advances to higher and higher stages by cultivation of jïäna-yoga, he ultimately attains My feature of brahma. This is the first step of the nirguëa stage. Before attaining this step he is bewildered by a nirviçeña (featureless) feeling due to having given up all attraction to mundane variety. This nirviçeña-bhäva is removed by becoming situated in that nirguëa stage and by taking shelter of çuddhabhakti- yoga. He then realises the stage of cid-viçeña (transcendental variety). “Åñis, such as Sanaka and Vämadeva, who first deliberated on nirviçeña-brahma by following the path of jïäna, later achieved nectar in the form of nirguëa-bhakti-rasa by this process. Unfortunately, those who are forced by their lower desire to achieve mokña (salvation) cannot properly situate themselves in brahma-tattva, and therefore they do not attain nirguëa-bhakti as their highest stage of attainment. In the form of nirguëa-saviçeña-tattva (the Supreme Personality of Godhead), I am indeed the shelter (pratiñöhä) of brahma, which is the supreme destination of the jïänés. Immortality, imperishability, eternality, prema in the form of nitya-dharma (eternal occupation) and the ever-blissful state of vraja-rasa (the mellows of Vraja), are all attainable by taking shelter of My 27 �� Ç R É M A D BHAGAVAD- G É T Ä C H A P T E R 14 878 kåñëa-svarüpa, that para-tattva who is nirguëa (beyond the material modes) and full of variety (saviçeña).” Mukti-pradätä sarveñäà viñëur eva na saàçayaù. “Viñëu alone is the bestower of mukti.” Çruti also says: tam eva viditvätimåtyum eti. “Merely by knowing Him, one becomes free from the clutches of death” (Çvetäçvatara Upaniñad 3.8). Padma Puräëa also says: viñëor anucaratvaà hi mokñam ähur manéñinaù. “The thoughtful sages who have realised the Absolute (those who are tattva-darçé), say that mokña means service to the lotus feet of Bhagavän.” Skanda Puräëa says: kaivalaya-daù paraà brahma visnur eva sanätanaù. “Only Viñëu, who is the supreme brahma, is beyond impersonal oneness and is eternal.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
