Definition Of Diksha

[theist 1]

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj

Sri Guru and His Grace:

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> We accept the mantra only to help the nama-bhajana, the worship of the holy name. Otherwise, it may not be necessary at all. It has been judged in such a way. The name alone can do everything for a person. lt is full and complete. The mantra helps us to do away with the aparadhas, offenses, and the abhasa, or hazy conceptions in our bhajana. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Who doesn't need help?

 

Here we go with the spin. Now no one can chant the name properly without gayatri initiation. keep at it beggar. Make the simple complicated if that is how you want to experience life.

 

There are many things that help one keep focused on the name not just gayatri mantra. And remember even in the gayatri

Jiva Goswami has written that the name of Krsna is the principle thing in the gayatri mantra. Within the mantra, there are also so many other words, but the name is the most important. If the name of Krsna is taken away, and replaced with some other name, the whole thing will be rotten. This is the decision of Jiva Goswami. The holy name of Krsna is all in all. The holy name of Krsna is there in the gayatri mantra, and so many other words are couched there. But if Krsna's name is taken away and replaced with the name of Siva, then the whole thing will go to Siva. The holy name is the all-important factor.

 

The holy name of Krsna is so important that even the gayatri mantra may not be necessary. It is said na ca sat kriya, na dikse na ca purascarya manadilate mantrayam rasana spri hanato sri krsna namatmaka : "One need not undergo all the purificatory processes, or follow the six ritualistic ceremonies mentioned in the Vedas for pious life; one need not even take initiation into the gayatri mantra. If one simply chants the holy name of Krsna without offense, everything will be successful." The holy name of Krsna is the most important consideration. The gayatri mantra may not even be necessary.

We accept the mantra only to help the nama-bhajana, the worship of the holy name. Otherwise, it may not be necessary at all. It has been judged in such a way. The name alone can do everything for a person. lt is full and complete.

[theist 1]

What's your opinion on the words of BR Sridhar 3 dot?

[Beggar 0]

 

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

Hilo, Hawaii: January 13, 2003

...[sripad Padmanabha Maharaja:] There is a question concerning the relationship between gayatri-mantra (diksa) and harinama initiation. Some persons have presented quotes from Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja in order to present the idea, based upon their own understanding, that harinama is complete and sufficient in itself for the conditioned soul, and that initiation into the gayatri mantra is not actually required for him. I will read their quotations, and then Srila Maharaja will explain the conclusive philosophical understandings. First of all they quote Srila Prabhupada in a room conversation in 1973 in Paris, where he says, "Chanting the Hare-Krsna maha-mantra. Then, as he practices, he becomes more purified. Then second initiation - gayatri mantra. The first initiation, according to Jiva Gosvami, that is sufficient. Chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, that is sufficient. But still, to purify them more, the second initiation, gayatri, is given." That is one quote.

Then they quote Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja in his book Sri Guru and his Grace. There he says, "We accept the mantra only to help the nama bhajana, the worship of the holy name. Otherwise it may not be necessary at all. It has been judged in such a way. The name alone can do everything for a person; it is full and complete. The gayatri mantra helps us to do away with the aparadhas (offenses) and the abhasa or hazy conception. The gayatri mantra comes to help us only so far."

With these two quotations these persons have attempted to support their statement that it is not actually completely essential or necessary for us conditioned souls to accept the gayatri mantra - diksa - because harinama is sufficient. They have also suggested that Srila Narayana Maharaja is saying something contrary to Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaja. I am also reading the two statements they have quoted from Srila Narayana Maharaja. The first is from his book, Going Beyond Vaikuntha: "Without the gopala-mantra and the kama-gayatri, will our sadhana be complete with only the nama-sankirtana? No, because by nama-sankirtana alone we will not be able to chant suddha-nama, the pure name of Krsna." The second quotation they cited is from a lecture given by Srila Narayana Maharaja on the topic of Sri Bhajana Rahasya: "Everything is there, but don't think that we can realize all this by chanting krsna-nama alone. We must chant harinama and gayatri-mantra as well. If we want full understanding and realization of what is in the Hare Krsna mantra, we must also chant the gayatri mantras.

I want to request Srila Narayana Maharaja to kindly give the proper philosophical conclusions, so that everyone can understand clearly the position of gayatri-mantra initiation and harinama initiation, and their relationship.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] I think you have all understood the argument; now you should try very carefully to understand the reply so that you can reconcile all the statements. Someone has presented the idea that the acceptance of diksa is not essential, and he has indirectly indicated the verse:

diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare

jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare

["One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus, even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered."]

The holy name is sufficient. The holy name is very powerful and can fulfill all desires. The name will even give vraja-prema. What, then, is the need of taking initiation? The paper has quoted my statement, along with the statement of Prapujya-carana Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja; so I want to reconcile all statements.

It is true that diksa-purascarya (initiation and the purifictory activities performed before initiation) is not needed in all circumstances; but we should know something about the actual meaning of this verse. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada has written a book of rules and regulations in deity worship called Arcana Dipika, and there he has explained that harinama is bhagavata-svarupa, the actual form of Krsna and Radha, and for this reason it is stated in Sri Siksastakam, "Param vijayate sri krsna-sankirtana." By chanting and remembering Krsna's names, all kinds of perfection - like vraja-prema and even radha-dasya (becoming a maid servant of Srimati Radhika) - can be attained. In the first stage, however, when a devotee is uttering the holy name he is full with many aparadhas, and also anarthas such as laya (sleep), viksepa (distraction), apratipatti (indifference or disinterest in spiritual topics), and so on. It is guaranteed that such a person cannot utter the pure name. Rather, his chanting will be nama-aparadha. Chanting the pure name is only possible after the diksa-samskara.

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

divyam jnanam yato dadyat kuryat papasya sanksayam

tasmat dikseti sa prokta desikais tattva-kovidaih

["Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa." (quoted in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta: Madhya 15. 108 purp)]

The gayatri-mantra gives all kinds of divya-jnana, transcendental knowledge, including the knowledge of krsna-tattva and jiva-tattva, and it also gives a relationship with Krsna. Nama alone will not give this relation to the person filled with anarthas. All of our acaryas, from top to bottom, have stated that in order to purify us from our sinful actions and to clear offenses (anartha-nrvrtti) so that we can develop the ability to chant the pure name, we must accept diksa-vidhana (the process of initiation). Di - ksa. Di means divya-jnana, or realized knowledge of our relationship with Krsna. Ksa is the washing away of all sins, aparadhas, and other impurities. For this, diksa-vidhana is essential. Without diksa-samskara, one's relationship with Krsna (sambandha-jnana) cannot manifest and one cannot chant suddha-nama. It is essential to accept diksa.

yatha kancanatam yati

kamsyam rasa-vidhanatah

tatha diksa-vidhanena

dvijatvam jayate nrnam

["As bell metal (a mixture of copper and tin) becomes gold by mixing with mercury, similarly, by the process of diksa, initiation, a person becomes a brahmana."( Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa)]

Bell metal turns into gold by the help of the element mercury in an al-chemical process. Similarly, by this element, the process of diksa, our chanting of the holy name will become pure; otherwise it is not possible.

If there is no necessity to accept diksa-mantra, why did Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada take second initiation from Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, and why did he give diksa initiation to all of his disciples? Parama-pujyapada Srila Sridhara Gosvami Maharaja also took diksa from him. If there is no necessity, why did Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura give diksa initiation, and why did his disciples accept it?

Not only that, Brahma received kama-gayatri and gopal-mantra from Krsna Himself. Brahma then gave the diksa-mantra to Sri Narada Rsi, and Narada gave it to so many disciples. Narada not only gave harinama to Dhruva Maharaja; he gave him diksa by the mantra: om namo bhagavate vasudevaya. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu took initiation from Sri Isvara Puripada, who first gave Him harinama, and to purify that chanting of nama, he gave Him gopal-mantra. Gopal-mantra is transcendental and ever-existing, and it gives a relationship with Krsna as Gopijana-vallabha. We should consider all this evidence.

All the acaryas in our guru-parampara have accepted second initiation from a bona fide guru. Can those who say that harinama is sufficient for conditioned souls name any acarya in our guru-parampara who has not taken diksa initiation? Srila Gaurakisora dasa Babaji Maharaja, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, and the Six Gosvamis took second initiation, and Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada took it. Why did they take diksa initiation if it is not essential? You should know the gravity of this truth. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Nityananda Prabhu, Sri Advaita Acarya, Sri Gadadhara Pandita, Sri Isvara Puri, and Sri Madhavendra Puri have all taken diksa. Why, then, should we not take it? Why is it not essential? If it is not essential, then why did Sri Sanatana Gosvami write about it in his Sri Hari-bhakti-vilasa? Why did Sri Gopal Bhatta Gosvami also write about it? Did he say it was useless? Those who say that diksa is not essential will not be able to answer these questions in hundreds and millions of years.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu took initiation even though he is the Lord of lords - Radha and Krsna combined - and yet He went to Gaya and took initiation. He vividly explained this fact in a gathering of sannyasis in Kasi when those sannyasis asked Him, "O, You are a very young and qualified sannyasi. Why do you not hear Vedanta? Why do you engage in singing and dancing and rolling on the ground? A sannyasi should not dance and do all these things." Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied by telling them of the order of His guru, Sri Isvara Puripada:

Mahaprabhu said, "Guru mora murkha dekhi - My Guru Maharaja told me that because I am foolish and unintelligent, I am not qualified to study Vedanta. He said that instead I should always chant Hare Krsna and I should remember this verse:

harer nama harer nama

harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva

nasty eva gatir anyatha

(Caitanya Caritamrta Adi-lila 17.21)

["In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari."]

But Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu not only took harinama from His gurudeva; He also took second initiation through the gopal-mantra. In our parampara, in order to purify one's chanting and to and give the chanter a relationship with Krsna who has kindly taken the form of His holy name, the gopal-mantra is given along with harinama. Up until Caitanya Mahaprabhu's manifested pastimes only the gopal-mantra was given. Later, Srila Dhyanacandra Gosvami and Srila Gopal-guru Gosvami gave the regulations we now follow. They gave brahma-gayatri, guru-mantra, guru-gayatri, gaura-mantra, gaura-gayatri, krsna-mantra (gopal-mantra) and finally kama-gayatri. This is the process followed in our sampradaya as begun by Srila Gopal-guru Gosvami, who is a disciple of Vakresvara Pandita, who is an associate of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

[Beggar 0]

Caitanya Mahaprabhu quoted His gurudeva saying, "Krsna-mantra japa sada - ei mantra-sara. You must always chant the holy name of Krsna. This is the essence of all mantras, or Vedic hymns."

krsna-mantra haite habe samsara-mocana

krsna-nama haite pabe krsnera carana

["Simply by chanting the holy name of Krsna one can obtain freedom from material existence. Indeed, simply by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra one will be able to see the lotus feet of the Lord."]

The offenseless chanting of the holy name does not depend on the initiation process. But that name must be the pure name, and how will it become so? It can only become pure through that diksa process; otherwise it is not possible. It is not that the holy name is not pure, but if a person is not a pure devotee he cannot chant the pure name. He can only chant syllables that sound like the name. He can only chant offenses to the name (nama-aparadha) or a shadow of the name (nama-abhasa). Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu chanted the pure name, and therefore He was able to tell His gurudeva:

kiba mantra dila, gosani, kiba tara bala

japite japite mantra karila pagala

["'My dear lord, what kind of mantra have you given Me? I have become mad simply by chanting this maha-mantra!'"(Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 7.81)]

Caitanya Mahaprabhu told the sannyasis, "You ask why I dance and sing and roll on the ground. Here is the reason: When My gurudeva initiated me, he gave me both the harinama mantra and the gopal mantra." Then He said, "japite japite mantra." If He had only received harinama, the maha-mantra, He would not have said the word "mantra"? Mantra especially refers to gopal-mantra and kama-gayatri. He first received harinama and then gopal-mantra. "Japite japite mantra karila pagala - and this made Me mad. Krsna nama mantra - meaning gopal and maha mantra made Him "like a madman".

For those who always remember and meditate on the gopal-mantra and kama-gayatri, by the power of the mantra, rati (bhava-bhakti) will at once enter their hearts. It has been written in Caitanya-caritamrta: Antya-lila 4.192:

diksa-kale bhakta kare atma-samarpana

sei-kale krsna tare kare atma-sama

["At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Krsna accepts him to be as good as Himself."]

First initiation is called harinama initiation only, and the second initiation is called diksa. Atma samarpana - at the time of diksa the disciple totally surrenders unto the feet of his gurudeva. Sei-kale. At that time Krsna gives the shelter of His lotus feet, and He makes that disciple atma-sama, very near and dear to Him.

According to the Vaisnava regulative principles, one must be initiated as a brahmana. As quoted in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.6) from the Visnu-yamala, Lord Sankara says to his wife Parvati:

adiksitasya vamoru krtam sarvam nirarthakam

pasu-yonim avapnoti diksa-virahito janah

"O Vamaru - O beautiful Parvati. Regarding those who have not taken diksa, all their devotional activities, such as sadhana, bhajana, and puja, have all gone in vain. They are all useless. Such persons who are not properly initiated must again enter the many animals species."

In addition, it has been told that nama can give everything, including Krsna-prema, simply by touching the tongue. It is stated in Padyavali, a book compiled by Srila Rupa Gosvami:

akrstih krta-cetasam su-manasam uccatanam camhasam

acandalam amuka-loka-sulabho vasyas ca mukti-sriyah

no diksam na ca sat-kriyam na ca purascaryam manag iksate

mantro 'yam rasana-sprg eva phalati sri-krsna-namatmakah

["'The holy name of Lord Krsna is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that, save for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krsna is the controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Krsna. When a person simply chants the holy name with his tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for any of these activities. It is self-sufficient.'"(quoted in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 15.110]

Can this occur if one's chanting is not pure? This is the question that has been raised here. Can this occur without diksa? In the Hari-bhakti-vilasa (17.4-5, 7) it is stated:

vina yena na siddhah syan mantro varsa-satair api

krtena yena labhate sadhako vanchitam phalam

purascarana-sampanno mantro hi phala-dhayakah

atah puraskriyam kuryat mantra-vit siddhi-kanksaya

puraskriya hi mantranam pradhanam viryam ucyate

virya-hino yatha dehi sarva-karmasu na ksamah

purascarana-hino hi tatha mantrah prakirtitah

["Without performing the purascarya activities, one cannot become perfect even by chanting this mantra for hundreds of years. But one who has undergone the purascarya-vidhi process can attain success very easily. If one wishes to perfect his initiation, he must first undergo the purascarya activities. The purascarya process is the life force by which one is successful in chanting the mantra. Without the life force, one cannot do anything; similarly, without the life force of purascarya-vidhi, no mantra can be perfected." (quoted in Srila Prabhupada's purport to Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 15.108)]

Srila Jiva Gosvami has quoted a verse, in order to further dissolve any misunderstanding in this regard. In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283-84), Srila Jiva Gosvami describes the importance of Deity worship and initiation (diksa) as follows:

avasyakatvam nasti, tad vinapi saranapattyadinam ekatarenapi purusartha-siddher abhihitatvat, tathapi sri-naradadi-vartmanusaradbhih sri-bhagavata saha sambandha-visesam diksa-vidhanena sri-guru-carana-sampaditam cikirsadbhih krtayam diksayam arcanam avasyam kriyetaiva.

yadyapi svarupato nasti, tathapi prayah svabhavato dehadi-sambandhena kadarya-silanam viksipta-cittanam jananam tat-tat-sankoci-karanaya srimad-rsi-prabhrtibhir atrarcana-marge kvacit kvacit kacit kacin maryada sthapitasti.

["It is Srimad-Bhagavatam's opinion that the process of Deity worship is not actually necessary, just as the specific prescriptions of the Pancaratra and other scriptures do not have to be followed. The Bhagavatam enjoins that even without practicing Deity worship one can achieve the complete success of human life by any of the other devotional processes, such as simply offering oneself at the Lord's feet for His protection. Nonetheless Vaisnavas, following the path of Sri Narada and his successors, endeavor to establish a personal relationship with the Lord by receiving the grace of a bona fide spiritual master through initiation, and in this tradition the devotees are obliged at the time of initiation to begin engaging in Deity worship. "Although Deity worship is not essential, the material conditioning of most candidates for devotional service requires that they engage in this activity. When we consider their bodily and mental conditions, we find that the character of such candidates is impure and their minds are agitated. Therefore, to rectify this material conditioning the great sage Narada and others have at different times recommended various kinds of regulations for Deity worship." (quoted in Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 15.108 purport)]

Simply by the tongue touching the Krsna-mantra, that holy name gives all kinds of perfection, including krsna-dasya and radha dasya. But Srila Jiva Gosvami has written a very clear commentary to this verse, and you should note this down in your heart for continual remembrance. In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283) he has written:

dvijanam anupetanam svakarmadhyayanadisu

yathadhikaro nastiha syac copanayanad anu

tathatradiksitanam tu mantra-devarcanadisu

nadhikaro 'sty atah kuryad atmanam siva-samstutam

["Even though born in a brahmana family, one cannot engage in Vedic rituals without being initiated and having a sacred thread. Although born in a brahmana family, one becomes a brahmana only after initiation and the sacred thread ceremony. Unless one is initiated as a brahmana, one cannot worship the holy name properly." (quoted in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 15.108)] [see Endnote]

It is true that simply by touching the tongue krsna-nama can give everything, but the material tongue, the tongue of the conditioned soul cannot touch the transcendental holy name.

atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih

sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah

["With the material senses one cannot understand the transcendental holy name of the Lord or His form, activities and pastimes. But when one actually engages in devotional service, utilizing the tongue, the Lord is revealed." Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.2.234)]

Sri Narada Muni, and other previous acaryas like Brahma, Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana, and Sanat Kumar, have all taken diksa. One receives diksa and then he performs his sadhana bhajana and worships his istadeva (worshipful deity), Radha and Krsna. Srila Jiva Gosvami has written that without diksa there will be no relationship with Krsna - neither, dasya, sakya, vatsalya nor madhurya. It will never be possible without diksa. In our sampradaya, sambandha-jnana comes only by uttering "gopijana-vallabhaya"; otherwise it cannot come.

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has written an explanation of this same verse, and therein he vividly explains that one may have given up all kinds of sadhana and pious activities. He may be chanting and remembering the holy names of Bhagavan and he may have determined that his istadeva is Krsna. Still, if he has not taken initiation from a Vaisnava guru, thinking that it is not essential, he can never achieve Krsna. The only good result he achieves is that he will not go to hell. He cannot achieve the lotus feet of Krsna, in any life, until he is properly initiated. In a future life, by the fruit of his previous activities of bhajana, he will take birth in a very religious family and there he will have sadhu-sanga, guru padasraya, and then diksa. At that time he will make solid advancement in bhakti. This is the only way.

Also, Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami has written in the first verse of his Sri Manah-Siksa:

Gurau gosthe gostalayisu sujane bhusura-gane

sva-mantre sri -namni vraja-nava-yuva-dvandva-sarane

sada dambham hitva kuru ratim apurvam atitara-

maye svantar bhratas catubhir abhiyace dhrta-padah

["O my dear brother my foolish mind! Taking hold of your feet, I humbly pray to you with sweet words. Please give up all pride and quickly develop sublime and incessant rati for Sri Gurudeva, Sri Vraja-dhama, the residents of Vraja, the Vaisnavas, the brahmanas, my diksa-mantras, the holy names of the Supreme Lord, and the shelter of Kisora-Kisori, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, the eternally youthful divine couple of Vraja."]

Why has he said "mantra" if diksa initiation is not necessary? Why he has not said only "Sri namni"? What is sva-mantra? There is some difference between mantra and harinama, and that is why he has told his mind, "You should develop sublime and unprecedented attachment for both. Take shelter of nama and mantra, and then your life will be successful." So there are two things - not one. Srila Raghunatha has written, '"Sada dambham hitva kuru ratim apurvam - O mind, you should give up your false pride and try to develop sublime and unprecedented attachment for both." His guru gave him mantra, and that is diksa.

We should now reconcile all these things.

[Endnote: The quote of Srila Prabhupada speaking in Paris in 1973, as quoted by Sripad Padmanabha Maharaja in the beginning of this lecture, refers to this verse of Srila Jiva Gosvami.]

[Bishadi 0]

 

After Srila Sridhar Maharaj had been in the Math for a few years in the early 1930s, one of his former classmates came to see him. Srila Sridhar Maharaj knew that his former friend was a staunch advaitan and Gandhi-ite so he really didn't want to spend much time with him. His "friend" asked him rather sarcastically, "Oh, you have been in these red rags (saffron cloth) for so much time, what have you learned." Srila Sridhar Maharaj replied, "I have learned that everything that Vivekananda and Rama Krishna have said is wrong!" His "friend" was mortified and immediately left the Math.

 

Did they even have a word 'computer' in the 1930's?

 

Was the knowledge of 'relativity' (although incomplete) even available to the public (any person of choice/means)?

 

could a person sit in one spot and observe more knowledge, than even avilable in the library of congress?

 

seems maybe even the math of electricity usage and calculations was not even available to the general public.

 

Perhaps, to maintain spirituality over and above practicle application may have been a lucrative pursuit for any who are complacent with just staying with the existing paradigm versus remaining truthful to existence recognizing there is much to learn.

 

Meaning anyone can see that Galileo was superceeded by Newton and then to Einstein. Just that same from the old words of sankrit to Srila's English.

 

Time, experience and observation to how knowledge has evolved; offers a simple solution to this personification of change.

 

Perhaps today has a greater advantage to observing more knowledge then ever before?

 

Perhaps today has much more truth to convey then ever before?

 

Who is the know it all? Who has all the answers?

 

Then we are all students! Humble to keep the intent of developing within the definitions of change.

 

Does this make sense?

[Beggar 0]

 

...could a person sit in one spot and observe more knowledge, than even available in the library of congress?

 

 

All levels of transcendental knowledge are qualitative not quantitative.

The highest level of transcendental knowledge is realization of Bhagavan, the personality of Godhead. Such realization is not dependent on technology.

[Bishadi 0]

 

All levels of transcendental knowledge are qualitative not quantitative.

The highest level of transcendental knowledge is realization of Bhagavan, the personality of Godhead. Such realization is not dependent on technology.

 

can a 2 year old child in a room with shoes and shoe laces (qualitatively capable) ....... put the material to use with proper comprehension (knowledge of steps; quantative understanding)

 

Or simply how the heck can any child know 'anything' works without a quantity of knowledge to establish comprehension?

 

So then as children: if you cannot share how life exist, then you are still learning.

[theist 1]

I don't accept the puport to Jiva Gosvami's definition of diksa as given by NM. In fact to me he has turned it inside out.

 

["Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa." (quoted in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta: Madhya 15. 108 purp)]

 

To me this statement covers what diksha is.

"Diksha is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity."

Does this not describe the chanting of the Holy Names? I f chanting the Holy Names does not vanquish all sinful reactions then what does it do? hearing SB from the proper source is also part of the diksa process because itimparts transcendental knowledge.

 

According to NM it only is refering to the acceptance of gayatri mantra.

 

I reject his conclusion. Take your pick and take your chances.

 

[cbrahma 0]

 

In 1977 Prabhupada created an institution of GBC for life, which went against his earlier DOM instructions. DOM itself provides for certain level of centralization as well. BBT was centralized from day 1 by Prabhupada. To blame Iskcon bureaucracy and centralization on GM is a total joke, invented by the GBC Isk-CON artists to cover up their own failures.

 

We are given the 'Prabhupada said' from the GBC. It was never centralized over a whole continent as it is now. You're engaged in a self-deception on the GM side if you think the GM had no part to play in the guru travesty and the big structured guru-oversight committee.

[Beggar 0]

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

It is true that diksa-purascarya (initiation and the purifictory activities performed before initiation) is not needed in all circumstances; but we should know something about the actual meaning of this verse. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada has written a book of rules and regulations in deity worship called Arcana Dipika, and there he has explained that harinama is bhagavata-svarupa, the actual form of Krsna and Radha, and for this reason it is stated in Sri Siksastakam, "Param vijayate sri krsna-sankirtana." By chanting and remembering Krsna's names, all kinds of perfection - like vraja-prema and even radha-dasya (becoming a maid servant of Srimati Radhika) - can be attained. In the first stage, however, when a devotee is uttering the holy name he is full with many aparadhas, and also anarthas such as laya (sleep), viksepa (distraction), apratipatti (indifference or disinterest in spiritual topics), and so on. It is guaranteed that such a person cannot utter the pure name. Rather, his chanting will be nama-aparadha. Chanting the pure name is only possible after the diksa-samskara.

 

The first highlighted sentence and the last three highlighted sentences appear contradictory. It appears he is saying that almost always the anarthas do no clear in one lifetime, so that the sadhaka needs the help of diksa - receiving the gayatri mantras from Sri guru. So the essence is the same as what Srila Sridhar Maharaja gave, that the gayatri mantras will help us come to the stage of suddha nama. What Srila Narayana Maharaja is saying is that suddha nama comes so rarely without this kind of help that it becomes imperative to accept diksa. This kind of topic for a fallen soul like myself is almost ridiculous.

[cbrahma 0]

 

This is what shastras and Prabhupada say about diksa for example - no out of context single line quotes:

 

CC Madhya Ch.15. TEXT 108

TEXT

diksa-purascarya-vidhi apeksa na kare

jihva-sparse a-candala sabare uddhare

SYNONYMS

diksa--initiation; purascarya--activities before initiation; vidhi--regulative principles; apeksa--reliance on; na--not; kare--does; jihva--the tongue; sparse--by touching; a-candala--even to the lowest of men, the candala; sabare--everyone; uddhare--delivers.

TRANSLATION

"One does not have to undergo initiation or execute the activities required before initiation. One simply has to vibrate the holy name with his lips. Thus even a man in the lowest class [candala] can be delivered.

PURPORT

Srila Jiva Gosvami explains diksa in his Bhakti-sandarbha (283):

divyam jnanam yato dadyat

kuryat papasya sanksayam

tasmad dikseti sa prokta

desikais tattva-kovidaih

"Diksa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as diksa."

 

Exactly - diksa is a process.

 

 

The regulative principles of diksa are explained in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.3,4) and in Bhakti-sandarbha (283). As stated:

dvijanam anupetanam svakarmadhyayanadisu

yathadhikaro nastiha syac copanayanad anu

tathatradiksitanam tu mantra-devarcanadisu

nadhikaro 'sty atah kuryad atmanam siva-samstutam

"Even though born in a brahmana family, one cannot engage in Vedic rituals without being initiated and having a sacred thread. Although born in a brahmana family, one becomes a brahmana after initiation and the sacred thread ceremony. Unless one is initiated as a brahmana, he cannot worship the holy name properly."

 

Whose talking about Vedic rituals? This is Kali Yuga.

 

According to the Vaisnava regulative principles, one must be initiated as a brahmana. The Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.6) quotes the following injunction from the Visnu-yamala:

adiksitasya vamoru

krtam sarvam nirarthakam

pasu-yonim avapnoti

diksa-virahito janah

"Unless one is initiated by a bona fide spiritual master, all his devotional activities are useless. A person who is not properly initiated can descend again into the animal species."

 

This begs the question of formal initiation and since this must mean brahminical initation, this is clearly out of context and does not address nama-kirtana

 

 

Hari-bhakti-vilasa (2.10) further quotes:

ato gurum pranamyaivam

sarva-svam vinivedya ca

grhniyad vaisnavam mantram

diksa-purvam vidhanatah

"It is the duty of every human being to surrender to a bona fide spiritual master. Giving him everything-body, mind and intelligence-one must take a Vaisnava initiation from him."

 

The operative term here is 'bona fide'.

 

 

The Bhakti-sandarbha (298) gives the following quotation from the Tattva-sagara:

yatha kancanatam yati

kasyam rasa-vidhanatah

tatha diksa-vidhanena

dvijatvam jayate nrnam

"By chemical manipulation, bell metal is turned into gold when touched by mercury; similarly, when a person is properly initiated, he can acquire the qualities of a brahmana."

The Hari-bhakti-vilasa (17.11,12) in discussing the purascarya process, quotes the following verses from Agastya-samhita:

puja traikaliki nityam

japas tarpanam eva ca

homo brahmana-bhuktis ca

purascaranam ucyate

guror labdhasya mantrasya

prasadena yatha-vidhi

pancangopasana-siddhyai

puras caitad vidhiyate

"In the morning, afternoon and evening, one should worship the Deity, chant the Hare Krsna mantra, offer oblations, perform a fire sacrifice, and feed the brahmanas. These five activities constitute purascarya. To attain full success when taking initiation from the spiritual master, one should first perform these purascarya processes."

The word purah means "before" and carya means "activities." Due to the necessity of these activities, we do not immediately initiate disciples in the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. For six months, a candidate for initiation must first attend arati and classes in the sastras, practice the regulative principles and associate with other devotees. When one is actually advanced in the purascarya-vidhi, he is recommended by the local temple president for initiation. It is not that anyone can be suddenly initiated without meeting the requirements. When one is further advanced by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra sixteen rounds daily, following the regulative principles and attending classes, he receives the sacred thread (brahminical recognition) after the second six months.

In the Hari-bhakti-vilasa (17.4,5,7) it is stated:

vina yena na siddhah syan

mantro varsa-satair api

krtena yena labhate

sadhako vanchitam phalam

purascarana-sampanno

mantro hi phala-dhayakah

atah puraskriyam kuryat

mantravit siddhi-kanksaya

puraskriya hi mantranam

pradhanam viryam ucyate

virya-hino yatha dehi

sarva-karmasu na ksamah

purascarana-hino hi

tatha mantrah prakirtitah

"Without performing the purascarya activities, one cannot become perfect even by chanting this mantra for hundreds of years. However, one who has undergone the purascarya-vidhi process can attain success very easily. If one wishes to perfect his initiation, he must first undergo the purascarya activities. The purascarya process is the life-force by which one is successful in chanting the mantra. Without the life-force, one cannot do anything; similarly, without the life force of purascarya-vidhi, no mantra can be perfected."

In his Bhakti-sandarbha (283), Srila Jiva Gosvami states:

yadyapi sri-bhagavata-mate pancaratradi-vat arcana-margasya avasyakatvam nasti, tad vinapi saranapattyadinam ekatarenapi purusartha-siddher abhihitatvat, tathapi sri-naradadi-vartmanusaradbhih sri-bhagavata saha sambandha-visesam diksa-vidhanena sri-guru-carana-sampaditam cikirsadbhih krtayam diksayam arcanam avasyam kriyetaiva.

Of similar importance is diksa, which is explained as follows in Bhakti-sandarbha (284):

yadyapi svarupato nasti, tathapi prayah svabhavato dehadi-sambandhena kardaya-silanam viksipta-cittanam jananam tat-tat-sankoci-karanaya srimad-rsi-prabhrtibhir atrarcana-marge kvacit kvacit kacit kacin maryada sthapitasti.

Similarly in the Ramarcana-candrika it is stated:

vinaiva diksam viprendra

purascaryam vinaiva hi

vinaiva nyasa-vidhina

japa-matrena siddhida

 

And later on Prabhupada acceded that not all need to have brahminical initiation. But all of these activities go way beyond mere diksa.

 

 

In other words, the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra is so powerful that it does not depend on official initiation, but if one is initiated and engages in pancaratra-vidhi (Deity worship), his Krsna consciousness will awaken very soon, and his identification with the material world will be vanquished.

--------

 

So diksa is not a requirement for engaging in the most important Vaisnava activity - sravanam, kirtanam - chanting the Holy Name.

 

Prabhupada is translating 'jihva' in this verse one time as 'tongue', one time as 'lips'. But not tape recording

 

Nevertheless he used tape recordings. Your point being?

 

 

And where on earth do you get an impression from these quotes that diksa is some unimportant formality???

I get that formal diksa is formal and that formalities are by their nature only a symbolic religious expression, not absolutely required.

 

Prabhupada's many statements (and there is no 'out of context', their purpose being clear) on the subject that formal diksa is not required still stand and are not overturned since he was clearly not trying to establish the traditional Vedic culture in its entirety, but to push forward the Yuga-dharma which was the instruction of his spiritual master.

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Prabhupada's many statements (and there is no 'out of context', their purpose being clear) on the subject that formal diksa is not required still stand and are not overturned since he was clearly not trying to establish the traditional Vedic culture in its entirety, but to push forward the Yuga-dharma which was the instruction of his spiritual master.

 

we are coming full circle to the same point: that for some people diksa is too much, yet for serious sadhakas interested in preaching it is an undisputable necessity

[cbrahma 0]

 

This guy was never part of any temple or sanga, he is just an armchair wanna be quoting from veda base and wants to annoy people for attention to feed his jealousy of never having contact with a Sad-Guru.

 

His whole presentation is a fabrication and Prabupada would be the 1st to slam him if he was around for the way he speaks to Vaishnavas and twists his words that have already been twisted by the power hungry!

You are trapped in your own ignorant speculation. I lived as a brahmacari in the Winnipeg temple under Rocana dasa and later on in New Dwarka under Gopala bhata and then Rameswara. I also saw Prabhupad in Chicago. Nevertheless you will continue to fabricate what suits your purpose being a puffed up religionist.

BTW no mental speculation is one of the regulative principles - or did they forget to mention that during your fire ritual. As far as twisting is concerned, I've said a dozen times Prabhupada's statements speak clearly and unambiguously for themselves. I quote him. You do not.

[cbrahma 0]

 

we are coming full circle to the same point: that for some people diksa is too much, yet for serious sadhakas interested in preaching it is an undisputable necessity

You tried to establish formal diksa as an absolute requirement for engagement in Krsna consciousness. Nothing Prabhupada said proves this. Also, it as nothing to do with it being 'too much'. What's a fire sacrifice cost?

It has to do with

1. separating the religion from the spiritual process.

2. the paucity of bona fide acaryas.

 

 

On Chanting

 

By Srila Prabhupada

Chanting the transcendental vibration Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is the sublime method for reviving our transcendental consciousness, or Krishna consciousness.

As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krishna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere, called maya, or illusion. And what is this illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws. When a servant artificially tries to imitate the all-powerful master, he is said to be in illusion. We are trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities. Therefore, although we are engaged in a hard struggle to conquer nature, we are becoming ever more dependent on her. This illusory struggle against material nature can be stopped at once by revival of our eternal Krishna consciousness.

Krishna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear and chant the transcendental vibration Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, this consciousness is revived.

This simplest method of meditation is recommended by learned authorities for this age. By practical experience also, one can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or the Great Chant for Deliverance, one at once feels transcendental ecstasy coming through from the spiritual stratum.

In the material concept of life we are busy in the matter of sense gratification, as if we were in the lower, animal stage. A little elevated from this status of sense gratification, one engages in mental speculation for the purpose of getting out of the material clutches. A little elevated from this speculative status, when one is intelligent enough, one tries to find out the supreme cause of all causes, within and without. And when one is factually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane. The chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra is directly enacted from this spiritual platform, and thus this sound vibration surpasses all lower strata of consciousness—namely sensual, mental, and intellectual.

There is no need, therefore, to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of any mental speculation or intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and thus anyone can take part in the chanting without any previous qualification and dance in ecstasy. We have seen this practically. Even a child can take part in the chanting and dancing.

So much for the exclusivistic power-centric claims of the religionist.

 

First of all we could discuss whether Sri Krishna Bhajanamrita actually falls under the category of shastra, or scriptural authority universally accepted as valid by acharyas in our disciplic succession, and what precisely does it mean. Especially if confronted with other scriptuaral injunctions or opinions of other acharyas in similar matters (fall downs and guru qualifications). Then we could address the notion that not all fall downs might be of the same gravity and hence we may need to exercise some judgement in such situations. Repeated falldowns over a long period of time versus one time incidents may also be a factor in such deliberations. We may also ponder the consequences to the institution of parampara (in this case ISKCON) once the knowledge of such a guru fall-down becomes public. This is a very important consideration in this case. Like I said: an individual is free to act as they like in this case, but such a freedom is not quite available to the institution like ISKCON. It is NOT a private matter anymore. That is the gist of my objection to your statement. And lastly, we may want to consider the gravity of a particular situation (fall-down) in the light of Srila Prabhupada's instructions dealing specifically with that sinful activity. Do you want me to quote Prabhupada on homosexuality? Some Vaishnava shastras (like Hari-bhakti-vilasa) list hunderds of rules, many of which we do not follow. Even Prabhupada did not follow some of these injunctions. Please do not tell me that all scriptural injunctions are the same, and are all to be blindly followed by us

somebody called kula-pavana posted this.

[theist 1]

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

The first highlighted sentence and the last three highlighted sentences appear contradictory. It appears he is saying that almost always the anarthas do no clear in one lifetime, so that the sadhaka needs the help of diksa - receiving the gayatri mantras from Sri guru. So the essence is the same as what Srila Sridhar Maharaja gave, that the gayatri mantras will help us come to the stage of suddha nama. What Srila Narayana Maharaja is saying is that suddha nama comes so rarely without this kind of help that it becomes imperative to accept diksa. This kind of topic for a fallen soul like myself is almost ridiculous.

 

Yes but Sridhar Maharaja is very clear that the purifying agent in the gayatri is actually the holy name of Krishna and not all the other words. I cannot accept that there is a purifying agent stronger than the holy name itself. To suggest that a gayatri mantra is such an agent is not harmonizing Sridhar maharaja's words, it is directly contradicting his whole point that the holy name alone is the active agent.

 

These may be a problem we encounter when we try to hear from all sources. All these teachers are not saying exactly the same thing.

[Beggar 0]

 

...Prabhupada's many statements (and there is no 'out of context', their purpose being clear) on the subject that formal diksa is not required still stand and are not overturned since he was clearly not trying to establish the traditional Vedic culture in its entirety, but to push forward the Yuga-dharma which was the instruction of his spiritual master.

What cbrahma still doesn't know:

 

The goal of The Krsna Consciousness Movement is not Krsna, it is Krsna prema, love of Krsna, prema pumartho mahan. You can only get love of Krsna from someone who has it. Although it is lying dormant in our hearts in must be unlocked by someone who has it unlocked.

 

What else cbrahma doesn't know:

That the Yuga Dharma of every kali yuga is to chant the names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But in this kali yuga, once in a day of Brahma, the age immediately after Krsna's pastimes in Gokula Vrndavana during dvarpura yuga, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu comes to give prema nama. In other kali yugas the holy named is preached by Gaura Narayana but this yuga avatara is spreading the kind of Krsna prema found in the hearts of the residents of Vraja-dhama. This Saci Nandana Gaura Hari is none other than Krsna with the mood and luster of Srimati Radharani. This is the inner meaning of Gauravani pracarine in Srila Prabhupada's pranam mantras as revealed by his intimate friend and servitor Srila Narayana Maharaja.

[Beggar 0]

 

These may be a problem we encounter when we try to hear from all sources. All these teachers are not saying exactly the same thing.

Sri Guru and His Grace

From Chapt. Nine:

 

Student: Many devotees cannot understand how it is that someone can have two gurus.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

That is because they are situated in a formal position, but when they enter into the substantial spiritual realization, they will not have such a grievance because they will see what is guru . Guru means one who has come to give Krsna consciousness. The formal difference will be reduced when one can catch the very substance of the teachings for which the guru is respected. When one is intimately connected with the thread of divine love which the guru comes to impart to us, he will accept it, wherever it comes from. He will see it as a friendly relation, not antagonistic, but cooperative.

Although separate in figure, at heart both of the gurus are the same because they have a common cause. They have not come to fight with one another; they have come to fight only with the agents of Satan. If we can recognize the real thing for which we are approaching the guru, then we will understand how to make the adjustment in our relationship with the siksa guru, diksa guru, and vartma-pradarsaka guru.

[♣♣♣ 0]

I lived as a brahmacari in the Winnipeg temple under Rocana dasa and later on in New Dwarka under Gopala bhata and then Rameswara.

Just see not even the infamous Rameswara would accept you as a disciple, this explains alot! Gopala Bhatta was my Guru Bhai from Detroit from way back before he was TP in LA (BTW he sent for me be his assitant in LA) so I guess you must have been one of those we didn't pay much attention to, what was your name then, Bhakta Louie?

[♣♣♣ 0]

 

 

I HAVE THE QUOTES!

 

[theist 1]

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by theist

These may be a problem we encounter when we try to hear from all sources. All these teachers are not saying exactly the same thing.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

Sri Guru and His Grace

From Chapt. Nine:

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Student: Many devotees cannot understand how it is that someone can have two gurus.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

That is because they are situated in a formal position, but when they enter into the substantial spiritual realization, they will not have such a grievance because they will see what is guru . Guru means one who has come to give Krsna consciousness. The formal difference will be reduced when one can catch the very substance of the teachings for which the guru is respected. When one is intimately connected with the thread of divine love which the guru comes to impart to us, he will accept it, wherever it comes from. He will see it as a friendly relation, not antagonistic, but cooperative.

Although separate in figure, at heart both of the gurus are the same because they have a common cause. They have not come to fight with one another; they have come to fight only with the agents of Satan. If we can recognize the real thing for which we are approaching the guru, then we will understand how to make the adjustment in our relationship with the siksa guru, diksa guru, and vartma-pradarsaka guru. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

 

Sure we can have hundreds of gurus as long as we have only one guru and that guru is Caitya-guru and the gurus are situated in the way described below.

 

 

Student: Many devotees cannot understand how it is that someone can have two gurus.

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

That is because they are situated in a formal position, but when they enter into the substantial spiritual realization, they will not have such a grievance because they will see what is guru . Guru means one who has come to give Krsna consciousness.

 

You are not in the position Sridhar was talking about or you wouldn't be stumbling over this diksa question which you surely are. Clearly NM is not saying what BR SM is which is the same as what I find in Srila Prabhupada's teaching.

 

Pretending they are saying the same thing is only self delusion. Everyone is free to choose one or the other but you can't agree with them both.

[theist 1]

 

I lived as a brahmacari in the Winnipeg temple under Rocana dasa and later on in New Dwarka under Gopala bhata and then Rameswara.

Just see not even the infamous Rameswara would accept you as a disciple, this explains alot! Gopala Bhatta was my Guru Bhai from Detroit from way back before he was TP in LA (BTW he sent for me be his assitant in LA) so I guess you must have been one of those we didn't pay much attention to, what was your name then, Bhakta Louie?

 

Oh my! 3 dot must have really been part of the Iskcon in-crowd. We wouldn't have caught him paying any attention to any ordinary plain and simple devotees now would we?

 

You poor puffed up loser. You want to be respected amongst the devotees? Then serve the lowest weakest devotee in the room, offer him respect and don't expect respect in return. In such a humble state of mind the Lord will let you chant His Holy names constantly.

[♣♣♣ 0]

My response is very approproiate for this numbskull cbrahma who is making a total fool of himself along with his nasty attitude to Vaishnavas.

 

BTW, what is YOUR devotional background, 'forums'?

 

please answer VERY specifically

 

[Vedesu 0]

 

Gopala Bhatta was my Guru Bhai from Detroit from way back before he was TP in LA (BTW he sent for me be his assitant in LA)

 

Small world! He was my Guru Bhai there as well, for a while. I also remember seeing Gopala Bhatta in Dallas in '79, but that might have been just after he was TP in LA, if I'm remembering correctly. I'm trying to place who you might be, but I've lost touch with the devotees I once knew in Detroit. Anyway, nice to have you here on the forums, Prabhu.

[AncientMariner 0]

 

 

 

 

You are not in the position Sridhar was talking about or you wouldn't be stumbling over this diksa question which you surely are. Clearly NM is not saying what BR SM is which is the same as what I find in Srila Prabhupada's teaching.

 

Pretending they are saying the same thing is only self delusion. Everyone is free to choose one or the other but you can't agree with them both.

 

 

I read the BR SM post and I found it to be consistent with my understanding of Prabhupada's writings so I find it puzzling how beggar has turned what BR SM said in that post into the living guru issue etc. Just don't get it. The writings of BR SM in that piece seem to be completely contradictory to what Kulapavana and some others have been saying in this thread about the absolute necessity of ceremonial initiation into the gayatri mantra and their seeming minimalization of the holy name etc. unless I am reading it wrong.

 

 

"The holy name of Krsna is so important that even the gayatri mantra may not be necessary. It is said na ca sat kriya, na dikse na ca purascarya manadilate mantrayam rasana spri hanato sri krsna namatmaka : "One need not undergo all the purificatory processes, or follow the six ritualistic ceremonies mentioned in the Vedas for pious life; one need not even take initiation into the gayatri mantra. If one simply chants the holy name of Krsna without offense, everything will be successful." The holy name of Krsna is the most important consideration. The gayatri mantra may not even be necessary.

We accept the mantra only to help the nama-bhajana, the worship of the holy name. Otherwise, it may not be necessary at all. It has been judged in such a way. The name alone can do everything for a person. lt is full and complete. The mantra helps us to do away with the aparadhas, offenses, and the abhasa, or hazy conceptions in our bhajana. The mantra comes to help us only so far."

 

 

Never have payed much attention to the writings of Prabhupadas Godbrothers but this one surely gets my attention because it seems to be in the same spirit that I get out of Prabhupada and I can appreciate that.

[♣♣♣ 0]

 

You want to be respected amongst the devotees? Then serve the lowest weakest devotee in the room, offer him respect and don't expect respect in return. In such a humble state of mind the Lord will let you chant His Holy names constantly.

 

gimme a break, sounds good on paper, but I think you need to practice what you preach.