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OmHari

Who is a Vaishnav?

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Vaishnav jan to tene kahiye je

PeeD paraayi jaaNe re

One who is a Vaishnav knows and feels the suffering of others

Par-dukhkhe upkaar kare toye

Man abhimaan na aaNe re

Serves others who are in miseries, does not let pride enter his mind

SakaL lok maan sahune vande

Nindaa na kare keni re

Humble to all, in the entire world, does not criticize anyone

Vaach kaachh man nishchaL raakhe

Dhan-dhan janani teni re

Keeps his words, deeds and thoughts pure, blessed is his mother

Sam-drishti ne trishna tyaagi

Par-stree jene maat re

Looks upon all with equality, has renounced passion, honors other women as his mother

Jivha thaki asatya na bole

Par-dhan nav jhaalee haath re

Tongue may get tired, but will not utter untruth, does not covet another’s wealth

Moh-maaya vyaape nahi jene

DriDh vairaagya jena man maan re

Does not succumb to worldly attachments, has mind firmly fixed on renunciation

Ram naam shoon taaLi laagi

SakaL tirath tena tan maan re

Always he is intent on chanting Rama’s name, all holy places of pilgrimage are within him.

VaN-lobhi ne kapaT-rahit chhe

Kaam-krodh nivaarya re

Has conquered passion,avarice and anger

BhaNe Narsaiyon tenu darshan karta

KuL ekoter taarya re

The sight of such a Vaishnav, says Narsaiyon, saves entire family through seventy-one generations

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That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications.

 

We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning.

 

Cheers

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That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications.

 

We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning.

 

Cheers

 

Hmmm.... He does exist but very rarely he takes birth.

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this is a wonderfull song and very inspiring , but i have some practical confusions......

 

 

Vaishnav jan to tene kahiye je

PeeD paraayi jaaNe re

One who is a Vaishnav knows and feels the suffering of others

 

that should mean both material sufferings and spiritual sufferings , right ?

Par-dukhkhe upkaar kare toye

Man abhimaan na aaNe re

 

Serves others who are in miseries, does not let pride enter his mind

 

both material and spiritual miseries i presume ?

 

 

SakaL lok maan sahune vande

Nindaa na kare keni re

 

Humble to all, in the entire world, does not criticize anyone

 

"not criticize anyone " ? many vaishnavas criticize everyone !!:crazy: do they overlook the word 'anyone' ?

 

VaN-lobhi ne kapaT-rahit chhe

Kaam-krodh nivaarya re

 

Has conquered passion,avarice and anger

 

 

anger towards other sampradayas is freely permissible ?

 

 

 

 

clear my doubts...

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The qualities of a Vaishnava described in the song are only how the world may identify a Vaishnav outwardly in material world, and from Gaudiya spiritual point of view, we hear them as always humbly absorbed in service for the love of Hari

Edited by OmHari

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Respected Members,

 

If only people of all sampradayas and religions behave in a manner that is depicted in the song....the world indeed will be a better place. A person should have immense bhakti towards his chosen form of god, at the same time, let people from other faiths, traditions and sampradayas practice what they believe in.

 

Holier-than-thou attitude in some devotees, just adds blemish to the noble faith they are following. Live and let live. Namaste

Edited by kshama
addition of thoughts that just occured to me

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Pranam

 

 

 

That is a stringent set of qualifications. I can safely say there is no human on the planet (or ever was) who meets all these qualifications.

 

We can instead keep it simple and say a Vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu - the dictionary meaning.

 

Cheers

 

These were the ideals of Narsinh Mehta Of Junaghad

weather one can meet these criteria fully or not is beside the point, but one can try emulate them, even if some of them, would go a long way for ones spiritual growth.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

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Pranam

 

 

 

 

These were the ideals of Narsinh Mehta Of Junaghad

weather one can meet these criteria fully or not is beside the point...

 

I think that is the entire point. The title of the thread is "Who is a Vaishnava?". Obviously, for this title to make sense, one who does not meet the criteria laid out by the OP is not a Vaishnava.

 

As an aside, most of these criteria are about morals...and morals are more relevant to a healthy society than to religion. Non-Vaishnavas & atheists have to be moral too, unless they desire anarchy. And as morals apply to all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, I would like to keep the differentiating line clear. They do not have anything to do with Vaishnavism specifically or with any one other brand of religion.

 

Cheers

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The qualities of a Vaishnava described in the song are only how the world may identify a Vaishnav outwardly in material world, and from Gaudiya spiritual point of view, we hear them as always humbly absorbed in service for the love of Hari

 

true but my doubts lies elsewhere !

 

i'll try to summarise them again --

 

1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ??

 

2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

 

 

3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ?

 

i ask these questions because these are most common traits in many vaishnavas !

 

clear my doubts...

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i'll try to summarise them again --

 

1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ??

 

2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

 

 

3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ?

 

 

I thought you also were a vaishnav (by birth ofcourse i dont think that counts.)

But arent you one according to yourself.

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I thought you also were a vaishnav

 

in many ways i am and in a few way i am not !

 

i belong to vaishnav family by birth . i acccept krishna and vishnu as the highest god . i love and adore mahaprabhu and his original sankirtan movement . i believe in naam-mahatmya .

 

however i do not that krishna or vishnu is the exclusive highest god ! i do not believe that liberation can be only granted by krishna . i do not believe that advaitavada is false !

these im sure would fall within the beliefs of a non-vaishnava .

 

anyways that doesnt clear the doubts that i am speaking of ......

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in many ways i am and in a few way i am not !

 

i belong to vaishnav family by birth . i acccept krishna and vishnu as the highest god . i love and adore mahaprabhu and his original sankirtan movement . i believe in naam-mahatmya .

 

however i do not that krishna or vishnu is the exclusive highest god ! i do not believe that liberation can be only granted by krishna . i do not believe that advaitavada is false !

these im sure would fall within the beliefs of a non-vaishnava .

 

anyways that doesnt clear the doubts that i am speaking of ......

You only made me happy sambya.

Why then the shaktism.

Other demigods are just manifestaions o raspects of vishnu.Im not saying just like that but great acharyas have accepted only vishnu.What explaantion can you give.Even adi shanakracharya in his commentary to vishnu sahasranam has identified vishnu as brahm.He hasnt given this status to durga or anyone else.Actually i read a story where shakts have abused adi shnakaracharya also.I read a story that adi sh. goes to argue with shakts to kashmir.On the way he gets sick,has fever and becomes motionless.Then a nine year old girl comes to him and says that see without shakti you are useless and cant do anything.And thus shaktism is reigned supreme in this way.Adi shanakracharya loses and composes some hym or prayer.

jai maa durga

Edited by sant

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1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ??

 

2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

 

3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ?

 

 

"feeling for sufferings of others" material and spiritual causes a Vaishnava to be dedicated to the path of sadhana [versus taking up the duties of rectifying the world's personal persuits] True World leaders must make provisions to cultivate vaishnava advisors.

 

"does not criticize anyone" means the sadhaka must stay aloof. [versus wannabe scholars dialoguing on internet forums]. A vaishnava's chasticment is nectar! Ask Kesiserose--- he gets unlimitedly enlivened by such chasticment.

 

"has conquered passion,avarice and anger" is the due course for any transcendentalist [versus materail society's Entertainment and Reportage Industrialists who send their kids to Ivy League Schools from the profits made by publicising the worlds woes---Vaishnavas are not war mongers or profiteers]

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Why then the shaktism.

Other demigods are just manifestaions o raspects of vishnu.Im not saying just like that but great acharyas have accepted only vishnu.What explaantion can you give.Even adi shanakracharya in his commentary to vishnu sahasranam has identified vishnu as brahm.He hasnt given this status to durga or anyone else.

 

 

com'on now !! not again !

 

try and help to me to clear the doubts instead !

 

 

to the OP--

 

Im waiting ... .......... any answers ?

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Im not a vaishnav

BUt still if you want answerss then

1--does "feeling for sufferings of others" include in its scope both material and spiritual sufferings or it leaves the foodless to die in the streets by blaming them for their bad karma ??

ans.yes he does ,a saintly man in my opinion will help others in trouble.

2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

ans.criticism is criticism.But if others are fighting with you then due to the hurt someone has caused to you or you feel hurt by reading someones philsoosphy then sometimes you tend to criticise.

 

3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ?

 

anger is in the mode of ignorance but sometimes we do get angry and it may be right.IM saying it because even mahapurush have gotten angry.But anger is in the mode of ignorance.

Edited by sant

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2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

 

 

I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs.

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I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs.

 

 

 

even i said the same thing.

Youre going to criticise something which you think is wrong or youre going to find fault against someone whom you dont beleive is right.

Ive learnt from someone that if you envy someone then its most likely youl criticise him.

Edited by sant

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I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs.

 

Exactly. The song is in Gujarati and in English "Ninda" would translate into criticism as what you just described. It doesnt refer to disagreement or debate

 

Thank you,

Haribol

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true but my doubts lies elsewhere !

 

2--when it is mentioned that a vaishnav "does not criticize anyone" does it come with exceptions like shaktas , shaivas , ganapatyas , suryas , advaitists ?

 

My ans: I thought all those debates on Tattva (principal ) were the transcendental pastimes of the Maha Yogis and Devotees, for our entertainment and education. :)

 

 

3-- when it is said that a vaishnav "has conquered passion,avarice and anger" does it exclude anger towards advaitists and others sects( anger proper , im not talking of ordinary difference of opinion) ?

 

My ans: there is spiritual anger and 'righteous anger'. What you are refering to sounds like righteous anger. Or Lila anger , or Love-for-one's-Guru-anger

 

i ask these questions because these are most common traits in many vaishnavas !

 

My qn to you : Is that statement a part of your Lila ? :)

 

 

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Pranam

 

 

I think that is the entire point. The title of the thread is "Who is a Vaishnava?". Obviously, for this title to make sense, one who does not meet the criteria laid out by the OP is not a Vaishnava.

 

Sure, that is if you take the literal meaning but weather Narsinh Mehta expected this for someone who is on the first rung of the ladder on the path of bhakti would be subject of speculation.

He had unflinching faith for lord Krishna if his story is anything to go by and his 100ds of bhajans are testimony of his life.

like Tulsidas, Mira etc he did not form any institute or seek any following yet their life story and bhajans are great inspiration to millions of bhakta of all denomination of Hindus.

Point here is these ideals are for anyone to follow, as you rightly point out, it certainly would make better world, what to speak of this forum.

 

 

 

As an aside, most of these criteria are about morals...and morals are more relevant to a healthy society than to religion. Non-Vaishnavas & atheists have to be moral too, unless they desire anarchy. And as morals apply to all people, regardless of their religious beliefs, I would like to keep the differentiating line clear. They do not have anything to do with Vaishnavism specifically or with any one other brand of religion.

 

Agreed but since he saw his world from Krishna point of view it was natural to apply vaishnav perspective , fortunately for us Gujarati ‘s Vishnu/Shiva rivalry never been so intense as in other parts of Bharat.

 

Infect Narsinh Mehta was granted Krishna Darsan by dint of him worshiping Lord Shiva.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

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I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs.

 

well, for most vaishnavas who criticize , it doesnt restrict itself to ordinary disagreement or debate . invariably it turns to ninda or criticism out of envy !

 

but anyways , we have grown used to it.........:ponder:

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I believe the criticism referred to here is actually needless fault finding, based on envy. It doesnt refer to disagreeing, or debating other beliefs.

 

well , for most vaishnavas who criticize , it doesnt restrict itself to mere disagreement or debate . invariably it turns to ninda or criticism out of envy.

 

but anyways , i guess we've all grown used to it.................:ponder:

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