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“Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste”.

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"Those who worship natural things enter darkness. Those who worship created things

enter even deeper into darkness"

 

if this is what the sanskrit verse means, then is it not a sin for us to worship idols in our houses and in temples!

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"Those who worship natural things enter darkness. Those who worship created things

enter even deeper into darkness"

if this is what the sanskrit verse means, then is it not a sin for us to worship idols in our houses and in temples!

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Vinay,

 

You will have to go deeper than that. You are looking at the surface. The answer is, of course, yes it is a sin to worship any idol. But you are mistaken is you think that the acha-vigraha of Sri Krsna is an idol. I will post some words on this matter spoken by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati tonight if I get the chance.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

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When ViSNujan SwAmI offered prasAd, while bowing down, forehead aground, he'd recite a special prayer aloud in English which contained the phrase:

"For You can change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter as You like."

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When ViSNujan SwAmI offered prasAd, while bowing down, forehead aground, he'd recite a special prayer aloud in English which contained the phrase:

"For You can change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter as You like."

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When ViSNujan SwAmI offered prasAd, while bowing down, forehead aground, he'd recite a special prayer aloud in English which contained the phrase:

"For You can change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter as You like."

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Originally posted by Tarun:

When ViSNujan SwAmI offered prasAd, while bowing down, forehead aground, he'd recite a special prayer aloud in English which contained the phrase:

"For You can change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter as You like."

So what of the argument that life cannot come from matter ????

 

Arguments of this kind are not consistent with the view that the Supreme "can change matter into spirit, or spirit into matter" ?????

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Bhagavat Gita 7-23 : Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

Bhagvad Gita 7-24:The foolish regard Me as the unmanifested coming in manifestation, knowing not My higher, immutable, unsurpassed nature. Not knowing my higher nature as the Supreme Self,

the ignorant think that I have just now come into manifestation, having been unmanifested

hitherto, though I am the ever luminous Lord.To what is their ignorance due

 

The gita also suggests that it is wrong to believe that God in the manifested form can be worshipped, because if done so, then it is done by people of lesser intelligence!

 

Further,

na tasya pratima asti” (There is no image of Him) [Yajurved 32 : 3]

 

 

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Bhagvad Gita 7:23- antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

Bhagvad Gita 7:24- avyaktam vyaktim apannam

manyante mam abuddhayah

param bhavam ajananto

mamavyayam anuttamam

 

these are the sanskrit slokas of the above english translations of thhe gita above.

 

 

 

------------------

 

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Bhagavat Gita 7-23 : Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are

limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the

demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.

 

Bhagvad Gita 7-24:The foolish regard Me as the unmanifested coming in manifestation,

knowing not My higher, immutable, unsurpassed nature. Not knowing my higher nature as

the Supreme Self,

the ignorant think that I have just now come into manifestation, having been unmanifested

hitherto, though I am the ever luminous Lord.To what is their ignorance due

 

The gita also suggests that it is wrong to believe that God in the manifested form can be

worshipped, because if done so, then it is done by people of lesser intelligence!

 

Further,

na tasya pratima asti” (There is no image of Him) [Yajurved 32 : 3]

Bhagvad Gita 7:23- antavat tu phalam tesam

tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam

devan deva-yajo yanti

mad-bhakta yanti mam api

 

Bhagvad Gita 7:24- avyaktam vyaktim apannam

manyante mam abuddhayah

param bhavam ajananto

mamavyayam anuttamam

 

these are the sanskrit slokas of the above english translations of thhe gita above.

 

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"Just as a spider brings forth from its heart its web and emits it through its mouth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead manifests Himself as the reverberating primeval vital air, comprising all sacred Vedic meters and full of transcendental pleasure. Thus the Lord, from the ethereal sky of His heart, creates the great and limitless Vedic sound by the agency of His mind, which conceives of variegated sounds such as the sparsas.

The Vedic sound branches out in thousands of directions, adorned with the different letters expanded from the syllable om: the consonants, vowels, sibilants and semivowels. The Veda is then elaborated by many verbal varieties, expressed in different meters, each having four more syllables than the previous one. Ultimately the Lord again withdraws His manifestation of Vedic sound within Himself."

 

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Originally posted by vinay:

“Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste”.

 

Here's how Srila Prabhupada translates it in Ishopanisad 12:

 

Those who are engaged in the worship of demigods enter into the darkest region of ignorance, and still more so do the worshipers of the impersonal Absolute.

 

cf., text 9:

 

andham tamah pravisanti

ye ’vidyam upasate |

tato bhüya iva te tamo

ya u vidyayam ratah ||

 

Those who engage in the culture of nescient activities shall enter into the darkest region of ignorance. Worse still are those engaged in the culture of so-called knowledge.

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Originally posted by vinay:

Further,

na tasya pratima asti” (There is no image of Him) [Yajurved 32 : 3]

We have to be careful as to the context of the slokas. God as in Brahman is without form. So worshipping Brahman's idol would not be correct. But the supreme Godhead Krisna is with form and worshipping his idol seems fine to me.

 

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Transforming matter to spirit can be done by God, generally by injecting jIvAtma at conception time, but not confined to that.

Voodoo worship includes phantoms entering & animating matter etc.

Balcksmith iron kept in fire becoming red-hot like fire is another aspect of same proposal.

So many devotees did so much seva for so many years, then somehow or other returned to material life.

We describe them:

He used to be so fired up, she used to sell so many books...

Fired up means?

When tamoguN passes rajoguN on up to sattvaguN we say "Fired up!"

First Canto 2nd Chapter verse:

"Smoke is better than wood, but fire is best, similarly..."

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I saw the translations. This is not correct. This verse is a difficult verse to understand. Asambhuti does means "Prakriti" and hence it means everything we see hear etc in this universe. Sambhuti means the Hiranyagarbhan (According to Adi sankara). Hiranyagarbhan is Brahma the creator or simply it means seed of creation or seed of creator or GOD. This is a strange way isavasya upanishad saying the meaning. So meaning of this verse is "Those who worship, Prakriti [ONLY] goes to darkness and those who worship creation seed (GOD?) alone , enter even more darkness. So Sambhuti and asambhuti both need to be worshipped.

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I saw the translations. This is not correct. This verse is a difficult verse to understand. Asambhuti does means "Prakriti" and hence it means everything we see hear etc in this universe. Sambhuti means the Hiranyagarbhan (According to Adi sankara). Hiranyagarbhan is Brahma the creator or simply it means seed of creation or seed of creator or GOD. This is a strange way isavasya upanishad saying the meaning. So meaning of this verse is "Those who worship, Prakriti [ONLY] goes to darkness and those who worship creation seed (GOD?) alone , enter even more darkness. So Sambhuti and asambhuti both need to be worshipped.

Again, isavasy says , Those who worship Avidya alone enter darkness and those, who worship Vidya alone enter even more darkness. Here Vidya means worship of Gods and Godesses and Avidya means performing varna asrama dharma (caste rules and rituals). The real meaning is one should both observe caste rules and also worship Gods and Godesses.

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Also, imported vinay, tell me what do you mean by the below isavasyopanishad sentence from yajur veda?

 

sambhutim cha vinasham cha, yastad vedo bhayam saha,

vinasena mrutyum teerthua, sambhutyamruta masnutey.

 

With vinasha (Asambhuti?) conquer death and with Sambhuti get Amrutham (moksha? godhood?).... So as per you both sambhuti and asambhuti are useless. But this sloka negetes it.... These are useful to conquer death and get godhood????

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