Guest guest Report post Posted June 26, 2007 Dear list, Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of Bala (Aim Klim Sauh) Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara. Regards, Sanjay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 27, 2007 (Moderator's note - Please try to learn these things in person from a qualified teacher. Also use a correct transliteration scheme such as ITRANS while typing Sanskrit) Dear Mr. Sanjay Iem Kleem Sowhu.... Iem - Pronounce I deeply and M ( do not stop in middle) Kleem - Pronounce KLEE deeply and M --do-- Sowhu - SOW and Hu --do-- Always its best to see the sanskrit verses to have up and down prounsations and to understand where to tell deeply. At the feet of lalithai S.Vasu Iyer - Tirupur. shripati90 <kr.sanjaysingh Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 4:09:49 PM the bija Dear list, Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of Bala (Aim Klim Sauh) Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara. Regards, Sanjay. _________ All New Mail – Tired of unwanted email come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 28, 2007 Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra is coined in such a way that when you say HA at the end you expel the air inside your lungs and even in stomach. This may possibly to ensure that when people do havan there might be smoke and soot getting into the lungs and to expel the same the word was used as HA - PROBABLY IN ALL HAVANS THE WORD SWAHA was coined for this purpose only. I have seen havans beng done with the word SWAHAHA, whereas most people do it with the word SWAHA. Therefore i personally feel that the word should be chanted as SAUHA INSTEAD OF SAUHU,because the word HAMSAHA is NOT pronounced as HAMSAUHA. I am not a sanskrit expert and do not know gramatical requirements. Can anyone explain, so that everybody doing Bala will be benefitted. Finally the sampradaya and guru vakya are considered more important and powerful but at the same time if the guru is incompetent it is said that one can seek another guru, as a bee would go from flower to flower to collect the honey. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > " shripati90 " <kr.sanjaysingh > > > the bija >Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:39:49 -0000 > >Dear list, > >Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of >Bala (Aim Klim Sauh) > >Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the >Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara. > >Regards, >Sanjay. > _______________ Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports, photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted June 29, 2007 Hari OM the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound AHA AAHAA OHO AUHAU the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound Jai Maa j kalianandaswami S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra is coined in such a way that when you say HA at the end you expel the air inside your lungs and even in stomach. This may possibly to ensure that when people do havan there might be smoke and soot getting into the lungs and to expel the same the word was used as HA - PROBABLY IN ALL HAVANS THE WORD SWAHA was coined for this purpose only. I have seen havans beng done with the word SWAHAHA, whereas most people do it with the word SWAHA. Therefore i personally feel that the word should be chanted as SAUHA INSTEAD OF SAUHU,because the word HAMSAHA is NOT pronounced as HAMSAUHA. I am not a sanskrit expert and do not know gramatical requirements. Can anyone explain, so that everybody doing Bala will be benefitted. Finally the sampradaya and guru vakya are considered more important and powerful but at the same time if the guru is incompetent it is said that one can seek another guru, as a bee would go from flower to flower to collect the honey. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > " shripati90 " <kr.sanjaysingh > > > the bija >Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:39:49 -0000 > >Dear list, > >Can some one help in understanding the pronunciation of thirds bjia of >Bala (Aim Klim Sauh) > >Is it said as SauH or AsuHau as in vadic way. I am confused about the >Visarga pronunciation. Is it simply H or H with previous swara. > >Regards, >Sanjay. > ________ Catch all the cricketing action right here. Live score, match reports, photos et al. http://content.msn.co.in/Sports/Cricket/Default.aspx Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 7, 2007 i have been taught that if visarga is pronounced in mantras it becomes a badha J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote: Hari OM the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound AHA AAHAA OHO AUHAU the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound Jai Maa j kalianandaswami S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: Personally I feel that it should be pronounced as SAUHA. This mantra is [...] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2007 Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah: Hello Folks: My perspective on this is as below. I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " . I guess the argument of exact pronunciation is an endless one. I have seen the same mantras repeated with difference in pronunciation due to regional / language differences. The same mantras are pronounced differently in Bengal, Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir, Maharashtra and so on. Even the famous Shiva Panchakshari is pronounced with slight, subtle differences in various states in India. Yet, everyone gets the benefit of the mantras. Strange but true. This is not much help in resolving the issue, I suppose, but then the only resolution in my mind is that one should repeat these mantras as initiated. I like to pronounce it one particular way.. and all of the Guru Shishya parampara in my Guruji ashram repeat it the same way. Shri Gurubhyo Namah. Shri Mahathripurasundaryai Namah. Pranams. KR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 8, 2007 only the last word in a sentence is the visarga applied all other words it is silent sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote: i have been taught that if visarga is pronounced in mantras it becomes a badha J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote: Hari OM the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound AHA AAHAA OHO AUHAU the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 9, 2007 I fully agree with KR. In order to emphasise the aspect of guroopadesham there are many stories when a meaningless or derisive word spoken by Guru is mistakenly accepted by shishya as mantropadesha and the shishya attaining siddhis. If I am correct, thats exactly what was emphasised in the two sootras of Parashurama kalpa sootras " Bhaavanaa dhaardhyaat nigrahaanugraha sheshi " and " Vishwaasa bhooyishtam praamaanyam " . Kumar Ramachandran <kramach wrote: Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah: Hello Folks: My perspective on this is as below. I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 9, 2007 My question was when chanting the bala bija mantra sauhu, whether it should be pronounced as sauha or sauhu. the same visarga is pronounced as hamsaha and sauhu etc., why this difference. I have had no perfect answers so far. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN >J Kalianandaswami <baba108 > > >RE: the bija >Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:56:39 -0700 (PDT) > >only the last word in a sentence is the visarga applied all other words it >is silent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Brother/sister, A competent guru is one who has the experience of the divine by himself and is capable of transferring that energy with the mantra to the sishya. There cannot be any exception in any mantra pronounciation as all of them are from mantra mahodathi or mantra arnava or srividhya arnava etc. May be the language will come in between to pronounce but that does not mean any one can utter the mantra in the wrong way. They are coined by great rishis to usher the desired effects and therefore should be meticulously followed. it is the duty of great acharyas and saints to correct the wrongs. No compromise is advised. What I am trying to bring out is that the upasaka should learn how to pronounce correctly rather than simply accepting this or that method. Regards, S.SHANGARANARAYANAN > " Kumar Ramachandran " <kramach > > > Re: the bija >Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:32:14 -0000 > > >Shri Mahaganapathaye Namah: > >Hello Folks: > >My perspective on this is as below. > >I came across some funny versions of the Shri Mahaganapathy Mantram >during some Homams that were being performed. I asked my Guruji about >this difference. He said (in Tamil) " Avaavaalukku eppadi upadeshamo >appadiye shollattum " - meaning " As each person has been given >upadesham, let them repeat the exact same way " . > >I guess the argument of exact pronunciation is an endless one. I have >seen the same mantras repeated with difference in pronunciation due to >regional / language differences. The same mantras are pronounced >differently in Bengal, Andhra, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Kashmir, >Maharashtra and so on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 12, 2007 (it is a long mail, actual reply starts at #5) 1. When discussing these matters it is better to base it on some text. This symbol " : " in ITRANS as H, as in ramaH, is called visarga or visarjaniya. This literally means expulsion of breath. 2. J. Kalianandaswami's assertion is sauH should be sauhau is not correct in my opinion. 3. Most south indian pronunciation is heavily influenced by the predominant vedic style of that region, krishna yajur veda, as dictated by taittiriya prAtiSakhya. This spells out the rule on specific details of how things should be pronounced including svara-s of krishna yajur veda. 4. These rules are often followed for non-vedic texts also. For example, vahni is enunciated as vanhi, brahma as brahma, etc. 5. Now coming to the question, sutra 2.48 addresses this. This sutra is pUrvAntasasthAno visarjaniyaH. It means visarjaniya (denoted by : or as H is itrans) is enunciated from the same place as the preceding vowel. Even though it is not a hard sound, only an expulsion of air. Because of its origination of the same place of preceding vowel it is colored by it. That is ramaH is enunciated as rama[ha]. This ha is not a real ha sound. If it was, samskritam being a phonetic language would have written it as ramaha instead of ramaH (I use ITRANS to write in roman). But when you expel air from the same position of " a " is does make feeble sound like " ha " 6. Now the varNa or vowel au is not pure (shuddha) or simple (samaanya). prAtiSakhya calls vowels a, aa, aaa (pluuta), i, ii, ii, u, u, uuu (9 of these) as simple of pure. But au is a complex vowel. This means the preceding vowel sound is not " au " but something like " u " . That is why, sauH will be like sau[hu]. According Charles Wikner (in his wonderful book Practical Sanskrit Introductory discusses these complex vowels in depth and he concludes it somewhere in between u and o). 7. Hence answer to Sankaranarayanan is, it is not like sau[ha] but like sau[hu]. This is not only the tradition, but it is backed by the taittiriya prAtiSakhya. 8. In general when we have visarjaniya in between in the sentence, it is better to use sandhi and go by it. Most old grantha books do it wonderfully. Modern day books in devAnAgari lipi leave that exercise to the read. 9. What this sandhi should be is carefully explained in taittiriiya prAtiSakhya. JSTOR has the entire taittiriiya prAtiSakhya with the tribhAshya ratna commentary (English Translation) online as a PDF file. You can access it for any good library that has internet subscription. I downloaded my copy from UT library. This is an excellent 500 page book and AFAIK, the only available English translation. This book is also in archive.org, but it is not complete. If you are a follower of krishna yajur veda, you SHOULD have it. Full reference is The Tâittirîya - Prâtiçâkhya, with Its Commentary, The Tribhâshyaratna: Text, Translation, and Notes by William D. Whitney, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 9. (1868 - 1871), pp. 1-469. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0279%281868%2F1871%299%3C1%3ATT-PWI%3E2.0.\ CO%3B2-L Journal of the American Oriental Society is currently published by American Oriental Society. On 7/9/07, S Sangaranarayanan <sangarsai wrote: > My question was when chanting the bala bija mantra sauhu, whether it should > be pronounced as sauha or sauhu. the same visarga is pronounced as hamsaha > and sauhu etc., why this difference. I have had no perfect answers so far. > Regards, > S.SHANGARANARAYANAN On the same thread J Kalianandaswami <baba108 wrote: >the two dots : are called visarga they reflect the vowel sound >AHA >AAHAA >OHO >AUHAU >the reflected vowel is more a breath then a hard sound Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted July 20, 2007 On 7/11/07, Ravisankar Mayavaram <abhayambika wrote: > 6. Now the varNa or vowel au is not pure (shuddha) or simple > (samaanya). prAtiSakhya calls vowels a, aa, aaa (pluuta), i, ii, ii, > u, u, uuu (9 of these) as simple of pure. But au is a complex vowel. > This means the preceding vowel sound is not " au " but something like > " u " . That is why, sauH will be like sau[hu]. According Charles Wikner > (in his wonderful book Practical Sanskrit Introductory discusses these > complex vowels in depth and he concludes it somewhere in between u and > o). Actually entire 2nd chapter of taittiriiya praatishaakhya deals with this matter of pronunciation and how specific sounds are produced in great depth. According to the text, au is made of 1/2 a in the beginning + 1 1/2 u at the end. Similarly ai is 1/2 a + 1 1/2 i. Translator Whitney wonders the the depth in which how the ancient phoneticians understood how sounds are produced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chris22 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2012 Hello ! Yes, i found quotes about pronuinciation of औ and ऐ in taittiriya praatsihakhya like you described; that holds well for the taittiriya, but whats about classical sanskrit ? Is there a similar pronunciation guide by patanjali for औ and ऐ and what does he say how to pronounce these ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
