Deepak Chopra & the "new" religion.

[Gauracandra 1]

I didn't want to deviate from Jijaji's posting, so I thought I'd start a new one. Anyone have an opinion of Deepak Chopra? I won't claim to know a whole lot about him, but I did look through one of his books a few years back. Basically my view was that it was just the typical self-help book (like Tony Robbins and all the rest), but with an eastern philosophy angle. It was just too touchy feely for me, where everything was just thrown in. I'm not a big believer in the self-help movement, but I do think it is gradually becoming the "new" religion. Even Christian preachers I see on TV now sound just like self-help promoters. The Bible and Jesus are just there to help you achieve a better marriage, sounder finances, and such. Thats what I'm seeing in the culture right now. But I have a feeling the self-help movement is going out of fashion. It was in during the touchy-feely '90s, but I'm thinking since 9-11 people are looking for something more solid. We'll see.

 

Gauracandra

[gHari 0]

We don't want religion because it gets in our way of enjoyment. We are too attached. The only way to hook our interest is through these other touchy-feely topics with real benefits for ME. Perhaps then some will start waking up, and gradually Jesus or Supersoul can work their magic.

 

As we all know, remembering God is anticeptic. But we like the disease, just as pigs really enjoy their mud and stool sty. So most people will become angry at the mention of God, for anger is the result when attachments are not satisfied.

 

This explanation also explains the need for a variety of religious disciplines as noted by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura:

http://geocities.com/caitanyamahaprabhu/garland.htm/#nonsectarian

[suryaz 0]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I didn't want to deviate from Jijaji's posting, so I thought I'd start a new one. Anyone have an opinion of Deepak Chopra? I won't claim to know a whole lot about him, but I did look through one of his books a few years back. Basically my view was that it was just the typical self-help book (like Tony Robbins and all the rest), but with an eastern philosophy angle. It was just too touchy feely for me, where everything was just thrown in. I'm not a big believer in the self-help movement, but I do think it is gradually becoming the "new" religion. Even Christian preachers I see on TV now sound just like self-help promoters. The Bible and Jesus are just there to help you achieve a better marriage, sounder finances, and such. Thats what I'm seeing in the culture right now. But I have a feeling the self-help movement is going out of fashion. It was in during the touchy-feely '90s, but I'm thinking since 9-11 people are looking for something more solid. We'll see.

 

Gauracandra

What does "touchy-feely '90s" mean?

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by suryaz (edited 12-17-2001).]

[Guest guest]

Deepak is a renegade disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He left thr TM movement and started his own 'Primordial Sound Meditation' based on Vedic mathemathics and sounds that were in nature at the time of your birth and used as mantra, much the same way TM mantras are used. He also was one of the first western trained doctors to implement ayurveda into his practice and promote meditation as beneficial for a healthy lifestyle.

 

As far as 'New Religion' it seems the traditional role of Eternal Sad-Guru is being replaced here with 'Meditation Teacher'

no worship just a respectful recognition.

 

it has it's place I believe...

 

jijaji

 

[This message has been edited by jijaji (edited 12-17-2001).]

[Bhakta Don Muntean 0]

Originally posted by jijaji:

Deepak is a renegade disciple of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He left thr TM movement and started his own 'Primordial Sound Meditation' based on Vedic mathemathics and sounds that were in nature at the time of your birth and used as mantra, much the same way TM mantras are used. He also was one of the first western trained doctors to implement ayurveda into his practice and promote meditation as beneficial for a healthy lifestyle.

 

As far as 'New Religion' it seems the traditional role of Eternal Sad-Guru is being replaced here with 'Meditation Teacher'

no worship just a respectful recognition.

 

it has it's place I believe...

 

jijaji

 

 

 

All Glories to Shrila Prabhupada

 

Dear jijaji:

 

Clear and to the point.

 

You are correct--they have their Place these Teachers yet I do not Encourage People to become involved in any Chopra, Programs--as they are a Commercial Mayavadisim as is the Movement of his Original mentor--"maharishi whatever Yogi".

 

One thing is that these programs can be a Spring Board for Sincere Souls.

 

His "Mantra" Program is totally Mental Concocton--"Primordial Sound"--Gheesh!

 

Yet as you very aptly pointed out he has his place...

 

Your Servant,

 

Bhakta don

 

 

ps: The Mahamantra--that is where its at!

[Guest guest]

Upasana in the Vedic Period

 

It is possible that even during the early Vedic period there were independent thinkers and groups of people who practiced meditation as their chief spiritual discipline. That was perhaps how the Samkhya and Yoga systems developed independently of the Vedas.

 

In Vedic literature upasana first appears as a part of rituals in the Brahmanas (the part of the Veda which deals with rituals). The emphasis then was on sacrificial rites (yajna). In the Brahmanas we find a few meditations prescribed along with these rites. The sacrifice was regarded as most important and sufficient in itself to produce the desired results. The meditation that was practiced along with it was only an auxiliary part of it and had no independent existence. The purpose of such meditations was to gain some additional merit and their omission in no way affected the sacrifices. This kind of upasana was called angavabaddha meaning "connected to parts (of the sacrifice)."

 

Gradually, upasana became separated from the rituals. In the Aranyakas we find meditations replacing actual sacrifices. But the meditations still resembled the sacrifices. They were mostly symbolic representations of external rituals. The whole external rite was, as it were, transferred to the mind. These upasanas may therefore be called "substitution-meditations." A well-known example is found in the very beginning of the Brihadaranyaka Upanisad which is an Aranyaka as well as an Upanisad. Here the sacrificial horse is to be meditated upon as identified with the Cosmic Being (Virat or Prajapati), the horse’s head standing for the dawn, its eye for the sun, its prana for the air and so on.

 

The next stage in the evolution of upasana is found in the Upanisads. Here meditations are in no way connected to rituals nor even symbolically resemble them. They directly deal with Brahman, the ultimate Reality. But Brahman is a transcendent principle which cannot be known through the ordinary senses and mind. So the great sages of the Upanisads used various familiar objects of the phenomenal universe like the sun, akasa (space), vayu (air), water, prana (the vital energy), manas (mind), words, etc. to represent Brahman. However, what the sages attempted was not mere concentration of mind on one of these symbols. In that case it would have become only a form of the yogic exercise known as dharana. What they actually did was to connect each symbol to a certain framework of meaning—a spiritual formula. Upasana in the Upanisads are meditations on these spiritual formulas. These formulas are devices to guide the mind from the symbol to Reality. When a mind which is sufficiently purified meditates on such a formula, its true meaning—the ultimate Reality—will be revealed to it. These meditation formulas were called vidyas.

 

So then, angavabaddhas (in the Brahmanas), substitution-meditations (in the Aranyakas) and vidyas (in the Upanisads): these were the three stages in the evolution of upasana during the Vedic period. Sri Sankara says that lower upasanas do not deserve to be called vidyas.

 

Therefore, vidyas represent the highest forms of upasana. The entire knowledge of the Upanisads came out of the meditations of the great rishis on these vidyas. It was through these meditations that they discovered the great truths that underlie the phenomenal universe. A scientist tries to understand the ultimate truth through a series of steps, meticulously analyzing each step. But in ancient India the sages went straight to the Reality with the help of certain mental paradigms. Says Deussen: "That India more than any other country is the land of symbols is owing to the nature of Indian thought, which applied itself to the most abstruse problems before it was even remotely in a position to treat them intelligently."

 

Vidyas are paradigms of Brahman. In ancient India each teacher developed his or her own concept model of Brahman and taught it as a meditation technique to his or her disciples. That was how so many vidyas came into existence. Some of the Upanisads, especially the Brihadaranyaka, Chandogya and Taittiriya, are a rich storehouse of these vidyas. The importance attached to the vidyas was so great that the Brahma-Sutra has a whole section dealing exclusively with them. The vidyas really hold the key to the Upanisads, and no one can properly understand the Upanisads without understanding the vidyas.

 

The vidyas are said to be thirty-two in number, but many more must have been known to the ancient sages. Among these gayatri-vidya, antaraditya-vidya, madhu-vidya, sandilya-vidya and dahara-vidya are well known. It is beyond the scope of the present article to deal with these vidyas in detail. They are to be learnt directly from competent teachers who have attained illumination through them. But long before the beginning of the Christian era the lineage of Vedic rishis had ended. And in the absence of a living tradition, the vidyas ceased to be practiced and their true inner meaning was soon forgotten.

 

One major cause for the neglect of the vidyas was the rise of Buddhism and its influence on Hindu thought. A second reason was the crystallization of Hindu philosophy into six schools or darsanas and the triumph of the Advaita system. Nondual experience was originally sought through a gradual expansion of consciousness attained by the practice of vidyas. But gradually the goal became more important than the means. Vedanta neglected its mystical roots, became more speculative and polemical, and thus moved farther away from life and experience. A third reason for the neglect of the vidyas was the popularity of Yoga and, later on, of the Tantras.

 

Under the influence of Yoga and Tantra new techniques of meditation were developed during the Middle Ages which survive to this day. Meditation techniques in modern times are strongly influenced by Yoga and Tantra. We are now witnessing a great revival of mysticism, and ancient methods are being adjusted to suit the needs of modern aspirants.

 

Some enterprising people are experimenting with new techniques of meditation.

 

from Vedanta.org

 

[Gauracandra 1]

What does "touchy-feely '90s" mean?

Perhaps this isn't the best phrase. I'll explain what I mean, and perhaps we can come up with a better description. Basically every decade seems to have a certain cultural atmosphere. Of course 10 years is a bit arbitrary, but over that time frame we can see distinct patterns emerge. The 70s are distinct from the 80s, the 80s from the 90s etc....

 

My view is that the 90s were extremely shallow and without substance. Musically for instance, we started the decade off in the early 90s with the slacker gen-x grunge music of Nirvana (and other such bands). These were kids who were rebelling against the oppression of living comfortably in the suburbs. They wanted to pretend they had a cause but really were just a bunch of whinners. When Kurt Cobain blew his brains out, the media tried to turn him into the next John Lennon, but a generation that cared for nothing really didn't give a damn that their "hero" was dead. They could buy a new one at the local music store. At the end of the 90s we closed out the decade with a resurgence of bubble gum pop with Britany Spears and N-sync.

 

The 90s were marked by how "ironic" everything was. If something was quirky or had pop culture references it was considered unique and different.

 

Politically nothing much happened either. The cold war was over. So what was the next big issue to grab the nation? Bill Clinton's personal life. There was nothing else out there. No great issues, no sweeping reforms. A great president is marked by times of great turmoil.

 

While the self-help movement has been around for quite some time (I believe Napoleon Hill started it all with "Think and Grow Rich"), I think it really took off in the 90s. Go to the book store and see how many "Chicken Soup for the Soul" books you see. There is Chicken Soup for the Elderly Soul, Chicken Soup for the Cat lovers Soul, Chicken Soup for the Divorced Soul, Chicken Soup for the Christian Soul... Seriously its ridiculous, and it is just cranked out self-help. Its an industry. I'm not kidding but I expect to see "Chicken Soup for the Vegetarians Soul".

 

I see this in the corporate world alot. The truth is that businesses are one of the biggest supporters of the self-help movement, and I have really seen this take off in the 90s. Its just cheaper to give a person a $20 book, or a $200 seminar, rather than a $3000 pay raise. But I have noticed in the last year that my company atleast has dropped alot of these self-help books. They were just too cheesy, and many thought they were being talked down to.

 

So this is my view of the 90s. "Touchy Feely" might not be the best phrase. But I think it was very substanceless, and insecure. Its funny but the President of the U.S. usually sets the tone for the decade. Its odd almost. I'm thinking this next decade might be a reaction to all the fluff of the 90s, and perhaps we'll turn to traditions and a certain somberness and substanceness (is that a word?). We'll see in 10 years.

 

Gauracandra

 

[This message has been edited by Gauracandra (edited 12-18-2001).]

[Gauracandra 1]

Yeah, what Suryaz said

 

It seems kind of odd, but when we look at large chunks of time, it is obvious how the culture changes. Even though the time increments may be a bit arbitrary, still we can see these changes. What I've noticed myself in the last few years is just how far our culture is pushing the envelope. Its amazing if you see whats permissible on television for instance today compared to just 10 years ago. Programs that were controversial a few years back, are just standard fare now. It will be interesting to see where this is all headed.

 

Gauracandra

[suryaz 0]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

90s. "Touchy Feely '90"

Thank you Gauracandra,

 

Could it be:

 

To treat the psychological efferism (that which provides motivation and is enhanced with a kind of felicity) created around something, where bluff is the foundation, as a reality that has a realistic foundation?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Help, I have a test tomorrow and was wondering if anyone knows the "6 stages of consciousness from the Vedic tradition (from India) Deepak Chopra

 

thats how the question is worded in my study guide, so I assume the 6 stages have to do with Deepak Chopra?

 

Help, please!

[Guest guest]

Deepak Chopra is just re-packaging Vedanta for a western audience, avoiding sanskrit terms and using the nearest western equivelent. He has just combined vedantic teachings with western self-help philosophy. Easy job, anyone could've done it, but Deepak has done it first, so he now owns that area and is a multi-millionaire.

 

Self-help will not take over, there will always be a place for religion to some degree, but religion will be forced to evolve and adapt to face the challenges of science and rationality in the future. Eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism have the best chance of surviving this challenge, but the Abrahamic faiths are going to have a hard time.

[Maharishi 0]

Primordial Sound Meditation

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

I think I have discovered the mantras that Deepak Chopra uses in his famous Primordial Sound Meditation. I have been initiated also and I have some knowledge of mantras and meditation, so I can tell.

The structure of the mantra = Aum "Beej mantra" namah

Beej mantra = a mantra which starts with the Nakshatra Pada Sound of your birth Nakshatra-pada (= the Nakshatra pada in which the moon falls at the time of your birth). The sound of your birth Nakshatra is your PERSONAL BIJA or BEEJA SOUND. After the PERSONAL BEEJA SOUND, usually there is an addition with "m" or "aam" or "eem" or "oom" to make it a complete PERSONAL BEEJA or BIJA Mantra with a bindu (ending).

For example : If your BEEJA SOUND = VA, then your mantra will be Aum VAAM namah. And if your BEEJA SOUND = PEE then your mantra will be Aum PEEM namah. You can find the list of Nakshatra Pada Sounds on the internet.

I have been meditating with a lot of mantras and methods, but I must admit that meditating with my PERSONAL BEEJA MANTRA gives extraordinary results. I found it to be very beneficial for my body and mind and it really stills my mind. I feel myself very familiar with my PERSONAL BEEJA MANTRA.

Before, I have practiced Transcendental Meditation , but the problem there is that the BEEJA's are not personal, but are associated with forms of Shakti. And the problem of Shakti is that it causes business and heaviness instead of stillness. So, I quit practising TM and started with the Primordial Sound Meditation.

[Maharishi 0]

Primordial Sound Meditation BEEJ BEEJA BIJA Mantra Mantras <HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

Below here I provide a list with the personal BEEJ or BEEJA or BIJA sounds associated with each Nakshatra Pada in which the moon falls at the time of your birth.

 

By adding "M" (bindu) to these sounds you get the personal BEEJ or BEEJA of BIJA MANTRAS used in the famous Primordial Sound Meditation of Deepak Chopra and David Simon.

 

By placing "Aum" before and "Namah" after the personal BEEJ or BEEJA or BIJA MANTRA you get the complete Primordial Sound Meditation Mantra.

 

Ashvini Nakshatra

Chu (as in Fu-Manchu)

Che (as in chase)

Cho (as in choke)

La (as in lava)

Bharani Nakshatra

Li (as in lilt)

Lu (as in lute)

Le as in leg)

Lo (as in local)

Krittika Nakshatra

A (as in ananda)

I (as in iridescent)

U (as in uvula)

E (as in egg)

Rohini Nakshatra

O (as in odor)

Va (as in vanilla)

Vi (as in Vina)

Vo (as in vote)

Mrigashira Nakshatra

Ve (as in Veda)

Vo (as in votary)

Ka (as in Kanji)

Ke (as in Kenya)

Ardra Nakshatra

Ku (as in Kuwait)

Gha (as in Ghana)

Ng (pronounced "ng")

Chha (as in Churchill)

Punarvasu Nakshatra

Ke (as in Kenya)

Ko (as in kodiac)

Ha (as in hardy)

Hi (as in hither)

Pushya Nakshatra

Hu (as in hurrah)

He (as in heyday)

Ho (as in homogenous)

Da (no English equiv.)

Ashlesha Nakshatra

Di (no English equiv.)

Du (no English equiv.)

De (no English equiv.)

Do (no English equiv.)

Magha Nakshatra

Ma (as in maya)

Mi (as in miracle)

Mu (as in mudra)

Me (as in megabyte)

Purvaphalguni Nakshatra

Mo (as in motion)

Ta (no English equiv.)

Ti (no English equiv.)

Tu (no English equiv.)

Uttaraphalguni Nakshatra

Te (no English equiv.)

To (no English equiv.)

Pa (no English equiv.)

Pi (no English equiv.)

Hasta Nakshatra

Pu (as in purusha)

Sha (as in shanti)

Na (no English equiv.)

Tha (no English equiv.)

Chitra Nakshatra

Pe (as in Peru)

Po (as in pole)

Ra (as in Rama)

Ri (as in Rio de Janeiro)

Svati Nakshatra

Ru (as in rumor)

Re (as in regulate)

Ra (as in Rama)

Ta (as in Tahiti)

Vishakha Nakshatra

Ti (as in East Timor

Tu (as in tune)

Te (as in terrace)

To (as in total)

Anuradha Nakshatra

Na (as in Nagasaki)

Ni (as in Nicaragua)

Nu (as in numeral)

Ne (as in Nepal)

Jyeshta Nakshatra

No (as in noble)

Ya (as in Yama)

Yi (as in yield)

Yu (as in Yukon)

Mula Nakshatra

Ye (as in Yemen)

Yo (as in yo-yo)

Ba (as in ball)

Bi (as in Bini)

Purvashadha Nakshatra

Bu (as in Buddha)

Dha (as in dharma)

Bha (as in bhakti)

Dha (no English equiv.)

Uttarashadha Nakshatra

Be (as in beta)

Bo (as in Bohemian)

Ja (as in jar)

Ji (as in jiva)

Shravana Nakshatra

Ju (as in Jupiter)

Je (ay as in hay)

Jo (as in joke)

Gha (as in Ghana)

Dhanishta Nakshatra

Ga (as in garden)

Gi (ee as in keep)

Gu (as in guru)

Ge (as in Gestault)

Shatabhisha Nakshatra

Go (as in go)

Sa (as in Sahara)

Si (as in Sita)

Su (as in Surya)

Purvabhadhrapada Nakshatra

Se (as in Seoul)

So (as in sonar)

Da (as in Dante)

Di (as in dipa)

Uttarabhadhrapada Nakshatra

Du (as in duty)

Tha (as in Thar Desert)

JNa (as in Jnana)

Da (as in Tahiti)

Revati Nakshatra

De (as in deva)

Do (as in donut)

Cha (as in chakra)

Chi (as in chief)

 

 

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[Maharishi 0]

Below here I present the sanskrit version of the Nakshatra Pada Sounds :

 

 

 

 

The main principle during meditation is thinking the mantra effortlessly :

"In this meditation, we do not concentrate, we do not try to think the mantra clearly. Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation, rather it is a faint idea. We don't try to make a rhythm of the mantra. We don't try to control thoughts. We do not wish that thoughts should not come. If a thought comes, we do not try to push it out. We don't feel sorry about it. When a thought comes, the mind is completely absorbed in the thought. And if at any time you seem to be forgetting the mantra, don't try to hold on. Whenever we forget the mantra, we come back to to it very quietly. It is a very simple and natural process.

"When we become aware that we are not thinking the mantra, then we quietly come back to the mantra. Very easily we think the mantra and if at any moment we feel that we are forgetting it, we should not try to persist in repeating it. Only very easily we start and take it as it comes and do not hold the mantra if it tends to slip away.

"The mantra may change in different ways. It can get faster or slower, louder or softer, clearer or fainter. Its pronunciation may change, lengthen or shorten or even may appear to be distorted or it may not appear to change at all. In every case, we take it as it comes, neither anticipating nor resisting change, just simple innocence."

"There is no need to try to stop thinking because thoughts are a part of meditation. Even if the mind is filled with other thoughts while the mantra is going on, there is no conflict. Our concern is with the mantra, and if other thoughts are there along with it, we do not mind them and we don't try to remove them. We are not concerned with them, we innocently favor the mantra."

"Noise is no barrier to meditation. Even in a noisy market, it is possible to be thinking thoughts and whenever we can think, we can meditate. So one can think the mantra comfortably even though aware of outside noises. We just innocently favor the mantra and do not try to resist noise in any way."

"Even with some discomfort we should be able to meditate, for anyone who can think can meditate, and even with some bodily discomfort, it's our experience that we do not lose the natural ability to have thoughts."

"One thing is very important, that we do not try to meditate. We do not try to keep the tempo of the mantra the same, nor do we try to change the tempo. And, we do not concentrate against thoughts we might have, or against noises we might hear. We do not resist thoughts, we do not resist noise, we do not resist the mantra changing or disappearing, we do not resist anything. We take it as it comes. It is a very simple, natural, innocent process. When we meditate at home, we start with half a minute sitting easily. That means, close the eyes about half a minute and then start the mantra easily. And when we want to end meditation then we stop thinking the mantra inside, but do not open the eyes for about 2 minutes. This is very important that we start with half a minute of silence and end with 2 minutes of silence."

Below here I offer you some questions which may aid you in thinking the mantra effortlessly :

1. " When we close our eyes, naturally we feel some quietness, some silence, yes ?"

2. "Did you feel some quietness, some silence ?"

3. "Did you have any thoughts in that silence ?"

4. "Did you notice how spontaneously, how effortlessly these thoughts come?"

5. " Did you notice that a thought comes naturally, effortlessly and spontaneously?"

6. " Did you notice that thoughts come without any effort?"

7. This is how we should think the mantra effortlessly. We close our eyes and sit easily. After about half a minute, we begin to think the mantra in that same effortless way as we think other thoughts.

 

 

There are only three possible outcomes during meditation :

1. Falling asleep

2. Getting a lot of thoughts

 

3. Slipping/Falling into the Gap between thoughts

 

 

Falling asleep means that you are still too tired.

 

Getting a lot of thoughts is a sign of stress release of the body-mind system

 

Slipping/Falling into the Gap between thoughts happens when 1. and 2. does not happen

 

It is not possible to directly experience this Gap.

You can only know that you have been there when you are already out of it.

Signs of approaching and entering the Gap are a very silent breathing and the absence of thoughts. It is also possible that you loses the sense of time while being in the Gap. After staying in the Gap for some seconds of minutes you will notice that you take a deep breath and get new thoughts. Then the process will repeat again.