I_love_krishna_ 0 Report post Posted September 22, 2003 karmendriyani samyamya ya aste manasa smaran indriyarthan vimudhatma mithyacarah sa ucyate One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender. ------------------------ This above verse is saying that one who cannot control his senses is a liar. I do my best to control my senses, but fail to do so sometimes, is this an offense against krishna? Am I a cheater in this way? But the purport talks about a different kind of cheating : purport : There are many pretenders who refuse to work in Krsna consciousness but make a show of meditation, while actually dwelling within the mind upon sense enjoyment. Such pretenders may also speak on dry philosophy in order to bluff sophisticated followers, but according to this verse these are the greatest cheaters. For sense enjoyment one can act in any capacity of the social order, but if one follows the rules and regulations of his particular status, he can make gradual progress in purifying his existence. But he who makes a show of being a yogi while actually searching for the objects of sense gratification must be called the greatest cheater, even though he sometimes speaks of philosophy. His knowledge has no value, because the effects of such a sinful man's knowledge are taken away by the illusory energy of the Lord. Such a pretender's mind is always impure, and therefore his show of yogic meditation has no value whatsoever. So, are you a cheater if you cannot control your senses or are you a cheater if you just make off money by going into some woods to meditate? /images/graemlins/confused.gif Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 22, 2003 You are cheating others if while constantly thinking of sense gratification, you give the impression that your senses are under control and allow others to praise you for your self-control. You are cheating yourself if you are deluded into thinking you have mastered your senses because you are not acting on them and yet are still constantly contemplating sense objects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I_love_krishna_ 0 Report post Posted September 22, 2003 Thank you prabhu, but I was actually focusing the cheating on krishna. So, Am I cheating Krishna if I lose control of my senses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anadi 0 Report post Posted September 23, 2003 "So, Am I cheating Krishna if I lose control of my senses? " You are not in the position to cheat Krishna. Never think like this. But maybe you think you can cheat gurudeva. "On the contrary, I see so many who, as Syamarani has told, are covering what is there in their hearts. [Please see the end of this lecture for details] They think, "My Gurudeva doesn't know anything; he is foolish. I can cheat him." They don't say this directly, but they think in this way. They think they can bluff Maharaja or any pure devotee, but a pure devotee cannot be bluffed. He who can control Krsna - how can you bluff him? If he is really Guru, he can never be cheated or bluffed. You should know the identity of Guru. Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami has written in his Mana Siksa prayers, "Nadharmam nadharmam srutigana. O mind, you should always consider that Sri Sacinandana, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, is actually Brajendranandana Syamasundara, and He is actually Guru." Raya Ramananda told Mahaprabhu, "I am only your instrument. What I am speaking is only by your inspiration. You are speaking. The mouth is mine, but actually everything is being said by you." One may say, "I want to serve Mahaprabhu like the gopis: He is my beloved Mahaprabhu, and I am His beloved." Can we do this or not? This is sahajiya. This is called gauranga-nagari-bhava, and it is apa-siddhanta, against conclusive philosophical truth. We should not think in this way. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Guru, and we should do whatever He orders. One day Vallabha Bhatta said to Advaita Acarya, "Why do you loudly chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare? Every living entity is female and considers Krsna her husband. It is the duty of a chaste wife, devoted to her husband, not to utter her husband's name, but all of you chant the name of Krsna. How can this be called a religious principle?" Advaita Acarya responded, "In front of you is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the personification of religious principles. You should ask Him, for He will give you the proper answer." Hearing this, Mahaprabhu said, "My dear Vallabha Bhatta, you do not know religious principles. Actually, the first duty of a chaste woman is to carry out the order of her husband. The order of Krsna is to chant His name incessantly. Therefore one who is chaste and adherent to the husband, Krsna, must chant the Lord's name, for she cannot deny the husband's order. Following this religious principle, a pure devotee of Krsna always chants the holy name. As a result of this, he gets the fruit of ecstatic love for Krsna. My husband has ordered me to chant this. He has said, 'You should do this, and that will make Me happy.' I must make Him happy. I should serve Him." Hearing this, Vallabha Bhatta could not say a word. Previous to this, Vallabha Bhatta had told Mahaprabhu, "I have tried to describe elaborately the meaning of Krsna's holy name. Kindly hear the explanation." Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "I do not accept many different meanings for the holy name of Krsna. I know only that Krsna is Syamasundara and Yasodanandana. That's all I know. The only purport of the holy name of Krsna is that He is dark blue like a tamala tree and is the son of mother Yasoda. This is the conclusion of all the revealed scriptures. I conclusively know these two names, Syamasundara and Yasodanandana. I do not understand any other meanings, nor have I the capacity to understand them." Whatever Vallabha Bhatta said, Mahaprabhu simply replied in such away that he became speechless. He wanted to defeat Mahaprabhu and show his own glory. He wanted to show, "How qualified I am. How learned I am." But Caitanya Mahaprabhu is jagad- guru. Therefore, whatever He has ordered and whatever He has taught - we should try to follow totally. Mahaprabhu has told us, "You should chant Krsna's name. Hare Krsna." Actually Krsna has ordered this in the shape of Mahaprabhu, and therefore we must follow. Understand that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Guru. He is Krsna Himself, with the mood of Radhika. It is very important to know this. Does anyone know anything in this world that can cover the knowledge of Mahaprabhu? Can anything be hidden from Him? Those who have this Guru, Mahaprabhu, in their hearts cannot be cheated or bluffed. Never, Those who try to bluff them will be bluffed. We should not try to cheat Guru or Vaisnavas. All Vaisnavas are Guru, and to do what they want is bhakti." Spoken by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja 2001 Jan 24 - Murwillumbah Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armisael108 0 Report post Posted September 23, 2003 My dear prabhu the only person you can cheat is yourself. And the verse speaks about those who show renunciation but their mind dwells in sense gratification. One way to see it is for someone to take sannyasa, but still has sex desire. He is cheating himself badly. In the purport Prabhupada also denounces such yogis making a show-bottle meditation. A show bottle is nice on the outside, but it has no substance inside. This is the cheating, you cheat yourself from having the thick nectar of krishna-prema. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 25, 2003 << So, are you a cheater if you cannot control your senses >> yes, you are cheating your self only. to control the senses externaly, but engage the mind in the subject of the senses is cheating the self. that does not help you progress spiritually in any yoga. jai sri krishna! -madhav Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites