vishnu not supreme- proof (no tamasic texts have i mentioned)?

[ranjeetmore 0]

hahahahaha.

[sant 0]

 

Here is the supreme.

 

 

what do you mean

[ranjeetmore 0]

this means that Durgadevi is a maidservant of Sri Krsna.

 

And please stop brandishing a certain name to 'establish' that Durgadevi is some sort of an independent Goddess,when the fact is that you don't know squat about his philosophy.

[sant 0]

<CENTER>

TEXT 44

srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir eka

chayeva yasya bhuvanani bibharti durga

icchanurupam api yasya ca cestate sa

govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

SYNONYMS

srsti--creation; sthiti--preservation; pralaya--and destruction; sadhana--the agency; saktih--potency; eka--one; chaya--the shadow; iva--like; yasya--of whom; bhuvanani--the mundane world; bibharti--maintains; durga--Durga; iccha--the will; anurupam--in accordance with; api--certainly; yasya--of whom; ca--and; cestate--conducts herself; sa--she; govindam--Govinda; adi-purusam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajami--worship.

TRANSLATION

The external potency Maya who is of the nature of the shadow of the cit potency, is worshiped by all people as Durga, the creating, preserving and destroying agency of this mundane world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda in accordance with whose will Durga conducts herself.

PURPORT</CENTER>

(The aforesaid presiding deity of Devi-dhama is being described.) The world, in which Brahma takes his stand and hymns the Lord of Goloka, is Devi-dhama consisting of the fourteen worlds and Durga is its presiding deity. She is ten-armed, representing the tenfold fruitive activities. She rides on the lion, representing her heroic prowess. She tramples down Mahisasura, representing the subduer of vices. She is the mother of two sons, Karttikeya and Ganesa, representing beauty and success. She is placed between Laksmi and Sarasvati, representing mundane opulence and mundane knowledge. She is armed with the twenty weapons, representing the various pious activities enjoined by the Vedas for suppression of vices. She holds the snake, representing the beauty of destructive time. Such is Durga possessing all these manifold forms. Durga is possessed of durga, which means a prison house. When jivas begotten of the marginal potency (tatastha sakti) forget the service of Krsna they are confined in the mundane prison house, the citadel of Durga. The wheel of karma is the instrument of punishment at this place. The work of purifying these penalized jivas is the duty devolved upon Durga. She is incessantly engaged in discharging the same by the will of Govinda. When, luckily. the forgetfulness of Govinda on the part of imprisoned jivas is remarked by them by coming in contact with self-realized souls and their natural aptitude for the loving service of Krsna is aroused, Durga herself then becomes the agency of their deliverance by the will of Govinda. So it behooves everybody to obtain the guileless grace of Durga, the mistress of this prison house, by propitiating her with the selfless service of Krsna. The boons received from Durga in the shape of wealth, property, recovery from illness, of wife and sons, should be realized as the deluding kindness of Durga. The mundane psychical jubilations of dasa-maha-vidya, the ten goddesses or forms of Durga, are elaborated for the delusion of the fettered souls of this world. Jiva is a spiritual atomic part of Krsna. When he forgets his service of Krsna he is at once deflected by the attracting power of Maya in this world, who throws him into the whirlpool of mundane fruitive activity (karma) by confining him in a gross body constituted by the five material elements, their five attributes and eleven senses, resembling the garb of a prisoner. In this whirlpool jiva has experience of happiness and miseries, heaven and hell. Besides this, there is a subtle body. consisting of the mind, intelligence and ego, inside the gross body. By means of the subtle body. the jiva forsakes one gross body and takes recourse to another. The jiva cannot get rid of the subtle body. full of nescience and evil desires, unless and until he is liberated. On getting rid of the subtle body he bathes in the Viraja and goes up to Hari-dhama. Such are the duties performed by Durga in accordance with the will of Govinda. In the Bhagavata sloka, vilajyamanaya... durdhiyah--the relationship between Durga and the conditioned souls has been described. Durga, worshiped by the people of this mundane world, is the Durga described above. But the spiritual Durga, mentioned in the mantra which is the outer covering of the spiritual realm of the Supreme Lord, is the eternal maidservant of Krsna and is, therefore, the transcendental reality whose shadow, the Durga of this world, functions in this mundane world as her maidservant.

[ranjeetmore 0]

What the hell is your aim ??

[sant 0]

 

What the hell is your aim ??

 

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thedurga of material and spiritual world are different

this devi bhagwat can be called illusionary or mayavi as it says that durga devi is independant

unless it ha been edited

[ranjeetmore 0]

***

What your saying about Devi bhagavatam may be true.I've not read the text nor do i plan to.

[ranjeetmore 0]

but Vaishnavacaryas have quoted from the Devi Bhagavatam to show Radhika's Absolute Supremacy,so..i dont know.

[sant 0]

it does mention krishna as supreme

in 9th chapter

i have posted it

[ranjeetmore 0]

You should be aware of one and only one criteria :

 

Does the concerned text(sastric or puranic) conform with the upanishads ??

 

If yes,it is to be accepted.

 

Even if Bhagavan says anything opposed to the upanishads,it is rejected(Bhagavan Buddha's doctrine).

 

Why do we accept Gita ? It is the Perfect summary of all the Upanishads(as said by Sri Shankaracharya) and thus it is known as Gitopanishad.

On the same lines,Srimad Bhagavatam is accepted as the Final Word.

[sant 0]

84-93. Vyâsa said :-- Thus saying, the Mûla Pakriti, the Great Devî, the Goddess of the Universe, vanished from their sight. The Devas, on the other hand, began to praise Her then and there, with rapt devotion. Since that day, all the Devas quitted their pride and engaged themselves in worshipping the Devî devotedly. They worshipped the Gâyatrî Devî daily during the three Sandhyâ times and performed various Yajñâs and thus they worshipped Bhagavatî daily. Thus, in the Satya Yuga, everybody engaged themselves in repeating the Mantra Gâyatrî and worshipped the Goddess indwelling in the Pranava and Hrîmkâra. So, See now for yourself, that the worship of Visnu or S’iva or initiation in the Visnu Mantra or in the S’iva Mantra are not mentioned anywhere in the Vedas as to be done always and for ever. They are done for a while and not required any more when the objects are fulfilled; only the worship of Gâyatrî is always compulsory, to be done at all times, as mentioned in the Vedas. O King! If a Brâhmana does not worship the Gâyatrî, know, then, for certain, that in every way, he is sure to go down lower and lower. There is no doubt in this. A Brâhmin is not to wait, no never, to do any other thing; he will have all his desires fulfilled if he worships only the Devî Gâyatrî. Bhagavân Manu says that a Brâhmin, whether he does any other thing or not, can be saved if he worships only the Divine Mother Gâyatrî. (This worshipping the Gâyatrî is the highest, greatest, and most difficult of all the works in this universe).

is this true

ive read that gayatri mantra is highest

it is towards the devi right

[sant 0]

 

You should be aware of one and only one criteria :

 

Does the concerned text(sastric or puranic) conform with the upanishads ??

 

If yes,it is to be accepted.

 

Even if Bhagavan says anything opposed to the upanishads,it is rejected(Bhagavan Buddha's doctrine).

 

Why do we accept Gita ? It is the Perfect summary of all the Upanishads(as said by Sri Shankaracharya) and thus it is known as Gitopanishad.

On the same lines,Srimad Bhagavatam is accepted as the Final Word.

 

 

you must be true

well then shankaracharya did not believe in the gita in the vaishnav way

[ranjeetmore 0]

Shankaracharya did not believe in the Geeta in the Vaishnava Way ???

 

Well he said that Sri Narayana is beyond ALL material Manifestation,Unborn,Eternal.

 

Now by Sriman Narayana,he meant the four handed divine form of,Names,abodes,Leelas of Sri Narayana.

 

How is this non-Vaishnava ??

 

He TAUGHT the geeta wrong.The reason behind this is explained in Padma Purana.

[sant 0]

 

<TABLE class=tborder id=post1136957 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_1136957 style="BORDER-TOP: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #cfcfcf 1px solid">Shankaracharya did not believe in the Geeta in the Vaishnava Way ???

 

Well he said that Sri Narayana is beyond ALL material Manifestation,Unborn,Eternal.

 

Now by Sriman Narayana,he meant the four handed divine form of,Names,abodes,Leelas of Sri Narayana.

 

How is this non-Vaishnava ??

 

He TAUGHT the geeta wrong.The reason behind this is explained in Padma Purana.

 

 

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</TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #cfcfcf 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #efefef"></TD><TD class=alt1 align=right><!-- controls --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

 

then why are you against his disciples and his mayavada

he is a mayavad is nt that true

[riih.qarojamahoamaan 0]

Is there one God or more? this is the question.

[sant 0]

CAN anyone tell about this --

 

On seeing the Devî

1-5. Brahmâ said :-- “We were very much astonished not to find water where our beautiful aeroplane landed us. We saw earth resonated with the sweet cooings of the cuckoos, filled with beautiful fruit-laden trees, forests and gardens. Big rivers, wells, tanks, ponds, water-springs, small pools, women, men all are there. Next we saw, in front of us, a nice city enclosed by a divine wall, containing many sacrificial halls and various palatial buildings and magnificent edifices. Oh! We thought :-- It is Heaven! What a great wonder! Who built this?

6-11. Next we saw a king looking like a Deva is going out on a hunting excursion in the forest. The Devî Ambikâ, Whom we saw before, is staying on the chariot. In an instant, our aeroplane, propelled by air got high up above the sky and reached in the twinkling of an eye at a lovely place. We saw there a divine Nandana garden. There Surabhi, the cow of plenty, was staying under the shade of the Parijâta tree. Close by her, there was an elephant having four tusks; and Menaká and other hosts of Apsarâs were there with their various gestures and postures, playing, dancing and singing. There were hundred of Yaksas, Gandharbhas, Vidyâdharas within that Mandâra garden playing and singing. Within this there was the Lord Satakratu with S'achî, the daughter of Pulomâ.

12-34. Next we saw with great wonder, Varuna, the lord of the aquatic animals, Kuvera, Yama, Sûrya (sun), fire and the other Devas; then we saw that in our front, Indra the Lord of the Devas, was coming out from a well decorated city. He was there situated in his palanquin, calm and quiet and carried by men. Then the car, where we were situated, began to

get up high in the sky, and in the twinkling of an eye, we reached Brahmâ loka, that is saluted by all the Devas. There S'ambhu and Kes'ava were greatly bewildered to see Brahmâ of that place. In the council hall of Brahmâ, the Vedas with their Angas, the serpents, hills, oceans and rivers were seen. Seeing all these, Visnu and Mahes'vara asked me :-- “O Four-faced one! Who is this eternal Brahmâ? I replied :-- I do not know who is this Brahmâ? Who am I? and who is He? why has this error come over me? You, too, also are gods so you can better ponder over it.” Next our car, going with the swiftness of mind went, in the twinkling of an eye, to the beautiful all auspicious Kailâs'a mountain surrounded by bliss-giving Yaksas. It was beautified by the Mandâra garden, resonated by the sweet cooings of S'ukas and cuckoos and the sweet sounds of lutes and small drums and tabors. When we reached there we saw the five faced, three-eyed Bhagavân S'ashi S'ekhara, with ten hands, wearing tiger skin, and the upper garment of the elephant skin. He was then, getting out of his abode, riding on a bull. His two sons, the great heroes, Ganes'a and Kârtikeya, beautifully adorned, were attending Him as His body guards. Nandi and all other hosts were following Him, chanting victories to Him. O Muni Narâda! we were greatly wondered to see another S'ankara, surrounded by the Matrikâs. So much so, that perplexed with doubts, I sat down there. Next our aeroplane went on with the force of wind; and in an instant reached the abode of Vaikuntha, the amusement court of Laksmî. O Sûta! There at Vaikuntha, we saw a wonderful manifestation of power. Our companion Visnu was greatly surprised to see that excellent city. We saw there four-armed Visnu, of the colour of Âtasi flower, wearing yellow garments, adorned with divine ornaments sitting on Garuda. Laksmî Devî is fanning wonderful chowry to Him. Struck with wonder at the sight of the eternal Visnu, we took our seat on the car and looked at one another's face.

Next the balloon ascended with the swiftness of wind; and, in the twinkling of an eye, reached to the ocean of nectar, the Sudhâ-Sâgar, with waves playing sweetly on it. This ocean Sudhâ Sâgara is filled with aquatic animals and agitated with ripples. We saw and went along and came to a very wonderful place called the Mani Dvîpa (the island of gems) in the midst of the Ocean. It was adorned with Mandâra and Pàrijâta an other heavenly flower trees (plants?), with various beautiful carpets, with variegated trees As'oka, Vakula, Ketakî, Champaka, Kuravaka, etc., adorned with lustrous gems and pearls. It was resonated with the sweet cooings of the cuckoos and the humming sounds of bees; and it presented the sight of a sweet harmonious music playing there.

35-67. Sitting on our aeroplane, we saw, from a distance, within that Dvîpa, a beautiful cot known as S'ivâkâra (i.e. whose four legs represent Brahmâ, Visnu, Rudra, etc., and whose top portion represents Sadâ S’iva looking like a rainbow, with exquisitely beautiful carpet spread over it and decked with various gems and jewels and inlaid with pearls. We saw a Divine Lady, sitting on the cot, wearing a red garment and a garland of red cloth and bedewed with red sandal paste. Her eyes were dark-red; that beautiful faced red-lipped lady looked more beautiful than ten millions of lightnings and ten millions of Laksmîs and lustrous like the Sun. The Bhagavatî Bhuvanes'varî was sitting with a sweet smile on Her lips and holding in Her four hands noose, goad, and signs indicating as if She was ready to grant boons and asking Her devotees discard all fear. We never saw before such a form. Even the birds of that place repeat the mystic incantation Hrim and serve that Lady, Who is of the colour of the rising Sun, all merciful, and in the full bloom of youth. That lotus-faced smiling lady was adorned with all the beauties of Nature. Her high breasts defied the lotus bud. She was holding various jewelled ornaments, e.g., armplates, bracelets, diadems, etc

 

 

Brahmâ said :-- When Hari addressed us in the above way, we two became choked by intense feelings of joy; our voice became tremulous and we waited there for some time; our hearts were elated with joy to go to Her. We then accepted Hari's word said “Om” and got down from our car and went with hastened steps and with fear to the gate. Seeing us standing at the gateway, the Devî Bhagâvatî smiled and within an instant transformed us three into females. We looked beautiful and youthful women, adorned with nice ornaments; thus we greatly wondered and went to Her. Seeing us standing at Her feet in feminine forms, the beautiful Devî Bhagâvatî, looked on us with eyes of affection. We then bowed to the great Devî, looked at one another and stood before Her in that feminine dress. We three, then, began to see the pedestal of the great Devî, shining with the lustre of ten million Suns and decorated with various gems and jewels. We next discerned that thousands and thousands of attendants are waiting on Her. Some of them are wearing red dress; some blue dress, some yellow dress; thus the Deva girls, variously dressed were serving Her and standing by Her side. They were dancing, singing on and playing with musical instruments and were gladly chanting hymns in praise of the Devî. O Nârada!We saw there another wonderful thing. Listen. We saw the whole universe, moving and non-moving within the nails of the lotus feet of the Devî. We saw there myself, Visnu, Rudra, Vâyu, Agni, Yama, Moon, Sun, Varuna, Tvastâ, Indra, Kuvera and other Devas, Apsarâs, Gandarbhas, rivers, oceans, mountains, Visvâvasus Chitraketu, Sveta, Chitrângada, Nârada, Tumburu, Hâ Hâ Hû Hû and other Gandarbhas, the twin As'vins, the eight Vasus, Sâdhyas, Siddhas, the Pitris, Ananta and other Nâgas, Kinnaras, Uragas, Râksasas, the abode of Vaikuntha, the abode of Brahmâ, Kailas'a mountain, the best of all mountains; all were existing there. Within that nail of the toe were, reflected all the things of the Universe. The lotus whence I was born, the four faced Brahmâ like myself on that lotus, Bhagavân Jagannâth lying on that bed of Ananta, the two Demons Madhu Kaitabha, all I saw there.

[ranjeetmore 0]

if this is accepted by the Bhagavatam,believe it.

Otherwise it is to be neglected with neutrality.

 

Bhagavatam is the Natural commentary on the vedanta.

 

Only three sastras : Gita,Vedanta and the upanishads.

 

i.e. Gita,Bhagavatam and Upanishads.

 

Only these three scriptures are accepted.

 

All the Jagadgurus have provided commentaries upon these three sastras: Gita ,Upanishads and Vedanta.

 

so no use of reading anything from any other scripture

[hindustani 1]

No comments!!

 

Only these three scriptures are accepted.

 

 

so no use of reading anything from any other scripture

[Haridasdasdas 0]

 

And Vaishnava Puranas classify Shaiva Puranas as tamasic. But which Shaiva heeds that nonsense?

 

Similarly, Devi worshippers do not attach value to the opinions of Vaishnava, Shaiva sects.

 

Cheers

 

Because if the argument was so easily resolvable, it probably wouldn't exist.

[hindustani 1]

Inuf is inuf Mr.Ranjeet,show me the pramana,no way word like maidservant should be used for Godess,you perhaps don't have any idea about the supremecy of Godess in Hindu religion,unless you have a fair idea please dont use word like what you have used here,better for you and for your spiritual life.

 

this means that Durgadevi is a maidservant of Sri Krsna.

ha ha,go and read then,it is beautiful.

 

What your saying about Devi bhagavatam may be true.I've not read the

text nor do i plan to.

 

 

[sant 0]

 

ha ha,go and read then,it is beautiful

So Youve READ It.

Now do you know why i asked . Can you tell about this devi as there is one only who i know or think is following BHUVANESHWARI devi.I dont know about many shakts who follow.

[hindustani 1]

Mother is always beautiful for her children,full of mercy so as the Godess and there should not be any doubt on it but when such word being used I just cannot stop myself,whatever is our sampradaya may be> fair and farmost thing is to respect others and this is absent in Mr.Ranjeet,many times I have seen this and first time I openly wrote,there is no place in religion where you address someone with words like rascal or maidservant kinda words for Mahadevi.Sence must be prevailed.Else door of Moksha will be closed permenantly for such devotee-my open challenge.

Ya devi sarva bhuteshu Matru rupen sansthita Nama: statsayi Nama: statsayi,Nama: statsayi namo namah.

Sorry sant as usual I failed to read anything out of your lines- my old problem may be!

 

 

So Youve READ It.

Now do you know why i asked . Can you tell about this devi as there is one only who i know or think is following BHUVANESHWARI devi.I dont know about many shakts who follow.

 

[melvin 1]

Do you remember the story of Bharata, a pure devotee of Krsnah? To many who didn`t know him thought he was dumb because he wont say a word if asked. One day the dacoits(worshipers of Goddess Durga) took him to the Deity of Goddess Durga where they were going to sacrifice and kill Bharata before the Deity Goddess Durga. When the dacoits were about to slay Bharata with their swords, the Deity Goddess Durga came to life and immediately killed all the dacoits who were there to sacrifice Bharata. There`s a lesson here somewhere. That one should never attempt killing or hurt a vaishnava if one is a worshiper of Goddess Durga or Lord Siva. This henious act could boomerang on you. Goddess Durga and Lord Siva are the protectors of all vaishnavas who render devotional service to Krsnah(Govinda). If you are a Durga worshiper or a Shivite you should make friends with a vaishnava not make him your enemy.

[hindustani 1]

Melvin I have no idea if this has addressed to me.For me no one is enemy here but friends.

Go and findout what is written for those who use cheap words for Maa Durga please.

For me I love and respect Vaishnavas and this you can find from my various posts but I hate when they start talking unrealistic which itself a big sin for them and they are not in a position perhaps to realise this.

[melvin 1]

 

Melvin I have no idea if this has addressed to me.For me no one is enemy here but friends.

Go and findout what is written for those who use cheap words for Maa Durga please.

For me I love and respect Vaishnavas and this you can find from my various posts but I hate when they start talking unrealistic which itself a big sin for them and they are not in a position perhaps to realise this.

 

We`re friends, Hindustani. I, too, love and respect your points of view. Vaishnavas are disciplined disciples of Visnu or Narayana. They don`t speak ill-will to anybody. Because if they do, their spiritual Gurus wont be pleased. Please forgive them if they did. Was it saktyavesa avatar Jesus who said that if an enemy threw a stone at you, you throw back to him a piece of bread?