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Bhakta's charitra

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Respected Indulekhadasiji,

 

That was certainly not the impression.A devotee is a devotee irrespective of a sampradaya.

Whether a person is a devotee or not will be decided by whom???? This is my doubt.Pls help me in this matter.

 

A person can decide by trying to detect if they have the 26 qualities of a devotee that I posted above. However basically only the Supreme Lord or a another bona fide Vaishnava can understand who is a pure devotee.

 

I had said that as long as a person is in an authorized Vaishnava sampradaya, then he is a Vaishnava. What I meant was- he may not identify himself with a sampradaya but as long as he is following the methods and philosophy of a bona fide sampradaya then he is of that sampradaya. For example if I said- I am not attached to any sort of sampradaya. However my belief is that Narayana is the Supreme Lord and there is no form of the Lord higher than Him. Then we can understand that even though I said that I am not from any sampradaya, I follow the teachings of the Sri Sampradaya and therefore I can be called a Sri Vaishnava. Do you understand?

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A person can decide by trying to detect if they have the 26 qualities of a devotee that I posted above. However basically only the Supreme Lord or a another bona fide Vaishnava can understand who is a pure devotee.

 

This list was jotted down by Krishnadasa Kaviraja - it therefore bears authority for Bengali Vaishnavas primarily. I doubt that Guliaditya will find it acceptable if he's a Ramanuja Vaishnava. Neither would a Madhvaite, Nimbarki, Vallabhaite, Radha Vallabhi or Ramanandi assign much importance to it. This is why I keep saying that our dogmas and creeds stand good for us. We shouldn't expect the rest of the world to conform to our belief systems. Even the great Vedic rishis of yore weren't privy to the complete truth. It is GOD only who can judge the purity and sincerity of a sadhaka. No human being, no matter how advanced, can claim to be eligible for that task.

 

As for the authorized sampradaya thing, you'd be surprised to know what Madhva Vaishnavas think of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They totally reject the Chaitanyaite claim to a connection with their line. Take a look at their websites if you feel like it. Once again, it is not for us or any "advanced" Vaishnava to state who is bona fide and who isn't. Let Hari take care of that.

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This list was jotted down by Krishnadasa Kaviraja - it therefore bears authority for Bengali Vaishnavas primarily. I doubt that Guliaditya will find it acceptable if he's a Ramanuja Vaishnava. Neither would a Madhvaite, Nimbarki, Vallabhaite, Radha Vallabhi or Ramanandi assign much importance to it. This is why I keep saying that our dogmas and creeds stand good for us. We shouldn't expect the rest of the world to conform to our belief systems. Even the great Vedic rishis of yore weren't privy to the complete truth. It is GOD only who can judge the purity and sincerity of a sadhaka. No human being, no matter how advanced, can claim to be eligible for that task.

 

As for the authorized sampradaya thing, you'd be surprised to know what Madhva Vaishnavas think of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. They totally reject the Chaitanyaite claim to a connection with their line. Take a look at their websites if you feel like it. Once again, it is not for us or any "advanced" Vaishnava to state who is bona fide and who isn't. Let Hari take care of that.

 

It may have been written by a Gaudiya Vaishnava but the qualities are very general that I am sure all Vaishnavas would agree. It doesn't say as one of the qualities of the devotee- always worshipping Lord Chaitanya. That would be for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. I think the qualities are very general.

 

Aditya prabhuji, do you find that you cannot accept the qualities I posted in th beginning of this thread?

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It may have been written by a Gaudiya Vaishnava but the qualities are very general that I am sure all Vaishnavas would agree. It doesn't say as one of the qualities of the devotee- always worshipping Lord Chaitanya. That would be for Gaudiya Vaishnavas. I think the qualities are very general.

 

Fine, but I reiterate my point that God alone can judge our merits or demerits, because one person's Vaishnava is another one's bogus pasandi. So where do you draw the line?

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Fine, but I reiterate my point that God alone can judge our merits or demerits, because one person's Vaishnava is another one's bogus pasandi. So where do you draw the line?

 

The Lord's pure associates in the spiritual world sometimes come down and take the role of the Lord's representitive, the Guru. Almost always fallen souls like me will not be able to recognize them, but if they decide to come in contact with me- they will see how I am not even a Vaishnava yet, I am simply a sinful struggling soul. They will not just give criticism however, they will help me stand up on my own two feet in spiritual life.

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The Lord's pure associates in the spiritual world sometimes come down and take the role of the Lord's representitive, the Guru. Almost always fallen souls like me will not be able to recognize them, but if they decide to come in contact with me- they will see how I am not even a Vaishnava yet, I am simply a sinful struggling soul. They will not just give criticism however, they will help me stand up on my own two feet in spiritual life.

 

 

Yes, but a truly evolved individual will not blast all and sundry just because of some disagreement on the minutest details, rather such a person will exhibit truly saintly behaviour. God is infinite and unfathomable, and is not the property of Vaishnavism solely, but is present in the heart of every sincere seeker, whether that person is a Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, Christian, Muslim or animist. A thoughtful individual sees wisdom wherever it is available and takes advantage of it.

 

Look up to Krishna as your guide. When speaking the Gita, he encourages Arjuna to fight, but there is no demonizing of the enemy, and the only mentions of Duryodhana are right at the beginning when Dhritarashtra is enquiring from Sanjaya, and again briefly in the chapter where the virat-rupa is being displayed. However, any unwarranted criticism of the man, who was evidently quite dishonourable in many ways, is conspicuous by its absence from the entire discourse. If only certain so-called spiritualists of the modern age could learn from that and refrain from putting down anyone who's not from their own camp, the whole world would be immensely benefited.

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Aditya prabhuji, do you find that you cannot accept the qualities I posted in th beginning of this thread?

 

What is there not to accept it???? Every quality mentioned is correct.I belong to Sri Sampradaya doesnt mean that I will not accept it. My opinion is that to accept or not is a particular "state of mind" only. Srimad Bhagvatam also describes the qualities of vaishnavas which is universal & applicable to all sampradaya.

 

The problem starts when we start finding fault in others which no scripture is recommending.

 

Pranaam.

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Respected Loverofthebhagavata,

 

I started this thread with the intention that I will receive some posts on devotees charitra.Unfortunately I have not recd any such posts.I would request you to pls post any devotees character which u think I will not be aware of.

I am having very much interest in reading devotees character.Reading devotees character is equivalent to worshippring Lord Krishna.

 

Pranaam.

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What is there not to accept it???? Every quality mentioned is correct.I belong to Sri Sampradaya doesnt mean that I will not accept it. My opinion is that to accept or not is a particular "state of mind" only. Srimad Bhagvatam also describes the qualities of vaishnavas which is universal & applicable to all sampradaya.

 

The problem starts when we start finding fault in others which no scripture is recommending.

 

Pranaam.

 

Yes, fault finding is a very bad aparadha. And often one aparadha will lead to another one very soon. Therefore fault finding is to be cut out.

However there is a difference between fault finding and constructive criticism. Do you agree?

 

Pls forgive me for all my offenses at your lotus feet.

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However there is a difference between fault finding and constructive criticism. Do you agree?

 

"Constructive criticism" is a new word for me.I am not in a position to say what is the difference between fault finding & constructive criticism.Pls help me by explaining it with relevent pramaans from scripture which supports constructive criticism.

 

Pranaam

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"Constructive criticism" is a new word for me.I am not in a position to say what is the difference between fault finding & constructive criticism.Pls help me by explaining it with relevent pramaans from scripture which supports constructive criticism.

 

From what I've read so far, it appears that what she means is that calling the staunch Rama-bhakta Tulsidas, whom many consider to be Valmiki-incarnate, a mayavadi, is constructive criticism. Labelling Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, who had the personal darshana of the universal Mother Goddess Jagadamba, a fool and a rascal, is constructive criticism. For your own good, you better give up, my friend Aditya. Anyone who's not a "Vaishnava" according to ISKCONian definitions deserves to be slammed in her books.

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From what I've read so far, it appears that what she means is that calling the staunch Rama-bhakta Tulsidas, whom many consider to be Valmiki-incarnate, a mayavadi, is constructive criticism. Labelling Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, who had the personal darshana of the universal Mother Goddess Jagadamba, a fool and a rascal, is constructive criticism. For your own good, you better give up, my friend Aditya. Anyone who's not a "Vaishnava" according to ISKCONian definitions deserves to be slammed in her books.

 

Loverofthebhagavata, I am shocked. You have totally misinterpreted my meaning and I am feeling quite hurt now.

 

Constructive critisism I put in the sense that if the guru sees the disciple engage in bad habits he tries to bring him up to the proper path by showing how some things are wrong. But he doesn't stop there. He SHOWS us how to CHANGE. He considers that more important than the critisism. He criticizes gently so that the disciple can see the light. We say "om ajnana timirandasya jnanjana salakaya..." Salakaya has two meanings. One of the meanings is- a small instrument to get rid of cataracts. Obviously if the cataracts have to come out it will hurt a little. So when the guru tries to take out those cataracts or anarthas from us it will hurt a little. But this is the guru's duty because eventually it turns out for the best- where we understand the aspects of the Supreme Lord.

 

How could you have ever thought that I would think Sri Tulasidasa was a mayavadi? I am actually crying while I am writing this. I never knew that you could be so mean. That great soul who had darshan of Sri Sri Sita Rama, Lakshman, and Hanuman is no mayavadi. My heart is breaking by reading your words. I am definitely much more insignificant than you but why bash me for something I do not believe? This is unfair!

 

Aditya prabhu pls forgive me for all of my offenses at your lotus feet. Whatever I wrote came from my very limited knowledge, for I myself have no bhakti. But I should not write in a place where I am not welcome. Loverofthebhagavata obviously hates me so I am leaving. May you find your way to the Supreme Lord Narayana.

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Aditya prabhu pls forgive me for all of my offenses at your lotus feet. Whatever I wrote came from my very limited knowledge, for I myself have no bhakti. But I should not write in a place where I am not welcome. Loverofthebhagavata obviously hates me so I am leaving. May you find your way to the Supreme Lord Narayana.

 

Dandvat Pranaam Indulekhadasiji,

 

As per my view Loverofthebhagavata prabhuji just wanted to stop this discussion from going in a wrong direction.He asked me also not to put such type of queries.

Pls dont feel bad.You are most welcome.

Waiting for your kind reply.

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Indulekhaji, please accept my heartfelt apologies if I misunderstood your purport and hurt your feelings. That was never my intention. You and I are two different persons and we therefore do not see eye to eye on some things. I do not hate you and sincerely hope that you shall excuse this mistake of mine.

 

Haribol

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Ok, now that I am feeling more welcome now- would anyone like to post anything about Bhakta's charitra or comment on one of the qualities I posted? (Forget about who wrote them)

 

PS- Guliadityaji and Loverofthebhagavataji I love your display pictures, they are beautiful!

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Respected Indulekhadasiji,

 

Pls post the charitra of Nityananda prabhu.I know only little bit of Nityananda prabhu.

Gaurang mahaprabhu use to treat him as his elder brother.Gaurang Mahaprabhu displayed him chtaurbhuj Narayan form.In Navdweep he was staying with Shri Nivasacharya.

Pls post in detail about Nityanada Prabhu.U can give the link also.

By reading his charitra atleast I will try to derive some bhakti.

 

Dandvat Pranaam

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Respected Indulekhadasiji,

 

Pls post the charitra of Nityananda prabhu.I know only little bit of Nityananda prabhu.

Gaurang mahaprabhu use to treat him as his elder brother.Gaurang Mahaprabhu displayed him chtaurbhuj Narayan form.In Navdweep he was staying with Shri Nivasacharya.

Pls post in detail about Nityanada Prabhu.U can give the link also.

By reading his charitra atleast I will try to derive some bhakti.

 

Dandvat Pranaam

 

Perhaps you have noticed I am a fan of Nityananda Prabhu. By reading your post I am very happy. This also fits in with the title of Bhakta's charitra, because Nityananda is both the Supreme Personality and a devotee. Nityananda Prabhu is extremely merciful and being always intoxicated with prema He does not differentiate who is lower and who is higher. He simply delivers them all. Narottam das Thakura says- heno nitai bine bhai, radha krishna paite nai. Without Lord Nityananda you cannot attain Radha Krishna.

 

Here is a link: http://www.iskcon.net/nityananda/nitaibio1.htm it has many pages about Lord Nityananda.

 

Please also visit my blog: http://nityanandatalk.wordpress.com/ if you would like to post some questions about Lord Nityananda. Even if you have no questions, please post anyway with some Realizations about Lord Nityananda, etc.

 

Jai Nitai!

indulekhadasi

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Your picture of Radharani is also most charming, Induji. I shall try to glean some data on the charitra of bhaktas and post it here.

 

Actually in Mayapur dhama ISKCON temple, they have the asta sakhis around Lord Krishna and Srimati Radharani. Indulekha devi is one of those 8 sakhis. In this picture Indulekha devi is being shown. Hopefully one day by your mercy, I could actually become her servant.

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Respected Indulekhadasiji,

 

I am very much thankful to you for posting Nityananda prabhu's divine charitra.Sri Vyas Dev ji has written "Mahatamaanam charitam shrotavayam nityameva cha".A person should always read the divine charitra of great souls.

I pray to Lord Nityananda to shower his blessings & grant me the divine love of Shri RadhaKrishna.

Thanks once again.

 

Pranaam

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