The Ashta Paasha (8 chains)

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

> Here the Sat Raj and Tam have a fight... those forces which are

 

 

 

THANKS TO ALL THE SADHAKAS FOR GREAT SATSANG , I HAVE LEARNED SO

MANY THINGS THANKS TO ALL THE SADHAKAS.

 

 

Sir Ji please enlighten further for the following DOUBTS

 

if Sat fights with tam , it means firstly tam gets weaker and weakar

than finally Tam would finish ( as per your last posting it would

convert to other form here Sat form i suppose ) . How it is

possible that Tam would finish in us . How would we sleep without

Tam .

 

secondaly i suppose Lord Shankar are the Lord of Tamo because we

offer Ganja , Dhatoora ,............................. How Lord

could fight each other ie How it is possible that Lord Shankar would

fight with Lord Brahma or Lord Vishnu ,....................

 

thirdly How Kumbhakarna had both the Gunas simultaneously Satvic and

Tamo . He was sleeping for 6 months and than for one day ...........

and what my personal opinion is that He was a great jnani too Hence

He was Heighly Satvic in nature too . also He got the Moksha . He

never finished Tamo in His system .

 

 

please further enlighten me that How it is possible that Sat Guna

would finish Tamo Guna .

 

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE

RAM ,HARE RAM ,RAM RAM, HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

Shantnu Ji,

 

Thanks for your reply and for giving practical examples. I think I got the

answer of my question and i also want to say one more thing that I will

definitely learn a lot by joining this community and by discussing with all

senior members.

 

Warm regards,

Amit Arora

 

 

 

 

shanracer <no_reply >

 

Amitji, it depends on who the person is.

[Guest guest]

, " jitendra kumar " <jtin_ja wrote:

 

> secondaly i suppose Lord Shankar are the Lord of Tamo because we

> offer Ganja , Dhatoora ,............................. How Lord

> could fight each other ie How it is possible that Lord Shankar would

> fight with Lord Brahma or Lord Vishnu ,....................

 

 

Jitendarji, Brahma Vishnu Mahesh represent the Pure forms of the

gunas, which do not fight with each other:

 

Pure Tamoguna represents stability, peace, strength, like Shankar.

Shankar itself means one who is always in peace.

 

Pure Rajoguna represents Pure Energy, that helps us reach

enlightenment. Thats why Devis like Durga are shown dressed in red, as

well as Hanumanji who wears red langot, as they help us reach

enlightenment by giving us energy to figth negativity.

 

Pure Satoguna is the light of bliss & knowledge, which is what Vishnu

in his role as teacher gives us.

 

As you can see, all 3 are needed. If you only have Satoguna, that will

make you lazy or inactive, as you wont have any energy(Rajoguna) to do

any work. Too much Rajouna will make you hyperactive & easily

tired/angry, as you wont have anu Tamoguna to give you peace & stability.

 

These gunas are wrong only when they invade spaces of others: like

mind is created by Satoguna, yet Rajo & Tamoguna invade it, giving us

either tension or laziness. That doesnt mean the gunas are bad by

themself, but that we have allowed them to invade the space of the mind.

 

I will write more later.

 

with love

Shantnu

[Guest guest]

, aumji <no_reply wrote:

 

Dear Aumji and Shantanuji,

 

Namaste!

 

Way back in 1988 i read some of the Radha Soami books. In that

same thing was printed that it is advantageous to work out your

karmas here on earth rather than astral region as it takes long

long time in astral world to work out your karmas and after millions

or billions of years we have to be born again on earth.

 

In some of my much earlier posts i had also mentioned that many

souls are loitering in the astral world.

 

I also read somewhere that even God's are envious of human birth

and crave for it as it is only in human birth one can attain

salvation.

 

Further i heard that many noble souls in Satya Yuga manipulated

and waited patiently for Kaliyuga to appear so that in shorter

span of time they can attain mukti and to avoid incurring further

karmas took birth as Spastic children.

 

My question is something different.

 

I am wondering why Aumji (meaning Lord) sent the second twin son

to Kerala when he did not want to go. THIS IS AT THE BEGINNING

OF THE ''KALPA''. That is the whole question, at the start of

Kalpa why the second twin was asked to go Kerala (meaning-Earth)?

when he did not want to go.

 

I hope i have made myself clear.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

[Guest guest]

, jaya_sundram <no_reply wrote:

> Dear Shantnu, Is this physical world not wicked ? we do have lot of

> miseries, sufferings and pains here ?

>

> Like a pigeon, we can not close our eyes to the cat and refuse the

> reality of pains and miseries? How do we deal with these as a

sadhaka?

 

It is a relative term. Wickedness pains and sufferings are felt at

a relative stage only.

 

The world is the body of our beloved god, and it can not be wicked

or to be hated.

 

The only pain in this world is the pain of separation from God, all

other pains are grim reflection of the same.

 

Mind creates the feeling for pain and suferings, they dont have

independent existence.

 

A cat eating a pigeon is a pain for bird but a joy for cat...hence

pain and joy are relative terms, not absolute.

 

The world is NO MAYA... it is not a place created for sufferings and

pains. The world is physical / material body of the lord and we learn

to fulfil our material desires and go beyond them here.

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Dear Thiru Ulaganathan,

 

Yes Sir, even in Vedas there is no discrimination practiced in terms

of caste, creed and gender. In fact, Rg.Veda goes a step further and

declares god-ship to 'bad' people too in addition to four classes of

people. It says : pancha janaa mama hotram jushantam / let all the

five groups of people worship me. The five classes of people being -

brahmana, kashatriya, vyshya, shudra and dasyus(thieves, robbers,

murderers:criminals)! In Yajurveda also there is a clear statement

that Brahma, Kshatriya, Vyshya, Shudra, ati shudra and women - all be

initiated to Vedas. Women had vedic rites too : imam mantam patni

patheth / let wife chant this mantra says shrouta sutra. There was

full freedom given to the female/bride to choose her own

husband/groom. Atharveda says : brahmacharyena kanya yuvaanam vindate

patim / after studies(of Veda) bride go in search of husband.

 

Discrimination as it is today came much later for socio-political reasons.

 

Thanks for citing that beautiful poem.

 

Regards,

 

M.S.Thimmappa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

, ulaganathan p <apunathan wrote:

>

> Hari Om!

> For the past few months, I have been reading- say singing aloud in

my own crude way- the hymns of 'Devaram', the wonderful collection of

[Guest guest]

, " spbyoga9 " <spbyoga9 wrote:

>

 

>

> I am wondering why Aumji (meaning Lord) sent the second twin son

> to Kerala when he did not want to go. THIS IS AT THE BEGINNING

> OF THE ''KALPA''. That is the whole question, at the start of

> Kalpa why the second twin was asked to go Kerala (meaning-Earth)?

> when he did not want to go.

>

 

The 2nd son was asked to go because he was a drunk, womaniser, & he

thought these were the only pleasures in life. By sending him far away

where he would face troubles, the father wanted to bring out his

hidden strengths, & to show him all he thought about the world was

wrong, that there was more to the world than just drinking or womanising.

 

But the 2nd son(as per your story), instead of facing his troubles

head on & becoming a man, wimpered like a coward & asked his Daddy to

bring him back. The father did so, as the father never forces anyone

to grow spiritually if they dont want to. But the 2nd son remained

where he was, he never knew there were greater joys than what he was

accustomed to.

 

I hope I have explained it in your own story.

 

In spiritual terms, the father(God) wanted his children, who were

stuck in Astral/Causal worlds, & thought they had reached the summit,

to realise there is a Pure Spirit beyond all duality that lives in

pure bliss(the astral joy is a lot like ours, while causal joy is

still dependent on Satoguna, hence it is still under Prakritis rule).

 

The Bliss of Pure Spirit, however, is unconditioned, un paralleled, &

unlimited- there is nothing like it. One who has felt it is Supreme in

the world. In your story, I can tell the children havent felt that

supreme joy, because someone who had would never complain about coming

to Earth, even in Ghor Kaliyug. Such a Saint would say " God, make me

blind, a leper, a cripple, poor, but dont take your love from me. As

long as I have that, I can escape any problem " .

 

And the 2nd wrong thing about your story is: God doesnt cajole or

trick anyone into coming to Earth. Sorry to say, but God(or rather

Prakriti) isnt that kind. Rather you are thrown down, screaming &

crying. Gandharvas, Yakshas, Apsaras, even powerful Devas, Prakriti

Layas- all are thrown down. There is no reason to convice them or

trick them- they are just thrown down! Thats Natures Law.

 

But all this is old thinking. As Aumji & others have said, I dont

believe in this " thrown down from heaven " theory. Rather I believe in

the Law of evolution: We started as rocks, then became plants, then

animals, finally humans. But some humans( a rare minority) have

realised that even this state is incomplete, that there is something

above us.

 

As long as we are stuck in human thinking, theorising,

intellectualising, we can never hope to go beyond human.

 

with love

shantnu

[Guest guest]

, shanracer <no_reply wrote:

>Dear Shantanuji,

 

Namaste!

 

Thanks for your lucid explanation.

It clears many things.

 

With warm wishes,

 

Sudhakar

HARI OM TAT SAT! Cheers! )

[Guest guest]

Pranam.

 

Wonderfull satsang going on. Thanks every one.

 

Can this be an explanation?

 

God ( Let us name ShivSakthi ), one part Sakthi seperated from Siva,

disintegrated into micro and macro level, there came the universe, upon

the viraha to reunite with shiva, the disintegrated part of sakthi

evoluted, rock and water to single celled living being, to plants,

animals, human, devas, asuras... recycled herself to unite with shiva

again. in this process when one realises he/she is not a seperate, but

a part of sakthi- inturn shivsakthi enjoys the bliss.

So during MAHAPRALAYA, the disintegrated sakthi will unite back with

siva, the ultimate bliss - Shivsakthi.

So no question of me came into human state without my wish, after all

its all sakthi disintegrated.

Few disintegrated sakthi, self realises herself thro any path of

sadhna, few wish to reunite with shiva as a whole sakthi and take

repeated birth even attaining higher astral levels, may be waiting for

MAHAPRALAYA to unite the disintegrated sakthi as a whole and reunite

wih shiva.

 

its just a try. Sorry if iam wrong. Pls correct if so.

 

Luv.

[Guest guest]

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE RAM

 

 

 

> Pure Tamoguna represents stability, peace, strength, like Shankar.

> Shankar itself means one who is always in peace.

>

 

Thanks AUM Sir Ji and Shantanu Sir Ji

 

a great concept has been cleared

 

Thanks a lot .

 

HARE KRISHAN ,HARE KRISHAN ,KRISHAN KRISHAN ,HARE HARE ,HARE RAM, HARE

RAM ,RAM RAM, HARE HARE

[Guest guest]

, " Senthil " <senthil_sym wrote:

>> God ( Let us name ShivSakthi ), one part Sakthi seperated from

Siva,

> disintegrated into micro and macro level, there came the universe,

upon

> the viraha to reunite with shiva, the disintegrated part of sakthi

> evoluted, rock and water to single celled living being, to plants,

 

WONDERFUL!!! This can not be said in more simple words.

 

After Mahapralaya, all the shaktis return to source, alongwith all

the vrittis, all gunas and all individual egos.

 

That z why Mahakali is shown with garland of skulls.... which

represents those souls, which will be brought back on next creation

for further progress spiritually.

 

Jai mahakali

 

Aum

[Guest guest]

Hari Om!

I spoke about God's impartiality, in the context of the discussion on the idea

of God's 'chosen people'.I firmly endorse the view that God has no " chosen

people " . And such an idea of God's chosen people is dangerous and it could be

advanced and is indeed being advanced to justify and sanction all kinds of

unholy acts.

Thanks for appreciating the poem. Incidentally, I would like to share with you

my liking for Bhakti Yoga. While I am a student of Bihar School of Yoga and was

intiated to mantra diksha, by Swami Niranjananda Saraswati. I am practicing

Yoga, as taught in the School. But, much before the initiation, I had been

deeply drawn to the bhakti literature in Tamil language. In my childhood, I

was introduced to " Thiruppavai " , of Andal, one of the 12 alwars (saints of

Vaishnava tradition). I have graduated myself to the reading of Thiruvasagam and

Devaram and some of the Divya Prabhandams in Tamil. G.U.Pope who translated

'Thiruvasagam' into English, spoke richly about the quality of the literature to

move you. Saint Manickavasagar says ' By crying for you, we get You(God). I

cannot help being in tears as I chant the hymns, which these great saints had

sung. They were the weapons in their hands, to drive out the false religions,

from the face of this land.

Some one here had expressed certain dark premontion about the fate that might

fall on the Hindus in India. While I agree with him in that Hinduism in India is

going through a very difficult period and is under severe test of faith, I feel

the anti-dote lies, in strengthening ourselves in our faith. While we have to

assert ourselves in defence our faith, we have to re-dedicate ourselves to the

age-old tradition of bhakti. I am sure, in all parts of India, we have a surfeit

of bhakti literature, sung by Kabir Das, Meera etc,.Singing them individually

and in groups should be encouraged. Bhakti has the capacity to cleanse the heart

and to strengthen us our faith. It has to be a mass-movement. In other words,

bhakti is the answer to the problem that afflicts the Hindu society, now.

I wonder if this discussion about bhakti in this group is out of place. That

takes me to another question. Is Bhakti Yoga and Hath/Raja Yoga anti-thetical to

each other?

Hari Om Tat Sat!

ulaganathan p

 

 

 

Dear Thiru Ulaganathan,

 

Yes Sir, even in Vedas there is no discrimination practiced in terms

of caste, creed and gender. In fact, Rg.Veda goes a step further and

[Guest guest]

> I wonder if this discussion about bhakti in this group is out of

>place. That takes me to another question. Is Bhakti Yoga and

>Hath/Raja Yoga anti-thetical to each other?

 

Dear Ulaganathan,

 

The simple answer is no. Many great Hatha/Raja Yogis have also been

great Bhaktas- like Swmai Shivananda, Yogananda, Satyananda(of Bihar

school of Yoga, from where you took initiation).

 

In fact, its hard, if not impossible to find any Hatha/Raja Yogis who

were also not great bhaktas- if there are any, I havent heard of any,

or they didnt become famous.

 

One example that comes to mind is Totapuri, who taught Ramakrishna

about the Nirguna Brahm, who didnt believe in Bhakti. Yet later on he

too started worshipping Kali(under Ramakrishnas influence) & later

admitted his enlightenment would have been incomplete without it.

 

Raja Yoga is called Integral as it involves Gyan, Bhakti & Karma. Like

one of the main sutra of Yoga is " Ishwar Pranidhan " - Samadhi can be

gained by surrender to God. Since Hatha Yoga is based on Raja Yoga, it

also has similar Sutras.

 

The Integral & wholistic path to God is better than any narrow roads

one may take.

 

with love

Shantnu