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The Four Vedas And Their Sub Divisions

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What difference does it make? He was ready to kill his own son. What sort of God demands that you kill your own son?

 

I don't really know what your point is, other than perhaps this desperate need you have to disagree with me at all times over everything, even when such disagreements find you endorsing ludicrous ideas just to argue.

 

No dear Raghu, i meant that it was an act done out of devotion to the lord.God was just testing abraham and his devotion. There was also no sacrifice done because god beforehand stopped abraham from sacrificing his son.

 

 

The Purushamedha did not involve actual slaughter of humans. Chandu already quoted an explanation describing the symbolic nature of it as a reenactment of the sacrifice of the original Purusha as described in the Rig Veda.

 

 

Does it mean there was no human sacrificed

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I'm not allowed to post links until I reach 15 posts, so I'll try doing it like this:

 

http://www.salagram.net/Dasavatara-page.htm#Sri

 

Just copy and paste the address into your browser and delete the blank spaces.

 

There you will find this quote from verse 9 of the Dasavatara-stotra, which praises Lord Buddha as follows:

 

O Keshava! O Lord of the universe! O Lord Hari, who have assumed the form of Buddha! All glories to You! O Buddha of compassionate heart, you decry the slaughtering of poor animals
performed according to the rules of Vedic sacrifice
.

 

 

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There is nothing in this article about Madhvacharya criticizing the Ashvamedha.

 

In fact, there is:

 

A quotation of the Cārvāka from Madhavacharya's Sarva-Darsana-Sangraha states:

 

 

"The three authors of the Vedas were buffoons, knaves, and demons. All the well-known formulae of the pandits, jarphari, turphari, etc. and all the obscene rites for the queen commanded in Aswamedha, these were invented by buffoons, and so all the various kinds of presents to the priests, while the eating of flesh was similarly commanded by night-prowling demons."

 

This is the source cited for the above quote:

 

Madhavacarya, Sarvadarsana-sangraha, English translation by E. B. Cowell and A. E. Gough, 1904 quoted in Debiprasad Chattopadhyaya (ed.), Carvaka/Lokayata: An Anthology of Source Materials and Some Recent Studies (New Delhi: Indian Council of Philosophical Research, 1990)

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In fact, there is:

 

 

A quotation of the Cārvāka from Madhavacharya's Sarva-Darsana-Sangraha states:

 

"The three authors of the Vedas were buffoons, knaves, and demons. All the well-known formulae of the pandits, jarphari, turphari, etc. and all the obscene rites for the queen commanded in Aswamedha, these were invented by buffoons, and so all the various kinds of presents to the priests, while the eating of flesh was similarly commanded by night-prowling demons."

 

 

This is the source cited for the above quote:

 

Madhavacarya, Sarvadarsana-sangraha, English translation by E. B. Cowell and A. E. Gough, 1904 quoted in Debiprasad Chattopadhyaya (ed.), Carvaka/Lokayata: An Anthology of Source Materials and Some Recent Studies (New Delhi: Indian Council of Philosophical Research, 1990)

 

As we have already stated, this offensive quote is actually from the atheistic Carvaka. Madhva was quoting a purva-pakshin which is usually what he does before proceeding to refute him.

 

There is nothing in Madhva's works to effect that he "criticised and didnt accept the ashwamedha yagya process shown in the veda"

 

If the Hare Krishna free thinkers are not satisfied misrepresenting Gaudiya Vaishnavism, may I please request that they leave off of misrepresenting other Vaishnavas?

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If the Hare Krishna free thinkers are not satisfied misrepresenting Gaudiya Vaishnavism, may I please request that they leave off of misrepresenting other Vaishnavas?

 

This reminds me of their unqiue knowledge of the circumstances around the composition of the Bhaja Govindam. Apparently, Shankara was on his death-bed when he suddenly had a change of heart. Out of this change of heart, he chided his followers as fools and told them to worship Govinda (something he and his followers had never done before). But somehow magically, this is not known to any Advaitins. Only the Hare Krishnas know the real deal.

 

Well, at least they are treading new ground. I have not seen them take this position before. Madhva assigned authorship to the Vedas and called these authors as Buffoons, in spite of his doctrine founded on the work of these buffoons!

 

Incidentally, the Sarva darshana Sangraha was authored by Madhava aka Vidyaranya, an Advaitin. Due to the similar name, it is easy to confuse him with Madhvacharya aka Ananda Thirtha. For those who cannot read simple english, this does not mean Vidyaranya wrote that the Vedas were authored by buffoons, either. This also makes me curious about the original sanskrit which translates to Buffoon. The most well known Charvaka literature is the Brihaspati sutras which are now lost, but supposedly authored in the BCs. I find it hard to believe there were buffoons in India during that period.

 

Cheers

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As we have already stated, this offensive quote is actually from the atheistic Carvaka. Madhva was quoting a purva-pakshin which is usually what he does before proceeding to refute him.

 

There is nothing in Madhva's works to effect that he "criticised and didnt accept the ashwamedha yagya process shown in the veda"

 

If the Hare Krishna free thinkers are not satisfied misrepresenting Gaudiya Vaishnavism, may I please request that they leave off of misrepresenting other Vaishnavas?

 

Thank you for that clarification.

 

I'm not a Vaishnava or "Hare Krishna" myself, I am simply an American who has an interest in religions of all kinds and I'm trying to clarify my own poor understanding of these issues, hence my decision to post my questions on this forum. I very much appreciate your answers and your feedback.

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If the Hare Krishna free thinkers are not satisfied misrepresenting Gaudiya Vaishnavism, may I please request that they leave off of misrepresenting other Vaishnavas?

 

Whatever it is im not a hare krishna so dont spoil there name for my error.

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This reminds me of their unqiue knowledge of the circumstances around the composition of the Bhaja Govindam. Apparently, Shankara was on his death-bed when he suddenly had a change of heart. Out of this change of heart, he chided his followers as fools and told them to worship Govinda (something he and his followers had never done before). But somehow magically, this is not known to any Advaitins. Only the Hare Krishnas know the real deal.

 

Well, at least they are treading new ground. I have not seen them take this position before. Madhva assigned authorship to the Vedas and called these authors as Buffoons, in spite of his doctrine founded on the work of these buffoons!

 

And Madhva also considers Shiva to be God. Why? Because Gaudiyas say Shiva is God. So Madhva must believe that also. No evidence from Madhva's writings will be sufficient to refute that sort of confused thinking.

 

 

Incidentally, the Sarva darshana Sangraha was authored by Madhava aka Vidyaranya, an Advaitin. Due to the similar name, it is easy to confuse him with Madhvacharya aka Ananda Thirtha.

 

Quite right - that was mAdhvAcharya, not madhvAchArya.

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If someone somewhere in the world needs to have knowledge about the Vedas ---where do they Go to learn about the most authentic persons & places to learn the Vedas? University Professors? Goverment Commodants? Social Workers?

 

The answer: The Hare Krsihnas and or ISKCON.

 

You are welcomed anytime you can escape your prior commitments.

 

tell them bhaktajan sent you,

Bhaktajan

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If someone somewhere in the world needs to have knowledge about the Vedas ---where do they Go to learn about the most authentic persons & places to learn the Vedas? University Professors? Goverment Commodants? Social Workers?

 

Here's a radical thought. Why not go to the acharyas of the Vedanta traditions who still study and recite the Vedas?

 

 

The answer: The Hare Krsihnas and or ISKCON.

 

You are welcomed anytime you can escape your prior commitments.

 

tell them bhaktajan sent you,

Bhaktajan

 

That would be quite an accomplishment, learning the Vedas from people who do not study or teach the Vedas.

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Why not go to the acharyas of the Vedanta traditions who still study and recite the Vedas?

 

TAXI!

 

 

 

 

That would be quite an accomplishment, learning the Vedas from people who do not study or teach the Vedas.

 

OK, I accept -- what you recommend --if you say so!

 

But it is easier to learn from Hare Krishnas at a Hare Krishna Temple nearest you . . . you know why? Because I, Bhaktajan, recommend it as the best.

 

always striving for the best recommendations,

Bhaktajan

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It is easier to learn from your next door neighbor. But if what you want to learn is something that your next-door neighbor does not know, then there is no point going to your next-door neighbor simply because he is close.

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http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

 

Scriptures, vedas

 

In Vedic culture the available body of knowledge comes from the revealed scriptures. The scriptures are mainly of two categories: sruti and smrti. Sruti refers to the four Vedas and they were originally received by Brahma from the Supreme Lord, Krsna. The smrtis are the literature compiled by self-realized sages based on their realizations of the sruti. Sruti is composed in Vedic Sanskrit and smrtis in laukika Sanskrit. There are some basic differences between these two types of Sanskrit. In Vedic Sanskrit the words have accent, akin to notes in music, and a word's meaning can change drastically simply by changing the accent of its letters. Therefore these words have to be heard properly from the guru in disciplic succession and hence Vedas are called sruti (lit. hearing). Nobody has the authority to change even a single syllable of the sruti. They are passed on from one age to another. Sometimes some parts of srutis get lost due to break in disciplic succession. Then they are again heard in trance by great sages called rsis. Rsi means a seer, or one who sees the Vedic texts. He hears it in trance and realizes its meaning. The Vedic Sanskrit has its own grammar and it is used only in the Vedas. No new book can be composed in Vedic Sanskrit.

Smrtis on the other hand are written in laukika Sanskrit or Sanskrit spoken by people. It does not have accent in its words. Itihasas, Puranas, Agamas are all part of smrtis. Among the smrti literature there is a body of literature which is also called smrti such as Manu-smrti. These smrtis are part of dharmasastra or books giving religious code. Smrti sastras are compiled remembering the meaning of the sruti and hence the name smrti (lit. remembrance). The smrtis change from age to age in their structure but the essence is same.

 

The classification of sruti and smrti literature

4 Vedas: Rg, Sama, Yajur, Atharva

 

 

 

ekavimsatibhedena rgvedam krtavan pura

sakhanantu satenaiva yajurvedamathakarot

samavedam sahasrena sakhanam pravibheda sah

atharvanamatho vedam vibheda navakena tu

 

"The Rgveda was divided into 21 branches and the Yajurveda into 100 branches, the Samaveda into 1,000 branches and the Atharvaveda into 9 branches." (Kurma Purana 52.19-20)

Further, every branch has four subdivisions called Samhita (or Mantra), Brahmana, Aranyaka, and Upanisad. So all in all, the Vedas consist of 1130 Samhitas, 1130 Brahmanas, 1130 Aranyakas, and 1130 Upanisads, a total of 4520 titles. By the influence of time, however, many texts have been lost. At present only about 11 Samhitas, 18 Brahmanas, 7 Aranyakas, and 220 Upanisads are available. This is less than 6% of the original Vedas.

4 Upavedas: Ayur (medicine), Gandharva (music), Dhanur (martial science), Sthapatya (architecture)

6 Vedangas ("limbs of Veda"): Siksa (pronunciation), Canda (poetic meter), Nirukta (etymology and lexicology), Vyakarana (grammar), Kalpa (ritual), Jyotisa (astronomy and astrology)

First two teach how to speak the Veda, second two teach how to understand the meaning of the Veda and the last two teach how to use the Veda.

Smrti: There are 20 smrtis -

Manu, Atri, Visnu, Harita, Yajnavalkya, Usana, Angira, Yama, Apastambha, Sanivarta, Katyayana, Brhaspati, Parasara, Vyasa, Sankha, Likhita, Daksa, Gautama, Satatapa, Vasistha.

Itihasa: Ramayana and Mahabharata

Puranas: They explain the teachings of the four Vedas in story form, making spiritual life more simple, and therefore in this age they are more important. There are eighteen Puranas divided into three groups along with three predominating Deities: sattva (goodness) - Visnu, rajas (passion) - Brahma and tamas (ignorance) - Siva. Padma Purana, Uttara khanda 236.18-21:

Sattva: Visnu, Narada, Bhagavata Garuda, Padma, Varaha Rajas: Brahmanda, Brahma-vaivarta, Markandeya, Bhavisya, Vamana, Brahma Tamas: Matsya, Kurma, Linga, Vayu/Siva, Skanda, Agni

Garuda Purana 1.223.15-16 replaces Vamana with Vayaviya:

"The eighteen Puranas are - 1. Brahma, 2. Padma, 3. Vaisnava, 4. Saiva (or Vayu), 5. Bhagavata, 6. Bhavisya, 7. Naradiya, 8. Skanda, 9. Linga, 10. Varaha, 11. Markandeya, 12. Agneya, 13. Brahmavaivarta, 14. Kaurma, 15. Matsya, 16. Garuda, 17. Vayaviya and 18. Brahmanda."

Garuda Purana 3.1.43,45,64 also adds: "Bhagavata is the best of all Puranas."

They are divided in this way to gradually raise the conditioned soul from ignorance to pure goodness. The three divisions appeal to people in these respective modes and elevate them to the perfection of life.

18 Upapuranas:

Sanat Kumara, Narasimha, Brhannaradiya, Linga, Durvasa, Kapila, Manava, Ausanasa, Varuna, Kalika, Mahesvara, Samba, Saura, Parasara, Devibhagavata, Aditya, Vasistha, Visnudharmottara.

18 Vidyas:

Purana, Nyaya, Mimamsa, Dharmasastra, Rg, Sama, Yajur, Atharva, Siksa, Kalpa, Canda, Jyotisa, Nirukta, Vyakarana, Ayurveda, Gandharva, Dhanur, Arthasastra.

Prasthanatrayi (main sources of scriptural evidence): Bhagavad-gita (700 verses), principle Upanisads and Brahmasutras (Vedanta-sutra consisting of 560 terse codes, or sutras).

Sixty-four Kalas (traditional arts mentioned in SB 10.44): Singing, Playing musical instruments, Dancing, Acting in theatre, Painting, Painting the body with tilak and cosmetics, Making designs with rice powder and flowers, Decorating with flowers, Playing music in water, Water play, Colour mixing, Making garlands, Decorating head with garlands and flowers, Dressing the actors, Ear decoration, Making fragrances, Putting on ornaments, Juggling or Magic, Sleight of hand, Culinary, Making drinks, Needlework, Playing with thread, Playing vina and damaru, Solving riddles, Reciting verses with specific conditions, Making difficult verses, Reciting books, Reciting plays and stories, Solving enigmatic verses, Preparing designs of cloth, cane and arrows, Spinning, Carpentry, Architecture, Testing metals and jewels, Metallurgy, Tinging jewels, Mineralogy, Herbal medicine, Lamb & Cock sport fighting, Domesticating parrots, Applying perfumes, Hair care, Sending message with symbols, Sophistry, Dialects, Making toys, Making yantra, Use of amulets, Conversation, Mental verses composition lexicography, Concealing one's identity by use of dress, Gambling, Magic arts, Ghostly knowledge, Chariot driving, Writing, Taking care of elephants and horses, Making tambula, Swimming.

64 Tantras or Agamas: Tantra literature is spoken by Lord Siva to Devi. It has three divisions called Agama, Yamala and Tantra. It is also divided according to the worshipable deity and there are three division called saiva, vaisnava and sakta.

Tantras are similar to the Vedic smrti sastras insofar as mantra, yantra and tantra are concerned (mantra = the sounds used in executing the duties; yantra = the paraphernalia needed for the duties; tantra = the method of executing the duties. These comprise the essence of duties, so in this the vaidika and tantrika systems are the same. The main difference between vaidika and tantrika sastras is in structure; vaidika sastras deal with gotra (family) whereas the tantrika sastras are open for one initiated into them by a guru.

Maha-sidhi-sarasvata-tantra lists the following 64 tantras:

1) Siddhisvara, 2) Mahatantra, 3) Kalitantra, 4) Kularnava, 5) Jnanarnava, 6) Nila, 7) Fetakare, 8) Devi-agama, 9) Uttara, 10) Sri-krama, 11) Siddhi-yamala, 12) Matsya-sukta, 13) Siddha-sara, 14) Siddhi-sarasvata, 15) Varahi, 16) Yogini, 17) Ganesa-vimarsini, 18) Nitya, 19) Sivagama, 20) Camunda, 21) Mundamata, 22) Hamsamahesvara, 23) Niruttara, 24) Kula-prakasaka, 25) Kalpa, 26) Gandharvaka, 27) Kriyasara, 28) Nibandha, 29) Svatantra, 30) Sammohana, 31) Lalita, 32) Radha, 33) Malini, 34) Rudra-yamala, 35) Brhat-srikrama, 36) Gavaksa, 37) Sukumudini, 38) Visuddhesvara, 39) Malinivijaya, 40) Samayacara, 41) Bhairavi, 42) Yogini-hrdaya, 43) Bhairava, 44) Sanat Kumara, 45) Yoni, 46) Tantrantra 47) Nava-ratnesvara, 48) Kula-cudamani, 49) Kamadhenu, 50) Kumari, 51) Bhuta-damara, 52) Malini-vijaya, 53) Brahma-yamala, 54) Bhava-cudamani, 55) Visva-sara, 56) Mahatantra, 57) Mahakata, 58) Kulamrta, 59) Kuloddisa, 60) Kunjika, 61) Cintamani, 62) Yamala, 63) Tantra-devaprakasa, 64) Kama

Pancaratra Agamas:

There are three main agamic schools - the Saiva, Sakta and Vaisnava - and each has their own Pancaratras. Among the Vaisnavas the followers of Sri-sampradaya (Sri Vaisnavas) draw a lot from the agamas. All of these agamas comprise four topics in general:

Jnana or knowledge; kriya (service such as construction of temples, installation of deities); carya or conduct (such as the observance of daily rites, festivals); and yoga or devotion, or attention.

The common feature of all agamas is:

(a) They accept the existence of a supreme being with a predominant male or female aspect.

(b) The existence of undivided souls.

© The reality of the objective universe.

(d) Devotion is the only means of emancipation.

Pancaratra is especially applicable in the Kali-yuga. It is as good as Veda, because it was spoken by the Lord Himself to Brahma when Brahma inquired how the Lord should be worshiped.

The name "Pancaratra" has different explanations. It is said that Lord Visnu spoke these instructions through five nights (panca ratri) of Brahma; that's where the name comes from. Alternatively, it is said that the Pancaratra makes the five processes dark: these five processes referred to are differently listed in different Pancaratriki scriptures, but they are things like karma, jnana, astanga-yoga, sankhya, and so on. Ahirbudhnya-samhita says that Pancaratra has it name because it deals with five-fold manifestation of Lord Vasudeva - Para, Vyuha, Vibhava, Arca and Antaryami. And Bhaktivinoda Thakura says in Navadvipa Mahatmya, ch. 13: "The five rsis (Sandilya, Upagayana, Maunjayana, Kausika, and Bharadvaja) were previously each instructed for one day and night (panca-ratra, "five nights") by Lord Narayana. Headed by Narada Muni they wrote the Pancaratra here (in Vidyanagara) to teach the people about practical devotional service." According to Narada Pancaratra the word Pancaratra means five types of knowledge.

There are 59 types of Pancaratras:

1) Agastya-samhita, 2) Aniruddha, 3) Ahirbudhnya, 4) Isvara, 5) Kapinjala, 6) Kasyapa, 7) Jayakhya, 8) Narada, 9) Pancaratra, 10) Naradiya, 11) Parama, 12) Parama Purusa, 13) Parasara 14) Padma-samhita, 15) Padma-tantra, 16) Paramesvara, 17) Purusottama, 18) Pauskara, 19) Brhad Brahma, 20) Bharadvaja, 21) Markandeya, 22) Laksmi-tantra, 23) Visvamitra, 24) Visnu, 25) Visnutilaka, 26) Visvaksena, 27) Sandilya, 28) Seva, 29) Sri Prasna, 30) Sanat Kumara, 31) Satvata, 32) Hayasirsa, 33) Trailokyamohana, 34) Vaibhava, 35) Prahrada, 36) Garga-galava, 37) Sandilya, 38) Satyokta, 39) Vasistha, 40) Savanakara, 41) Narayaniya, 42) Jnanarnava, 43) Svayambhuva, 44) Kapila, 45) Vihagendara, 46) Atreya, 47) Narasimhakhya, 48) Anamdakhya, 49) Aruna 50) Baudhayana, 51) Vaisnavacarita, 52) Mahatantri, 53) Bhagavata, 54) Sivohita, 55) Visnubhasita, 56) Padmodbhava, 57) Varaha, 58) Samanya, 59) Vyarokta

There are supposed to be 108 Pancaratragamas but most of them are lost.

 

http://www.leagueofdevotees.blogspot.com/

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It's funny, this sequence of events.

 

1) Hare Krishna claims that you can learn Vedas from the Hare Krishnas.

2) Someone points out the fact that Hare Krishnas do not study the Vedas, which essentially invalidates point #1

3) Another Hare Krishna arrives and posts a lot of irrelevant banter which basically says that "Veda" means something other than the standard definition of the term "Veda."

 

Conclusion: By "Vedas" the Hare Krishnas mean Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata Purana, and specifically their own commentaries on the same. In fact, when they say "Four Books are Enough," they aren't referring to Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Veda, but rather to the four principal commentaries of their acharya.

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It's funny, this sequence of events.

 

1) Hare Krishna claims that you can learn Vedas from the Hare Krishnas.

2) Someone points out the fact that Hare Krishnas do not study the Vedas, which essentially invalidates point #1

3) Another Hare Krishna arrives and posts a lot of irrelevant banter which basically says that "Veda" means something other than the standard definition of the term "Veda."

 

Conclusion: By "Vedas" the Hare Krishnas mean Bhagavad-gita and Bhagavata Purana, and specifically their own commentaries on the same. In fact, when they say "Four Books are Enough," they aren't referring to Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva Veda, but rather to the four principal commentaries of their acharya.

 

 

 

Its funny how accurate also they are.

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