Bhaktivedanta Manor: I'll send this over to Fred

[suchandra 1]

ISKCON's European headquarter Bhaktivedanta Manor seems to presently face all kind of controversies to overcome. Opening a Gurukula which has de facto the same curriculum like any other karmi primary school, being told by local newspapers that they keep quiet when it is a known fact that the abortion rate of female babies among the Manor's Hindu community members is on records. Last but not least, guests like anonymous below wonder, why is it necessary that in Srila Prabhupada's legendary temple, donated by George Harrison, they sell a new Bhagavad-gita by Graham Schweig.

 

Bhagavad-gita - Another New Translation

BY: KRSNA DASA

 

Mar 23, UK (SUN) —

On Lord Caitanya's Appearance day, I spied a "new" translation of Bhagavad-gita for sale at Bhaktivedanta Manor book shop, Srila Prabhupada's temple. Amongst Srila Prabhupada's supreme books was a new translation by WHO..!!!? I felt quite disturbed…

 

I asked Indriyesha dasa about this and his reply was, what was my problem with the book? My problem is that this is Srila Prabhupada's temple, and who is the guy anyway? I found the Intro quite averse to Srila Prabhupada's style. I further added that I wasn't happy with "Lilamrta" minimizing Srila Prabhupada, to which Indriyesha shockingly answered that he felt too many people place Prabhupada on an unreal platform, i.e., on the level of Krishna. This from a rep from ISKCON educational services.

 

As per usual when confronting authority, I was asked how many rounds I'm chanting and what I'm doing to spread Krishna consciousness... I then understood why/how these people could associate Srila Prabhupada, the messenger from the spiritual world, with mundane Mayavadis, etc.

 

Check out the presentation of Srila Prabhupada on the ISKCON "

Heart of Hinduism

" webpage.

 

Apparently the author of the new Bhagavad-gita,

Graham Schweig

, is 'aka Garuda das' and because he's preaching to intellectuals, has to hide his identity to "attract" (?) them. I doubt there's mention of Srila Prabhupada in his work. It's madness, as evident below, that he cannot bring himself to recommend Srila Prabhupada's greatest

Bhagavad-gita As It Is

, but is persuaded to compose his own sanitized translation for his colleagues teaching Gita:

• "A collegue of mine approached me about his teaching a Bhagavad-gita class at the University and, because I am somewhat considered the resident expert on the subject, inquired as to what translation of the Bhagavad gita he should use? After standing there for about an hour, casually discussing the pros and cons of various editions, he said, "Well, why don't you do one?" and I queried back, "Do one what?A translation of the Bhagavad-gita" I thought that that was interesting and wondered if Princeton, who had just published my book Dance of Divine Love had it on their list to publish. But I didn't really think of it seriously.
  
  
  I happened to write to my editor at Princeton and asked, "Do you folks have the Bhagavad-gita on your list? That was all I said about that. She wrote back, "That's a wonderful idea. I'll send this over to Fred. Send a proposal in immediately."

 

 

[Pretender 0]

I agree that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhu's Gita is vastly superior to that of his disciple's version. Nonetheless I have some questions. For our panel of experts. Are there not some seeking souls whom might also be particularly benefitted by a disciple's version? Is this not succession or sampradaya? Or is the Absolute completely confined for all time? By a single author? And is this Mahaprabhu's philosophy? Sorry. That's more than one question. For our panel of experts.

[suchandra 1]

 

I agree that Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhu's Gita is vastly superior to that of his disciple's version. Nonetheless I have some questions. For our panel of experts. Are there not some seeking souls whom might also be particularly benefitted by a disciple's version? Is this not succession or sampradaya? Or is the Absolute completely confined for all time? By a single author? And is this Mahaprabhu's philosophy? Sorry. That's more than one question. For our panel of experts.

Since you're bringing up the point of experts, so far we have the tradition in human society that even a confectioner apprentice boy has to pass examination for the degree of master, open his own confectionery and then consider to invent some new creation of fancy cakes. So long he works under his boss and is not his own boss, he insightfully surrenders to what is being told by his master. Since we saw with our own eyes so many people appreciating Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita and becoming devotees of Lord Krishna by changing their lives in the opposite direction, another question arises, if something works, why change it? Prabhupada didn't entitle his Bhagavad-gita just Bhagavad-gita but Bhagavad-gita As It Is. He writes Bhagavad-gita As It Is so that his followers should conclude, I write a new edition of Bhagavad-Gita?

Let's say a jeweler assures, this is pure gold, gold as it is, why not accept, who would experiment to make new gold? But this seems the age we live in, nothing is considered as sacred, no taboo which is not broken.

 

 

1. Causelessmercy - Bhagavad-gita 4.1 and Review - New York, July 13, 1966

want to give a different interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, that may be a manifestation ... Mahatma Gandhi. He also wrote an interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, and he wanted to prove that

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/660713BG.NY.htm

</small>

2. Causelessmercy - Room Conversation - December 20, 1976, Bombay

If there is no reason then why there are so many interpretations of Bhagavad-gītā?Guest: (indistinct)Prabhupāda: (Hindi back and forth)Indian lady: (Hindi)Prabhupāda: So many

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/761220rc.bom.htm

</small>

3. Causelessmercy - Ebook - Raja-Vidya - The King of Knowledge - 5

Bhagavad-gītā was lost. Scholars may give their own interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, analyzing it according to their own whims, but that is not Bhagavad-gītā. This is the

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/RV5.htm

</small>

4. Causelessmercy - Ebook - Srimad-Bhagavatam - Canto 3 - 5.1

One cannot foolishly manufacture an interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā and still bring about transcendental benefit. Anyone who tries to squeeze some artificial meaning or

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/SB3.5.1.htm

</small>

5. Causelessmercy - Room Conversation - December 26, 1976, Bombay

Kṛṣṇa is saying the purātana, and these people are presenting new interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā. Just see. How much misuse has been done. Try to understand. No effect.

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/761226rc.bom.htm

</small>

6. Causelessmercy - Room Conversation - January 2, 1977, Bombay

Vaiṣṇava ācāryas were doing interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā Prabhupāda: The who is ācārya except the Vaiṣṇava ācārya? All loafer class. All loafer class. They re

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/770102rc.bom.htm

</small>

7. Causelessmercy - Ebook - Raja-Vidya - The King of Knowledge - 8

Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without personal interpretation or motivation. Some people present interpretations of Bhagavad-gītā, but we should present the words as they are spoken

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/RV8.htm

</small>

8. Causelessmercy - Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.2 - Vrndavana, October 24, 1976

Therefore we are protesting to all these rascals who are making interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, You rascals, you cannot do anything. You have to accept Kṛṣṇa s word. That

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/761024SB.VRN.htm

</small>

9. Causelessmercy - Ebook - Srimad-Bhagavatam - Canto 3 - 19.1

Lord, or their interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or any other Vedic literature, then he is doomed. Once one is associated with impersonalists, he can never

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/SB3.19.1.htm

</small>

10. Causelessmercy - Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.7 - Mayapur, February 14, 1976

There are so many hodge- podge interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā, and they are being read and being used for the last two hundred years ago, but there was no effective result. It

<small>http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/760214SB.MAY.htm</small>

[Pretender 0]

To use the jeweler's example there are different degrees of quality. Not all have the sukrti to "purchase" the best quality product and not all souls are interested in real devotion. You're quite right about nothing sacred anymore. Which is very sad thing. With nothing sacred there'e nothing to honor and so it has become very difficult for people to give honor or become honorable. Without honor and respect society crumbles into chaos.

 

Of course now there is also some controversy over whether Bhagavad-gita AS IT IS is Srila Prabhupada's version or that of the BBT editors.

 

We have seen greeat turmoil of misunderstanding amongst the reputed followers of Christ. Christ said this. Christ said that. But what did he mean?

 

Srila Prabhupada has always had people saying Prabhupada said this or that and he might indeed be quoted accurately. But what did he mean?

 

This is where the whole thing breaks down into concerns of viable functional literacy. For instance, they've done studies in America showing that half the American population is functionally illiterate. How they defined this functional literacy is if an individual can read a simple newspaper article and then paraphrase the gist using their own words. If you can't, you didn't really understand.

 

Please consider that although Srila Prabhupada always said he was just repeating what he had learned from Srila Saraswati Thakur, yet we can see their particular vernacular or modes of expression in the English language are different. Yet the gist of the core or essential ideas remain the same.

 

Do you know Garuda dasa? I myself had only briefest contacts with him in the Evanston(Chicago) ISKCON temple in 1977 where I found him to be an intelligent and sincerely dedicated follower of Srila Prabhupada. I don't think he meant his version as a replacement.

 

My favorite Gita is the original Collier version of As IT IS from 1968 with English only translation. I worship It like a Deity and named my older daughter Gita. Personally, I don't require diffferent translations as each time I pick up Srila Prabhupada's version I find new insights from just a few words of IT. Functionally, I'm still stuck on trying to really learn the Second chapter and pragmatically apply the teaching to my life.

 

For instance, it's one challenge to tolerate distress, but what about tolerating happiness?

[suchandra 1]

 

and pragmatically apply the teaching to my life.

 

For instance, it's one challenge to tolerate distress, but what about tolerating happiness?

Well, you're right, it always depends with whom one is discussing - especially nowadays - where it is a known fact that the reputation of Vaishnavism is pretty much tarnished and even laymen don't mince their words and ask this meanwhile justified question, are present Vaishnava leaders fully liberated persons?

 

Actually, without being liberated, nobody can understand Krishna.

And after all isn't this the goal of Bhagavad-gita, to fully understand and even see Krishna?

 

Tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad anantaram. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that first of all we have to become liberated. That is brahma-bhutah, simply to change the consciousness.

 

Simply? Obviously not so easy when this question is asked, once you're liberated why do people fall down again? Does that mean being liberated is so vage that you easily slip back? Or does it mean that all those big big leaders were not even situated on the brahma-bhutah platform and the whole process of Krishna consciousness is so difficult that it is hard to assume that presently there's a Vaishnava actually a liberated person?

 

Liberated in that sense that he/she also knows to uplift others to that platform.

Wouldn't this also mean that this person becomes like a magnet - all kind of people travel from far to meet him and there're genuine symptoms of spiritual love to be felt when seeing this Vaishnava?

 

Something what is obviously by Krishna's arrangement very, very rare in this world and even the gopis where lamenting, why did Krishna leave Vrindavan? Will He ever come back?

 

And when travelling so far to Kuruksetra to meet Krishna again and saying, You are still the same Krishna as in Vraja and I am the same Radharani, but did Krishna come back?

 

Radharani could not have Her intimate pastimes with the Lord of Her heart because of all the royal oppulence and Her voice choked and Her heart broke. And when returning to Vrindavan they spent the rest of their lives only crying.

 

 

Only for this reason ratha-yatra was invented, to bring Krishna back by using thick ropes.

Or could it be that we actually should read Garuda prabhu's Gita to reach that goal more quickly?

[Pretender 0]

No. I'm very fond of Sripada Guruda Prabhu but don't think I'll ever read his Gita. But I don't think it was intended for me or this audience and that it may somehow indeed be of some benefit to some audience. Nonetheless. Which is all I think he intended.

[suchandra 1]

 

No. I'm very fond of Sripada Guruda Prabhu but don't think I'll ever read his Gita. But I don't think it was intended for me or this audience and that it may somehow indeed be of some benefit to some audience. Nonetheless. Which is all I think he intended.

 

 

 

Garuda das's Gita

 

 

BY: KRSNA DASA

 

Mar 30, UK (SUN) —

I did write an insensitive piece about Garuda das and his Gita and I would like to apologise to all who have done their best to put me back in my place. I have now carefully read Garuda's intro to his book and can understand how intelligently he's presenting this translation attractively for the people in general....please excuse me on that front.

 

What I do feel still stands are my real concerns. It's the general disregard for His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and the exploitation of the facilities He gave us for a Krishna conscious society... Mahavidya das and his campaign exposing not just the Temple President of Bhaktivedanta Manor, but almost every other opportunist exacting more than tithes for their "service"

 

Graham Schweig is unknown to me. He is a professor in an American university. IF he is on a personal salary out of teaching Bhagavad Gita, what message is he sending? What is his profit by selling his books in Srila Prabhupada's temples and ISKCON websites? If by his illuminating presentation of Bhagavad Gita to the intellectual classes he is simultaneously living a life of renunciation (setting the example), then I have totally misrepresented him and his works. We have no right, however, to make business out of the gifts from Lord Sri Krishna and Srila Prabhupada.

 

What is an ordinary devotee to feel when he/she sees a book by Graham Schweig alongside the books of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada? Why is Graham Schweig selling his book here? Is he donating all his money to the BBT? Has he written this book purely out of service to the Supreme Lord, or is there some cut for himself? If he is receiving profit, then it cannot be pure service to Lord Sri Krishna and His pure devotee. The ordinary devotee working for Srila Prabhupada, in Srila Prabhupada's temple, developing his devotional service attitude for Lord Sri Krishna, is not expected to honor those who furnish their bank accounts, profiting from their knowledge or expertise.

 

Graham Schweig has written other books. One of them is on the rasa lila pastimes of Lord Sri Krishna. I believe in freedom of speech and Graham Schweig has liberty to write as he likes but who sanctioned his books for sale on ISKCON websites and at ISKCON temples?

 

• "We must always remember that a devotees life is one of
  vairagya-vidya
  , or renunciation and knowledge. Therefore all devotees are warned not to live unnecessarily luxurious lives at the cost of others. Grhasthas living within the jurisdiction of the temple must be especially careful not to imitate karmis by acquiring opulent clothing, food and conveyances. As far as possible, these should be avoided. A member of the temple, whether grhastha, brahmacari or sannyasi, must practice a life of renunciation, following in the footsteps of Haridasa thakura and the six Goswamis."
  
  
  Caitanya-caritamrta Antya 3 .101
  
  
  
  
  
  
  "Any householder who is working full-time (with his wife) as a sankirtana book distributor, or temple managerial duties, artist, cook, etc., shall be provided food, shelter, and other bare minimum necessities by the temple itself. They should not cook their own meals separate from the temple meals. If they have children, then some minimal allowance may be given according to the number of children. If they want anything extra or over and above what the temple president sees as absolute necessity, then they should work outside--the temple cannot pay for anything beyond the bare necessities. And definitely, the BBT cannot pay any salary to anybody. Our philosophy is "simple living and high thinking"--not sense gratification. The temple presidents and leaders (elder students ) must show this by example. Temple or asrama means for renunciation and renounced persons. If one is engaged in self-realization process, then his material necessities become almost nil. Persons who do not like this can work outside."
  
  
  Srila Prabhupada Letter to Kirtiraja das, January 12, 1975
  
  

 

 

[suchandra 1]

 

 

Retraction

BY: LALITA MADHAVA DEVI DASI

 

Apr 3, BATTLEBORO, VERMONT, USA (SUN) —

During the past several days since my article, "

Garuda dasa's New Gita Translation

" (which was written at Garuda Prabhu's request) was published, I have received letters and phone calls emphatically calling for me to retract it in light of disturbing information that has recently surfaced. I was not aware of this information at the time I wrote the article, and thus I now find myself in a most awkward and difficult position.

 

In response to those requests from Vaishnavas, and under mounting pressure in which my own personal integrity is being called into question, I will say the following: I am not a "ritvik" and I consider ritvik-vada to be a philosophical deviation. I wholeheartedly believe in the principle of disciplic succession and therefore I continue to believe that it is appropriate for devotees in the disciplic succession following Srila Prabhupada to write books - provided their character and conduct are beyond reproach.

 

However, I now regret publicly calling Krishna dasa on the carpet in an impassioned personal defense of Garuda Prabhu, and accusing him of being ignorant and ill-informed with regard to matters of Garuda's integrity, character and qualities. Unfortunately, it is I who seem to have been ill-informed.