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Jahnava Nitai Das

From Caru's Newsletter: Ramesvara Dasa at LA Ratha Yatra

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Regarding installing known pedophiles in positions of power, I don't really know anything about that--you're saying Kirtanananda knew particular individuals were pedophiles and placed them in positions of power, or did he place folks in positions of power who were later revealed to be pedophiles?

 

If it's the latter, then what about Bhavananda? Who placed *him* (or Kirtanananda, for that matter) in a position of power? To me, it really doesn't make a difference. Obviously, if crimes are occurring, the crimes and the perpetrators need to be addressed, but I firmly believe anybody can be saved by the Grace of God, regardless of what crimes they might have committed.

 

To be perfectly clear about this: I'm saying that to fault Kirtanananda for placing people of less than perfect character in positions of power, and to *NOT* fault Srila Prabhupada for the same actions is hypocrisy.

 

Personally, I don't want to be judging *anybody* for *anything*. If a predator goes after my kids, I will defend them to my dying breath, but I also hope I will feel compassion and pity for the person who attacked them.

 

Mahaprabhu's comments about being humble and tolerant are universal. They are not to be applied on a case by case basis. Of course, as Param-Gurudev clarifies, we can remain humble and tolerant while at the same time acting to protect the Vaishnavas and the deities.

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Yes, yes, yes!!!

 

 

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys an aspiring devotee's sense of values and his/hers objectivity. It causes him/her to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true. Power at its best is a devotees compassion implementing the demands of justice.

 

Justice at its best is Krishnas punisment and our forgiveness, even for what we see are the most fallen, correcting everything and everyone, who are humble enough to realize they have strayed away fromlove of Krishna and Srila Prabhupada's mission. Is this the real mission of Lord Caitanya, to save even the murders and child molesters.

 

There is a song composed by Narottama Dasa Thakura. He prays to Lord Caitanya "My dear Lord, please be merciful to me, because who can be more merciful than Your Lordship within these three worlds?" Actually, this is a fact. Not only Narottama Dasa Thakura but Rupa Gosvami also prayed to Lord Caitanya in this way. At the time of the first meeting of Lord Caitanya and Rupa Gosvami at Prayaga (Allahabad), Srila Rupa Gosvami said, "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent of all incarnations, because You are distributing love of Krsna, Krsna consciousness." When Krsna was personally present He simply asked us to surrender, but He did not distribute Himself so easily. He made con- ditions--"First of all you surrender." But this incarnation, Lord Caitanya, although Krsna Himself, makes no such condition. He simply distributes: "Take love of Krsna.'' Therefore Lord Caytanya is approved as the most munificent incarnation.

 

Narottama Dasa Thakura says, "Please be merciful to me. You are so magnanimous, because You have seen the fallen souls of this age, and You are very much compassionate to them, but You should know also that I am the most fallen. No one is more greatly fallen than me." Patita-pavana-hetu tava avatara. "Your incarnation is just to reclaim the conditioned, fallen souls, but I assure You that You will not find a greater fallen soul than me. Therefore, my claim is first.''

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You are truly insane if such thoughts come to your mind when you hear about Krishna's beauty. The rest of the sane world doesn't think it refers to homosexuality when an acharya says "Balarama is so beautiful everyone wants to play with him."

 

Whatever you do, avoid *these* "crazies"!!

 

http://www.galva108.org/

 

From their home page:

everyone.jpg

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There is no doubt that there were child molestations and murders committed in New Vrndavana. There certainly were is New Dwaraka. The victims and their parents have attested to it. Read the articles on the hare-krishna.org news blog on that topic.

So who committed them and how did the authorities not know about it? Devotees had to escape with their lives from that community because the surveillance was so tight. This means that the New Vrndavana leaders, Kirtananda, Radanatha didn't know. If you believe that, there's some nice Florida property you might be interested in.

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All sorts of things have happened (and long before ISKCON was ever incorporated), and things will continue to happen.

 

My point is: we can discuss these things, but it is "village talk". These things may have bearing on how to practically run a spiritual society, but they are not "spiritual discussions".

 

Knowing in full detail the lila of Kirtanananda does us no spiritual benefit. For that matter, knowing the full details of Sri Krishna's intimate pastimes is not advised for those in the early stages of spiritual life?

 

I must admit, I'm attracted to such subjects like a fly to stool, but I'm ashamed of the fact, not proud of it.

 

 

There is no doubt that there were child molestations and murders committed in New Vrndavana. There certainly were is New Dwaraka. The victims and their parents have attested to it. Read the articles on the hare-krishna.org news blog on that topic.

So who committed them and how did the authorities not know about it? Devotees had to escape with their lives from that community because the surveillance was so tight. This means that the New Vrndavana leaders, Kirtananda, Radanatha didn't know. If you believe that, there's some nice Florida property you might be interested in.

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I don't think I'm saying anything that isn't fairly well known, isn't that how Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada was able to open the Tokyo temple? Are you saying that donations should not be accepted if the money was made illegally? Where do you get that from?

There is a difference between Kirtanananda instructing people to produce, smuggle and sell drugs - and Srila Prabhupada receiving a donation from someone who sold drugs. Srila Prabhupada never instructed anyone to engage in illegal activities. Every time such activities were brought to his attention he said that they must be stopped.

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I imagine a devotee like Amara Das (of GALVA fame) might have some comment on such a topic.

He has already provided plenty of his comments on these forums, and at the time I said he was insane as well. Anyone who says homosex is not sinful, and that homosexuals are more detached than heterosexuals - and still claims to follow Srila Prabhupada - is insane. That more or less covers the entire Galva following. Many of their formerly staunch debaters are no longer even devotees, and have written asking their names be removed from these forums, with the threat of legal consequences if we didnt comply.

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The destination of life is to reestablish our lost relationship with the Supreme Lord. That is our destination. Unfortunately, people do not know what is the destination. They are simply thinking, destination of life, to have the greatest amounts of sense gratification. This is illusion. Because we are materially absorbed and materially concept of life means these senses—we have no other information—so we are trying to squeeze out all kinds of pleasure from the senses. This is called illusion. They have no other information. They are earning, working very hard, and the ultimate goal is sense gratification. This is illusion.

The ultimate goal is Krishna.

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All sorts of things have happened (and long before ISKCON was ever incorporated), and things will continue to happen.

 

My point is: we can discuss these things, but it is "village talk". These things may have bearing on how to practically run a spiritual society, but they are not "spiritual discussions".

 

Knowing in full detail the lila of Kirtanananda does us no spiritual benefit. For that matter, knowing the full details of Sri Krishna's intimate pastimes is not advised for those in the early stages of spiritual life?

 

I must admit, I'm attracted to such subjects like a fly to stool, but I'm ashamed of the fact, not proud of it.

I'm hardly attracted to ISKCON corruption or I'd get initiated by some of the more questionable gurus (who will remain nameless) like so many thousands have. Which is worse, exposing corruption to prevent it from reoccuring or covering up under the rubric of aparadha and letting it fester?

Silence is consent.

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Highlights from the old Galva debate on these forums:

 

http://www.indiadivine.org/galva-reply.htm

 

Interesting, and I certainly agree with many fundamental points there. It *does* seem like Amara Prabhu is straining a bit to justify a particular lifestyle via scripture. I feel any such endeavor is wasted effort.

 

However, you appear to be proceeding under a glaring misunderstanding.

 

I've never heard of a person being born without *any* sexual organs. How would they urinate? A rare condition is called hermaphroditism whereby a person is born with *both* male and female sex organs (in varying stages of functioning and completeness).

 

A eunuch is almost universally considered to be a person who was born a man and was castrated at some point. The castration usually involves removal of the testes and not the penis. Sexual function and desire may be unaffected.

 

In fact, in the harems of the sheiks in the Middle East, the eunuchs were known to please the harem girls without fear of pregnancy.

 

Just thought I'd point that out.

 

Of course, this is all besides the point. I didn't mean to change topics to homosexuality. My point is that the Lord can do whatever he pleases. No doubt, sporting with the damsels of Vraja is a sin for anybody but Sri Krishna. Sri Krishna can do what He likes. Period.

 

Nobody can say (except Gurudev and the other realized souls) who is an avadhut and who is not an avadhut. We may all highly doubt it (I very much doubt it), but Kirtanananda just *might* be an avadhut.

 

I will continue to refrain from judging.

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I'm hardly attracted to ISKCON corruption or I'd get initiated by some of the more questionable gurus (who will remain nameless) like so many thousands have. Which is worse, exposing corruption to prevent it from reoccuring or covering up under the rubric of aparadha and letting it fester?

Silence is consent.

 

Changing ISKCON will not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but will come through continuous struggle as aspiring devotees attempt to continually struggle to become purified from the darkness of Kali-yuga. So we must straighten our backs and work for our own pure selfless Krishna Consciousness. Only when we ae pure can we help others. An evil man or dictatorial ‘devotee’ can't ride you unless your back is bent.

 

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

 

A devotee who passively and naivly accepts evil is as much involved in it as a devotee who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. Ignorance and ‘we didn’t know’ or 'we were just following' is no excuse

 

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition within ISKCON was not the strident clamor of the bad and dictatorial devotees, but the appalling silence and naivity of the good simplistic 'humble' devotees.

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Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

So true!

 

 

A devotee who passively and naivly accepts evil is as much involved in it as a devotee who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. Ignorance and ‘we didn’t know’ or 'we were just following' is no excuse

Yes, we must uphold Dharma!! The question is: how do we do that?

 

Is whining about the faults of others on internet forums a good way to uphold Dharma?

 

Is first addressing the issue with the person involved upholding Dharma? If the person we address refuses to acknowledge the issue, then, is bringing up the issue to a senior Vaishnava upholding Dharma?

 

Yes, it has been said that ISKCON leadership often minimized or ignored cases of abuse or misuse of power. Perhaps, in those frustrating circumstances, a devotee of good conscience may find that they *must* air the grievance in public. How can I fault them for that?

 

Yet, don't we owe it to our Godsiblings to treat them with some respect and consideration when addressing what we perceive as their faults?

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Then there is the concept of a public figure. A public figure has his life examined and talked about freely because of the status he has in society, like a politician. Those that put themselves forward as leaders of men are open to extra scrutiny by the public because everyone has a stake in the bone fides of their leadership qualities.

 

How much more someone who puts themselves forward as a representative of Krsna, accepts worship money and claims the right to unquestioned obedieance from his followers. I say get out the magnifying glass and scrutinize him till your eyes hurt. If they can't stand the heat then they need to get off the throne.

 

And as far as these rebound characters go, we know they all have strong personality traits that will again catapult them to the top of the heap. Not to mention the mystic they hold in some young and foolish minds. Look at Bhavananda for example.

 

To obsess on this stuff is unhealthy.

 

To warn others is duty. After delivering the warning to someone if they still want to gruvel before such characters then that is their choice and problem.

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Good points all! I'll take off my devil's advocate hat and second the below as a very sensible viewpoint.

 

 

Then there is the concept of a public figure. A public figure has his life examined and talked about freely because of the status he has in society, like a politician. Those that put themselves forward as leaders of men are open to extra scrutiny by the public because everyone has a stake in the bone fides of their leadership qualities.

 

How much more someone who puts themselves forward as a representative of Krsna, accepts worship money and claims the right to unquestioned obedieance from his followers. I say get out the magnifying glass and scrutinize him till your eyes hurt. If they can't stand the heat then they need to get off the throne.

 

And as far as these rebound characters go, we know they all have strong personality traits that will again catapult them to the top of the heap. Not to mention the mystic they hold in some young and foolish minds. Look at Bhavananda for example.

 

To obsess on this stuff is unhealthy.

 

To warn others is duty. After delivering the warning to someone if they still want to gruvel before such characters then that is their choice and problem.

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It is said that the kanistha and the uttama devotee are characterized by their lack of discrimination. For the kanistha and others around him/her that is a problem whereas for the uttama and those around him/her it is a blessing.

 

Certainly most would agree that Srila Prabhupada is an uttama bhakta and everyone must agree that he personally initiated and accepted all of his disciples. He encouraged them in every way and often overlooked their faults. Did Srila Prabhupada accept Ramesvara? Bhavananda? Kirtanananda? The others whose character and actions have been less than acceptable and are being brought to task in this thread?

 

If we want to progress (which is the hallmark of the madhyama devotee) then we must discriminate. We must see things and people for who they are and we must strive to associate ourselves with devotees whose only interest is suddha bhakti. At the same time we must also honor devotion and see the good in others. Srila Prabhupada has many disciples and they all have a variety of qualities. He is always seeing good in them and encouraging them in service.

 

What is my point? Whatever they have done and whatever they may do, these are sadhakas who Srila Prabhupada has personally extended himself to and is personally responsible for in terms of helping them advance. We all should be careful how we think and speak about them. We may distance ourselves from some, and rightly so for our own good, and we should certainly always point out proper vaishnava behavior from behavior which is unbecoming - but we should stir clear of personal judgement.

 

Sridhara Maharaja said that those who are in the mercy line should not call out for judgement. I heard one christian say 'judge not unless you be judged'. What did Christ say? Something about you who have not sinned throwing the first stone?

 

Any movement a jiva makes toward Krsna and his service should be met with great celebration. I am personally happy to see anyone come forward for sevice.

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Changing ISKCON will not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but will come through continuous struggle as aspiring devotees attempt to continually struggle to become purified from the darkness of Kali-yuga. So we must straighten our backs and work for our own pure selfless Krishna Consciousness. Only when we ae pure can we help others. An evil man or dictatorial ‘devotee’ can't ride you unless your back is bent.

 

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

 

A devotee who passively and naivly accepts evil is as much involved in it as a devotee who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. Ignorance and ‘we didn’t know’ or 'we were just following' is no excuse

 

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition within ISKCON was not the strident clamor of the bad and dictatorial devotees, but the appalling silence and naivity of the good simplistic 'humble' devotees.

Let me quote myself from a previous post on this thread:

 

"I don't busy myself with devotees faults or stumblings until they start to affect the lives of others and Rameswara misled literally hundreds of devotees, most of which have left KC.

 

My biggest concern is how quickly devotees with some past credentials are glamorized and idealized beyond reason and reality. 'Now don't be a fault-finder' is the old saw that keeps the spin factory of guru-glitter going. I don't dare say anthing. Never breathed how I found him ridiculous, a saffron show queen being worshipped. Ah but the Emperor said I in my childish candor is...

 

That's how the guru phenomenon manages to keep going. They run the celeb circuit and are lionized like stars. And then one day, they fall down and these groupies are all angry and disillusioned. I was at New Dwarka when Rameswara was the acting acarya. I was never impressed, never taken up by the hype. So when he fell down, I wasn't too surprised. I had just seen him strutting around town in his sanyassi robes and trindunda going to clothing stores and strip malls. I chuckled then as I chuckle now when I hear of his sheepish return."

 

Seeing things as they are is not tantamount to hatred - that's a sappy cliche. In fact that vision is essential on the spiritual path - because it's not just sentimentality.

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Let me quote myself from a previous post on this thread:

 

"I don't busy myself with devotees faults or stumblings until they start to affect the lives of others and Rameswara misled literally hundreds of devotees, most of which have left KC.

 

My biggest concern is how quickly devotees with some past credentials are glamorized and idealized beyond reason and reality. 'Now don't be a fault-finder' is the old saw that keeps the spin factory of guru-glitter going. I don't dare say anthing. Never breathed how I found him ridiculous, a saffron show queen being worshipped. Ah but the Emperor said I in my childish candor is...

 

That's how the guru phenomenon manages to keep going. They run the celeb circuit and are lionized like stars. And then one day, they fall down and these groupies are all angry and disillusioned. I was at New Dwarka when Rameswara was the acting acarya. I was never impressed, never taken up by the hype. So when he fell down, I wasn't too surprised. I had just seen him strutting around town in his sanyassi robes and trindunda going to clothing stores and strip malls. I chuckled then as I chuckle now when I hear of his sheepish return."

 

Seeing things as they are is not tantamount to hatred - that's a sappy cliche. In fact that vision is essential on the spiritual path - because it's not just sentimentality.

 

 

Well said prabhu, I was also in the neighborhood of New Dwarka at that time. As for his return? Just take note of who swoons and now praises, then avoid that person. Not all that came to Srila Prabhupada were devotees of good intent. Some were/are very duplicious and 'ill' motivated. And their cheerleaders are just as dangerous. Didn't Srila Prabhupada mention a 'sinister movement' implying within ISKCON?

 

Hare Krsna,

 

CB

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However, you appear to be proceeding under a glaring misunderstanding.

 

I've never heard of a person being born without *any* sexual organs.

Being born without sexual organs refers to having an incomplete sexual reproductive system:

 

From wikipedia on intersex:

 

"If sameness is defined by gonads, again, intersex people present the first problem. Some people are born either without any gonads, with non-functioning gonads, or with a mismatching set, i.e. one testicle and one ovary."

 

Of course there are all sorts of variations to this, and I don't want to get into the details of it right now in the Rameswara thread. He deserves better than that.

 

The summary of it is that the "napumsaka" (as cited in Gita by Krishna) refers to someone born with a genetic defect that results in the development of incomplete reproductive organs. Modern scholars have put this occurence at around 0.018% of the population (one person out of 5500 people). The word literally means not male, (na - not; pumsaka - man). This has no connection at all with todays concept of homosexual (the Galva group), which is a matter of choice.

 

 

A eunuch is almost universally considered to be a person who was born a man and was castrated at some point. The castration usually involves removal of the testes and not the penis. Sexual function and desire may be unaffected.

The word eunuch almost universally means that, except when it is used as a translation for sanskrit words such as napumsaka (or the hindi hijra). For lack of a precise medical term, many translators and dictionaries have taken the easy approach and define napumsaka as a "eunuch". And thus in India the word eunuch has come to be synonymous with the hijra and napumsaka - but with no connection to castration.

 

It is for this reason that Srila Prabhupada says:

 

Srila Prabhupada: Eunuchs? What is the eunuch?

Devotee: Eunuch. A eunuch is a…

Srila Prabhupada: Tell me that.

Devotee: Impotent… someone who's been castrated.

Srila Prabhupada: Oh. That is called a eunuch.

Devotee: Eunuch.

Srila Prabhupada: Rather, by nature, neither man nor woman.

 

The napumsaka is by nature neither man nor woman, but most sanskrit dictionaries will include eunuch as the definition.

 

Now back to Rameswara...

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I joined the movement in L.A. in early 1975.

At that time Tulasi das was TP and Jayatirtha was GBC.

Ramesvar was VP or something. I am not sure what his official position was but he was working mainly with the BBT in publishing books etc.

 

Anyway, in the year I spend in L.A., Ramesvara never once introduced himself to me or showed any interest in me as a new devotee trying to make advancement in KC.

Many devotees introduced themselves to me and extended themselves to me if I had any questions or if they could help me along in some way.

I met many nice devotees and felt a nice fraternity and brotherhood with many of the devotees there.

 

But, Ramesvar was always aloof, elitist and somewhat unapproachable.

I personally never felt any fraternity or brotherhood with him.

 

Frankly, I thought he was full of himself.

I had just come out of the US Navy and I was well familiar with institutional living and relating with people in an institutional environment.

 

Ramesvar just seemed like he had himself on a pedestal.

So many other devotees where humble, kind and generous.

 

So, personally, I never really liked Ramesvar but I thought he was a fixed-up devotee. He had this nerdy kind of arrogance and elitism about him.

 

I never connected to him AT ALL in the year I spent in L.A.

 

I did connect with Tulasi das, Jayatirtha and many, many devotees there.

I think there were like 75 brahmacaries in the brahmacary ashram at that time and I connected to many of them.

 

Ramesvar?

Personally, I always had a weird vibe about him.

He was one of the most aloof and elitist devotees I ever saw in ISKCON.

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Personally, I like the article posted by audarya lila das best. And theist has a grasp as well.

 

You know, if I really want to see one who is displeassing to Prabhupada, one who has fallen down, one who has made innumerable blunders, I go look at the mirror. (Maybe it is reaction to former addiction to the theme of Tommy the Rock Opera, the only good advice from Meher Baba)

 

As yall know, I have said my share of bad things about these zonals from the ozone of their own imagination. Some have even been kindly removed by the classy moderator of this forum because of their utter meanness. But, the fact remins, there relationship with Srila Prabhupada is not to be interfered with, otherwise, I am the biggest hypocrite.

 

A recent article showed Sri Narayana Swami embracing, Kirtananda. Sri Paramadwaita Swami also embraced him. Accusations and bad vibes flowed. Why, because these great devotees didnt slap him? No, great devotees probably dont even see the bad faults at all, only see the attempt of Krsna consciousness, even though imperfectly applied. As Audarya lila states, an uttama adhikari has no discrimination at all. Sometimes, an uttama adhikari has to accept a position of madhyama adhikari in order to preach and especially, to accept disciples. An Uttama Adhikari cannot do this because there is no difference between Mother Theresa and Twisted Sister to the uttama. All that is seen is a pure spirit soul. Madhyama adhikari makes distinction between one engaged in devotional service to Krsna and one who has forgotten everything due to contact with this portion of the mahat tattwa.

 

So, I slam Jayatirtha in a very mean-spirited way, but Srila Prabhupada calls him "My tirtha". Ramaswara wasnt always walking on the air of false praise largely due to silly sycopants, he was once a kinda nice guy behind the counter of the book store on Watseka. What happened to him? It is his story, one he has to deal with. He directly adversely affected many, but these folks are not completely free of their own implications in his so-called crimes. Every phony guru has their advertizing campaign and their toady disciples pushing the aisles clear so their man can get to his chair. I Mean really, did any of you feel the urgent need to make way? I didnt, the twerp can go around, he aint no cripple. (Sorry).

 

Anyway, these folks are who they are, their baggage is theirs. Victims of these folks, Im sorry. But Im not responsible, I dont feel at all guilty because some were treated brutally at the hands of someone falsely identified as a devotee of Krsna. Let him go to rathayatra, just dont let him sit in the chair.

 

Haribol, mahaksadasa

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Many devotees introduced themselves to me and extended themselves to me if I had any questions or if they could help me along in some way.

 

 

This makes him for me even more sympathetic.:)

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This makes him for me even more sympathetic.:)

He appeared to have been a nerdy type school boy who lived in his own little world unable to relate with his classmates.

 

His feigned ecstatic mood just looked to me like a pathetic attempt to garner status as a very advanced devotee tasting prema.

 

He just looked so pretentious and hungry for respect and position.

 

It is noteworthy I guess that he has shown interest in the Utah temple.

 

Is there any ISKCON GBC guru presiding in Utah?

Or, is Caru somewhat of a closet ritvik?

 

Who gives diksha in Utah?

 

I don't know much about that temple other than it looks very nice.

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Without some authority, a temple cannot look nice. When I see nice facilities used in Krsnas service, I conclude nice devotees are serving Him. Like when I went to a dilapidated Vancouver BC temple in 1990, no one was there, overgrown, the giant Lord Chaitanya sitting in a field, uncared for. However, a small greenhouse was ther, I looked in, and saw Srimati Tulasi devi thriving nice3ly, and this was in February.

 

This cannot be done by ordinary people. There was a devotee in Burnaby that day, the symptom was the health of Srimati Tulasi devi. Same goes for utah, if there is nice facility, then Srila Prabhupada is pleased, which cannot be done by non-devotees.

 

hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

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You make him sound like a scared kid. That wasn't my perception of him, though I was a young boy.

 

It's amazing what kinds of fronts we may present as a coping mechanism when we are frightened. Think about the burden placed on Rameshwar Prabhu at such a young age! Despite any public display on his part, how could he, as a person of good conscience, not realize the magnitude of the

responsibilities with which he had been entrusted?

 

In my own life, I've often felt "different". It can lead to fearing the judgement of others and a general mistrust of the environment.

 

However, if I really have some faith that the Lord resides within the heart of every living entity, then how can I look upon them except with an eye for their good qualities? If I really believe everything is happening by the will of the Lord, how can I not see that their dealings with me--their compassion and good-will as well as their harshness or avoidance--is but a result of my own karma or else the special mercy of the Lord?

 

How easily is my perception clouded by envy?

 

 

He appeared to have been a nerdy type school boy who lived in his own little world unable to relate with his classmates.

 

His feigned ecstatic mood just looked to me like a pathetic attempt to garner status as a very advanced devotee tasting prema.

 

He just looked so pretentious and hungry for respect and position.

 

It is noteworthy I guess that he has shown interest in the Utah temple.

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