Application of Amsas (Divisions)

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

 

What is the proper meaning of " bhaagake " I am not able to interprete.While going

through the Article what PVRji have written i have taken it as it is.So for

further reference i have put it here for the forum.

 

I don't feel that PVRji have any intentions as you have mentioned him as a

destroyer of Parashar system,it is not fair at all.He is good interpreter and

have good knowledge of Sanskrit word.

 

Anyway ,I am not going forward in all these discussion.I was/ am just silent

learner and feel all these exercise bring some knowledge to all of us so purpose

of this discussion already encash.

 

 

Thanks & regards,

 

M.S.Bohra

 

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Bohra ji,

> The term " viMshati bhaagake " (20th Amsa/Divison) points to the use of 20th

Amsa or Division only. I wonder how one gets or derives the meaning 10th

" Divisional Chart " I wonder! :=) Further please note that NO TERM meaning

" Divisional Chart " is available in ancient classics (whether it be BPHS or

something else). The only term available to us is " Divisions " whether the

sanskrit word used be " Amsa " (Division) or Bhaga (Division).

> How will you justify the following act -

> * Parasara asks someone to look at the Vimshati Bhaga (20th Division) of a

sign (for a single planet).

> * Someone (e.g. PVR) comes forward and draws a chart (20th Divisional

Chart!) and all signs (and marks ALL the planets in it)!

>

> * Parasara said Division and he heard Divisional Chart! I wonder how people

still argue in favor of such evident mistakes!

> * Amsa always refers to a single sign and a possible placement of a single

planet within it; and people started considering all signs and all planets! I

wonder how everyone is still trying to justify such evident mistakes!

>

> Is he doing what Parasara asks him to do? Is he following Parasara correctly

or wrongly? Is he a follower of Parasara system or Distoryer? Is he a student of

Parasara or enemy?

>

> Anyway I am tiered of this and is out of this discussion. We don't need a

lens to see the mountain!

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Sudan " <msbohra62@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> >

> > Here is more fertiliser for further discussion on D-Chart,it is in classic

or later development.PVRji have mentioned the name of Parashar with reference as

:-

> >

> > //Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He

> > clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake " , meaning

" the

> > knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20 " .//

> >

> > You can go with full Article by this link and it will very help full for

them who are searching for spiritual aspects in chart.

> >

> > JyotishWritings/message/5

> >

> > I hope it will helpful for further discussion.

> >

> > Thanks & regards,

> >

> > M.S.Bohra

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Bohra ji, Even though used in the meaning "Degree" as well, in the current context "Bhaga" means "Division". "Bhagake" means "with the division". "Vimshati" means "20th". Thus the wording "Vimshati bhagake" means "with the 20th division". Another word used to mean division is "Amsa". Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sudan" <msbohra62 wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > What is the proper meaning of "bhaagake" I am not able to interprete.While going through the Article what PVRji have written i have taken it as it is.So for further reference i have put it here for the forum.> > I don't feel that PVRji have any intentions as you have mentioned him as a destroyer of Parashar system,it is not fair at all.He is good interpreter and have good knowledge of Sanskrit word.> > Anyway ,I am not going forward in all these discussion.I was/ am just silent learner and feel all these exercise bring some knowledge to all of us so purpose of this discussion already encash.> > > Thanks & regards,> > M.S.Bohra> > > , "sreesog" sreesog@ wrote:> >> > Dear Bohra ji, > > The term "viMshati bhaagake" (20th Amsa/Divison) points to the use of 20th Amsa or Division only. I wonder how one gets or derives the meaning 10th "Divisional Chart" I wonder! :=) Further please note that NO TERM meaning "Divisional Chart" is available in ancient classics (whether it be BPHS or something else). The only term available to us is "Divisions" whether the sanskrit word used be "Amsa" (Division) or Bhaga (Division). > > How will you justify the following act -> > * Parasara asks someone to look at the Vimshati Bhaga (20th Division) of a sign (for a single planet). > > * Someone (e.g. PVR) comes forward and draws a chart (20th Divisional Chart!) and all signs (and marks ALL the planets in it)! > > > > * Parasara said Division and he heard Divisional Chart! I wonder how people still argue in favor of such evident mistakes! > > * Amsa always refers to a single sign and a possible placement of a single planet within it; and people started considering all signs and all planets! I wonder how everyone is still trying to justify such evident mistakes! > > > > Is he doing what Parasara asks him to do? Is he following Parasara correctly or wrongly? Is he a follower of Parasara system or Distoryer? Is he a student of Parasara or enemy? > > > > Anyway I am tiered of this and is out of this discussion. We don't need a lens to see the mountain! > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh > > > > , "Sudan" <msbohra62@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Friends,> > > > > > Here is more fertiliser for further discussion on D-Chart,it is in classic or later development.PVRji have mentioned the name of Parashar with reference as :-> > > > > > //Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which purposes. He> > > clearly said "upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake", meaning "the> > > knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in D-20".//> > > > > > You can go with full Article by this link and it will very help full for them who are searching for spiritual aspects in chart.> > > > > > JyotishWritings/message/5> > > > > > I hope it will helpful for further discussion.> > > > > > Thanks & regards,> > > > > > M.S.Bohra> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chakraborty ji,

 

Many thanks for the painstaking effort. The summary would surely be of much use.

 

Regards

Neelam

 

 

, " Chakraborty, PL "

<CHAKRABORTYP2 wrote:

>

> Dear Learned Seniors,

>

> The following is an attempt to summarize the discussions on

> " Application of Amsha (Division) "

>

> The discussion was attended by many learned persons who appeared

> to be favoring one of two approaches.

> (For brevity's sake, let us call parties by name A & B)

>

> Group A : Favors a strong classical approach. Any dictums used

> need to be supported by Rishi Hora / astrology classics.

> The motto appears to be " Let us understand our classics

> first before projecting anything new. Basics first "

> Group B : Favors classics. However, ready to accept something

> if it logical & works consistently.

>

> Although not explicitly stated, the discussion is based on the Cyclic way

> of division of sign. The other methods like Jaimini or Kalchakra navamsa

> was not discussed, although Jaimini was mentioned at starting phase.

>

> The main points that came up are :

>

> 1) Terminology

>

> The terminolgy was not evenly applied and hence created some confusion

>

> Amsa --- Part of a sign. Like within sign of Aries, there will be 9 nos.

of navamsa

> which are called Aries navamsa.

> Amsaka - After division of sign, where a planet / point will be posited.

> Like 4th navamsa of Taurus will get posited in Aries

> sign in navamsa & hence it is called as in Aries navamsaka.

> Similarly for other signs too.

>

> 2) The main discussion was regarding whether after division of signs

> and getting navamsa position of planets etc., what do we do ?

>

> Group A : amsa positions are to be put in Rasi chart itself.

> The lagna is the focal point. There can not be any other focal point. The

> common usage of amsa chart(D-chart) is not supported by any classics.

>

> Group B stated that in addition to above statement, the amsa positions

> can be independently put in a chart with focal point being the lagnamsa.

> That is creation of what is known as Amsa chart or D-charts. This method

> has been used by many reputed astrolgers effectively and works well.

>

> The high level of discussion created confusion in lay forum members

> regarding follwong points :

>

> a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to

> what extent ? Whether a planet deb. in rasi chart but exalted in

> navamsa would behave in an exlated manner ?

>

> The veterans replied that such level of modification is not possible.

>

> b) An unstated question remained in background. (Memebrs assumed

> answers for it, I guess). 'Lagna is very important. Hence lagnamsa

> is also important. But what is the level of importance that the same

> can or can not be used as a focal point ? "

>

> c) Another unstated question was whether relative position of planets

> in navamsa conveys any information ?

> Group A stated that it does not mean anything. Group B stated

> otherwise.

>

> d) Whether there can be dristi/ aspects in navamsa ? Reference of

> Rohini-Ranjan-ji was provided. However same was quashed by group A.

>

> However, Group B stated that dristi can be utilized in D-chart as well.

> A side discussion was also going on about presence of Yoga in D-charts

> mentioned in Mansagiri and 'scattered in various classics'. This was

> not picked by Group A

>

> e) There was also discussion about 'Navamsa Tulya Rasi' and 'rasi tulya

> navamsa'. However ellaboration was not provided and hence its significance

> in the present discussion (whether these techniques are supporting Group

> A or Gr B) was not understood by me.

>

> f) Reference about teachings of Sri B V Raman, Sri K N Rao-ji and other

> reputable astrologers were drawn. However, Group A suggested that

> the methods are not supported by any classics.

>

> g) The famous book by CS Patel-ji was discussed in detail. Group B stated

> that the writing supports the usage of D-charts. Group A again quashed

> that argument by providing a detailed analysis of the same book.

>

> h) Sri Goel-ji provided a write-up about how to use D-charts. That was

> readily downloaded and studied by many members.

>

> i) There was also an illustration about Indira Gandhi-s 7th house in Rasi

> D-9 chart was presented. It showed (as per author) how D-charts can

> show something which may be not seen in Rasi chart. However, arguments

> are still going on

>

> In essence, the following remains the Salient points :(as per my

understanding)

>

> 1) Rasi chart provides some information.

> 2) The navamsa (or any amsa) is put in Rasi chart, it provides some Additional

> information.

> 3) Lagnamsa is an important point. Using it a focal point and creating

D-chart

> provides another level of added information. The question is whether this

> projection (and thereby removing natal lagna as focus) is giving accurate

> additional information all the times ?

>

> Group A stated that Basics should be understood clearly before accepting

> or rejecting anything. Otherwise, there would be no end in taking in many

> other concepts and thereby diluting our own base.

>

> Anyway, I hope after Diwali Celebration is over, someone would provide us

> with a good blind chart and we will see how Classical way of using navamsa

> gives us additional information. And whether D-charts provides us further

> Reliable information or not.

>

> BTW, I don't have any chart to offer. Someone else may kindly do it.

>

> regards

>

> Chakraborty

>

>

> ________________________________

> sreesog [sreesog]

> Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:04 PM

>

> Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

>

>

>

> Dear Neelam ji,

> //Astrologers from different regions have devised their own microscopes,

telescopes, spreadsheets, and what not to look at what classics have

said.Instead of looking at each other's devices with scepticism and contempt,

and thinking that they are not `shastrokt' may not be right for the growth of

any subject.//

> The why don't you use extra saturnian planets, tropical astrology,

progression, western aspects, lay lines, relocational astrology, comets,

satellites and meteriorites, the distant stars like sirius and son on?!! That

will make things look more modern and advanced! Simply that answer to this is

that - all those are NOT our subject! We are into ANCIENT Indian astrology and

so let us be sincere to it. What we discuss here should be " shastrokt " and

everything else we can use as a personal tool - in personal readings or other

groups. Just remember our conflict with Robert Koch ji and Prafulla ji - they

were bringing in extra saturnian planets and comets - and the group interactions

were getting strained and group losing interest. We are here to learn astrology

" as told in classics " ; and once we are successful in it, we can think of

" modern " " innovative " " new born " microscopes and spread sheets. It doesn't

make sense to jump before we stand! At least we should know " What classics have

said " , " to make new devices to elaborate upon it " . If we haven't covered the

first step, what is the meaning in going to the second? If not based on the

first, what is the use of the second? Especially in a group dedicated to attend

the first question? Let us try to understand " What the classics said? " in a

better way. That itself is the purpose of this group I believe - and beyond that

is not and should not be a domain we should concentrate upon here.

> //> *Now, with your kind permission, shall we take a break? Let us request

someone, may be Chakraborthy ji (he had done a wonderful engineering job

earlier) to be the rapporteur and present an essence of what we've achieved so

far. If anything at all!:-)*//

> Yes we can. I request Chakraborty ji to do the same. I won't be pumping mails

to you on this subject anymore, even though I may continue interaction on this

subject with Shanmukha ji and Utkal ji if they are interested. Because I think,

I have something extra to learn/gain from Shanmukha ji and his perspective at

least on this matter. (So continuing the interaction with them on this, is for

my own benefit - I hope you won't object to that).

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> --- In

<%40\

groups.com>, neelam gupta <neelamgupta07@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh ji,

> >

> > 1) KNR (Neelam ji's astro guru) supports it

> > 2) May be her own experience/experiments supports it

> >

> > After these two points and my YES to both, all arguments stop for me as of

> > now because I have not yet grown beyond what I have learnt from my esteemed

> > Guruji. Still diving and finding the pearls in the same ocean.:-) And I also

> > have firm belief that what I have been told and what I have accepted is not

> > deviating from classical texts. Again supported my own experience so far.

> >

> > About the rest there is NO confusion in my mind. We are just trying to

> > understand that classics have not advocated any hard and fast rules on tools

> > used to apply these dictums. They perhaps thought that readers would be

> > intelligent enough to devise their own means and methods. That is why you

> > are also only beating about the same bush and saying the same things in a

> > different manner. Astrologers from different regions have devised their own

> > microscopes, telescopes, spreadsheets, and what not to look at what classics

> > have said. Instead of looking at each other's devices with scepticism and

> > contempt, and thinking that they are not `shastrokt' may not be right for

> > the growth of any subject. Any which way one looks at the navamsha chart,

> > one is still using it successfully.

> >

> > When LPG came in, old people made a huge fuss about the method not being

> > pure enough and only food cooked on coals must be devoured because that's

> > what our shastras have recommended. Same happened when microwaves came. In a

> > similar vein, many Jains would only drink water from the wells and use cloth

> > filters to purify it, despite having microfilters of RO plants available

> > with us, just because some verses in shastras say that water from the well

> > should be consumed. There are thousands of examples when those who did not

> > want to move ahead blamed shastras for everything.

> >

> > Ancient classics have not stopped us from making advancements for techniques

> > to be used. You may call these varga charts Frankensteins, but these are and

> > will be remain pure and pristine glory and have emerged as tools to

> > understand ad apply classic dictums..

> >

> > *Now, with your kind permission, shall we take a break? Let us request

> > someone, may be Chakraborthy ji (he had done a wonderful engineering job

> > earlier) to be the rapporteur and present an essence of what we've achieved

> > so far. If anything at all!:-)*

> >

> > Regards

> > Neelam

> >

>

>

>

> This Message was sent from Indian Oil Messaging Gateway, New Delhi, India. The

information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this

message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain

proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh Ji, Chakroborty ji, Neelam Ji et All,

 

//a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to what extent ? Whether a planet deb. in rasi chart but exalted in navamsa would behave in an exlated manner ? //

 

// The veterans replied that such level of modification is not possible.//

// They are absolutely right //

 

I am no veteran, but, in my view any jyotishi who misses the significance of the above combination is sure to go wrong in the Analysis. It may NOT behave in an "exalted" manner exactly, BUT, one or many of the following will surely happen:

 

a) In the later half of the persons life the significations of this Graha will dramatically improve.

 

b) Even amidst "debiliating" circumstances, some "exalted" results are sure to manifest in this domain of life (most probably in the 2nd half of life).

 

c) While for all external appearances the "debilitation" might be in effect, this might be a catalyst to extradinory achievement by the individual (in the 2nd half of life most probably).

 

It is the third attribute c) that has prompted some people to consider the above combination as an alternative type of Neecha Bhanga situation.

 

Ofcourse all above observatiuons are subservient to the general strength and tenor of the Rashi chart in general.

 

Talking about practical examples, I request Vijay Goel Ji to resubmit a chart which he had submitted earlier. It was a client of his who had a fall out with his father regarding his family business. In an offlist conversation with Vijay Ji we were discussing why one of the antars did NOT manifest the problem while the "other" Antar did. This was NOT very clear from the Rashi chart, but seemed very clear from the Dashamsa (or Dashamshaka). I liked this example because even without using aspects etc, it proves that using these Vargas (either as separate charts as I have been using, I confess) or like Sreenadh Ji prefers, it still is very helpful.

 

Seems to be that EVEN setting aside the conterversial areas of "aspects" in Vargas and "house rulerships" withing Vargas, there are many commanalities to explore between Sreenadh Ji's approach and "the rest of the Group".

 

Sreenadh Ji, I have to give you a special point for being the courageous Lone Ranger putting up the fight. Neelam Ji, I have to give you a point for being the most eloquent spokes person of the "We use Vargas and we use it well" camp.

 

The Score is: 7-5, 5-7, 7-5, 5-7, 16-16 (No Tie breakers allowed since this is the French Open)

 

Regards,

-Manoj

 

 

 

 

 

sreesog <sreesog Sent: Wed, October 14, 2009 5:17:56 AM Re: Application of Amsas (Divisions)

Dear Chakraborty ji, That was nice - well done! It seems that some of the doubts raised in this message should not be left unanswered - therefore I will try to attend the same. //'Lagna is very important. Hence lagnamsa is also important. But what is the level of importance that the same can or can not be used as a focal point ?"//Actually Lagna is very important and so is Lagnamsa and LagnamsaKA (please check the terminology) . LagnamsaKA is considered as one of the major focal point as well. Not for NavamsaKA chart (in the way D-chartists considers it); but for Natal Rasi Chart itself. LagnamsaKA is one of major Arudhas (starting points) considered and elaborated in texts like Prashnamarga. That is, we are adviced to consider "NATAL planetary position" starting from LagnamsaKA sign, in the same way we do with Lagna. This is one of the subtle, but well reputed, classic supported technique. So the point is the traditionalists do not

reject the importance of LagnamsaKA, but rejects the way in which it is used by D-chartists (i.e. as a starting point in D-chart to read amsaka positions).// A side discussion was also going on about presence of Yoga in D-charts mentioned in Mansagiri and 'scattered in various classics'. This was not picked by Group A //Yoga in NavamsaKA is well accepted by traditionalists - considering Yoga in Navamsa is well acceptable and is supported by the classics, since this is very logical. Let me explain with an example - Think that Sun is in 1st navamsa of Aries, and Jupiter in 7th navamsa of Libra. The NavamsaKA of both Sun and Jupiter will be Aries (i.e. The 1st Navamsa of Aries and 7th Navamsa of Libra falls in Aries). Or in other words, Sun is placed in Aries sign in an area allocated to Aries sign itself (within Aries sign). Similarly Jupiter is placed in Libra sign in an area allocated to Aries sign (within Libra sign). Thus both Sun and Jupiter

is placed in a sub division (Navamsa) allocated to Aries itself - and thus can convey something common through Aries/Mars. i.e. Sun and Jupiter is connected here THROUGH Aries/Mars. This is a real connection (Yoga in NavamsaKA) and therefore acceptable. Here also some caution on the use of correct terminology-* Yoga in Navamsa means - both planets are placed in the same sign same Navamsa. Therefore there is no question of doubting whether it is a Yoga or not. It IS a Yoga.* Yoga in NavamsaKA means - both the planets are placed in different signs, but in an sub-division (Navamsa) allocated to the same sign (same NavamsaKA). The above explanation clarifies that this too is considered as a Yoga (i.e. Yoga in NavamsaKA) as per traditionalists and astro classics. //> a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to> what extent ? Whether a planet deb. in rasi chart but exalted in> navamsa would behave in an

exlated manner ?> The veterans replied that such level of modification is not possible.//They are absolutely right. //> a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to> what extent ? //This can be discussed in detail, by considering all the Navamaka possibilities of a Single planet in one sign, and referring to the classical dictums available related to the same; and then cross checking the same with live examples. //> Anyway, I hope ........., someone would provide us> with a good blind chart and we will see how Classical way of using navamsa gives us additional information. And whether D-charts provides us further Reliable information or not.//Yes, that should be the next logical verification round.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "Chakraborty, PL" <CHAKRABORTYP2@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Learned Seniors,> > The following is an attempt to summarize the discussions on> "Application of Amsha (Division)"> > The discussion was attended by many learned persons who appeared> to be favoring one of two approaches.> (For brevity's sake, let us call parties by name A & B)> > Group A : Favors a strong classical approach. Any dictums used> need to be supported by Rishi Hora / astrology classics.> The motto appears to be "Let us understand our classics> first before projecting anything new. Basics first"> Group B : Favors classics. However, ready to accept something> if it logical & works consistently.> > Although not explicitly stated, the discussion is

based on the Cyclic way> of division of sign. The other methods like Jaimini or Kalchakra navamsa> was not discussed, although Jaimini was mentioned at starting phase.> > The main points that came up are :> > 1) Terminology> > The terminolgy was not evenly applied and hence created some confusion> > Amsa --- Part of a sign. Like within sign of Aries, there will be 9 nos. of navamsa> which are called Aries navamsa.> Amsaka - After division of sign, where a planet / point will be posited.> Like 4th navamsa of Taurus will get posited in Aries> sign in navamsa & hence it is called as in Aries navamsaka.> Similarly for other signs too.> > 2) The main discussion was regarding whether after division of signs> and getting navamsa position of planets etc., what do we do ?> > Group A : amsa positions are to be put in Rasi

chart itself.> The lagna is the focal point. There can not be any other focal point. The> common usage of amsa chart(D-chart) is not supported by any classics.> > Group B stated that in addition to above statement, the amsa positions> can be independently put in a chart with focal point being the lagnamsa.> That is creation of what is known as Amsa chart or D-charts. This method> has been used by many reputed astrolgers effectively and works well.> > The high level of discussion created confusion in lay forum members> regarding follwong points :> > a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to> what extent ? Whether a planet deb. in rasi chart but exalted in> navamsa would behave in an exlated manner ?> > The veterans replied that such level of modification is not possible.> > b) An unstated question remained

in background. (Memebrs assumed> answers for it, I guess). 'Lagna is very important. Hence lagnamsa> is also important. But what is the level of importance that the same> can or can not be used as a focal point ?"> > c) Another unstated question was whether relative position of planets> in navamsa conveys any information ?> Group A stated that it does not mean anything. Group B stated> otherwise.> > d) Whether there can be dristi/ aspects in navamsa ? Reference of> Rohini-Ranjan- ji was provided. However same was quashed by group A.> > However, Group B stated that dristi can be utilized in D-chart as well.> A side discussion was also going on about presence of Yoga in D-charts> mentioned in Mansagiri and 'scattered in various classics'. This was> not picked by Group A> > e) There was also discussion about 'Navamsa Tulya Rasi' and

'rasi tulya> navamsa'. However ellaboration was not provided and hence its significance> in the present discussion (whether these techniques are supporting Group> A or Gr B) was not understood by me.> > f) Reference about teachings of Sri B V Raman, Sri K N Rao-ji and other> reputable astrologers were drawn. However, Group A suggested that> the methods are not supported by any classics.> > g) The famous book by CS Patel-ji was discussed in detail. Group B stated> that the writing supports the usage of D-charts. Group A again quashed> that argument by providing a detailed analysis of the same book.> > h) Sri Goel-ji provided a write-up about how to use D-charts. That was> readily downloaded and studied by many members.> > i) There was also an illustration about Indira Gandhi-s 7th house in Rasi> D-9 chart was presented. It showed (as per

author) how D-charts can> show something which may be not seen in Rasi chart. However, arguments> are still going on> > In essence, the following remains the Salient points :(as per my understanding)> > 1) Rasi chart provides some information.> 2) The navamsa (or any amsa) is put in Rasi chart, it provides some Additional> information.> 3) Lagnamsa is an important point. Using it a focal point and creating D-chart> provides another level of added information. The question is whether this> projection (and thereby removing natal lagna as focus) is giving accurate> additional information all the times ?> > Group A stated that Basics should be understood clearly before accepting> or rejecting anything. Otherwise, there would be no end in taking in many> other concepts and thereby diluting our own base.> > Anyway, I hope after Diwali

Celebration is over, someone would provide us> with a good blind chart and we will see how Classical way of using navamsa> gives us additional information. And whether D-charts provides us further> Reliable information or not.> > BTW, I don't have any chart to offer. Someone else may kindly do it.> > regards> > Chakraborty

[Guest guest]

Dear Manoj Chandran ji, Beautiful mail! You gave me hearty lagh by the end of the mail. //Seems to be that EVEN setting aside the conterversial areas of

"aspects" in Vargas and "house rulerships" withing Vargas, there are

many commanalities to explore between Sreenadh Ji's approach and "the

rest of the Group".Sreenadh Ji, I have to give you a special point for being the

courageous Lone Ranger putting up the fight. Neelam Ji, I have to give

you a point for being the most eloquent spokes person of the "We use

Vargas and we use it well" camp.// Well said - it felt as if "Me" and "Rest of the group". Ha..Ha.. Well said! But, may be - just a may be - me too was voicing the thoughts of a silent community. And the "rest of the group" is not composed of as many as the voices felt us think. May be -- there all just a may be -- based on the current poll status. Hope you might have checked it - Otherwise check it here: /surveys?id=2559009 5 people in favor of Divison only and till now only 1 in to the Divisions+Divisional chart camp! I wonder why is it so! Let the French opens and ties happen again - so that more knowledge would flow in the group. Love and regards,Sreenadh , Manoj Chandran <chandran_manoj wrote:>> Dear Sreenadh Ji, Chakroborty ji, Neelam Ji et All,> > //a) The Rasi chart indications gets modified by amsa chart. But to what extent ? Whether a planet deb. in rasi chart but exalted in navamsa would behave in an exlated manner ? //> > // The veterans replied that such level of modification is not possible.//> > // They are absolutely right //> > I am no veteran, but, in my view any jyotishi who misses the significance of the above combination is sure to go wrong in the Analysis. It may NOT behave in an "exalted" manner exactly, BUT, one or many of the following will surely happen:> > a) In the later half of the persons life the significations of this Graha will dramatically improve.> > b) Even amidst "debiliating" circumstances, some "exalted" results are sure to manifest in this domain of life (most probably in the 2nd half of life).> > c) While for all external appearances the "debilitation" might be in effect, this might be a catalyst to extradinory achievement by the individual (in the 2nd half of life most probably).> > It is the third attribute c) that has prompted some people to consider the above combination as an alternative type of Neecha Bhanga situation.> > Ofcourse all above observatiuons are subservient to the general strength and tenor of the Rashi chart in general.> > Talking about practical examples, I request Vijay Goel Ji to resubmit a chart which he had submitted earlier. It was a client of his who had a fall out with his father regarding his family business. In an offlist conversation with Vijay Ji we were discussing why one of the antars did NOT manifest the problem while the "other" Antar did. This was NOT very clear from the Rashi chart, but seemed very clear from the Dashamsa (or Dashamshaka). I liked this example because even without using aspects etc, it proves that using these Vargas (either as separate charts as I have been using, I confess) or like Sreenadh Ji prefers, it still is very helpful.> > Seems to be that EVEN setting aside the conterversial areas of "aspects" in Vargas and "house rulerships" withing Vargas, there are many commanalities to explore between Sreenadh Ji's approach and "the rest of the Group".> > Sreenadh Ji, I have to give you a special point for being the courageous Lone Ranger putting up the fight. Neelam Ji, I have to give you a point for being the most eloquent spokes person of the "We use Vargas and we use it well" camp.> > The Score is: 7-5, 5-7, 7-5, 5-7, 16-16 (No Tie breakers allowed since this is the French Open) > > Regards,> -Manoj

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadhji,

 

" Bhagake " means " Bhaga Karke " or other word as you have mention 'after

division'/With the division.

 

Up to X class i have third language as sanskrit but after never use in any

translation,i can read and pronounce well but translation many times very

difficult.

 

Thanks & regards,

 

M.S.Bohra

 

, " sreesog " <sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Bohra ji,

> Even though used in the meaning " Degree " as well, in the current

> context " Bhaga " means " Division " . " Bhagake " means " with the division " .

> " Vimshati " means " 20th " . Thus the wording " Vimshati bhagake " means " with

> the 20th division " . Another word used to mean division is " Amsa " .

> Love and regards,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Sudan " <msbohra62@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadhji,

> >

> > What is the proper meaning of " bhaagake " I am not able to

> interprete.While going through the Article what PVRji have written i

> have taken it as it is.So for further reference i have put it here for

> the forum.

> >

> > I don't feel that PVRji have any intentions as you have mentioned him

> as a destroyer of Parashar system,it is not fair at all.He is good

> interpreter and have good knowledge of Sanskrit word.

> >

> > Anyway ,I am not going forward in all these discussion.I was/ am just

> silent learner and feel all these exercise bring some knowledge to all

> of us so purpose of this discussion already encash.

> >

> >

> > Thanks & regards,

> >

> > M.S.Bohra

> >

> >

> > , " sreesog " sreesog@

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Bohra ji,

> > > The term " viMshati bhaagake " (20th Amsa/Divison) points to the use

> of 20th Amsa or Division only. I wonder how one gets or derives the

> meaning 10th " Divisional Chart " I wonder! :=) Further please note that

> NO TERM meaning " Divisional Chart " is available in ancient classics

> (whether it be BPHS or something else). The only term available to us is

> " Divisions " whether the sanskrit word used be " Amsa " (Division) or Bhaga

> (Division).

> > > How will you justify the following act -

> > > * Parasara asks someone to look at the Vimshati Bhaga (20th

> Division) of a sign (for a single planet).

> > > * Someone (e.g. PVR) comes forward and draws a chart (20th

> Divisional Chart!) and all signs (and marks ALL the planets in it)!

> > >

> > > * Parasara said Division and he heard Divisional Chart! I wonder

> how people still argue in favor of such evident mistakes!

> > > * Amsa always refers to a single sign and a possible placement of a

> single planet within it; and people started considering all signs and

> all planets! I wonder how everyone is still trying to justify such

> evident mistakes!

> > >

> > > Is he doing what Parasara asks him to do? Is he following Parasara

> correctly or wrongly? Is he a follower of Parasara system or Distoryer?

> Is he a student of Parasara or enemy?

> > >

> > > Anyway I am tiered of this and is out of this discussion. We don't

> need a lens to see the mountain!

> > > Love and regards,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " Sudan "

> <msbohra62@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Friends,

> > > >

> > > > Here is more fertiliser for further discussion on D-Chart,it is in

> classic or later development.PVRji have mentioned the name of Parashar

> with reference as :-

> > > >

> > > > //Parasara clarified which amsas (divisions) are used for which

> purposes. He

> > > > clearly said " upaasanaayaaH viGYaanaM saadhyaM viMshati bhaagake " ,

> meaning " the

> > > > knowledge of one's worship and spiritual practices is possible in

> D-20 " .//

> > > >

> > > > You can go with full Article by this link and it will very help

> full for them who are searching for spiritual aspects in chart.

> > > >

> > > > JyotishWritings/message/5

> > > >

> > > > I hope it will helpful for further discussion.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks & regards,

> > > >

> > > > M.S.Bohra

> > >

> >

>