His Natural Spiritual Master

[Devarsirat 0]

 

For myself, I have been on this forum 4 years and I have had my belly full of arguing and debating with the followers of Narayana Maharaja. I don't think anyone has been converted to the other side in all these arguments and debates that have gone on. It's an excercise in futility.

Personally, I think Srila Prabhupada wanted to dismantle ISKCON after his passing and I think he saw Narayana Maharaja as the man for the job.If it weren't for the childish and fanatic mentality of his followers to force Narayana Maharaja on ISKCON and the Krishna consciousness movement, I think Narayana Maharaja would have enjoyed immense success beyond his already noteworthy preaching accomplishments.If the followers of Narayana Maharaja had been humble and gentle and just taking a back seat with their own guru and been happy with that, then I think lot more devotees would have been drawn to him.

I think that fanatic followers of Narayana Maharaja who came on forums years ago and have tried to cram him down the throats of everyone have done the greatest disservice to him.

If they would have just been happy to have a seperate society from ISKCON and not tired to impose Narayana Maharaja on ISKCON, then I think that would have worked a lot better than all this feverish fanaticism to try and promote that if ISKCON or the followers of Srila Prabhupada did not accept Narayana Maharaja as the universal siksha guru and mandatory sadhu sanga they were all big offenders.Narayana Maharaja enjoyed a respectable position with ISKCON devotees until his follwers came out like little brats trying to cram him down the throat of ISKCON.So, you guys have pissed your own bed and now you have to lay in it.

I went to the camp of Sridhar Maharaja in about 1981 and I was a close associate of Bhakti Sudhir Maharaja, but I don't ever remember the kind of fanatic, holier-than-thou fanaticism from that camp that I have seen from the camp of Narayana Maharaja.

Actually, I mostly admired Narayana Maharaja before his followers turned me off.

But, I am not so sure that Narayana Maharaja didn't have something to do with the fanatic extremism that most all his followers have been spreading around the world since ISKCON devotees starting turning to him for guidance.

It appears that he has had something to do with the phenomenon.

 

 

Fair comment, but as followers of Srila Prabhupada we also have done the same, and its certainly not a good way to preach, I agree with that 100%

 

In all camps we have neophite followers like me and advanced followers, we just have to choose the right association. Anyway, I dont agree with the idea that Srila Prabhupada wanted to dismantle Iskcon, why all this hard work to establish it and then do that?

 

I am sure He was quiet upset about the going ons but i am also sure that those who where supposed to help His disciples to complete the training have been Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Narayana Maharaja.

 

After all didnt Srila Prabhupada say..the training is not complete? then who was supposed to complete it if not those to great souls? No one else was qualified to do this job except them.

 

Unfortunately Srila Sridhar Maharaja passed away before I could go and see Him.

 

You wrote this....

Narayana Maharaja enjoyed a respectable position with ISKCON devotees until his follwers came out like little brats trying to cram him down the throat of ISKCON.

 

I think the truth is more like this Guruvani prabhu. The Iskcon leaders became afraid that their positions would become jepodised and exposed by Srila Narayana Maharaja, " and that even without saying anything" All the new devotees would have realised the difference between the maha bagavad devotee and the kanistha adhikari and come to the right conclusions.

 

For the same reason they did not like Srila Sridhar Maharaja either and gave Him a bad name also, same old Iskcon politics.

 

The kings new cloth would have been exposed as no cloth, invisible, and this of course would have been an incredible benefit for the society, but here we are, what can we do?

 

If some disciples of Srila Narayana maharaja or indeed Prabhupada disciples have have acted like you described, then what is the harm? they have done so in good faith, not everyone is pissed of by this, in fact when we disciples of Srila Prabhupada pushed His books into peoples hands, it was seen as liberating them and helping them in a very big way, this is true and a fact, but many felt it was uncalled for and felt harrassed by us

 

the disciples of Narayana Maharaja also feel the same, they feel that they can help others. Same sentiments

 

I think we should all agree to consider the amazing preaching potential we all would have if we worked together in unison and try to find ways to work together.

 

For excample if there was a temple of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and another of Narayana maharajas devotees and a new prospect lives one mile away from your temple, but a 100 from ours I would send him to yours, because in the end is this not what we should do? why lead the pure guy 100 miles away if he can get the same mercy closer by?

 

Srila Prabhupada says that there are many vaisnava institutions and if they are genuine we should associate with any of them and make advancement

quickly in this way.

 

I think we should preach this message, which is totally in accordance with Srila Prabhupadas peace formular. Times are getting worse and soon we will find ourselfes in more difficult positions , we will need each other to survive

then all this petty stuff will seem rediculous.

 

Haribol

[muralidhar_das 0]

Dear Devotees,

 

Take a close look at Brhadbhagvatamrtam because that book explains how to reconcile all these issues of "different groups".

 

The seeker of truth, Gopakumara, goes from place to place and what he finds is that in different sanghas the local devotees have different ideals. Associates of Narayan in Vaikuntha criticize Gopakumara for singing Krishna's names and tell him to worship Narayana. In siddha-loka the devotees of Visnu say, "don't go searching for Krishna outside yourself, he is in your heart". And in Jagannatha Puri the devotees also say and do things that Gopakumara is not happy about. When you become dissatisfied then that is a good thing - you move on.

 

The fact is, each person walks his own path and a real Guru will open your eyes to the fact that what we believe today is going to be replaced by new realizations we will have tomorrow.

 

Syamananda Thakura was initiated by Hridaya Chaitanya Prabhu, but his feelings of devotion were different from his Guru's feelings of sakhya-rasa and he left the mode of bhajan taught to him by his diksa guru and transformed into a servant of other devotees serving in the transcendental play of madhurya-rasa.

 

Everyone needs good association to help us go forward. I have full faith in Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj because Srila Sridhar Maharaj personally told me to serve him, "the suddha bhakta". But if you never got told that then what does this instruction mean for you? Nothing, probably. Faith is the only way to approach the Lord, and what Faith has revealed to me is different from what the Goddess of Faith reveals to other persons.

 

 

Devotee: In the 23rd verse ot the third chapter of the Prappanna-jivanamrta in one verse it is described in the commentary by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura that it says here, "Abandoning all of these processes, I glorify the qualities of the personality of Faith by whose mercy devotion can be attained." Can you please explain.

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: What is the Bengali?

 

Devotee: gurau gosthe gosthalayisu sujane bhu-suragane ... sakala chadiya bhai, sraddha-devira guna gai

 

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: That statement is by Raghunatha Dasa Goswami. Faith is producing all these things. What is that faith? First we must have faith and by the grace of faith we may have so many things. So by the very foundation he is trying to concentrate all his attention and devotion towards the foundation. Just as Ramananda Raya told when again that yugala murti will come to reveal in my heart I shall try to worship without minding what the time is producing, without minding that, I shall give my attention to the time only which can produce that. In this way the basis. The creeper of devotion has grown and has reached the feet of Krsna, so far progress. But the gardener, he will be more attentive to pour water into the root of the creeper, the foundation. Then automatically they will be enlivened and I shall get the result, but not direct. If I glve attention to the upper side more, it will disappear. Always towards dasya, service, towards the foundation. And indirectly everything will come to me. Wherever I shall try to derive some consequence directly from the effect, it will disappear. But where I shall to engage myself only in the service of the lowest service and that will grow more and more. Get yourself lower. To take the Name - automatically other things will come. But if you neglect the foundation, everything will disappear. That is the idea. Always your attention should be drawn towards the lower form of service. Radharani says, "He wants to enjoy me but my attention is always to serve Him, not to be a partner of His enjoyment". That should be the attention always, dasya. Pour water into the root. That is the nature of suddha bhakti. Sraddha Devi, it is all her product. If she is withdrawn, everything is gone, finished. So I shall try my best to keep up my gratefulness, thankfulness to the very foundation by whose grace I may hope to have so many things. It is not mine. It belongs to Sraddha Devi. Svarupa sakti-- I am a tastha sakti. All the wealth belongs to her. Yoga maya, svarupa sakti - Sraddha devi. By her grace I think that I have got so many things but this all belongs to her. I should not be ungrateful to her. I may be fully awake. Only through her grace! This is all the extended grace that I get - not a matter of right! I must be conscious of the fact. It is the wealth of my gurudeva, sraddha. I should be wakeful to this truth. And it concludes to parakiya again. It is very clear there, it [the realization in my heart] does not belong to me. Everytime I may lose, very rare. Only the chance is producing. I am not fit. I have no right. So rare. And so with that attention we shall try to connect. Fully awake to the fact. (7-8-82)

 

[Shakti-Fan 0]

 

Dear Devotees,

 

Everyone needs good association to help us go forward. I have full faith in Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj because Srila Sridhar Maharaj personally told me to serve him, "the suddha bhakta". But if you never got told that then what does this instruction mean for you? Nothing, probably. Faith is the only way to approach the Lord, and what Faith has revealed to me is different from what the Goddess of Faith reveals to other persons.

Boy, have you come a long way. And I don't mean that as anything negative but rather a compliment. Maybe there is hope for me after all.

[Guruvani 0]

maybe the evil of the internet is that it encourages us to mingle with people of different perspectives that in normal circumstances we would never associate with?

 

I think like-minded people should hang together and avoid conflicts with other camps that we have our differences with.

 

the internet offers the facility to take shots at people that we would otherwise just avoid.

 

My problem is that I really feel like I don't belong in any sect or camp anymore.

I am just a loner who is for the most part a loner by choice and by design.

 

I don't really see that I fit in with any group now, probably because I am not prepared for peer pressure and judgemental attitudes that I always found around temples and camps of devotees.

 

Until then, I just bang it out here and speak my mind even though my opinion is not very palatable for practically anyone.

 

I do speak it the way I see, though I know I am a little harsh.

 

My life is a little harsh, so I guess I figure if I can take it I can dish it out.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by muralidhar_das

Dear Devotees,

Everyone needs good association to help us go forward. I have full faith in Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj because Srila Sridhar Maharaj personally told me to serve him, "the suddha bhakta". But if you never got told that then what does this instruction mean for you? Nothing, probably. Faith is the only way to approach the Lord, and what Faith has revealed to me is different from what the Goddess of Faith reveals to other persons.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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Boy, have you come a long way. And I don't mean that as anything negative but rather a compliment. Maybe there is hope for me after all.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I've always felt this way.

 

I found what I was searching for at Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math but that Math is not for everyone. Other people find their fulfilment in other places such as Radha-kunda, Tirupati, Varanasi, Puri etc.

 

I've been to Jagannatha's ratha yatra festival twice with Srila Govinda Maharaj and then I found that he didn't attend the ratha rope-pulling festival. Only, when Jagannatha arrived at the Gundica, the gates of Vrindaban, which is the place where the Brajabashis came to meet with Lord Krishna, only there did Srila Govinda Maharaj come to have darshan of Jagannatha. Some people enjoy seeing God riding on a big chariot but my Guru Maharaj has a different feeling when he sees a chariot. Srila Govinda Maharaj, in his own way, then decides to go to the place where Guru Maharaj is doing service, but other people who took initiation from Srila Sridhar Maharaj may go to other destinations. It is all because of freedom and degrees of faith.

[krsna 3]

It is all because of freedom and degrees of faith.

 

Bhakti is freely given by Krsna and Guru.

 

The degree of faith reqired to accept pure bhakti from the pure devotee Guru comes from where? I can't seem to muster up enough faith in Guru in order to be free to accept pure bhakti. Maybe you can help me out on this one?

[Guruvani 0]

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I've always felt this way.

 

I found what I was searching for at Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math but that Math is not for everyone. Other people find their fulfilment in other places such as Radha-kunda, Tirupati, Varanasi, Puri etc.

 

I've been to Jagannatha's ratha yatra festival twice with Srila Govinda Maharaj and then I found that he didn't attend the ratha rope-pulling festival. Only, when Jagannatha arrived at the Gundica, the gates of Vrindaban, which is the place where the Brajabashis came to meet with Lord Krishna, only there did Srila Govinda Maharaj come to have darshan of Jagannatha. Some people enjoy seeing God riding on a big chariot but my Guru Maharaj has a different feeling when he sees a chariot. Srila Govinda Maharaj, in his own way, then decides to go to the place where Guru Maharaj is doing service, but other people who took initiation from Srila Sridhar Maharaj may go to other destinations. It is all because of freedom and degrees of faith.

I was recently listening to a recent lecture of Govinda Maharaja on the SCSM website and he was explaining something about his work on the Gita translation.

He explained that there are basically two schools of commentary on the Gita.

One line follows Baladeva Vidyabhusana and the other line follows Vishvanatha Chakravarti Thakur.

Srila Prabhupada dedicated his Gita translation to Baladeva Vidyabhusana and his Govinda-bhasya.

I think Govinda Maharaja was describing how the version of Sridhar Maharaja is following more in the line of Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakur and his rasik version.

 

I think this basic distinction is what distinguishes the mood of Srila Prabhupada from the mood of many of his Godbrothers.

 

I think the basic premise of Srila Prabhupada's preaching and translation was mostly akin to the Baladeva Vidyabhusana flavor and not so much pushing forward the Vishvanatha Chakravarti version.

 

Narayana Maharaja definitely appears to be an extreme case of following the Vishvanatha Chakravarti mood with practically no traces of the Baladeva Vidyabhusana approach.

 

I appreciate both moods and both styles of commentary, but I think that the Baladeva Vidyabhusana presentation on Vedanta philosophy is the best format for preaching Krishna consciousness all over the world as Srila Prabhupada did.

 

Then within the inner chambers of the movement there is more a tendency towards the Vishvanatha Chakravarti mood.

 

But, I am firm believer that this Baladeva Vidyabhusana style of presentation is the most proper form of presentation for the masses in a missionary effort.

 

Then, for the insiders of the Krishna consciousness movement, the Vishvanatha Chakravarti conception is very appreciated.

 

I think preaching to the masses should be on the basis of a Baladeva Vidyabhusana style.

It appears Srila Prabhupada had that idea and so he dedicated his Bhagavad-gita to Baladeva Vidyabhusana and his Govinda-bhasya commentary on Vedanta philosophy.

 

I think the tenor of his whole preaching mission was for the most part in the vein of a Baladeva Vidyabhusana quality.

 

Internally, Srila Prabhupada was surely well familiar with the Vishvanatha Chakravarti version, but for his preaching mission he felt it proper to follow along the lines of Baladeva Vidybhusana style.

 

The BhaktiVedanta title actually indicates Vedanta presented on the platform of Bhakti as opposed to karma or jnana.

[Guest guest]

Srila BV Trivikrama Maharaja:

 

The jivas’ disposition is influenced by his association. Through asatsanga he becomes attached to unreal objects and through sat-sanga alone he develops an inclination for the Real Entity. If from his birth a lion cub lives with a shepherd and his sheep, he learns to eat grass and ‘baa’ like a sheep. Similarly, The result of associating with a thief is that one becomes a thief, and, similarly, by associating with a sadhu one can become a sadhu. If a person lives with the misconception that the body is the soul, then, because of living in the association or shelter of non-reality, he deviates from the path of truth. Bewildered by maya, the jiva forgets that he is an eternal entity and puts his faith in the perishable body as his svarupa. He cannot break the spell of this illusion on his own. As an accumulated result of serving Hari, Guru and Vaisnavas over many births, knowingly and unknowingly, he attains sadhu-sanga. And, it is only by sadhu sanga that he develops mamatva buddhi for the Transcendental Reality.

 

satam prasangan mama virya-samvido

bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah

taj-josanad asv apavarga-vartmani

sraddha ratir bhaktir anukramisyati

 

“In the association of pure devotees, discussion of the pastimes and activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead isvery pleasing and satisfying to the ear and the heart. By cultivating such knowledge,one gradually becomes advanced on the path of liberation. Thereafter he isfreed, and his attraction becomes fixed. At that time, real devotion and devotional service begin.” (SB 3. 25.25)

 

By living in sat-sanga, one develops faith (sraddha), and he gradually attains the stage of prema-bhakti. Baddha jivas (conditioned souls) inclined towards asat-sanga and endeavoring for bodily pleasure, remain uninterested in sadhu-sanga. Only those who have accumulated sukrti become attracted to sadhus. For example, in a religious assembly, everyone hears the message of the sadhu. Even after hearing, however, those who are devoid of sukrti continue to remain absorbed in their wife, children, etc. No change is seen in them. Only one or two persons, those who have accumulated sukrti, develop an eagerness to become closer to the sadhu and hear more hari-katha—the katha of atma-dharma. Therefore, sukrti alone is the basis of sadhu-sanga.

 

How can one accumulate this sukrti? Knowingly or unknowingly, willingly or unwillingly, if a jiva performs any act of auspiciousness for the atma, that becomes his sukrti. For example, if one fasts on the day of Ekadasi because food is unavailable, it becomes ‘unknowing’ sukrti—and will cause bhakti to appear in him. By donating anything to a sadhu, one attains the result of sukrti performed in knowledge.

 

Sukrti is also accumulated in living entities other than humans. A cow gives milk and her protector drinks the milk. One day a sadhu comes to his house and he offers that cow’s milk to this sadhu. By this, both the cow and her owner earn sukrti. Only those jivas who have earned a lot of sukrti develop sraddha in sadhus, and this sraddha is the root of premabhakti. When sraddha appears in the heart, one develops firm faith in the words of sastra and sadhu. At that time, a person gives up performing illusory activities and eagerly accepts the shelter of the Absolute Truth. A faith that “I am Krsna dasa” begins to develop, and a desire to serve Krsna under the guidance of sadhus appears in him. At that time he becomes intent upon giving up the service of nonreality or illusion, in the form of wife, son, and so on.

 

One who is devoid of sukrti cannot give up such attachments. However, one who is endowed with sukrti attains firm faith in statements such as ‘jivera svarupa haya, krsnera nitya-dasa’, the constitutional position of the jiva is that he is an eternal servant of Krsna. “Krsna bhakti karile sarva karma krto haya—by rendering service to Krsna, service to everyone else is performed.”

 

Impelled by this faith, one attains the strength to give up his obligations to his mother, father, wife, son, daughter and other bodily relations. Thus, by sadhu-sanga alone, the jiva becomes established in reality or truth.

 

Thus, man develops priti for Bhagavan, the Absolute Reality, by sincerely hearing His topics in the association of sadhus. Only bhagavat-priti or prema is parama-dharma, the supreme occupation of the jiva, and it is his only para santi, supreme peace.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

My teachings are the same as those of Srila Swami Maharaja. There may be some difference in my choice of words, or in my pronunciation, but our teachings are the same. Whatever I have written in my books, Srila Swami Maharaja has also written in his books - in books such as 'Bhagavad-gita As It Is.' My translation and commentary on Bhagavad-gita is a sequel to his. They are the same, but I am giving something more than he could give at the time. He did not extensively explain certain aspects of the philosophy at the time because he knew that his disciples would not be able to understand. Srila Swami Maharaja has taken the ideas of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, and I have taken the ideas of the Gurudeva of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. There is no difference between our teachings; all of my books are in the same line as his.

[Guruvani 0]

 

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

My teachings are the same as those of Srila Swami Maharaja. There may be some difference in my choice of words, or in my pronunciation, but our teachings are the same. Whatever I have written in my books, Srila Swami Maharaja has also written in his books - in books such as 'Bhagavad-gita As It Is.' My translation and commentary on Bhagavad-gita is a sequel to his. They are the same, but I am giving something more than he could give at the time. He did not extensively explain certain aspects of the philosophy at the time because he knew that his disciples would not be able to understand. Srila Swami Maharaja has taken the ideas of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, and I have taken the ideas of the Gurudeva of Sri Baladeva Vidyabhusana, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. There is no difference between our teachings; all of my books are in the same line as his.

The part of that propaganda that I think is bullshit is where he says Srila Prabhupada didn't get very deep into the explanations was because "he knew his disciples would not be able to understand".

 

I think this kind of thinking clearly shows that Narayana Maharaja is out of touch with the facts.

Srila Prabhupada presented his gita commentary to the western world, the non-devotees and Christian people of the western world.

That he followed the Baladeva Vidyabhusana commentary was because of the fact that it was his basic preaching format for bringing in westerners to Sanatan Dharma.

 

I don't think that Srila Prabhupada held back because as Narayana Maharaja said "his disciples could not understand", but because when you are preaching and canvassing to bring outsiders into the Sanatam Dharma it is only proper to start with the basics and then gradually bring them up to higher conceptions.

 

I think Narayana Maharaja is being just plain rude and arrogant when he says things like "because he knew his disciples could not understand".

 

I think it is bullshit, uncalled for and just begging to get your ass handed to you.

 

Srila Prabhupada's Gita was a preaching mission for bringing in western people to Sanatan Dharma.

 

Srila Prabhupada gave plenty of Goswami siddhanta in his graduate and post-graduate levels of instruction - Srimad Bhagavat and Sri Chaitanya Caritamrita.

 

This is the kind of crap talk that has created all the opposition and ill feelings towards him.

 

If he had any common sense, how in the hell could he talk that kind of shit without knowing that he would be offending so many followers of Srila Prabhupada?

 

We know better.

We were in ISKCON and we know that the vast majority of ISKCON devotees were totally receptive to the higher concepts of the Gaudiya philosophy.

 

This kind of talk out of Narayana Maharaja is what has turned thousands of devotees against him as he has offended the finer sentiments of the vast majority of the followers of Srila Prabhupada.

 

It just does'nt make any sense.

 

That kind of talk is coming from someone who has a total disconnect with the mood of the original ISKCON devotees and shows quite nicely how unfit and unqualified he was to be making such ignorant statements about the ISKCON devotees that he didn't know jacksquat about.

 

It's bullshit.

[Shakti-Fan 0]

March 1978: Just a teacher of a child, by installment he will supply the truth, not the whole truth to a child, but partially, gradually. So, the sastra, the scripture has also taken that path by installments. So guru is also, teacher is also in that way represented, just as sastra to the lowest, then superior, superior, superior. Teacher is also, guru is also. In that way, it is coming. Then at certain position, a workable truth. Otherwise, mainly within maya it is also working. Maya is not exclusively excluded from the interference of Godhead. Everywhere there is the presence of the Supreme. Otherwise, He is not Supreme. Everywhere is influence by gradation, degree it is.

[Guest guest]

 

Sridhar Maharaja March 1978: Just a teacher of a child, by installment he will supply the truth, not the whole truth to a child, but partially, gradually. So, the sastra, the scripture has also taken that path by installments. So guru is also, teacher is also in that way represented, just as sastra to the lowest, then superior, superior, superior. Teacher is also, guru is also. In that way, it is coming. Then at certain position, a workable truth. Otherwise, mainly within maya it is also working. Maya is not exclusively excluded from the interference of Godhead. Everywhere there is the presence of the Supreme. Otherwise, He is not Supreme. Everywhere is influence by gradation, degree it is.

 

I guess if Guruvani is correct then we should reject Srila Sridhar Maharaja as well as Srila Narayana Maharaja.

[Guruvani 0]

 

I guess if Guruvani is correct then we should reject Srila Sridhar Maharaja as well as Srila Narayana Maharaja.

It's not nice to abuse Sridhar Maharaja like that and try to present something as if he talked the same way Narayana Maharaja talked about Srila Prabhupada and his disciples.

 

Sridhar Maharaja is describing how shastra comes in gradations.

Srila Prabhupada certainly presented the Goswami siddhanta and the Gaudiya conclusions in his books.

Maybe he didn't start a gopi-bhava club with his Bhagavad-gita, but that doesn't mean that in his graduate teachings and post-graduate teachings that he didn't expound on the proper conclusions of Mahaprabhu and his disciples.

 

Sridhar Maharaja never talked so rudely so the ISKCON devotees.

 

Sridhar Maharaja himself was extremely reserved in his preachings and he even objected to some things that Srila Prabhupada approved.

 

Sridhar Maharaja objected to the rasa-lila being portayed in pictures.

Sridhar Maharaja objected to swinging Radha-Krishna deities on swings.

Sridhar Maharaja objected to Rathayatra being used a preaching device.

Sridhar Maharaja objected to even certain chapters of Chaitanya Caritamrita being read by neophytes.

 

Sridhar Maharaja certainly never started any gopi-bhava club and certainly showed the most conservative and reserved standards of any disciple of Srila Saraswati Goswami.

 

So, to propose that Sridhar Maharaja was saying that he was giving more than Srila Prabhupada or that Srila Prabhupada didn't teach the full-fledged Gaudiya conception is an abuse of Sridhar Maharaja.

 

I will never accept that Sridhar Maharaja ever made any such presentation to the devotees of the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

I think it is preposterous to try and draw a parallel between Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja and I think it is absurd.

 

Sridhar Maharaja was even more conservative than Srila Prabhupada in many ways. He certainly never took the position that he was giving the higher thing that Srila Prabhupada did not give because his disciples could not accept it.

[Guest guest]

 

Sridhar Maharaja objected to Rathayatra being used a preaching device.

 

He also objected to Rathayatra in Navadvip based on his own internal feelings....and that somehow became the basis of a religious war started and maintained by others. But when he "objected to Rathayatra being used as a preaching device" it was just ignored. Is this the Math politics that Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to be spared? And are not you buying in to that very politics?

[Guruvani 0]

 

He also objected to Rathayatra in Navadvip based on his own internal feelings....and that somehow became the basis of a religious war started and maintained by others. But when he "objected to Rathayatra being used as a preaching device" it was just ignored. Is this the Math politics that Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to be spared? And are not you buying in to that very politics?

 

I just gave examples of how Sridhar Maharaja even had his own standards that seemed to be in opposition to some things that Srila Prabhupada allowed or did.

So, that fact that Sridhar Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja had differences over Rathayatra in Navadvip, has nothing to do with my lack of love for Narayana Maharaja.

 

It's Narayana Maharaja's rude and offensive preaching that he was giving something higher than Srila Prabhupada and that Srila Prabhupada short-changed his disciples is what totally turns me off to Narayana Maharaja.

 

I just don't see how he can't understand that such preaching would create a firestorm of backlash against him by so many ISKCON devotees.

 

I really don't know and I don't care what caused him to talk such crap as that, but one thing I know for sure is that I could never take siksha or sanga from him after having heard him speak such nonsense.

 

I think there are several such examples that show that he was out of touch with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and out of touch with the sentiments of ISKCON devotees and certainly unqualified to be awarded any kind of leadership of the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

I think that the devotees who dragged him into ISKCON internal affairs probably deserve plenty of blame for all the offenses that have been commited by injecting Narayana Maharaja onto the world scene of the Krishna consciousness movement.

 

Narayana Maharaja did not belong on the world scene of the KC movement.

[Guest guest]

 

It's Narayana Maharaja's rude and offensive preaching that he was giving something higher than Srila Prabhupada and that Srila Prabhupada short-changed his disciples is what totally turns me off ...

 

The same exact accusations were made against Sridhar Maharaj by the ISKCON GBC and their followers in the early 1980s.

[Guruvani 0]

 

The same exact accusations were made against Sridhar Maharaj by the ISKCON GBC and their followers in the early 1980s.

 

Then please produce some evidence that Sridhar Maharaja ever preached like that.

I don't think you can, because I don't think Sridhar Maharaja ever preached like that.

Just because the GBC and ISKCON gurus were talking shit about Sridhar Maharaja that doesn't mean it was true.

 

Whereas, we have documented evidence that Narayana Maharaja said what he said that so many find objectionable.

[Guest guest]

 

Whereas, we have documented evidence that Narayana Maharaja said what he said that so many find objectionable.

Although Sridhar Maharaj was more soft spoken, the arch-conservatives in the ISKCON camp were reacting to a principle which Sridhar Maharaj expressed that they found threatening. Just the fact that a teacher, teaches in installments was beyond their conception. Could this mean that the second installment is fuller than the first? If not then there were no ABC's to learn, no parables. Every instruction was the same as another. There was no difference from pravacan or preaching and the highest Gaudiya siddhanta. And in many ISKCON circles including the official, they believe that "Back to Godhead" means that the conditioned jivas originate in Goloka. How do you think they came to that conclusion? In your rabid attempt to denigrate an elderly Gaudiya sannyasi, you attack the very principles that you promote in another discussion. How very inconsistent! Next you'll have us believing that Sridhar Maharaj appointed a rtvik successor!

[Guruvani 0]

 

Although Sridhar Maharaj was more soft spoken, the arch-conservatives in the ISKCON camp were reacting to a principle which Sridhar Maharaj expressed that they found threatening. Just the fact that a teacher, teaches in installments was beyond their conception. Could this mean that the second installment is fuller than the first? If not then there were no ABC's to learn, no parables. Every instruction was the same as another. There was no difference from pravacan or preaching and the highest Gaudiya siddhanta. And in many ISKCON circles including the official, they believe that "Back to Godhead" means that the conditioned jivas originate in Goloka. How do you think they came to that conclusion? In your rabid attempt to denigrate an elderly Gaudiya sannyasi, you attack the very principles that you promote in another discussion. How very inconsistent! Next you'll have us believing that Sridhar Maharaj appointed a rtvik successor!

Wipe the foam off the sides of your mouth and listen for once!

 

The GBC and ISKCON guru position against Sridhar Maharaja was based on the fact that they saw him as a threat to their guru status and someone who might attract their potential disciples away from them.

 

It was more politics than doctrinal differences.

 

Maybe I can refresh your memory that the GBC officially sent a delegation to Sridhar Maharaja before he passed away to ask him for foregiveness for their mistakes and opposition to him. He graciously accepted their apology.

 

Please show me where the GBC and ISKCON gurus ever undertook such repentence towards Narayana Maharaja?

 

They never did and I predict that they NEVER will.

The enmity in ISKCON towards Narayana Maharaja is unrelenting and insatiable.

 

The fact is, he has spoken words that most ISKCON devotees will never forgive.

[Devarsirat 0]

Guruvani can you please stop talking about Srila Narayana maharaja in such a bad way?

 

Srila Narayana maharaja has not started a new gopy bhava club, i wish you would stop preaching these lies, there is nothing unauthorised going on at Srila Narayana maharajas camp.

 

I have been with Him now for almost 4 years and have listened to almost all of His classes and conversations and if He says something about anyone you should try and see it in its proper context and see the truth behind it.

 

Anyway here we are you are defending Srila Sridhar Maharaja, how does it feel to be in the line of fire for a change?

 

Its okay for you to offend Srila Narayana Maharaja and talk about things you havnt the slightest about, who cares if you dont like Him or His disciples, or what you think will happen to His movement after His demise?

 

There are tens of thausands of His followers with incredible high spiritual understanding, its not that you are the authority on these matters. You think His movement is a small movement? Its huge in fact.

 

How dare you to suggest He is not belonging to the world sceene of the Krishna movement, or that He suggested that He is teaching something higher then Srila Prabhupada? I have never heared Him saying this, He is just cottoning on where Srila Prabhupada stopped and explaines Srila Prabhupadas purports which you still try to illuminate with the small torchlight of your limited mind.

 

You think that Krishna Consciouss knowledge ends with what is written in Srila Prabhupadas books? That Srila Prabhupadas books are it and that there is nothing else? In the short time Srila Prabhupada had, you think everything was revealed? you are just touching the shores of an ocean, Krishna is unlimited, there is not end to His pastimes, there is no end to the wonders and amazing things still to be revealed, unlimited and never ending and that is true, it is a fact.

 

We are living in a time in which all these things are coming to light and different acaryas reveal what is neccessary at the time, to expand and to enlighten the souls of this world. This does not mean that one is better then the other.

 

Love for god is flowing from the spiritual master to the disciple and as the disciple advances new things are revealed to Him, but those revelations are not static, new spiritual masters arrive and reveal new things, building on what the ones before have tought.

 

In Srila Narayana maharaja there is no envy and He does not need any approaval from anyone, all these spiritual masters are great stalwarts in the line of devotion.

 

The transcendental world does not conflict with itself, but is in harmony and your comments about Srila Narayana Maharaja show me the maya you are in.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja has nothing but love for Srila Prabhupada. Like Srila Sridhar Maharaja, he is like a trailing current in the wake of Srila Prabhupada, sometimes the currents go this way and other times that way, each performing its own purposes and sometimes they even appear contrary to the central purpose.

 

But this is all an illusion, its the great waves of the ocean of love for Krishna which expand everywhere like Krishnas smile and which can not be checked.

 

I bear witness to the light and the illumination and sweetness I have seen in Srila Prabhupada and seen also in Srila Narayana Maharaja, what else can i do?

 

Again I am warning you to give up this faul talk, I can only see harm coming from it.

 

Srila Prabhupada has demonstrated faith and much more, He has made the Truth accessable to all and this is the work of the great devotees. Their work is primarily to manifest the reality of God.

 

Such great devotees are beyond the faulty logic of the neophites mind. We can not and we must not criticise them in any way, unless we want to have our advancement checked completely.

 

I will leave this tread now, I have no time or tolerance for guruvanis irrelevant posts.

[Guest guest]

 

Wipe the foam off the sides of your mouth and listen for once!

 

 

 

They never did and I predict that they NEVER will.

The enmity in ISKCON towards Narayana Maharaja is unrelenting and insatiable.

 

 

 

....will never forgive.

 

These are very emotionally provocative statements belying a type of darkness within, attempted to be projected to the outside. Not a good way to analyze and debate concepts. Sometimes it's the only weapon left for one losing the debate. Its not a sign of strength but of weakness.

 

 

It was more politics than doctrinal differences.

 

Sure it was, like the GBC and the arch-conservatives weren't threatened that Sridhar Maharaj told that the jivas origins are the tathastha or brahman? Or you are audacious enough in your vitriolic attack upon a venerable, elderly Gaudiya sannyasi to suggest that ISKCON could accept the concept of the Bhagavat parampara in the early 80's! Or that ISKCON could accept that, "you can't learn everything from one guru". Or that Sridhar Maharaj did not accept having Rathayatra ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip! I'll let you off the hook this time and we'll drop this part of the debate.

[muralidhar_das 0]

If some non-devotee becomes a devotee through the preaching of devotees of Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti, they will naturally have greater respect for the members of Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti than for other groups of Vaishnavas, at least in the kanistha stage. A more advanced devotee will respect everyone, even Ramchandra Puri.

 

Same goes if you first of all join ISKCON, or Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math.

 

Most of the problems between different Sanghas of devotees arise when members of one group try to get people to leave the society they are currently in and become members of a different society.

 

Why is it that Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math devotees and the leaders of ISKCON are not fighting? Because Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math devotees do not try and get people to leave ISKCON. Or Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti. In the 1980's some people from ISKCON joined Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math and in the 1980's sometimes there was conflict. But that was 20 years ago and these days you find that on Govinda Maharaj's birthday Swami Jayapataka is sending 25 birthday cakes to Nabadwip.

 

Live and let live.

[muralidhar_das 0]

 

...Or that ISKCON could accept that, "you can't learn everything from one guru". Or that Sridhar Maharaj did not accept having Rathayatra ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip!

 

ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Surely you mean to say something diifferent frrom what you wrote.

[Guest guest]

 

Live and let live

Yeah, but these North Florida boys like fight'n too much. Why don't Guruvani and Mr. Melody-Boy engage their fight'n Ksatriya propensities and meet us down at Lochloosa Lake and we'll get us some deer (once a month, 50 rounds) and offer it to a demigod.

[Guest guest]

 

ANYWHERE outside of Navadvip!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

Surely you mean to say something diifferent frrom what you wrote.

Well I'm not perfect and you know a lot more than me. So clarification may be needed here.