Herbal Pharmacology

May 1, 2010

I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist spiritual

training and development is really on a different plane than learning to

practice medicine and gain experience.

On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

> Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long will

> it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's be

> real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline behind

> them, and we'd never know it.

>

> -

> <pine.village.tcm

> <Chinese Medicine >

> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a claim

> > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a short

> > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

> > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training as

> > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

> >

> > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves " mastery " ?

> >

> > -Everett

> >

> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >

> > ---

> >

> > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >

> > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

> > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

> >

> > and adjust

> > accordingly.

> >

> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> > requires prior permission from the author.

> >

> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> > necessary.

May 1, 2010

I think the patients make the ultimate judgments. Based upon whether or not

they come back.

-

" Donald Snow " <don83407

Friday, April 30, 2010 2:59 PM

RE: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> What qualifies someone to be able to judge? We are always seeking

> certifications and so are the Chinese. But I note that nobody certifies

> the great Chen and Yang Taiji masters. Who certifies the Master?

>

> What " certifies " the Master are the results of his skill as compared to

> " lesser ones. "

>

> So. Who judges the innovations in our medicine? No disrespect intended.

> But should someone with a Master's degree judge those of a Doctorate? Or

> should it be the other way around? Not that degrees necessarily mean

> anything, but " something " must mean something.

>

> Just my two cents,

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Donald J. Snow, Jr., D.A.O.M., MPH, L.Ac.

>

> Chinese Medicine

> learntcm

> Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:50:00 -0700

> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> Hi Genevieve

> " But i think that is an ethical issue somewhat separate from that

> of the definition of . "

>

> Stephen

> you seem to echo the sentiment voiced by Martha

> I do wonder what the effect is on the perception and development

> of the Chinese medicine community when so many things are

> misrepresented as Chinese medicine or " based on " Chinese

> medicine.

>

> Many " modernists " cry out for the right to innovate. I wonder how

> many realize that this desire to change things is a cultural

> artifact.

>

> I also think that when masters innovate (Li Gao or Ye Tian Shi)

> we should take notice (even if we chose to practice in a

> different style). A big problem is that most of those who want to

> " innovate " lack the fundamental knowledge and skills (much less

> mastery!) to have standing to innovate on that which they/we know

> so little of. ~ my opinion

>

> I would also say that we need to be careful in the use of words

> such as " ethical " as it is sure to ruffle feathers. I absolutely

> agree that this type of misrepresentation does a huge disservice

> to our profession and to the public at large.

>

> Stephen Woodley LAc

>

> --

> http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

>

May 1, 2010

Or a strong foundation of success.

Are we trying to say that no one should innovate, because no one is worthy

enough to do so? Maybe we need another 12 semester Masters degree.

-

" Joe Messey " <joe.messey

Friday, April 30, 2010 3:51 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> Z'ev said:

> Innovation has always been based on a strong foundation of knowledge in

> any

> medical tradition.

>

> Joe sez:

> very nicely put

>

May 1, 2010

Mercurius,

if you were Hua Tuo in another life, you'd probably already have been a

surgeon,

not an electro-herbalist.

Humility is a sign of mastery.

Having students who are masters is a sign of true mastery.

Mastering oneself, not just one's art, is a sign of mastery.

If your art can help you master yourself, then you can be called a true

master of both.

K

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

>

> I wouldn't say that at all. Maybe I was Hua Tuo in my previous existence.

> Might I have an edge in TCM school going up against a bunch of illiterate

> hippies? I would say yes.

>

> -

> " " <zrosenbe <zrosenbe%40san.rr.com>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:27 PM

> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> >I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist spiritual

>

> >training and development is really on a different plane than learning to

> >practice medicine and gain experience.

> >

> > On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

> >

> >> Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long

> >> will

> >> it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's

> be

> >> real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline

> behind

> >> them, and we'd never know it.

> >>

> >> -

> >> <pine.village.tcm <pine.village.tcm%40gmail.com>>

> >> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> >> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

> >> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> >>

> >> > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a

> >> > claim

> >> > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a short

> >> > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

> >> > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training as

> >> > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

> >> >

> >> > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves " mastery " ?

> >> >

> >> > -Everett

> >> >

> >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >> >

> >> > ---

> >> >

> >> > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >> >

> >> > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese

> medicine

> >> > and acupuncture, click,

> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

> >> >

> >> > and

> >> > adjust

> >> > accordingly.

> >> >

> >> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

> >> > group

> >> > requires prior permission from the author.

> >> >

> >> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

> >> > absolutely

> >> > necessary.

May 1, 2010

Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long will

it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's be

real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline behind

them, and we'd never know it.

-

<pine.village.tcm

Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a claim

> of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a short

> time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

> before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training as

> well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

>

> And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves " mastery " ?

>

> -Everett

>

> Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>

> ---

>

> Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>

> Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

> and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

>

> and adjust

> accordingly.

>

> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group

> requires prior permission from the author.

>

> Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

> necessary.

May 1, 2010

Even if we're using a Scenar?

-

" " <zrosenbe

Friday, April 30, 2010 4:22 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> Innovation potentially happens with every treatment. Every clinical

> encounter with every patient is unique, and we bring the medical tradition

> alive in this interaction.

>

> On Apr 30, 2010, at 6:00 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

>

>> Or a strong foundation of success.

>> Are we trying to say that no one should innovate, because no one is

>> worthy

>> enough to do so? Maybe we need another 12 semester Masters degree.

>

> Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

> Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

> San Diego, Ca. 92122

May 1, 2010

I wouldn't say that at all. Maybe I was Hua Tuo in my previous existence.

Might I have an edge in TCM school going up against a bunch of illiterate

hippies? I would say yes.

-

" " <zrosenbe

Friday, April 30, 2010 5:27 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist spiritual

>training and development is really on a different plane than learning to

>practice medicine and gain experience.

>

> On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

>

>> Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long

>> will

>> it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's be

>> real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline behind

>> them, and we'd never know it.

>>

>> -

>> <pine.village.tcm

>> <Chinese Medicine >

>> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

>> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>>

>> > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a

>> > claim

>> > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a short

>> > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

>> > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training as

>> > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

>> >

>> > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves " mastery " ?

>> >

>> > -Everett

>> >

>> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>> >

>> > ---

>> >

>> > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

>> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>> >

>> > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

>> > and acupuncture, click,

>> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

>> >

>> > and

>> > adjust

>> > accordingly.

>> >

>> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

>> > group

>> > requires prior permission from the author.

>> >

>> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

>> > absolutely

>> > necessary.

May 1, 2010

Great chess and Go players can be the best in the world before they reach

20..

same thing goes for some of the great mathematicians, who were born with

this gift.

but it seems for medicine and writing great novels,

it takes some living with hard-won experience and struggle.

You can't program a machine / robot to be a great doctor or great

humanitarian.

For buddhism, all of the masters in history went through at least 20 years

of chopping wood,

cooking in the kitchen (sixth patriarch of zen) or sitting with themselves

and the dharma.

The current 13th Dalai Lama had personal tutors and years of constant dharma

battles with fellow monks.

He had the seed of past Dalai Lamas inside of him, but it took a lot of work

to bring their collective knowledge to fruition.

The whole lineage and the whole nation is behind him.

K

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 5:27 PM, <zrosenbe wrote:

> I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist spiritual

> training and development is really on a different plane than learning to

> practice medicine and gain experience.

>

> On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

>

> > Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long

> will

> > it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's be

> > real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline behind

> > them, and we'd never know it.

> >

> > -

> > <pine.village.tcm

> > <Chinese Medicine >

> > Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

> > Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> >

> > > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a

> claim

> > > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a short

> > > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

> > > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training as

> > > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

> > >

> > > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves " mastery " ?

> > >

> > > -Everett

> > >

> > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> > >

> > > ---

> > >

> > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times

> > > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> > >

> > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine

> > > and acupuncture, click,

> http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

> > >

> > > and

> adjust

> > > accordingly.

> > >

> > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

> group

> > > requires prior permission from the author.

> > >

> > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

> absolutely

> > > necessary.

May 1, 2010

In various fields of human endevour be it art , music, architecture or medicine

for example, we see these areas constantly changing whilst holding to their core

in some fashion. It is the nature of qi that it moves and finds expression and

does not stand still. I see Don in the same light. He has put serious study into

chinese medicine and this gives him the right in my opinion to take it where it

leads him, in this case scenar,or whatever it's called. It isn't like he did a

few weekend courses in acupuncture and then decided to spring it on us. We need

to be birthed in the classics, agreed, but then why put limits on where study of

the classics might propel us to? If we remain openminded perhaps we might learn

something here.

Chinese Medicine

learntcm

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 14:50:00 -0700

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

Hi Genevieve

" But i think that is an ethical issue somewhat separate from that

of the definition of . "

Stephen

you seem to echo the sentiment voiced by Martha

I do wonder what the effect is on the perception and development

of the Chinese medicine community when so many things are

misrepresented as Chinese medicine or " based on " Chinese

medicine.

Many " modernists " cry out for the right to innovate. I wonder how

many realize that this desire to change things is a cultural

artifact.

I also think that when masters innovate (Li Gao or Ye Tian Shi)

we should take notice (even if we chose to practice in a

different style). A big problem is that most of those who want to

" innovate " lack the fundamental knowledge and skills (much less

mastery!) to have standing to innovate on that which they/we know

so little of. ~ my opinion

I would also say that we need to be careful in the use of words

such as " ethical " as it is sure to ruffle feathers. I absolutely

agree that this type of misrepresentation does a huge disservice

to our profession and to the public at large.

Stephen Woodley LAc

--

http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service

May 1, 2010

Mercurius,

did you not write: " Maybe I was Hua Tuo in my previous existence.

Might I have an edge in TCM school going up against a bunch of illiterate

hippies? I would say yes. "

Didn't you write that you've had " amazing success with electro-herbalism " ?

Maybe you were Hua Tuo. Maybe I was Cao Cao.

K

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

magisterium_magnum wrote:

>

> Not sure what you're talking about. This isn't about me.

>

> -

> " " <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> To:

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> >

> Friday, April 30, 2010 7:16 PM

> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> > Mercurius,

> > if you were Hua Tuo in another life, you'd probably already have been a

> > surgeon,

> > not an electro-herbalist.

> >

> > Humility is a sign of mastery.

> > Having students who are masters is a sign of true mastery.

> >

> > Mastering oneself, not just one's art, is a sign of mastery.

> > If your art can help you master yourself, then you can be called a true

> > master of both.

> >

> > K

> >

> > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

> > magisterium_magnum <magisterium_magnum%40comcast.net>>

> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> I wouldn't say that at all. Maybe I was Hua Tuo in my previous

> existence.

> >> Might I have an edge in TCM school going up against a bunch of

> illiterate

> >> hippies? I would say yes.

> >>

> >> -

> >> " " <zrosenbe

<zrosenbe%40san.rr.com><zrosenbe%

> 40san.rr.com>>

> >> To:

> >>

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> >> >

> >> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:27 PM

> >> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> >>

> >> >I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist

> >> >spiritual

> >>

> >> >training and development is really on a different plane than learning

> to

> >> >practice medicine and gain experience.

> >> >

> >> > On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

> >> >

> >> >> Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how

> long

> >> >> will

> >> >> it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings?

> Let's

> >> be

> >> >> real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline

> >> behind

> >> >> them, and we'd never know it.

> >> >>

> >> >> -

> >> >> <pine.village.tcm

<pine.village.tcm%40gmail.com><pine.village.tcm%

> 40gmail.com>>

> >> >> To:

> >> >>

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

> <Chinese Medicine%40>

> >> >

> >> >> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

> >> >> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> >> >>

> >> >> > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find

> a

> >> >> > claim

> >> >> > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a

> >> >> > short

> >> >> > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his

> father

> >> >> > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training

>

> >> >> > as

> >> >> > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves

> >> >> > " mastery " ?

> >> >> >

> >> >> > -Everett

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

> >> >> >

> >> >> > ---

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at

> >> >> > Times

> >> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese

> >> medicine

> >> >> > and acupuncture, click,

> >> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

> >> >> >

> >> >> > and

> >> >> > adjust

> >> >> > accordingly.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside

> the

> >> >> > group

> >> >> > requires prior permission from the author.

> >> >> >

> >> >> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

> >> >> > absolutely

> >> >> > necessary.

May 1, 2010

Joe, you are so right, humility is very important!

" He does not make a show of himself, hence he shines;

Does not justify himself, hence he becomes known;

Does not boast of his ability, hence he gets his credit;

Does not brandish his success, hence he endures; ... "

and Don said: What qualifies someone to be able to judge? We are always seeking

certifications and so are the Chinese. But I note that nobody certifies the

great Chen and Yang Taiji masters.

Don, it's a good observation, and i think the last part of Lao Tzu's quote

applies:

" ... Does not compete with anyone,

Hence no one can compete with him. "

Study study study

Practice practice practice

Â

________________________________

Joe Messey <joe.messey

Chinese Medicine

Fri, April 30, 2010 3:49:36 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

Â

Joe sez:

Interesting examples. Having studied Taiji over 20 years I can say:

It's not very difficult to determine who is a master. Watch them move and

then push hands. Mastery will be clear in a matter of seconds (I am NO

master, but you don't have to be one to recognize mastery in another)

Lastly, mastery of Taiji, music or this medicine cannot possibly be obtained

in only 6 or 7 years. As Westerner's we should avoid the arrogance of

thinking we have done anything but scratch the surface after 20 years of

practice.

May 1, 2010

Not sure what you're talking about. This isn't about me.

-

" " <johnkokko

Friday, April 30, 2010 7:16 PM

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

> Mercurius,

> if you were Hua Tuo in another life, you'd probably already have been a

> surgeon,

> not an electro-herbalist.

>

> Humility is a sign of mastery.

> Having students who are masters is a sign of true mastery.

>

> Mastering oneself, not just one's art, is a sign of mastery.

> If your art can help you master yourself, then you can be called a true

> master of both.

>

> K

>

> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 7:29 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus <

> magisterium_magnum wrote:

>

>>

>> I wouldn't say that at all. Maybe I was Hua Tuo in my previous existence.

>> Might I have an edge in TCM school going up against a bunch of illiterate

>> hippies? I would say yes.

>>

>> -

>> " " <zrosenbe <zrosenbe%40san.rr.com>>

>> To:

>>

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

>> >

>> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:27 PM

>> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>>

>> >I think this is a very 'apples and oranges' comparison. Buddhist

>> >spiritual

>>

>> >training and development is really on a different plane than learning to

>> >practice medicine and gain experience.

>> >

>> > On Apr 30, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Mercurius Trismegistus wrote:

>> >

>> >> Let's say the Dalai Lama dies and is reincarnated. At age 10, how long

>> >> will

>> >> it take him to attain " mastery " of dharma or Buddhist teachings? Let's

>> be

>> >> real. People could have 1,000 lifetimes of training and discipline

>> behind

>> >> them, and we'd never know it.

>> >>

>> >> -

>> >> <pine.village.tcm <pine.village.tcm%40gmail.com>>

>> >> To:

>> >>

<Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yah\

oogroups.com>

>> >

>> >> Friday, April 30, 2010 5:11 PM

>> >> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>> >>

>> >> > Having been a practitioner of Okinawan karate for 27 years, I find a

>> >> > claim

>> >> > of mastery in such a different art (kinesthetically), in such a

>> >> > short

>> >> > time, as Taijiquan highly suspect. My current Sensei, and his father

>> >> > before him, deflect such accolades as detrimental to their training

>> >> > as

>> >> > well as antithetical to the ideals of budo.

>> >> >

>> >> > And yes, the question still remains: who says who achieves

>> >> > " mastery " ?

>> >> >

>> >> > -Everett

>> >> >

>> >> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

>> >> >

>> >> > ---

>> >> >

>> >> > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at

>> >> > Times

>> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

>> >> >

>> >> > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese

>> medicine

>> >> > and acupuncture, click,

>> >> > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia

>> >> >

>> >> > and

>> >> > adjust

>> >> > accordingly.

>> >> >

>> >> > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the

>> >> > group

>> >> > requires prior permission from the author.

>> >> >

>> >> > Please consider the environment and only print this message if

>> >> > absolutely

>> >> > necessary.

May 1, 2010

Zâ€™ve

You are definitely right about the language Zâ€™ve, there needs to be more

support by schools in this endeavor in order to level the playing field. People

that usually disagree have a vested interest in maintaining a certain level of

ignorance. This medicine requires study. Iâ€™ve been humbled by many experiences

here in Taiwan, but the one that stands out in my mind the most is the senior

practitioners that are in their sixties and older that still make the long

commute every week to these schools outside the university system and sit down,

and with the innocence and curiosity of a young student go over the lines, and

are able to draw new as well as deeper perspective to their understanding of

this medicine.

Zâ€™ve I am going to check out! for a few weeks because I have 3 baogaoâ€™s to

prepare and two midterm exams. So I apologize in advance if I donâ€™t reply to

your emails

Â

Best regards

Gabriel

Â

--- On Fri, 4/30/10, <zrosenbe wrote:

<zrosenbe

Re: Herbal Pharmacology

Chinese Medicine

Friday, April 30, 2010, 12:57 PM

Â

Gabriel,

Thank you for sharing your experiences in Taiwan. Your points are very well

taken, and remind us that we are still in the formative stages of Chinese

medicine in the West. Until we require medical Chinese language in our schools

from the beginning, and include the core literature of the classical medicine,

we will not be up the caliber of practice in places such as Taiwan.

Unfortunately, only a small number of people have been able to pull off such

long-term study in an Asian country such as yourself, you are fortunate indeed.

Folks like myself have had to struggle to learn Chinese on our own, and study

study study without much of a support group. What a dream, to meet with several

hundred colleagues in the mountains to discuss the classics and debate the

commentaries! But treating patients, teaching and studying make it difficult to

make that leap. . .

On Apr 30, 2010, at 2:49 AM, Gabriel Fuentes wrote:

> Hello Zâ€™ev

> This semester Iâ€™m much busier than what Iâ€™ve been in the past, with full

load of classes and my studies outside the school I just donâ€™t have that much

time to participate in these discussions. As far as your question I canâ€™t talk

for the mainland regarding this particular topic, but in Taiwan most researchers

and MS as well as PhD students are only given a few choices as to what Journals

they can publish in (SCI Journals). They do great research that stands up to any

western medical criteria. That said if you want to graduate you have to publish

and design your research along certain guidelines which are considered to be the

standard across the western medical field. Thatâ€™s why you wonâ€™t see that

many Yi Jing Yi sh medical classics and medical history papers coming out of

Taiwan, there still many but they are published in journals of medical history

or published in mainland or Taiwanese local journals that donâ€™t offer impact

factor points

> . How this translates to clinical practice, well it varies from practitioner

to practitioner some may incorporate the newly found evidence into their

practice and some will keep using what has been useful and consistent to them it

all depends, as far as memorization of æ¡æ–‡ or lines I would have to say that

by memorizing you have access to the information in a very intimate way that

allows you to compare it to other lines and play with it in your mind, which I

have to say is a necessity if youâ€™re seeing the amount of patients that these

guys do.

> Best regards,

> Gabriel Fuentes

>

> --- On Thu, 4/29/10, <zrosenbe (AT) san (DOT) rr.com> wrote:

>

> <zrosenbe (AT) san (DOT) rr.com>

> Re: Herbal Pharmacology

>

> Thursday, April 29, 2010, 12:56 PM

>

> Gabe,

> Always good to hear from you. ... as you've pointed out, there are rigorous

programs in the classics in Taiwan and China. I know, for example, Feng Ye, who

co-compiled the Practical Dictionary of CM with Nigel Wiseman, has basically

memorized the Shang Han Lun and Jin Gui Yao Lue and written great commentaries.

However, from your perspective, how has this translated out into clinical

practice on the mainland, especially acupuncture/ moxa? Much of what gets into

the Chinese journals or over here is rather formulaic.

>

> We are just at the beginning of the Chinese medicine phenomenon in the West,

and I for one am concerned that we are able to keep the branches connected to

the trunk and roots of the tree, otherwise I fear we will become like

osteopathy, where only a minority actually practice according to the original

principles of that discipline, and basically practice biomedicine.

>

> On Apr 29, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Gabriel Fuentes wrote:

>

> > I would like to say a few things about the Chinese medicine program at CMU,

Taiwan. There are two tracts for students, one is the post baccalaureate program

and the other is the regular 7 year bachelors program, or 8 year combined

western and program. And yes you only get a bachelors degree

after 8 years! If you do a search on the internet for CMUâ€™s curriculum you

will see that all the classics are covered and when I say classics I mean the

Huandi Neijing, SHL, JGYL, Wenbing. The classes are grueling, and the exams are

insane. Iâ€™m sure if the same requirements were implemented in US schools,

Students would revolt. My education was not anything compared to what these

students go thru.

> > Not only are they exposed to Classics in the classroom, but also in the

different Chinese medicine clubs. They have clubs for just about every topic and

they also invite great scholars to come and lecture. And yes these young kids

memorize and know by heart many chapters some even memorize complete books, and

I hope I donâ€™t get this â€œpatheticâ€ typical western reply that Chinese

students memorize but they canâ€™t articulate or employ what they memorize. As

far as English Speaking websites that say that classics are dead in China, maybe

is true of China, well I would not put to much stock unless you have a very

broad perspective of the situation which I have to say not many westerners do.

> > My 2 centsGabriel Fuentes

> >

> > --- On Thu, 4/29/10, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote:

> >

> > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com>

> > RE: Herbal Pharmacology

> > traditional_ chinese_medicine

> > Thursday, April 29, 2010, 10:24 AM

> >

>

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

Sign In

Herbal Pharmacology

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest guest

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Support the Ashram

Join WhatsApp Group

Top Downloads