Prabhupada - what were his comments about other hindu sects?

[kshatriya_108 0]

For example, the Swaminarayan Religion, did he know of its existence, did he say anything about it?

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna.

 

Srila Prabhupada said that due to so many sects who deviate from the Vedic scriptures, the Vedic culture has declined.

 

He said anyone who deviates from the Vedic scriptures should be rejected. Thus the swaminarayan sect should be rejected as they deviate from the Vedic scriptures. They believe swaminarayan is the supreme and follow the Vachanumrut, which is not a Vedic scripture.

 

 

[Guest guest]

A full reply to this could even fill a book, and i get the feeling after reading many of the posts on this site that it wouldnt be correctly understood for the following reason:

 

…Once a young Boy came to Bruce Lee, he wanted to learn the martial arts. Before Bruce Lee agreed to teach him, he began to retel an incident involving his sifu, who was a master of zen...

 

A professor came to his sifu, wishing to learn about zen. Both of them sat down for tea, and the professor began to tell Bruce Lees sifu everything he knew about zen. He went on, and on, and on, telling the sifu (from whom he'd come to learn) everything he knew on the topic.

 

The sifu then offerd the professor some tea. He obliged. The sifu began to pour as the professor watched on. He saw it begin to fill to the brim and felt to say something but didnt. The master continued pouring until the cup began to overflow. The professor became agitated at why the sifu continued until he could contain himself no longer. “Master, the cup is full! No more will go in!” “Likewise”, the master said, “you are so full of your own thoughts and ego, that nothing I tell you will go in!”.

 

Bruce Lee asked the boy if he understood?

 

The boy replied, “Yes you want me to ‘empty’ myself of what I know”.

 

..

 

So what is the moral? Why am I saying this? Not to offend, but to merely point out that some of the answers to the questions you are asking will not be understood,

 

1) Because there are strong preconceptions, and misunderstandings. – and as such even truth cannot be accepted – just like good tea will not fit in the cup when there is simply no space!

 

Also many things may be refuted unfortunately and ironically due to a good thing…..that is, because you are faithful to your beliefs, which is admirable.

 

Infact this is something Bhagwan Swaminarayan has talked in depth on. Also consider the example of Tulsidas, a bhakta of Ramchandra Bhagwan. Has he not mentioned in one of his poems that his head would only drop where he sees the Bow? (forgive my non exact reference) i.e. his bhakti is to Ramchandraji but this does not mean he disrespects other deities. Can we not follow his example?

 

Consider the example of a faithful wife or husband, do they leave their respective wives or husbands on seeing the greatness of other men and women? No, because this is the characteristic of faith, and as you are faithful bhaktas of Krishna Bhagwan, I would not expect you to drop His worship. So I will not try to convince you or talk on any matters of supremacy – they are futile and irrelavent as everyone is on their own path to moksha and and different stages. Again consider a faithful wife or husband, even if their partners have some deficiency, will they leave their partners for a more ‘perfect’ choice? No, because of faithfulness. In the same way in Sanatan Dharma, the principle of fidelty to ones ishtadev is long lasting so why should we be ignorant of this principle and act like children in a playground trying to prove that ‘mine is best!’.

 

Now on the second matter. That the Swaminarayan Sampraday is not Vedic nor is the Vachanamrut a vedic scripture. This my friend is an gross unfortunate misunderstanding, and is something which I hope you come to realise is false. Please bear in mind that I mean no offence to you or your beliefs in anything I say. However unlike talks of supremacy I believe this is a matter which can be discussed without offence and futility.

 

I will not divulge the full answer at this time as to do so thoroughly would require more time than I have at the moment.

 

But consider this. In Sanatan Dharma we believe that true scriptural knowledge can only be understood from a satpurush. Hence do you not feel that some of these comments and feelings, which are so strongly backed up by quotes are infact unfair? Because we have not understood matters from all angles and are taking what we read, i.e Swaminarayan Scriptures, literaly. When has literalism ruled in Sanatan Dharma? One of the greatest fortunes Sanatan Dharma possesses is that of the sadhu who is pure and can impart the TRUE scriptural knowledge to devotees without perversion.

 

Also how can you assume that Srila Prabhupada meant these things towards the Swaminarayan Sampraday? Infact would you not, as his student, be careful not to misuse his words? Of course it is true what he says that due to so many non vedic sects, vedic culture declines – but then you attribute this quality to the Swaminarayan Sampraday? – and try to say that this is what he wouldve believed? Please understand my concern for you as it would be a great shame for you to realise the incorrectness in this comment and then feel bad that you’d assumed Srila Prabhupada wouldve felt this way. Because truly I do not believe you have researched in depth the Swaminarayan Sampraday.

 

For example:

 

Let me briefly bring to your attention the activities of the B.A.P.S Swaminarayan Sanstha – are you aware of its activites? Are you aware of the constant activities in place to keep Vedic culture alive? Are you aware of the recent Akshardham Complex built in New Dheli (www.Akshardham.com) which has become an instant beacon of Vedic values? Are you aware of what this monument and complex represents? Are you aware of the number of sadhus of other sects who visited the celebrations for the opening of this complex who lauded the magnificent contribution of H.D.H Pramukh Swami Maharaj for the survival of vedic culture? ..Including a member from ISKON?

 

- The reason why I ask these questions is that I find it very hard to believe that when so many, saints, pandits, learned people, can see this? Why is it so hard for us to?

 

I don’t feel bitter at your claims. I simply feel that it’s a shame. A misunderstanding. This is not the depth to the proof, but just a small point.

 

Also, it is worth noting that this matter of the Swaminarayan Sampraday being vedic was adressed by a assembly of sadhus and pandits in India many years ago. Many people who have studied the matter in great depth, and after due deliberation it was agreed that the Swaminarayan Sampraday is indeed vedic.

 

The proof is there if you are willing to search for it. However I worry that for the same reason as above, because for so many of us ‘our cup is full’, and possibly for others because we have been offended by some other conversation relating to sumpremacy or other such talks – we cannot see things clearly as we are blinded by our pride.

 

Lets not forget that at the end of the day – We are all followers of Sanatan Dharma, and many of the negative attitudes and spiteful comments on this website do not correlate to this!

 

I pray that we can call understand things as they truly are, and that someday whoever doubts will realise that infact the Swaminarayan Sampraday in the form of B.A.P.S is an ally in spreading vedic cultre all over the world through its vast network of mandirs and centres. Much like ISKON and other faiths.

 

I apologise again if anything I have said has caused offence, this was not my intention.

 

 

Shri Swaminrayan Bhagwan ni jay.

Shri Pramukh Swami Maharaj ni jay.

[Guest guest]

"B.A.P.S Swaminarayan Sanstha – are you aware of its activites? Are you aware of the constant activities in place to keep Vedic culture alive? Are you aware of the recent Akshardham Complex built in New Dheli (www.Akshardham.com) which has become an instant beacon of Vedic values"

 

The swaminarayan sect is not part of sanatan dharma or Vedic religion as they don't follow the Vedic scriptures.

 

They believe swaminarayan is the supreme and not Lord Krishna as stated in Vedic scriptures. Thus they are a bogus sect and should be rejected.

 

Ravana and Kamsa had built many beautiful buildings and had many followers, were they were demons.

[Guest guest]

BAPS follows the Vachanamrut and not the Vedic scriptures. They belive that Swaminarayan in the supreme and not Lord Krishna.

 

Here is what the Vedic scriptures state:

 

Lord Brahma who is the first created living being states in Brahma Samhita:

 

“Krishna who is known as Govinda is the supreme godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and he is the prime cause of all causes.” (Brahma Samhita 5.1)

 

After Describing various incarnations of the Lord such as Rama, Balrama, Vamana, Nrsimha, and Vishnu, Sukadeva Goswami states:

 

 

 

“All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions of portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead” (Srimad Bhagavatam 1.3.28)

 

 

 

Lord Shiva in the Gita Mahatmya states:

 

 

 

“Only one God – Krishna, the son of Devaki (verse 7)

 

 

 

In the Padma Purana it is stated:

 

 

 

“By scrutinizingly reviewing all the revealed scriptures and judging them again and again, it is now concluded that Lord Narayana is the supreme absolute truth, and thus he alone should be worshipped”

 

 

 

In the Skanda Purana it states:

 

 

 

“In the material world, which is full of darkness and dangers, combined with birth and death and full of different anxieties, the only way to get out of the great entanglement is to accept loving transcendental devotional service to Lord Vasudeva.”

 

 

 

The position of Krishna as God is confirmed by great personalities like Narada, Asita, Devela, Parasara, Brahma, and Shiva.

 

 

[Guest guest]

you quoted what that guy sed...

 

"B.A.P.S Swaminarayan Sanstha – are you aware of its activites? Are you aware of the constant activities in place to keep Vedic culture alive? Are you aware of the recent Akshardham Complex built in New Dheli (www.Akshardham.com) which has become an instant beacon of Vedic values"

 

and then you replied..

 

"Ravana and Kamsa had built many beautiful buildings and had many followers, were they were demons."

 

Im afraid your response doesnt relate to the quote- because surely there is a VAST difference in the purpose between Mandirs and the Akshardham Complex, and buildings of Ravana and Kansa?

 

By your comments are you implying that mandirs are equal to a deamons beatiful buildings? - can these buildings inspire people to lead good moral lives devoted to God? - if they did then where were Ravan and Kansa while it was all happening? did these deamons teach people to live lifes devoted to God free from all vices and evils?

 

I can understand valid doubts and questions, but unfounded comments and just making up your own mind, is an injustice and is insulting.

 

Also comments like - "The swaminarayan sect is not part of sanatan dharma or Vedic religion as they don't follow the Vedic scriptures" are unfounded.

 

He attempted to clarify that yet you just ignore it and repeat unfounded statements like parrots? - whats the point?

Where does this animosity come from?

[Guest guest]

"Also comments like - "The swaminarayan sect is not part of sanatan dharma or Vedic religion as they don't follow the Vedic scriptures" are unfounded."

 

Unfounded.

 

Well, do you worship Lord Krishna as the supreme or Swaminarayan?

 

Do you offer food to Lord Krishna or Swaminarayan?

 

Let me very accurately answer these questions for you.

 

You worship Swaminaryan as the supreme.

You offer food to Swaminaryan and not to Lord Krishna before eating as parsadam.

 

Also, Lord Krishna's abode is known as Goluka Vrindavan, where as Swaminarayan's abode is Akshardham.

 

These basic differences make a BIG difference.

 

[Guest guest]

"These basic differences make a BIG difference."

 

- maybe not?

 

You say we believe Swaminarayan as the sumpreme - well as i mentioned in my first post this is futile - if you are a faithful Bhakta of Krishna Bhagwan, for me to comment on this would only aggrevate you, again using the analogy of a child - if you were in a playground and another kid said his dad was bigger better and clever than yours - would you like it? - nope! so lets leave that aside because think of it this way - If senior and respected saints from the world, from so many different sects can all sit on one stage, put aside these preferences and use the commonalities of their faith to respect and aid one another - then are we bigger than them that we should act any differently?

 

I stumbled upon an old thread on this site where this debate was going on.. and on.. and on.. and i was too tired to read to the end because it was the same thing over and over agen. - this topic isnt necessary - although i can understand where the confusion comes from i wont attempt to comment at this time on that.

 

"You offer food to Swaminaryan and not to Lord Krishna before eating as parsadam."

 

Well actualy in the mandirs prasad is offered to all the deities - every day, in most places atleast 3times a day. - so is the arti performed, so are the murtis decorated.. etc etc..

 

Now i dont wish for this to turn into another futile debate on who is sumpreme, again, as i mentioned before - i was trying to comment on the point that the Sampraday is vedic.

 

I mentioned how a council of sadhus and pandits had many years ago declared the Swaminarayan Sampraday is vedic. What are your thoughts on this? try not to be blindly critical.

 

Also, consider this - put aside the issue of supremacy - look at everything else the Swaminaryan Sampraday stands for, and in particular B.A.P.S.

 

When looking at the way of live people in this organisation lead - how can one say its not vedic? When looking at the things the mandirs, sadhus and devotees are actively promoting - where does the notion that this is a non-Vedic sampraday come from. (apart from the issue of who each one worships).

I believe that you will find so many similarities in the breadth of beliefs - Swaminarayan Bhagwan used the authority of the Vedas, Upanishads, Shrimad Bhagwat, Bhagwat Gita etc.

 

Then on the issue of who we worship - Now again setting aside the issue of supremacy - the Sanatan Dharmic principle of offering devotion to ones 'ishtadev', is followed by all in the world - but can a Swaminarayan bhakta not offer his greatest devotion to his 'chiocest-deity'? - while all other deities are duly respected.

 

The words of the scriptures are difficult to understand - even tho they may seem as clear as black and white to us.

 

..."Also, Lord Krishna's abode is known as Goluka Vrindavan, where as Swaminarayan's abode is Akshardham."...

 

Well if this is the case then the Bhaktas of Krishna Bhagwan will go to Golok and the Swaminarayan Bhaktas to Akshardham - but where does the need arise to debate whos best?

 

-- On his comment of the unfounded nature of the "Swaminarayan isnt Vedic" comment, i agree with this, everytime somebody attempts to answer this they go back to supremacy - so are you telling me if somebody doesnt accept Krishna Bhagwan as their ishtadev they arent vedic? - remembering that Krishna Bhagwan was one of many avatars - so why can another person not make which ever avatar or form of God they've attained, their own 'isthadev'.

 

Can i ask a question? - of course this is a forum and people will voice their opinions, but at the end of the day - Hare-Krishna followers, Swamiarayan follwers and all other followers of Sanatan Dharma have many things in common - and instead of bickering like children (as was happening on that other thread) why not let a Swamianrayan Bhakta worship his isthadev and a Krishna bhakta worship his isthadev - and just get along and live happily ever after /images/graemlins/smile.gif lifes too short!

[Guest Guest]

Read Shikshapatri of Lord Swaminarayan, it mentions Shri Krishna more than once in high respect. Below link will help you all to understand Lord Krishna and Lord Swaminarayan with reference to Shikshapatri. I am fan of both institutions. Peace :-)

 

http://www.swaminarayangadi.com/publications/eBooks/Shikshapatri-Sanskrit-English/index.php#/12/

 

P.S.: In Vachnamrut Lord Swaminarayan has confirmed what ISCKON says, Lord Krishan is the supreme being. :-)