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Chris

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Personally I don't feel like posting here anymore as my words seem to fall on deaf ears. That's okay, no personal offense taken, I'm only telling what I have learned from my maha-bhagavat great spiritual master Srila Prabhupada. I just feel a little sad about it is all, but I also know that Krsna will lead the sincere hearts to the right places, and I feel you are among them and I wish you well, Chris.

 

I remain from here-on-in as

Observer, Jayaradhe

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Originally posted by Chris:

what exactly is meant by giong to a saint and getting the holy name from him?

Chris if you read Bhagavad Gita, Krsna explains how it is essential to submissively approach a God realized soul or sadhu(saint) who is intimately familiar with the Truth and enquire from them. Because they have seen and experienced the Truth it is within their ability to pass it on to others who sincerely want it and are receptive to receive such revelation.

In Gaudiya Vaisnavism the Absolute Truth isn't some vague intangible, impersonal conception, but rather Truth is Krsna Himself.

So Krsna can make Himself known thru his beloved saints, and this transmission can take place at the time of initiation when one genuinly receives Hari Nam-the Holy prescence of God from a pure lover of Krsna.

It isn't imagination, it is a very real soul to soul affair, the most priceless gift one can ever be given. If in some meagre way we can appreciate this Divine Grace of Guru and Krsna you may then also be able to bestow this beautiful reality to others. I sincerely wish you well in finding such a saint on your Quest for in the heart of such saintly persons you will find everything.

 

Dear JRdd my ears are definately going deaf to a lot of things these days it seems, but I think I'm learning to listen more with the heart for those that speak that language, to compensate for the ears shutdown, it usually translates as care and compassion for others and you seem more than proficient in this diallect. As a matter of fact I've caught much of it from your expression.

ys MKd

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In Gaudiya Vaisnavism the Absolute Truth isn't some vague intangible, impersonal conception, but rather Truth is Krsna Himself (Dasanudas)

 

Ramakrishna wasn’t a Gaudiya-vaisnava. He wasn’t a sakta too, he did not belong to any sect. He was only a real mukta who has realized this Absolute Truth as his mother Kali, not as Krsna.

 

This Absolute Truth is not a conception. It is the Ultimate Reality, a non-dual substance, made of sat-cid-ananda (eternity, conscience and bliss) and It may be realized by different seers in different aspects. Some seers describe It as the formless and impersonal Brahman and others as a personal substance such as Krsna, Rama, etc. Actually this substance has form and has no form, It is personal and non-personal, as It is an Absolute and non-dual Being.

 

Some says that He may be realized by His Name, others say that He may be realized by yoga, and there are countless defenders of countless processes of realization. But it is Hari Himself who gives the final decision. He will give His realization to those who He elects, as His free will is absolute, and no one else’s. No matter which method of realization one may opt to follow. Only surrender to Him and be confident. Always to remember Him and never to forget Him are the only true precepts. One will be delivered by His grace!!!

 

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Originally posted by Chris:

that is a valid point 20 million is a huge number.

 

Sorry I got that wrong Posted Image.

I forgot to times it by 9

(ie Ramakrishna's Birthday and 4 days either side).

I am redoing the whole CALCULATION

using my wife's calculator

Now its c. 150 million !

This is notional of course

like ASTROLOGY.

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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Satyaraja: This Absolute Truth is not a conception. It is the Ultimate Reality, a non-dual substance, made of sat-cid-ananda (eternity, conscience and bliss) and It may be realized by different seers in different aspects.

 

Ramakrishna: The great torrent cuts its own bed in the slope in accord with races and ages and souls. It is still the same water. Go, flow into that ocean. *

 

* The Gospel of Ramakrishna by "M" page 181

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-12-2001).]

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Originally posted by dasanudas:

It isn't imagination, it is a very real soul to soul affair, the most priceless gift one can ever be given.

Imagination is the movement of the soul

and Intuition is Her guide.

 

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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Dear dasanudas, well the disease is mutual, thanks! I will for now read with relish what you have to say here for I have been just hanging in here waiting for someoone like you to come in and speak the straight sauce or I mean the pure nectar.

 

Dear Chris, I am sorry for being impatient, but my impatience was not with you. I stand aside for now and will focus on my Peace Painting today. If you or anyone else has any inputs I would like to hear. So far we have lots of water, for rebirth and regeneration and washing out the dirty stuff, collagey headlines, people from all ethnics gathered together with arms raised singing God's glories, hearts and flowers, a dove, and...? Mr das is an artist, of the heart and hands, maybe you have an idea to add.

 

Pray for world peace and for people to take this wake up call for all it's worth.

 

love, Jayaradhe

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Chris,

 

My advice is to go with your Colorado friend who gave you the Bhagavad-Gita to the Colorado Temple. Get a feel for the kirtans, the deities, the devotee community. I think this will give you a nice outlook on the philosophy. Best of luck. Take care.

 

Gauracandra

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and [NAVANEETACHORA]

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

MEANING 9:

Those who are Incomparable

cannot be explained.

 

Straightforward relevance for Chris -

CHRISSUS DIDACTICUS 9:

It is not possible to arrive

at a comparison to truthfully

explain any superiority between

the Grace of Kali and the Grace of Hari.

 

Your experience of tears and bliss,

if truthfully recorded,

appear to be the blessing of Grace.

However based on the questions

that appear to have arisen from your experience, it is likely this was,

rather, a symptom of some neurotic

catharsis noting that that,

in itself, does not exclude the movement

of Grace.

 

Grace is not a material product

that one may seek by what means it may be

produced or which is the most efficient

method of production.

(However, one may seek what is the best

condition to cultivate so that when Grace does come, one is open enough to recieve with honour (gracefully?)

 

Reception of Grace,

a) resolves all questions, and/or

b) raises unanswerable questions.

Immersed in Grace both "a" and "b" enscapsulatethe greatest Intuition.

 

neurotic talasiga@hotmail.com

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-17-2001).]

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

MEANING 10:

Light is so entranced by the Divine

It will never lose its obsession

 

CHRISSUS DIDACTICUS 10:

There is no light outside Divinity

 

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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Originally posted by amanpeter:

Talasiga is now exchanging poetic complexities with the only one capable of fully appreciating on his elevated level--himself!

And guess who

is reading same ?

 

Is the web so complex

or the fly so simple ?

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-17-2001).]

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

 

MEANING 11/108:

 

Illumination does not find

a way out of the Divine

 

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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Originally posted by talasiga:

And guess who

is reading same ?

 

Is the web so complex

or the fly so simple ?

 

Posted Image

 

 

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 09-17-2001).]

Believe it or not, I care for all the regulars on this forum. Therefore, everything posted is read. As I've already said, though, most of what you write is probably not appreciated fully by me. What to do? RR

 

 

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DEAR CHRIS and SATYARAJA DASA:

 

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

In Gaudiya Vaisnavism the Absolute Truth isn't some vague intangible, impersonal conception, but rather Truth is Krsna Himself (Dasanudas)

 

Ramakrishna wasn’t a Gaudiya-vaisnava. He wasn’t a sakta too, he did not belong to any sect. He was only a real mukta who has realized this Absolute Truth as his mother Kali, not as Krsna.

 

This Absolute Truth is not a conception. It is the Ultimate Reality, a non-dual substance, made of sat-cid-ananda (eternity, conscience and bliss) and It may be realized by different seers in different aspects. Some seers describe It as the formless and impersonal Brahman and others as a personal substance such as Krsna, Rama, etc. Actually this substance has form and has no form, It is personal and non-personal, as It is an Absolute and non-dual Being.

 

Some says that He may be realized by His Name, others say that He may be realized by yoga, and there are countless defenders of countless processes of realization. But it is Hari Himself who gives the final decision. He will give His realization to those who He elects, as His free will is absolute, and no one else’s. No matter which method of realization one may opt to follow. Only surrender to Him and be confident. Always to remember Him and never to forget Him are the only true precepts. One will be delivered by His grace!!!

Satyaraja Das has made some nice points. It is true that the Supreme Lord manifests both in personal and impersonal forms. But in BG Lord Krishna himself says that of all forms of yoga Bhakti yoga or devotional surrender is the best. Also this is the path with few pitfalls.

 

I would like to give an anology in this context. A child surrenders to his mother instinctively. She takes care of all his needs and protects him. This allows the child to be care-free. This also ensures that the child progresses through his childhood safely under the sure protection of his mother.

 

On the other hand, the child may experiment on his own and try to be independent of his mother. But the chances are that most often he will fail. This is because, while the child is ignorant of material knowledge, the mother possesses the same.

 

Likewise, we jivas (humans) are like an ignorant child and Krishna the all-knowledgeable parent. While speculation may or may not take us to the destination, surrender certainly will.

 

In BG Lord Krishna says that once we surrender to him he gives us everything we need to go back to him. He gives us intelligence, knowledge, wealth (or takes it away if he feels that would help our devotional service) etc.. and delivers us.

 

So, where is the need to speculate? Is it not evident that surrender or bhakti yoga is the easiest way to realize the Supreme Truth?

 

 

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Originally posted by karthik_v:

So, where is the need to speculate? Is it not evident that surrender or bhakti yoga is the easiest way to realize the Supreme Truth?

 

So, where is the need for such questions ?

 

Huh ?

 

 

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

<u>MEANING 12</u>

 

With a result so sure

Where's the gamble with light ?

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

 

MEANING 13:

 

As "light is lost in them",

any Vision is not likely to show

where One ends and One begins,

whether One is higher or lower

or equal.

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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From The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

 

 

It was dusk. The evening service began in the temples. Sri Ramakrishna was chanting the names of the gods and goddesses. He was seated on the small couch, with folded hands, and became absorbed in contemplation of the Divine Mother. The world outside was flooded with moonlight, and the devotees inside the Master's room sat in silence and looked at his serene face.

 

GOVINDA: "Revered sir, why does the Divine Mother have a black complexion?" (A reference to the image of Kali).

 

MASTER: "You see Her as black because you are far away from Her. Go near and you will find Her devoid of all color. The water of a lake appears black from a distance. Go near and take the water in your hand, and you will see that it has no color at all. Similarly, the sky looks blue from a distance. But look at the atmosphere near you; it has no color. The nearer you come to God, the more you will realize that He has neither name nor form. If you move away from the Divine Mother, you will find Her blue, like the grass-flower. Is Syama male or female? A man once saw the image of the Divine Mother wearing a sacred thread. (The images of male deities only are invested with the sacred thread). He said to the worshipper: 'What? You have put the sacred thread on the Mother's neck!' The worshipper said: 'Brother, I see that you have truly known the Mother. But I have not yet been able to find out whether She is male or female; that is why I have put the sacred thread on Her image.'

 

"That which is Syama is also Brahman. That which has form, again, is without form. That which has attributes, again, has no attributes. Brahman is Sakti; Sakti is Brahman. They are not two. These are only two aspects, male and female, of the same Reality, Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute."

 

GOVINDA: "What is the meaning of 'yogamaya'?"

 

MASTER: "It signifies the yoga, or union, of Purusha (the male aspect of Reality; the Soul, or Absolute) and Prakriti (the female aspect of Reality; Primordial Nature, or Power). Whatever you perceive in the universe is the outcome of this union. Take the image of Siva and Kali. Kali stands on the bosom of Siva; Siva lies under Her feet like a corpse;. Kali looks at Siva. All this denotes the union of Purusha and Prakriti. Purusha is inactive; therefore Siva lies on the ground like a corpse. Prakriti performs all Her activities in conjunction with Purusha. Thus She creates, preserves and destroys. That is also the meaning of the conjoined images of Radha and Krishna. On account of that union, again, the images are slightly inclined toward each other.

 

 

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Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

 

 

MEANING 14:

 

In such Darkness

What could we ever find ?

And, indeed, whatever may be found,

Will it be seen ?

 

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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<u>"Godhead is Light, Nescience is Darkness"</u>

 

Originally posted by talasiga:

KALI and KRISHNA

 

Both are so black

Light is lost in them .....

 

 

MEANING 15:

Light arises in relationship with God

Not in merging

 

{where

relationship = knowing (Self and Other)

merging = cessation of self (no knower and known) }

 

.

.

.

 

 

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

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