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Trying To Sell Srila Prabhupada's Books

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Although we hear how the number of distributed books worldwide went down, when someone like Amayatma prabhu has a nice idea for distributing Prabhupada's books things suddenly get very difficult. Amazing story by Ameyatma das who started to put ads in a number of new age magazines advertising Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita AS It Is and other of his books.

 

 

 

1) I just recently dealt with the BBTi and Sri Gaurangi dd. Sri Gaurangi dd is a nice mataji who is simply a go-between trying to do her JOB (I cannot call it ’service’ since she is being paid to do her ’work’ at the BBTi). I am producing 3D posters of BBT artwork, and had to get permission and sign all the docs, etc. and pay for the files, and pay for each print i sell, at least as long as BBTi exists and i have no choice. It took a long time and many emails to get their permission because a BBT trustee had refused granting permission because he saw articles i wrote that he felt were an attack on the BBTi. He did not refer to any Rtvik articles, only one where I had rejected the changed books in favor of the original. I never attacked the BBT, but, he took that as an attack. After I emailed him an excerpt from the conversation where SP was informed of all the changes to the IsoPanishad and was upset about this, saying in the next printing it must be reversed back to the original, the Trustee relinquished and granted me permission.

 

However, during this time I asked why the BBTi was getting the money and no royalties were being paid to the actual artists? Aside from this, one artist, Bharadraj, back in 1996 when I told him of my plan back then to make 3D posters, he granted, verbally only, full permission to use any of his paintings without any royalty. So, I asked the BBTi why they feel they can charge a royalty fee when they are not paying any royalty to the devotee artists who did all the work. Sri Gaurangi felt it was a good question and passed it on. I never got a reply...

 

2) Back in 1988-1991, sometime in that time frame, I put ads in a number of new age magazines advertising SP’s Gita AS It Is and other of his books. (as well as lecture tapes, music tapes, videos, etc - japa bags, which i put together japa kits with SP japa tape, a page on how to chant, beads, and why, bead bag, incense and photo of Krsna as a Japa Mediation kit). I had gone to Sura at the BBT mailorder in LA and told him what I was up to. He agreed to sell me everything at wholesale. I was putting ads in New Age Journal, Mind Body and Spirit, Vegetarian Times, and the Yoga Journal. I had paid for 3 months per magazine for each ad, in advance, costing $1,000’s I also worked for about 2 months putting together my own catalog, the Bhakti-Vedanta Resouces catalog and even incorporated BVR in the state of Calif. I made my own catalog because at the time the BBT catalog was selling the BG AII for only $10. I raised the price to $25, still a bargain price for a book with so many full color plates. I spent several $1,000 more on the catalog.

All in all, I spent over $8,000 on putting all this together, all money i had borrowed from my mother. Sura knew everything. He even went with me to the BBT Archives (which was still in LA at the time) and allowed me access to 1,000’s of slides of SP where I selected the one I wanted to use in my ads. I then purchased a print for about $20 for that purpose.

 

When the first ad came out I started getting orders immediately. I called Sura with my first order. The first orders were okay. But, each day I got more orders, and every few days I was calling Sura with orders. The 2nd or 3rd package i got from him, the book covers were torn. Some books had bad scuff marks, some had torn pages. I was charging a good price, I couldn’t send that out. Since there was no packaging, I assumed the damage was caused by shipping. Sura had me file a claim with UPS, in the mean time, I had to re-order. Again, I got damaged books.

I complained to Sura, who argued at first, then finally told me to send them back, he would send others. I did, my customers wanted their books. (These ’customers’ were mostly also potential aspiring devotees, or at least people who were willingly and wantingly buying SP’s books - also, about 10-20% were old devotees no longer living at a temple). I got the tapes and japa beads from other sources, so those sales were doing fine. But, the BBT books were taking forever to get decent copies. After about 5 boxes with bad books, finally Sura sent me good copies.

 

But, then, after the first ad was out for about 3 weeks, just before the second ad came out, I got a letter from the BBTi, from Sri Ram. It was a CEASE and DESIST Immediately letter - under threat an immediate law suite to be filed for royalties and damages. What??? I called and was not allowed to speak to any one. I tried calling Sura, who also would not take my call. Finally, after some days, I got hold of Sri Ram. He claimed that I had published a photo of SP and of the Gita As It Is without BBTi permission, and thus had to IMMEDIATELY Cease from distributing SP’s books in this way.

WHAT??? I told him Sura had full knowledge what I was going to do, he helped me get the photo. According to Sri Ram that didn’t matter, since Sura worked only in Mail Order, he did not have authority to grant me permission, only Sri Ram did. I explained what i was doing, I was simply distributing SP’s books - why the CEASE and DESIST order? Sri Ram insisted that since I had not got BBT permission I was in violation of their copyrights. Okay, can you guys grant me permission? He then took note that I was selling the Gita for $25 and that the BBT was selling them to me for only around $5 each. He said that I was making a huge profit.... And that it was not right since the BBT was barely making $1 over the costs of printing, but I was making $20 per book. He argued that I was simply trying to ’USE’ SP to make a big profit at the cost of Prabhupad’s BBT.

I told him that price was not near enough, that the ads alone cost me many $1,000’s a month, that I have invested large sums into putting all this together, that even at $25 it would take me many months to just break even. He wasn’t listening, he broke off our first call and said he woudl have to consult with others. In the mean time, he told the CEASE and DESIST order stood. I told him I had already paid for 3 months of ads, in so many magazines, and that the next ad was coming out, there was no way to Cease. He told there was, because the BBT was no longer going to honor my orders for books. Rather, he insisted that I forward all orders directly to the BBT. But, I paid for those ads. Also, he demanded a full list of all my existing customers, so that the BBT could deal directly with them in the future. These were all things they took weeks to haggle with me over....

 

In the mean time, I had no inventory. So, as the orders kept coming in, I was not able to fulfill them. I did not agree to send the BBT a list of all my customers, or to forward orders to them, that was simply cutting me out entirely after I spent all the money to put all that together. We kept haggling over this for the next month. Sri Ram then, since we had not come to an agreement, told me that I had to PULL the next month’s ad, or he would have their lawyers sue for royalties. He was using the fact that I published a single SP’s photo without permission as a way to get me to pay higher royalites for my sales of the books. At one point he wanted to charge me $15 per Gita, $5 more then the BBT would sell retail to anyone else at the time. That was total madness. His reasoning was that since I was charging $25 per book, that still left me with $10 profit and the BBT with about $11. I told him the $10 would not pay for the ads, it was unworkable, and very wrong to charge me more then they charge retail. These were the dealings I had to go through. In the mean time I got another letter demanding the next ad be pulled, or a law suit would be filled. I had no choice.

 

I had paid for 3 months of ads in advance, and there was no refunds. All i got was 3 weeks of orders, still a number of Gitas were sold. But, after that I was not allowed to order any more books for the next ad, and the 3rd month ad was a total loss, as I was forced to pull it, without enough time to redo artwork. I lost over $5,000 due to the whole ordeal, all borrowed money. I went down to LA to discuss this with Sri Ram and Sura directly (at the time I was living up in N Calf, so it was a long drive ). Sri Ram was not in, and Sura was totally belligerent. As soon as he saw me he practically he went into a fit of anger, shouting, "You rascal, you are ripping off SP’s BBT, you forced Prabhupad to take back all those books that YOU (I) damaged.... I refuse to talk to someone who tries to Rip Off SP", and totally refused to talk to me.

 

After the 3rd month ad deadline, Sri Ram finally worked up an agreement where I was allowed permission to use a BBT photo of SP. but had to pay a monthly royalty, forget the amount. It was ridiculous, as I was spreading SP’s glories....

But, the agreement came too late. I didn’t have any way to pay for other ads. I lost $5,000. Then, a month later I get this weird call from Sura. He is all apologetic. Here is what he told me. When I first told him what I was doing, he thought it was great, so he helped me. But, then when the ad came out and he saw I was charging $25 for the Gita, he thought I was simply trying to make a big profit off of the BBT. He then asked Sri Ram, and Sri Ram said that back in the 70’s a devotee asked SP if the BBT should pay for ads to sell his books, and SP nipped it saying that placing ads is like gambling, it is business, and BBT was not formed as a business. SP said BBT cannot spend money for ads. So, both Sura and Sri Ram then felt that I was in total maya, paying for ads to sell Prabhupad’s books, so they started sending me books that had been damaged in the warehouse and sent me the Cease and Desist letter and went through all that haggling to ASSURE that I lost money and failed.

 

But, some of the GBC saw my ads, and the whole thing got brought up to the full GBC and this idea that I was in maya was presented - and totally knocked down. Many argued that it was first class business for a grhasta to advertise and sell Prabhupad’s books that way. The GBC commended my activities. So, Sura asked me to re-start it. I told him, you personally give me back the $5,000 you forced me to lose, and I will. Maybe Praghos will recall, Sura then got Praghos involved and asked that I meet with Praghos to see if he could take over what I started. I did meet with Praghos, but i was a bit fried from the whole ordeal. The problem was i no longer had the money to redo the ads, and neither did Praghos, so the whole thing died.

 

Even though this has nothing directly to do with what you are doing, it is my past experience of dealing with the BBTi over copyrights.... So, hope you all don’t mind the long story.. --ys ameyatma das

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Wow. Words fail. Does anyone know where Sripada Ameyatma Prabhu is now or have his e-mail? I know that he was here in Florida for years. Such intelligence and determination! And tolerance! May Guru-Gauranga bless him more and more!

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Why did you not put the ads in the magazines with directing the mail orders be sent direct to BBT?

 

Thus, all you would have been doing was to sponser ads for BBT's products in far-flung outlets [the magazines] listing the order-forms to be filled-out and sent to the 'mail order dept at BBT' to order from.

 

My belated suggestion this is still a good idea.

 

You would have still donated your time and money but their would have been no other work on your part.

 

Or you should have first purchased the inventory yourself by the case, stored it at home and then put an ad [to re-sell them] stating immediate delivery and availibilty.

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Why did you not put the ads in the magazines with directing the mail orders be sent direct to BBT?

 

 

Well yes this is obviously what the BBT wants from all the Vaishnavas, working hard day and night and spending all your money to post ads in esoteric magazines but don't earn one farthing to pay your bills.

Ameyatma das is not a sannyasi but a grhastha who needs some income, but even present ISKCON sannyasis only invest in profitable business plans. In Europe the BBT did it just the other way round, books are so expensive that even Sankirtan legend Manidhara das who travels in a campmobile since 30 years stopped to distribute Prabhupada's books since years and sells HongKong paintings instead - books can't even pay the gasoline for his camper what to speak of buying bhog for his deities. The BBT sells books so overpriced that you just end in a debt trap like the German yatra, 1 mio dollar debt.

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Here in the Uk, you can advertise for FREE, in Yellow Pages, The Phone Book, Thompson, if you have a business, big advert costs more.

 

x6bjuc.jpg

 

But do you get books from the British BBT when the orders are coming in? First find that out.

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I think its British BBTI. When i ordered Bhagavatam from krishnaculture, they came in thisMassive industrial bag, two of them. One book was little damage, i wonder about that, but they were so heavy i think that only way. Uk when i order books were perfect.

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I think its British BBTI. When i ordered Bhagavatam from krishnaculture, they came in thisMassive industrial bag, two of them. One book was little damage, i wonder about that, but they were so heavy i think that only way. Uk when i order books were perfect.

At the Indian BBT, http://www.indiabbt.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=149&osCsid=ba71d8662f8ee925d2f79bd2fb2594d4

it says, Bhagavad-gita, 131 Rs. what is approx. 1,6 British pounds.

What actually is the regular prive in GB for a Bhagavad-gita?

When ordering let's say, 1000 pieces, price should be lower.

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I think its about 7£ one gita. Bbt in london. I think 1000 wud be a lot maybe 3000pound.

That's what I thought if someone would start to sell Bhagavad-gitas you would need to sell for 25£ in order to pay the out-of pocket expenses, to pay your bills. And you need to sell 20-30 each day if for example you have to pay a rent. This cannot work.

Could be that for this reason absolutely nothing is bought anymore in the West, see pic.

On the other hand, it is obvious that ISKCON is NOT interested anymore to efficiently spread Prabhupada's books but has other sources of income.

 

vexhg1.jpg

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$25 is £12.50.

If they offer at the Indian BBT one Bhagavad-gita for £1.6 you would pay when buying a larger number probably less than £1. This is where things get reasonable to get into. Now just calculate, Great Britain has 56 million people if you make ads, how many people you could reach and how many would order a copy? Make a business plan, find a sponsor and order a containership from Asia to England. Heard they abolished the last Sankirtan van last week at the Manor.

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Ok no 1 ,i rely on myself, i wouldnt trust sponser (endof), no 2, i wudnt advertise. Far as business plan i wud thimk about advertising,(for free), as a book distributer. BY THE WAY I JUST FOUND MY CAR LICENCE,no car though. Maybe i call it Krishna-books seller. Anyway i dont have permision. And it wud not be for anybody cept for my guru, u know wat i mean.

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Ok no 1 ,i rely on myself, i wouldnt trust sponser (endof), no 2, i wudnt advertise. Far as business plan i wud thimk about advertising,(for free), as a book distributer. BY THE WAY I JUST FOUND MY CAR LICENCE,no car though. Maybe i call it Krishna-books seller. Anyway i dont have permision. And it wud not be for anybody cept for my guru, u know wat i mean.

 

Not that I meant that this is an option for you to get into. Just to high-light how easy it is to get things going and how the institutions corrupted just anything.

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