Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 1:03 AM Re: The Enlightenment Question Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:05 PM > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 2:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2004 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:27 PM > > > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought is the overlay that occurs within the frontal > > cortex of > > > > the human brain. > > > > > > > > It is really an amazing lens and offers consciousness infinite new > > > > possibilities.............................save one..........the > > ability to > > > > see itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ARE seeing yourself. Look around you; it's all your creation. What > > > > > > you're having difficulty with is knowing yourself to BE that. > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > That.........is new age..... egoic grandiosity. > > > > > > The 'self' imagines itself to the the king of its own imaginary kingdom. > > > > > > Look for this king......when the body dies. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how can " you " be so certain, > > > of knowing or imagining now or then? Hmmm? > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Only the ego speaks of being everything. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > So every enlightened master who speaks of Self as the totality of everything > > and nothing is trapped in ego fantasy? Hmmmm, interesting approach. How's > > that working for ya? > > > > Phil > > > > > > You selectively believe the words that flow only through the 'enlightened masters' that > coincide with your own misconceptions. > > The master tells a student that the Self is everything and nothing. > > The student takes this literally....and feels quite comfortable in its own imagined vastness. > > > toombaru > > > Comfortably numb? > > > > > > > > > > ** > Comfortably dead. t did you say something? a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 2:05 AM Re: Re: The Enlightenment Question In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, anders_lindman writes: > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce the Movie all by yourself. As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history record of the universe. al. I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? Phil Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and 'You " , it sounds like confusion, unless we are into the process of deconstructing... Ana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 2:17 AM Re: The Enlightenment Question Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > the Movie all by yourself. > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > record of the universe. > > al. > > > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > Phil > When the discriminating mind searches within its self for answers to self referential questions....only further confusion can result. toombaru the confuser ends in the confusion, eh? Ana ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 2:15 AM Re: Re: The Enlightenment Question In a message dated 10/30/2005 10:04:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, cptc writes: Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:05 PM > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 2:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > toombaru2004 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:27 PM > > > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought is the overlay that occurs within the frontal > > cortex of > > > > the human brain. > > > > > > > > It is really an amazing lens and offers consciousness infinite new > > > > possibilities.............................save one..........the > > ability to > > > > see itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ARE seeing yourself. Look around you; it's all your creation. What > > > > > > you're having difficulty with is knowing yourself to BE that. > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > That.........is new age..... egoic grandiosity. > > > > > > The 'self' imagines itself to the the king of its own imaginary kingdom. > > > > > > Look for this king......when the body dies. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how can " you " be so certain, > > > of knowing or imagining now or then? Hmmm? > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > Only the ego speaks of being everything. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > So every enlightened master who speaks of Self as the totality of everything > > and nothing is trapped in ego fantasy? Hmmmm, interesting approach. How's > > that working for ya? > > > > Phil > > > > > > You selectively believe the words that flow only through the 'enlightened masters' that > coincide with your own misconceptions. > > The master tells a student that the Self is everything and nothing. > > The student takes this literally....and feels quite comfortable in its own imagined vastness. > > > toombaru > > > Comfortably numb? > > > > > > > > > > ** > Comfortably dead. My condolences. LOL, the dead laugheth on halloween.. smiles, Ana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - toombaru2004 Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 2:37 AM Re: The Enlightenment Question Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 10:04:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, > cptc@w... writes: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > toombaru2004 > > Nisargadatta > > Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:05 PM > > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 2:41:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > toombaru2004 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Sunday, October 30, 2005 5:27 PM > > > > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought is the overlay that occurs within the > frontal > > > cortex of > > > > > the human brain. > > > > > > > > > > It is really an amazing lens and offers consciousness > infinite new > > > > > possibilities.............................save > one..........the > > > ability to > > > > > see itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You ARE seeing yourself. Look around you; it's all your > creation. What > > > > > > > > you're having difficulty with is knowing yourself to BE that. > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > That.........is new age..... egoic grandiosity. > > > > > > > > The 'self' imagines itself to the the king of its own imaginary > kingdom. > > > > > > > > Look for this king......when the body dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how can " you " be so certain, > > > > of knowing or imagining now or then? Hmmm? > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > Only the ego speaks of being everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So every enlightened master who speaks of Self as the totality of > everything > > > and nothing is trapped in ego fantasy? Hmmmm, interesting approach. > How's > > > that working for ya? > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > You selectively believe the words that flow only through the > 'enlightened masters' that > > coincide with your own misconceptions. > > > > The master tells a student that the Self is everything and nothing. > > > > The student takes this literally....and feels quite comfortable in its > own imagined > vastness. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Comfortably numb? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > Comfortably dead. > > > > > > My condolences. > My.........My..........me.............me..............mine............. me.........me................me......me me.........me me. chorus: Me me me.....me me...............me me (Egoic durge) Ain't no sunshine till she comes... hehe ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 4:52 AM Re: The Enlightenment Question Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:17:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:25:16 PM Pacific Standard > Time, > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic > projection. A > > very > > > > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part > contains > > some > > > > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can perhaps > > someday be > > > > able to alter this projection called the body into a younger > > body, or > > > > into something else, or into an older body too for that > matter. A > > > > holographic projection cannot die, it is just > pure " information " . > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did God get lost in that equation? > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > O no, God cannot be lost. God is the One Movie Producer, the > > > Unmoved Mover, the Central Sun, the One Awareness. What we are > > > experiencing now is God in action. > > > > > > Look at the computer monitor in front of you. It exists now and > only > > > now. The computer monitor has not been manufactured by people in > some > > > factory. There are no people. :-) All " stuff " is Maya! The > computer > > > monitor in front of you is " only " a part of the 3D holographic > Kosmic > > > Movie called the physical universe. > > > > > > As the little kid said in the Matrix movie: " There is no spoon " > > > > > > The Matrix movie has not been produced and directed in the past, > it is > > > produced NOW and only now in the " time " of zero seconds by the > One > > > Movie Producer. And " The One Movie " is the physical universe. All > > of it. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the > Wachowski > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to > the > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the > entire > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > > record of the universe. > > > > al. > > God create something....a movie....or whatever...? > > > maybe with the energy of God....one can dream about movies.....or > whatever imagination..... > the only one " who " is responsible for the " illusory " movie is the ego > mind......... > don't think that God is responsible for anything what happen in " our " > dreams.... > > when the dream end....there is God remaining.....means, awareness of > all the dreamed...past....future.....dimensions....or whatever > > we should watch the movie....yes...why not....let's do it with > consciousness....of the real energy behind...... > > without light....no movie..... > > Regards and love > > Marc > I meant by the " movie " everything. From the blood that your heart pumps, to your thoughts and emotions, to the computer monitor in front of you, to the sun, the birds, the stars... al. Simply said, This, the movie, the camera, the film, the editor, the colour, light and sound, the content the empty space, damn, hijacked again. THIS. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:23 PM > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:25:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > cptc@w... writes: > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought is the overlay that occurs within the frontal > cortex of > > > the human brain. > > > > > > It is really an amazing lens and offers consciousness infinite new > > > possibilities.............................save one..........the > ability to > > > see itself. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > You ARE seeing yourself. Look around you; it's all your creation. > What > > > you're having difficulty with is knowing yourself to BE that. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > That.........is new age..... egoic grandiosity. > > > > The 'self' imagines itself to the the king of its own imaginary kingdom. > > > > Look for this king......when the body dies. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic projection. A very > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part contains some > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can perhaps someday be > able to alter this projection called the body into a younger body, or > into something else, or into an older body too for that matter. A > holographic projection cannot die, it is just pure " information " . > > al. > > > > I vote younger body, lot easier to carry around ;-) > Ana > The idea was (and this is even beyond most New Age fantasies) that we can shapeshift into anything instantly. From a young woman into an old man and back again into a young woman within seconds! Your " body " would be totally alterable at all times. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:17:43 PM Pacific Standard > Time, > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:25:16 PM Pacific Standard > > > Time, > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic > > > projection. A > > > > very > > > > > > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part > > > contains > > > > some > > > > > > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can perhaps > > > > someday be > > > > > > able to alter this projection called the body into a > younger > > > > body, or > > > > > > into something else, or into an older body too for that > > > matter. A > > > > > > holographic projection cannot die, it is just > > > pure " information " . > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did God get lost in that equation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O no, God cannot be lost. God is the One Movie Producer, > the > > > > > Unmoved Mover, the Central Sun, the One Awareness. What we > are > > > > > experiencing now is God in action. > > > > > > > > > > Look at the computer monitor in front of you. It exists now > and > > > only > > > > > now. The computer monitor has not been manufactured by > people in > > > some > > > > > factory. There are no people. :-) All " stuff " is Maya! The > > > computer > > > > > monitor in front of you is " only " a part of the 3D > holographic > > > Kosmic > > > > > Movie called the physical universe. > > > > > > > > > > As the little kid said in the Matrix movie: " There is no > spoon " > > > > > > > > > > The Matrix movie has not been produced and directed in the > past, > > > it is > > > > > produced NOW and only now in the " time " of zero seconds by > the > > > One > > > > > Movie Producer. And " The One Movie " is the physical > universe. All > > > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus > is > > > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are > one " > > > > > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every > single > > > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by > moment. > > > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to > produce > > > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the > > > Wachowski > > > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is > only > > > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the > ENTIRE > > > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang > to > > > the > > > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the > > > entire > > > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains > the > > > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire > history > > > > record of the universe. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > God create something....a movie....or whatever...? > > > > > > > > > maybe with the energy of God....one can dream about movies.....or > > > whatever imagination..... > > > the only one " who " is responsible for the " illusory " movie is the > ego > > > mind......... > > > don't think that God is responsible for anything what happen > in " our " > > > dreams.... > > > > > > when the dream end....there is God remaining.....means, awareness > of > > > all the dreamed...past....future.....dimensions....or whatever > > > > > > we should watch the movie....yes...why not....let's do it with > > > consciousness....of the real energy behind...... > > > > > > without light....no movie..... > > > > > > Regards and love > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > I meant by the " movie " everything. From the blood that your heart > > pumps, to your thoughts and emotions, to the computer monitor in > front > > of you, to the sun, the birds, the stars... > > > > al. > > sure.... " everything " is encluded in the imagination of this > your " movie " perception....... > > This movie...is God.......if one " see " all the details.....there is > no more " movie " ....but only God..... > creation of whatever.....never realy happened > > Regards and love > > Marc > > > Yes, that is what I meant. And nothing ever happened, because the past, all of it, is created NOW. al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:17:43 PM Pacific Standard > > Time, > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:25:16 PM Pacific > Standard > > > > Time, > > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic > > > > projection. A > > > > > very > > > > > > > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part > > > > contains > > > > > some > > > > > > > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can > perhaps > > > > > someday be > > > > > > > able to alter this projection called the body into a > > younger > > > > > body, or > > > > > > > into something else, or into an older body too for > that > > > > matter. A > > > > > > > holographic projection cannot die, it is just > > > > pure " information " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did God get lost in that equation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O no, God cannot be lost. God is the One Movie > Producer, > > the > > > > > > Unmoved Mover, the Central Sun, the One Awareness. What > we > > are > > > > > > experiencing now is God in action. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the computer monitor in front of you. It exists > now > > and > > > > only > > > > > > now. The computer monitor has not been manufactured by > > people in > > > > some > > > > > > factory. There are no people. :-) All " stuff " is Maya! > The > > > > computer > > > > > > monitor in front of you is " only " a part of the 3D > > holographic > > > > Kosmic > > > > > > Movie called the physical universe. > > > > > > > > > > > > As the little kid said in the Matrix movie: " There is no > > spoon " > > > > > > > > > > > > The Matrix movie has not been produced and directed in > the > > past, > > > > it is > > > > > > produced NOW and only now in the " time " of zero seconds > by > > the > > > > One > > > > > > Movie Producer. And " The One Movie " is the physical > > universe. All > > > > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because > Jesus > > is > > > > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father > are > > one " > > > > > > > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can > be > > > > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize > every > > single > > > > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by > > moment. > > > > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in > the > > > > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to > > produce > > > > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > > > > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the > > > > Wachowski > > > > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this > is > > only > > > > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the > > ENTIRE > > > > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big > Bang > > to > > > > the > > > > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates > the > > > > entire > > > > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie > contains > > the > > > > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire > > history > > > > > record of the universe. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > God create something....a movie....or whatever...? > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe with the energy of God....one can dream about > movies.....or > > > > whatever imagination..... > > > > the only one " who " is responsible for the " illusory " movie is > the > > ego > > > > mind......... > > > > don't think that God is responsible for anything what happen > > in " our " > > > > dreams.... > > > > > > > > when the dream end....there is God remaining.....means, > awareness > > of > > > > all the dreamed...past....future.....dimensions....or whatever > > > > > > > > we should watch the movie....yes...why not....let's do it with > > > > consciousness....of the real energy behind...... > > > > > > > > without light....no movie..... > > > > > > > > Regards and love > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant by the " movie " everything. From the blood that your heart > > > pumps, to your thoughts and emotions, to the computer monitor in > > front > > > of you, to the sun, the birds, the stars... > > > > > > al. > > > > sure.... " everything " is encluded in the imagination of this > > your " movie " perception....... > > > > This movie...is God.......if one " see " all the details.....there > is > > no more " movie " ....but only God..... > > creation of whatever.....never realy happened > > > > Regards and love > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Yes, that is what I meant. And nothing ever happened, because the > past, all of it, is created NOW. > > al. the past is the memory....which is deleted by the Now..... a new past is created every time one is in Now.... someone who remain in the Now....is no more " someone " ....and so, this " new someone " never had any past........ Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:17:43 PM Pacific Standard > Time, > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:25:16 PM Pacific Standard > > > Time, > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic > > > projection. A > > > > very > > > > > > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part > > > contains > > > > some > > > > > > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can perhaps > > > > someday be > > > > > > able to alter this projection called the body into a > younger > > > > body, or > > > > > > into something else, or into an older body too for that > > > matter. A > > > > > > holographic projection cannot die, it is just > > > pure " information " . > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did God get lost in that equation? > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O no, God cannot be lost. God is the One Movie Producer, > the > > > > > Unmoved Mover, the Central Sun, the One Awareness. What we > are > > > > > experiencing now is God in action. > > > > > > > > > > Look at the computer monitor in front of you. It exists now > and > > > only > > > > > now. The computer monitor has not been manufactured by > people in > > > some > > > > > factory. There are no people. :-) All " stuff " is Maya! The > > > computer > > > > > monitor in front of you is " only " a part of the 3D > holographic > > > Kosmic > > > > > Movie called the physical universe. > > > > > > > > > > As the little kid said in the Matrix movie: " There is no > spoon " > > > > > > > > > > The Matrix movie has not been produced and directed in the > past, > > > it is > > > > > produced NOW and only now in the " time " of zero seconds by > the > > > One > > > > > Movie Producer. And " The One Movie " is the physical > universe. All > > > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus > is > > > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are > one " > > > > > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every > single > > > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by > moment. > > > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to > produce > > > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the > > > Wachowski > > > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is > only > > > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the > ENTIRE > > > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang > to > > > the > > > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the > > > entire > > > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains > the > > > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire > history > > > > record of the universe. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > God create something....a movie....or whatever...? > > > > > > > > > maybe with the energy of God....one can dream about movies.....or > > > whatever imagination..... > > > the only one " who " is responsible for the " illusory " movie is the > ego > > > mind......... > > > don't think that God is responsible for anything what happen > in " our " > > > dreams.... > > > > > > when the dream end....there is God remaining.....means, awareness > of > > > all the dreamed...past....future.....dimensions....or whatever > > > > > > we should watch the movie....yes...why not....let's do it with > > > consciousness....of the real energy behind...... > > > > > > without light....no movie..... > > > > > > Regards and love > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > I meant by the " movie " everything. From the blood that your heart > > pumps, to your thoughts and emotions, to the computer monitor in > front > > of you, to the sun, the birds, the stars... > > > > al. > > sure.... " everything " is encluded in the imagination of this > your " movie " perception....... > > This movie...is God.......if one " see " all the details.....there is > no more " movie " ....but only God..... > creation of whatever.....never realy happened > > Regards and love > > Marc > > > Even 'god' is part of the movie. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > ADHHUB@A... > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 31, 2005 12:28 AM > Re: Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:07:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, > anders_lindman writes: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:02:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > Yes, maybe intuition is a link between thinking based of past memories > > and novelty. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > What does " novelty " mean in this context? > > > > Phil > > > > When we compare a thought with our existing memory, we can see if the > thought has some new information or not in it. If I suddenly remember > that I have to pay my bills, then that thought has no or very little > novelty. If I have a thought that makes me solve a problem I have been > thinking about for a while, then that thought can be said to bring > some new insight, some novelty. > > al. > > That is called a paradigm, a new thought form, an evolution of thinking, if you will. All advances have been the result > of stepping out of the box, and entering a paradigm heretofore unknown. > Ana > > > > > Oh, okay. Thanks. > I agree then. > > Phil > " You " are nothing other then the box......Nothing can step outside of itself. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > ADHHUB@A... > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 31, 2005 2:05 AM > Re: Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > the Movie all by yourself. > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > record of the universe. > > al. > > > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > Phil > > > Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and 'You " , it sounds like confusion, > unless we are into the process of deconstructing... > > Ana > That,,,,,which never was,,,,,,cannot be taken apart. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:17:43 PM Pacific Standard > > Time, > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 6:25:16 PM Pacific Standard > > > > Time, > > > > > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My hope is that my body is " just " a 3D holographic > > > > projection. A > > > > > very > > > > > > > advanced projection, because in a hologram, every part > > > > contains > > > > > some > > > > > > > version of the whole. If true, it means that I can perhaps > > > > > someday be > > > > > > > able to alter this projection called the body into a > > younger > > > > > body, or > > > > > > > into something else, or into an older body too for that > > > > matter. A > > > > > > > holographic projection cannot die, it is just > > > > pure " information " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did God get lost in that equation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > O no, God cannot be lost. God is the One Movie Producer, > > the > > > > > > Unmoved Mover, the Central Sun, the One Awareness. What we > > are > > > > > > experiencing now is God in action. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the computer monitor in front of you. It exists now > > and > > > > only > > > > > > now. The computer monitor has not been manufactured by > > people in > > > > some > > > > > > factory. There are no people. :-) All " stuff " is Maya! The > > > > computer > > > > > > monitor in front of you is " only " a part of the 3D > > holographic > > > > Kosmic > > > > > > Movie called the physical universe. > > > > > > > > > > > > As the little kid said in the Matrix movie: " There is no > > spoon " > > > > > > > > > > > > The Matrix movie has not been produced and directed in the > > past, > > > > it is > > > > > > produced NOW and only now in the " time " of zero seconds by > > the > > > > One > > > > > > Movie Producer. And " The One Movie " is the physical > > universe. All > > > > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus > > is > > > > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are > > one " > > > > > > > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > > > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every > > single > > > > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by > > moment. > > > > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > > > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to > > produce > > > > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > > > > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the > > > > Wachowski > > > > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is > > only > > > > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the > > ENTIRE > > > > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang > > to > > > > the > > > > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the > > > > entire > > > > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains > > the > > > > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire > > history > > > > > record of the universe. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > God create something....a movie....or whatever...? > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe with the energy of God....one can dream about movies.....or > > > > whatever imagination..... > > > > the only one " who " is responsible for the " illusory " movie is the > > ego > > > > mind......... > > > > don't think that God is responsible for anything what happen > > in " our " > > > > dreams.... > > > > > > > > when the dream end....there is God remaining.....means, awareness > > of > > > > all the dreamed...past....future.....dimensions....or whatever > > > > > > > > we should watch the movie....yes...why not....let's do it with > > > > consciousness....of the real energy behind...... > > > > > > > > without light....no movie..... > > > > > > > > Regards and love > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > > I meant by the " movie " everything. From the blood that your heart > > > pumps, to your thoughts and emotions, to the computer monitor in > > front > > > of you, to the sun, the birds, the stars... > > > > > > al. > > > > sure.... " everything " is encluded in the imagination of this > > your " movie " perception....... > > > > This movie...is God.......if one " see " all the details.....there is > > no more " movie " ....but only God..... > > creation of whatever.....never realy happened > > > > Regards and love > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > Even 'god' is part of the movie. > > > toombaru if you think so...... so the part of movie which is " God " ....maybe will show you... Regards Marc > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 31, 2005 2:17 AM > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > > record of the universe. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates > > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences > > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > > > Phil > > > > > When the discriminating mind searches within its self for answers to self referential > questions....only further confusion can result. > > > toombaru > > > > the confuser ends in the confusion, eh? > > Ana > > They are the same. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > - > toombaru2004 > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 31, 2005 2:32 AM > Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski > > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the > > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire > > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > > > record of the universe. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God > > creates > > > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our > > very own > > > universe and these universes interact according to fields of > > consciousness, > > > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your > > experiences > > > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > > > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe we are more like facets in God. As a facet, we are the > > entire universe, but all human facets are synchronized into the same > > planetary reality (unless someone takes LSD or something). What we > > need now is for God to kick-start the Gaia Producer (planetary > > consciousness), so that the mess on this planet can be sorted out...... > > .......so it will be a safer place for the delusional identified entity to serve out its allotted > time. > > **************************************************************** > > > Whoever makes a mess....should clean it up. > > toombaru > > > Alrighty then, We're finally all on the same page,..... > > Amen, We are the same page. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > ADHHUB@A... > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, October 31, 2005 2:05 AM > > Re: Re: The Enlightenment Question > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 9:46:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > anders_lindman writes: > > > > > > > > Whew! Thank God God isn't dead. ~ > > > > > > > That's why Jesus said (or, rather, is saying now, because Jesus is > > created now as a part of the One Movie): " I and the Father are one " > > > > It is very fortunate that God is producing the movie. We can be > > co-directors, but ultimately, it is God who materialize every single > > quark in the universe with laser-sharp precision, moment by moment. > > Every single particle is connected to all other particles in the > > universe. It's a very, very advanced movie. So don't try to produce > > the Movie all by yourself. > > > > As in the example of the Matrix move. Isn't it true that the Wachowski > > brothers directed this movie some years ago? Yes, but this is only > > true from a limited perspective. The full truth is that the ENTIRE > > universe INCLUDING the entire history record from the Big Bang to the > > present moment comes into being INSTANTLY. So God, creates the entire > > One Movie in zero " seconds " in the now, and that movie contains the > > Wachowski brothers making the Matrix movie and the entire history > > record of the universe. > > > > al. > > > > > > > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates > > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences > > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > > > Phil > > > > > > Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and 'You " , it > sounds like confusion, > > unless we are into the process of deconstructing... > > > > Ana > > > > > That,,,,,which never was,,,,,,cannot be taken apart. > > > toombaru > ....true the movie (dream) can be deleted...at any time.... this " time " maybe is a whole process....depending the lenght of the movie....memorized....in an ego-mind an ego-mind never realy existed.....this is the real message of the long.......movie......called life God project this " movie " constantly....at every moment....for infinite times..... some are watching in calmness.....some are trapped in illusion....and take the movie for real a few words....without real meaning.....means no need to " take them apart " ....because they " never were " Regards Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: > You selectively believe the words that flow only through the 'enlightened > masters' that > coincide with your own misconceptions. > > The master tells a student that the Self is everything and nothing. > > The student takes this literally....and feels quite comfortable in its own > imagined vastness. > > > toombaru > > > > You do? > Then maybe you should consider that the ego will not be able to project > itself into the Absolute. There will be no individual to experience this. Sorry > bout that. > > Phil Oh..........you were thinking that the 'ego' actually exists. Now I understand your confusion. toombaru Double timed in quick time, sidestepped in two steps.. confused to exclude, ego there go, ergo I go. :-0 Hehe. Yer gooood. hehe, I know bs ;-) I know you do.........and so much more. The wonderment is that so few can distract themselves from their fixation on their own lines to read between yours, or to follow the silver chord from Self to Self to notice the one willing to love deeply enough to ignore ignorance and bask in the glow of summers bright while surrounded by winter's chill. Namaste, Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God creates a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your experiences are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? Phil Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and 'You " , it sounds like confusion, unless we are into the process of deconstructing... Ana Yes, that's why I couldn't say it the way I see it. There are several 'individuals' here who are determined to bludgeon the self into nonexistence, and are terrified of the prospect of 'being' everything and have opted for nothing. But you are correct. Compromise is not in the interest of Truth, and so there it is. " Be still, and know that you are God " Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 * Thanks for the discussion, Phil. .... I may engage again later on. Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/30/2005 5:33:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, > asimpjoy@e... writes: > > * There is always the bad and the good, > the pleasure and the pain, as you cannot > have one without the other, while living > from a dualistic perspective? > > > > In the long term, there will always be a balance because you create the > duality and place the fulcrum on which it's balanced. > > * Yes. That reminds me about you saying > something about having no control over > your experiences. > ... What do you mean by that, because it > seems I DO have SOME control, and you are > saying it is just an illusion? How does that work? > > As a dream character, the human cannot control the dream, since it is itself > dreamed. There is no " I " present anywhere within the dreamscape any more > than there is in your nightly dreams. Consciousness will dream a dream of > control or a dream of loss of control. This is an outpicturing of awareness rather > than a choosing of dream content, and so even consciousness does not > 'control' the dream events as such. > > > > P: This awareness doesn't come about by hearing somebody > > talk about it because it's not a concept. However, by > > focussing attention on the idea and releasing thoughts > > about it, and just 'looking' to see if it's true, a genuine > > realization might come about outside of the thinkingness > > of mind. > > * Yes, but how is 'awareness' experienced > to be different than just the body/brain > perception of the physical organism. > > The product of mentation is a conclusion, rationally derived by organizing > memory components in a logical order. Awareness is initially experienced as a > knowing that occurs all at once, as a 'flash of insight'. I'm sure you've > experienced this, although you may not have noticed it. As mentioned, the mind > immediately 'kicks in' and conceptualizes that insight, which requires a moment > of time. Ego will then take credit for the realization and imagine that it > resulted from the thinking process, while actually it occurred 'between' the > thoughts and in spite of them. > > > > P: The same thing can be done with many other ideas. The > > possibility of surrendering all struggle and still being > > able to survive can be looked at. > > * Yes, but ALL struggle? Don't you mean > all psychological struggle of thought as > desire/fear. This is a little ambiguous, > because I 'justify' the struggle and the > concern about the work that I am required > to do to earn a living. I think about it, > and I may worry about it, and there is a > stress and hyper-vigilance, etc. > ... It appears this is a factor that > prevents surrender, and then, of course, I > also see the reluctance to ego-death, and > so surrender does not come 'in total', but > in many other littler things it does. > > All struggle is psychological struggle. It has nothing to do with doingness. > Doing can be done with or without struggle. Psychological struggle does not > cause things to be done and in fact interferes with the efficiency of any > doing process. This focus of consciousness also creates more events in the dream > that seemingly need to be struggled with. > There are many 'levels' of surrender. It ends when the dream ends. > > > > * That makes sense, intellectually, and at > times perhaps there may be a glimpse, but on > the whole the identification with the body is > too 'strong', and the 'feeling, that I am the > body persists? > > It persists here too because the senses keep reflecting that, but it can be > weakened dramatically by looking at the truth of the matter. > > > > > * I am consciousness taking the form of > a human, which is really the 'objective' > awareness looking to expand itself back > to pure subjective awareness? > ... The wholeness of the Self is contained > in the very awareness content of conscious- > ness. Am I getting this right. I am looking > and saying it as it appears to me up to the > level of my understanding. > > There ya go. > Are you seeing it in your awareness or in your thoughts? > > > > > P: Yes, it all 'happens' within consciousness. The > > distinction is just conceptual, but the point is that > > the dream character never causes anything to occur, > > but is rather 'caused'. > > * '... the dream character never causes > anything to occur ...'. Well, Doesn't it > manipulate 'dream elements' within the, > and including itself? What distinction is > only 'conceptual'. > > The conceptual distinction is that things 'occur' in the dreamscape and that > the dream is 'occurring' in consciousness. Everything occurs within > consciousness. > > Again, dream characters can't 'do' anything. They have no independent > volition any more than a cartoon character in an animated film. > > > * Interesting. I see. So, consciousness > 'imagines' via 'thought', that it is an > individualized human. So, this is what > you mean when you say the dream character > does not cause anything to occur, it is > still only consciousness doing this, from > its position of objectified awareness? > > Yes, although it should be mentioned that thought is a dream character thing > only. Consciousness does not think. It has no mechanism by which to do this, > no time in which to do it, and no need for it. Consciousness is simply aware > of that which it is aware. The dream is the outpicturing of this awareness > 'content'. > > > > P: The human itself is of no consequence. > > * Well, that's easy to say and even > intellectually understand, but isn't > it also important to 'realize' it. I > may agree the human is of no consequence, > but I don't actually 'feel' that way, > and I am not able to live that way. > > Yeah, I meant within the context of our concepts here. It plays no actual > role in causing anything to occur. It's a little like a lunar rover that > provides for perception/ experience/ memory/ thought processing. That's all. > > > > > > P: What's 'listening' is consciousness and what's > > becoming aware is consciousness. If this is realized > > (within consciousness) then the human stops trying to > > do anything in the dream and the focus (again within > > consciousness) is turned on itself to notice it's own > > contents. This 'results' in new awareness of that > > content, which is awareness itself. > > * Again, very well said. It makes sense. > ... The critical threshold whereby the shift > of focus will occur in its own 'time' then, > and, other than, that there is nothing that > can be done? > > Positioned as consciousness, it is indeed possible to turn one's focus on > the content of awareness and expand that awareness. It must be clear that it is > not the human that is doing this, or all that will be found is the thought > content of mind. > > However, it is not your human choice to do this, because the human has no > choice. It is also not the choice of consciousness to do this or you would be > able to do that, since you are that consciousness. So, what this means is that > awareness must progress to the point where the expanded content begins to > cause the focus to be removed from the illusion and turned on itself. This > awareness will then be outpictured as a dream in which this is occurring. > > The paradox is that you, as consciousness, cause your own awareness of Self > to occur, but you have no means by which to alter how that occurs. In this > way, it can be said that the totality of awareness itself determines your > evolution, and you're just along for the ride and might as well enjoy the scenery. > Hehe. However, you may want to pay attention to your own dream. (Says the > other dream character) > > > > * How are dualities self-created? I have > to choose to do this task or that one in > determining how to manage my time and my > business obligations, for example. > ... Help me to understand the practicality > in this way of 'seeing/action' while living > in modern society. > > Well, let's start with the larger picture first. The dream experience is a > manifestation of limitation, and the experience of limitation brings with it a > sense of lack which seeks wholeness. This sense is what drives the whole > process of the expansion of awareness. It also results in a feeling of need. The > mind examines this need and seeks ways of fulfilling it, which is what > thinking is all about. In one way or another, thought is being used to fulfill a > desire. > > In this process, it begins to identify and name all the dream objects so > that it can determine what might fulfill these desires and what won't. This is > the creation of duality. There's good/bad, safe/unsafe, beautiful/ugly, > pleasure/pain, happy/unhappy, etc. There's nothing intrinsically dualistic about > anything until we define it in opposite polarities according to how well it > might fulfill our desires. > > Since the dreamscape is created by our focus of consciousness, and we > necessarily define happy against the opposite perception of unhappy, we bring both > into our perception. If we succeed in tipping the balance of duality in favor > of the happy polarity, we find that this doesn't eliminate the desire > because the desire originates in our original longing for wholeness rather than in > the pleasures of the illusion, and so we move our balance point for the > duality to our present circumstances and normalize to that experience. We then > repeat the process by redefining what would be pleasurable and what would be > unpleasureable and do it all over again,........ until we realize it isn't > working. > > > ... The problem of choice seems to be > one of surrender and spontaneity? The > survival of 'the me' seems tenacious. > What is holding one? Why does ignorance > persist? > > As far as consciousness knows, that of which 'it' is aware is all that > exists. Everything in the self created experience naturally demonstrates this to > be true, even though it isn't true. When the possibility of something more is > considered by mind, it's just a concept and can't be experienced until > awareness increases. This concept also threatens our security that we've worked so > hard to establish, along with our identity of self. These are all powerful > barriers to realization. > > The truth is that, while we consciously believe we want to awaken, we > unconsciously are terrified of it, and so we hold our denial in place. This denial > is the thinest of veils that can keep awakening from occurring for many > lifetimes. > * It is a 'negation' of 'wrong focus', > and then what always there, appears? > > Yup. > > > P: Thanks. It's fun and I appreciate your kindness. > > You're right that the words and concepts are a serious > > limitation. That's why it's necessary to look for the > > truth of it within your field of awareness rather than > > your mind. > > * '... mind ...' Do you mean my 'thoughts'? > > yup. > > > * 'Thinking', I understand, but `perception' > and `experience', I don't understand. > ... Does it means that background of silent > awareness is the `totality' of one's `focus'? > > > Perception is a way of talking about the sensory data processing that > 'occurs' in mind. This results in our experiences and is also heavily filtered by > our experience. To me, they're all dream processes and so don't really > distinguish themselves in a meaningful way in the context of the dream. Limited > awareness, creation and perception are the same. > > * Yes, individualized consciousness is > the original dreamer, which them dreams > a separate dreamer within the dream? )) > > There's an Edgar Allen Poe quote I like: > " All you see and seem is but a dream within a dream " > > Phil > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 In a message dated 10/31/2005 2:51:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: * Thanks for the discussion, Phil. .... I may engage again later on. You're most welcome. Phil Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God > creates > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your > experiences > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > Phil > > > Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and > 'You " , it sounds like confusion, > unless we are into the process of deconstructing... > > Ana > > > > Yes, that's why I couldn't say it the way I see it. There are several > 'individuals' here who are determined to bludgeon the self into nonexistence, and > are terrified of the prospect of 'being' everything and have opted for > nothing. But you are correct. Compromise is not in the interest of Truth, and so > there it is. > > " Be still, and know that you are God " > > Phil > To know even one thing.........separates the worlds. toombaru Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God > creates > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your > experiences > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > Phil > > > Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and > 'You " , it sounds like confusion, > unless we are into the process of deconstructing... > > Ana > > > > Yes, that's why I couldn't say it the way I see it. There are several > 'individuals' here who are determined to bludgeon the self into nonexistence, and > are terrified of the prospect of 'being' everything and have opted for > nothing. But you are correct. Compromise is not in the interest of Truth, and so > there it is. > > " Be still, and know that you are God " > > Phil yes....there is nobody but 'yourself'....on the path.....except 'God'....who show the way the way to pass from seperation (ego-mind)..........to Oneness in Oneness....in 'God'....there is peace of mind..... to go behind form and change......to be real Self to be aware that you never have been the one...that you had dreamed to be before this does not mean that you become 'nothing'..... but in this emptyness....there is no more 'everything or nothing' it's the peace of being oneSelf..... why caring about 'everything'.....or 'nothing'? you know that whatever you percieve.....you are One with it.... just like after sleep....and wake up in the morning....you know that the dream was One with 'you' Regards Marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 Phil, Are YOU still and do YOU know YOU are God ? Or are you just a big mouth jabbering what he has read before ? A spiritual parrot dressing himself with saintly garments of others who too just have been proud parrots like you ? Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > I can't say it how I see it, but what if I were to tell you that God > creates > a whole universe just for you in every moment? Each of us has our very own > universe and these universes interact according to fields of consciousness, > and it all 'occurs' within a single consciousness. In this way, your > experiences > are the perfection of your own individualized evolution of awareness, > regardless of what 'others' seem to be doing. How does that sound? > > Phil > > > Not quite Phil, as long as there is a separtion between, God creation and > 'You " , it sounds like confusion, > unless we are into the process of deconstructing... > > Ana > > > > Yes, that's why I couldn't say it the way I see it. There are several > 'individuals' here who are determined to bludgeon the self into nonexistence, and > are terrified of the prospect of 'being' everything and have opted for > nothing. But you are correct. Compromise is not in the interest of Truth, and so > there it is. > > " Be still, and know that you are God " > > Phil > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted October 31, 2005 - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Monday, October 31, 2005 3:55 PM Re: The Enlightenment Question In a message dated 10/31/2005 4:25:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: > You selectively believe the words that flow only through the 'enlightened > masters' that > coincide with your own misconceptions. > > The master tells a student that the Self is everything and nothing. > > The student takes this literally....and feels quite comfortable in its own > imagined vastness. > > > toombaru > > > > You do? > Then maybe you should consider that the ego will not be able to project > itself into the Absolute. There will be no individual to experience this. Sorry > bout that. > > Phil Oh..........you were thinking that the 'ego' actually exists. Now I understand your confusion. toombaru Double timed in quick time, sidestepped in two steps.. confused to exclude, ego there go, ergo I go. :-0 Hehe. Yer gooood. hehe, I know bs ;-) I know you do.........and so much more. The wonderment is that so few can distract themselves from their fixation on their own lines to read between yours, or to follow the silver chord from Self to Self to notice the one willing to love deeply enough to ignore ignorance and bask in the glow of summers bright while surrounded by winter's chill. Namaste, Phil A gassho to Phil, a Beloved friend. Thank you. Ana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
