Where is your spiritual body?

[suchandra 1]

 

Looks like it is being kept.

 

"By the result of our past lives’ fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body. That is the body of the prison house, just like when a criminal is put into the prison house, he is given a different dress. In hospital, in prison house, when a man is there, his original dress is taken away. It is kept. When he’s released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Mayavadi thinks."

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.32

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Mayapur, March 10, 1976

[Lotusflower 0]

Sometimes I think how can we Live forever? Can you imagine it? Living forever and ever and ever!.

[RamanaDasi 0]

 

 

Looks like it is being kept.

 

"By the result of our past lives’ fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body. That is the body of the prison house, just like when a criminal is put into the prison house, he is given a different dress. In hospital, in prison house, when a man is there, his original dress is taken away. It is kept. When he’s released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Mayavadi thinks."

 

Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.32

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Mayapur, March 10, 1976

 

The spiritual body is manifest from the consciousness of the Self. See Vedanta-sutra 4.4.1

 

The spiritual body is never in a separate location from the soul, the conscious self.

 

Prior to the realization of one's siddha-deha (spiritual body), or in other words in the practitioner stage of sadhana bhakti, the spiritual form of the self is of an indeterminate shape. This matter is also dealt with in some detail in Vedanta-sutra 4.4.8-12. The self only manifests a spiritual form (siddha-deha) when the liberated soul has a desire to render service to the Lord through a spiritual form and senses.

 

In Chaitanya Charitamrta, Sri Chaitanya says to Sanatan Goswami (a few times) mukta api lilaya vigraham krtva bhagavantam bhajante. That is, a mukta (liberated soul) who is wanting to engage in bhajan of Bhagavan and to participate in the lila of Bhagavan will "krtva" a "vigraha".

 

The soul will make (krtva) a spiritual body (vigraha) through a transformation of their consciousness-bliss-body (satchitananda). This is explained in the commentary of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, but unfortunately this is not given in your Iskcon publication.

 

The idea that the spiritual body is in the spiritual sky waiting for us, and that we are in a different place from our spiritual body, is directly refuted by Vedavyasa in Vedanta sutra 4.4.1-12. I guess that since Vedanta Sutra is not one of Prabhupada's books some people such as Sarva will not believe what is written there.

[melvin 1]

 

That the spiritual body is awarded to the soul upon liberation fit to be an associate of God even in the present life. Who among you here in this board says they are liberated? Raise your hands, please.

 

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[Kulapavana 0]

 

The spiritual body is manifest from the consciousness of the Self. See Vedanta-sutra 4.4.1

 

The spiritual body is never in a separate location from the soul, the conscious self.

 

Prior to the realization of one's siddha-deha (spiritual body), or in other words in the practitioner stage of sadhana bhakti, the spiritual form of the self is of an indeterminate shape. This matter is also dealt with in some detail in Vedanta-sutra 4.4.8-12. The self only manifests a spiritual form (siddha-deha) when the liberated soul has a desire to render service to the Lord through a spiritual form and senses.

 

In Chaitanya Charitamrta, Sri Chaitanya says to Sanatan Goswami (a few times) mukta api lilaya vigraham krtva bhagavantam bhajante. That is, a mukta (liberated soul) who is wanting to engage in bhajan of Bhagavan and to participate in the lila of Bhagavan will "krtva" a "vigraha".

 

The soul will make (krtva) a spiritual body (vigraha) through a transformation of their consciousness-bliss-body (satchitananda). This is explained in the commentary of Sri Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura, but unfortunately this is not given in your Iskcon publication.

 

The idea that the spiritual body is in the spiritual sky waiting for us, and that we are in a different place from our spiritual body, is directly refuted by Vedavyasa in Vedanta sutra 4.4.1-12. I guess that since Vedanta Sutra is not one of Prabhupada's books some people such as Sarva will not believe what is written there.

 

Very, very good answers!

[melvin 1]

My spiritual body is my original body before I got entangled with maya. For example my original username in this forum was melvin when I changed my mind and used mateo,marco melvin108, sanatana, krsnaraja, krsnaraj1, etc as my other usernames in this forum. Now, I`m back to using melvin.

 

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[suchandra 1]

 

Very, very good answers!

 

 

Just found this..."very small", should have posted the whole text......

 

"When he’s released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Mayavadi thinks. We are not zero. We have got our spiritual body but very, very small. Very small. The measurement is given: one ten- thousandth part of the tip of the hair, very minute. Aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan. The Supreme Lord is great. “God is great.” He’s greater than the greatest, and He is smaller than the smallest. He is… The living entity is even smaller than the atom, but it has got a body. It is not that without body. We cannot imagine. Just like sometimes we see at night some microbic ant, very small, almost like full stop, but it is moving very nicely here and there. So the same physiological contruction, anatomy, is there. Everything is there. So this is God’s creation. Aṇor aṇīyan mahato mahiyan."

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760310SB.MAY.htm

[melvin 1]

 

Just found this..."very small", should have posted the whole text......

 

"When he’s released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Mayavadi thinks. We are not zero. We have got our spiritual body but very, very small. Very small. The measurement is given: one ten- thousandth part of the tip of the hair, very minute. Aṇor aṇiyan mahato mahiyan. The Supreme Lord is great. “God is great.” He’s greater than the greatest, and He is smaller than the smallest. He is… The living entity is even smaller than the atom, but it has got a body. It is not that without body. We cannot imagine. Just like sometimes we see at night some microbic ant, very small, almost like full stop, but it is moving very nicely here and there. So the same physiological contruction, anatomy, is there. Everything is there. So this is God’s creation. Aṇor aṇīyan mahato mahiyan."

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760310SB.MAY.htm

 

This thread started with a question: Where is your spiritual body not what. In other words, I`m asking all the members here in this forum where are their original bodies(spiritual bodies) now located? I believe many here are not using their original spiritual bodies and are now using copies of spiritual bodies long gone.

 

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[coolrishu 0]

yes i felt that this body is a jail................................its trully a jail when we are in pure awareness state

[melvin 1]

 

yes i felt that this body is a jail................................its trully a jail when we are in pure awareness state

If you think you are inside a prison cell, then do what these people want to do(www.youtube.com/cpdrc) when they are actually inside one of them.

 

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[Kulapavana 0]

 

My spiritual body is my original body before I got entangled with maya.

 

Based on the standard Gaudiya Vaishnava doctrine, we came to this world of maya from tatastha sakti, where our spiritual body was un-developed and un-differentiated (we were all very similar small sparks of consciousness). It is not that we were first gopis and we are now zeros... We received a seed of bhakti from great Vaishnavas, and now we have begun to evolve and grow spiritually, eventually developing full fledged devotional consciousness - our spiritual body is our devotional rasa, a particular way of serving Krsna. In spiritual sense you ARE your spiritual body.

[bija 0]

 

...our spiritual body is our devotional rasa...

Yes exactly Kula. Hence the stress put forward by Srila Prabhupada about bhakti in Gita As It Is.

 

The souls who received shelter of Hladini shakti originally developed that rasa. The same shakti has now been offered to us, isnt it...therefore the need of humility.

 

I like a quote from Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja, quoting Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, have to paraphrase (cant find it). It speaks about taking shelter of Gaura Tattva and waiting for the higher plane to admit us into rasa (Sri Radha's plane)...rather than rushing in and trampling that plane.

 

I think this points to the mystery of Gaudiya philosophy, and what the spiritual form actually is. I also like the definition of the hladini shakti as been described as kriya. As Suchandra has posted...there never was zero. Why? Because the soul is potent by nature in connection with the Source.. (bliss). And Sri Krsna being the Original Potent Personality with full internal shakti.

 

Our home is definately not the external...by nature our full satisfaction is in the internal potency of God. The land of permanent form. Voidist and zero philosophers are mayavadi*, only seeing the impermanence of external causality. The buddhists teach impermanence, or arising (one thing from another)...therefore emptiness.

 

The little I have read from Baladeva's commentary of Vedanta Sutra explains the soul very well.

 

Full Vedanta Sutra with Baladeva Vidyabhushan Commentary, read here

 

*I would like to soften the word mayavada a little: as a complete study of external things alone. I have had interest in buddhistic philosophy since childhood, and found many gems, but not a rasa like that which is offered by Sri Caitanya. That is why I press on in faith in Gaura Naam.

[melvin 1]

 

Here we go again the argument which came first, the chicken or egg. If we didn`t have our original spiritual bodies then there`s no substance to the statement that we are part and parcel of God. It was maya which made us forget we have an original spiritual body with the same Godly qualities as the Lord. We are the original spiritual bodies but just doesn`t know where and what they were because of forgetfulness.

 

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[RamanaDasi 0]

 

Based on the standard Gaudiya Vaishnava doctrine, we came to this world of maya from tatastha sakti, where our spiritual body was un-developed and un-differentiated (we were all very similar small sparks of consciousness). It is not that we were first gopis and we are now zeros... We received a seed of bhakti from great Vaishnavas, and now we have begun to evolve and grow spiritually, eventually developing full fledged devotional consciousness - our spiritual body is our devotional rasa, a particular way of serving Krsna. In spiritual sense you ARE your spiritual body.

 

A very beautiful posting. Dandavats.

[suchandra 1]

 

 

Here we go again the argument which came first, the chicken or egg. If we didn`t have our original spiritual bodies then there`s no substance to the statement that we are part and parcel of God. It was maya which made us forget we have an original spiritual body with the same Godly qualities as the Lord. We are the original spiritual bodies but just doesn`t know where and what they were because of forgetfulness.

 

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There is a group of academic people who believe we dropped - without any reason - from the tatastha sakti factory into the material universe of samsara. Whenever these highly educated professors say something we have to learn to live with it.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

If we didn`t have our original spiritual bodies then there`s no substance to the statement that we are part and parcel of God. It was maya which made us forget we have an original spiritual body with the same Godly qualities as the Lord.

 

We were and still are Brahman, spirit, part and parcel of God, a minute spark which is part of the dazzling light of brahmajyoti. How is that not being a part of God?

 

Why do shastras speak about svarupya mukti? Receiving a boon of having a spiritual body just like Lord's Vishnu? Because at the present time you DO NOT have such a developed spiritual body. Gaudiya bhaktas do not desire svarupya mukti because they want to DEVELOP their own spiritual body of the servant of the servants of Krsna.

 

And for the last time, there is NO MAYA in the spiritual world. It was not maya that brought you to the material world. It was your own desire to explore the dark bank of the Viraja River.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

There is a group of academic people who believe we dropped - without any reason - from the tatastha sakti factory into the material universe of samsara. Whenever these highly educated professors say something we have to learn to live with it.

 

There is a group of sentrimentalists who believe we left the direct association with Krsna - without any reason - and came to explore this material universe of samsara. Whenever these people quote selected statements of their guru, they expect you to reject shastras as well as previous acharyas and blindly follow their new doctrine...

[melvin 1]

 

We were and still are Brahman, spirit, part and parcel of God, a minute spark which is part of the dazzling light of brahmajyoti. How is that not being a part of God?

 

Why do shastras speak about svarupya mukti? Receiving a boon of having a spiritual body just like Lord's Vishnu? Because at the present time you DO NOT have such a developed spiritual body. Gaudiya bhaktas do not desire svarupya mukti because they want to DEVELOP their own spiritual body of the servant of the servants of Krsna.

 

And for the last time, there is NO MAYA in the spiritual world. It was not maya that brought you to the material world. It was your own desire to explore the dark bank of the Viraja River.

 

What do you mean there`s no MAYA in the spiritual world? Maya is God`s external energy. He uses illusion like a magician to deceive us all. God is the cause of our forgetfulness, remembrance and intelligence. We are like puppets controlled by God the master puppeteer. We are just toys which God can do whatever He wants from us to do. If God wants us to jump over the cliff. He can do that. If He wants us to dance hip hop, He could also do that. God is the ultimate enjoyer and we are the enjoyed. God even let us enjoy soma rasa so we could forget Him.

 

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[bija 0]

In a higher sense all things are spiritual - even maha-maya - because all is God's energy. But our behaviours as conditioned souls, under the influence of maya, are considered not spiritual.

 

In the spiritual world there is yoga-maya. For example yoga maya potency was used to bewilder Brahma in the stealing of the cows pastime. Yoga maya is used to slowly lift the veil so that the Lord's associates can get a glimpse of who He truly is - the Supreme controller. Yoga-maya can also influence the devotees in this world.

[melvin 1]

 

In a higher sense all things are spiritual - even maha-maya - because all is God's energy. But our behaviours as conditioned souls, under the influence of maya, are considered not spiritual.

 

In the spiritual world there is yoga-maya. For example yoga maya potency was used to bewilder Brahma in the stealing of the cows pastime. Yoga maya is used to slowly lift the veil so that the Lord's associates can get a glimpse of who He truly is - the Supreme controller. Yoga-maya can also influence the devotees in this world.

 

Yes, Bija you are correct. It`s our behavior as conditioned souls which is considered unspiritual. In other words, we should behave like a child not an adult if we are aiming for ultimate spirituality. Adults are conditioned while children are not. Adults are predictable while children are spontaneous.

 

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[bija 0]

 

It`s our behavior as conditioned souls which is considered unspiritual. In other words, we should behave like a child not an adult if we are aiming for ultimate spirituality. Adults are conditioned while children are not. Adults are predictable while children are spontaneous.

there is a tv show on here melvin called grumpy old men, there is another one called grumpy old women. funny show about middle age people and up (and their minds)...now thats maya hey, grumpy old minds ( a tv is just a tv)

 

i suppose the good thing about grace of god is that we can see deeper than grumpiness:eek4: when the childhood innocence leaves...and find some peace in knowing we are not these material minds and bodies - and reality is not all we project.

 

oh...I forgot...krsna was a boy wasn't he

 

you are right melvin.

[melvin 1]

 

there is a tv show on here melvin called grumpy old men, there is another one called grumpy old women. funny show about middle age people and up (and their minds)...now thats maya hey, grumpy old minds ( a tv is just a tv)

 

i suppose the good thing about grace of god is that we can see deeper than grumpiness:eek4: when the childhood innocence leaves...and find some peace in knowing we are not these material minds and bodies - and reality is not all we project.

 

oh...I forgot...krsna was a boy wasn't he

 

you are right melvin.

 

Dear Bija

Your reply immediately made me remember Srila Prabhupada. To the the devotees and admirers of His Divine Grace maybe they looked up to him as a grumpy old man but deep inside Abhay was only a boy.

 

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[bija 0]

:popcorn:yeps, maybe he is a boy.

 

 

(ja joshi by the way is one of our forum members...nice author and follower of mirabi)

[melvin 1]

 

:popcorn:yeps, maybe he is a boy.

 

 

(ja joshi by the way is one of our forum members...nice author and follower of mirabi)

Yes! Srila Prabhupada is only a boy. If there are pictures of him smiling it`s because they never thought of him as a boy!Maybe His Divine Grace had so much fun in his life teaching his students Krsna consciousness. His pupils were so serious in going home back to Godhead that they didn`t know their professor was only a boy!

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[jeffster 0]

Yes, Prabhupad always said that he was a cowherd boy. He also said that Krishna consciousness is intrinsic, that he (Prabhupad) just came to teach us that which we had forgotten. In one sense, whether we came from tathasta-sakti or fell from Goloka isn't really the issue; the issue is where are we headed, not where have we come from. Yes, our souls in their fullness of spiritual consciousness will blossom into our siddha-deha, eternal identity. Right now they are shrivelled up and unrecognizable, although within our hearts, but as we make advancement, our real identity will fully manifest. Some of you may even have a clue already as to your real identity. What part of Krishna lila or Ram lila or Vishnu lila or Chaitanya lila are you most attracted to ?

Pranams, jeffster/AMdas