question on reincarnation

[Guest guest]

Can someone knowledgable answer this: how did the original saints/sages learn about reincarnation and the existence of jivas? It stems from the basic question of what happens after death which people ask to this day. But the sages apparently found these answers and recorded them.

 

What does the scripture say about the procedure through which the rishis discovered these truths, and if we follow them can we also obtain such knowledge? Is it a Yoga, meditation, or simply devotion to God, or were the truths just revealed ?

 

(I understand that the emphasis is on devotion or jnana regarding God or Brahman; however these points regarding jiva, transmigration, lokas, etc are heavily held on to.)

[nitai16108 0]

Hare Krishna

 

All glories to srila prabhupad

 

Dandavts

 

The poeple lived in satya yuga which is said to be golden age are very intelligent and they are capable of memorizing the verses and teachings of their Guru. because it was pious period and now this Kali yuga which is said to be age of darkness and people living in this kali yuga are very much eager of earning money, sense gartification, safe guarding their properties and also much of attachment towards the material things. and also very lazy and not eager in self realization process and there is no chance of getting that type of knowledge just by heraing. we are not remembering the Bhagavad gita if we are reading for 10 or 20 times. we all are less in intelligence. The easy process which is recommended for this age of kali is to chant the holy name of the lord. Kali kale dharma krishna nama sankirtana. The occupational duty of a person who is in kali yuga is to chant the holy name of the lord.Chant hare krishna maha mantra which is yuga dharma which is easy process.

 

Chant

hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

 

Hari bol

[Beggar 0]

From The Golden Vocano of Divine Love by Srila Bhakti Rakskak Sridhar Maharaja

Sri Gauranga-avatara

Sri Gauranga-avatara has twofold characteristics: the apparent reason for His advent is to deliver the people in general from sin, and to give them the highest attainment of life—to take them towards Vrndavana, braja-lila, by giving the holy name of Krsna. This is actually the function of the yuga-avatara, the incarnation of Godhead for the age. The Lord comes to distribute divine sound and to show how one can reach the highest position through divine sound. Still, He had another purpose to fulfill. Once in Brahma's day—in a special Kali-yuga—Krsna Himself comes in the mood of Radharani to search Himself. He wants to taste the mood of Radharani, to understand the nature of Her inner hankering for Krsna, how She can taste the sweetness of Krsna by Her mood, and what is the joy She derives.

Krsna wanted to have some experience of why Radharani is so mad for Him. He thought, "What is there in Me that makes Her so immeasurably mad for Me? What sweetness can She draw from Me? I can't ascertain it." He wanted to mold Himself in the mood of Sri Radhika and try to taste His own self from that temperament. So He came as Sri Caitanya.

When He conceived of such an incarnation, and pro-posed His idea to Srimati Radharani, we are told that Radharani, on Her part, said, "Sometimes You will madly roll on the earth, taking My name, but I won't be able to tolerate it. I shall cover Your body with My golden form. I won't allow You to roll on the earth. I shall cover You with My embrace." So it is said by those who know the ontological aspect of Sri Caitanyadeva, "I offer my respects to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, whose mood and color is Radharani's and whose inner self is Krsna searching for Himself, tasting Himself, and trying to understand why Radharani is mad to taste Him and what sort of sweetness She finds in Him (radha bhava dyuti suualitam naumi krsna svarupam).

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu remained in this world for forty-eight years. In the last twelve years of His life. He engaged Himself with deep attention in tasting Himself. Just as everyone is mad to taste sweetness, Krsna, sweetness personified, is also mad to taste Himself.

Introspection means to know oneself. Consciousness can know consciousness. And just as one can feel his own body, or consciousness can conceive of itself, ecstasy can also taste ecstasy. This is confirmed by Svarupa Damodara Prabhu, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's personal secretary, who is considered to be Lalita-sakhi, the nearest friend of Srimati Radharani in the pastimes of Krsna. He has said what Sri Caitanyadeva is:

 

radha krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladinisaktir asmad

ekatmanav api bhuvi pura deha-bhedam gatau tau

caitanyakhyam prakatam adhuna tad-dvayam caikyam aptam

radha-bhava-dyuti-suvalitam naumi krsna svarupam

 

"I worship Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is Krsna Himself, enriched with the emotions and radiance of Srimati Radharani. As the predominating and predominated moieties, Radha and Krsna are eternally one, with separate individual identities. Now They have again united as Sri Krsna Caitanya. This inconceivable transformation of the Lord's internal pleasure-giving potency has arisen from the loving affairs of Radha and Krsna."

In this verse, Svarupa Damodara says that the pastimes of Radha-Krsna and those of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are parallel and eternal. Whether winter is first and summer follows, or summer is first and winter follows, is difficult to say. Similarly, in the eternal pastimes of Ihe Lord, the movement is rolling in a circle. Therefore, Svarupa Damodara says, "Whether Caitanya-avatara is first and Krsna-avatara is next, or Krsna-avatara is first and Caitanya-avatara is next is difficult to say—both are eternal."

And who is Sri Radha? She is the development of the sweetness that springs from Krsna Himself. That sweetness, in a developed form as Radha, springs up from within Krsna; Srimati Radharani is a particular potency coming out of Krsna Himself: hladini sakti. So Radha and Krsna cannot be conceived of as separate entities; the two of Them are one and the same. Still, we are told that in ancient times They divided into two. And then again, both of Them combine as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, whose luster and mood is that of Srimati Radharani and whose nature and reality within is Sri Krsna's. Fire and heat cannot be separated; sun and light cannot exist separately. They are one and the same. The Absolute Truth is one absolute substance (advaya-jnana), but sometimes Radha and Govinda show Themselves as divided and again They are united. When They are together, They are enjoying each other, and sometimes They experience painful separation without the possibility of union. That is Their d ivine nature.

Sri Rupa Goswami explains this as follows:

 

aher iva gatih premnah

svabhava-kutila bhavet

ato hetor ahetos ca

yunor mana udancati

 

He says that just as a serpent naturally moves in a crooked way, in a zigzag way, the nature of love is naturally crooked. It is not straight. So the concerned parties quarrel, sometimes with cause and sometimes without cause, and separation comes. Separation is necessary for the transcendental pastimes of Radha and Krsna.

The Pangs Of Separation

There are four kinds of separation: purva-raga, mana, prabasa and prema-vaicittya. Purva-raga means before meeting. This is found when Radha and Govinda are not actually meeting, but somehow one has come in remote connection with the other's name, portrait, or something of that nature. When Radha hears Krsna's name or the sound of the flute—no real meeting is there, but there is some connection. The sound of Krsna's flute, a picture of Krsna, or Krsna's name may bring about purva-raga. And Krsna may experience something similar by hearing the sound of Srimati Radharani's name. In this way, there are pangs of separation, but no actual meeting. The name is so sweet that He can't contain Himself; She can't contain Herself.

When the holy name of Krsna enters within Srimati Radharani's ear. She becomes perturbed, thinking, "Is a name as sweet as this possible within this world?" This is Her reaction, and She experiences pain also. She feels, "I can't meet Him." A pang of separation comes within Her heart. That is purva-raga: the pain of separation that comes before meeting.

Mana is another kind of separation. Mana means that when meeting, there is some difference between Them in trifling matters. This is the very nature of love. Therefore, Srila Rupa Goswami say 'that love moves in a curved way like a serpent. It is not diseased, but this is the nature of the path of love. Sometimes with a trifling cause, or with no cause, a feeling comes that, "He is neglecting Me; He wants to avoid Me." And thereby Srimati Radharani thinks, "\ don't want His company." Although cent per cent appreciation is there, still, for the time being, some opposing sentiments spring up from underground; a clash comes in the sentiments of the two, and one wants to avoid the company of the other.

Transcendental Jealousy

In prema-vaicittya, jealousy rises to such a degree that although They are already together, still some sort of thought comes within and makes Them think that They are far away from each other. These different kinds of separation are found only in the madhurya-rasa. Prema-vaicittya is that condition which arises when Krsna is there and Radharani is just nearby, but seeing Her own shadow reflected on the body of Krsna, She is so jealous that She thinks that it is another lady. So, great pangs of separation come within Her, and She thinks, "What is this? Another lady is there!" Her mind revolts. But Her friend, Lalita, is warning Her, "What are You saying? It is only Your own image reflected there. Can't You see it?" Then Radharani comes to Her consciousness. She particularly notices, "Oh, it is My own shadow." Then that feeling is immediately gone. This is an example of prema-vaicittya .These are extremely high transcendental subjects, and althoug h this is not to be discussed in details, this is the nature of divine love in union and separation. Both are interdependent, for one cannot stay without the other, and separation is created willingly to enhance union.

Another kind of separation is called prabasa. There are two types of prabasa: one is when the separation is for a limited time; another is when one has left the country for a far-off place, as when Krsna went to Mathura to attend to other duties. These are the four types of separation pangs between the lover and the beloved.

Of course these transcendental topics are very high, and we should not indulge in them carelessly, for if we project mundane characteristics into the higher plane, our future realization will be harmed. Our mundane experience will tend to take us down, so we must proceed with caution. What we conceive of at present is not to be found in the plane of Krsna's pastimes—it is a far higher plane of existence than the realm of our experience. Our vision is adulterated. We have only an alloyed conception of the original thing. We must keep this in mind, and with this caution we may deal with these things.

[Guest guest]

From nitai's answer, the conclusion seems to be that it is no longer possible for those of this yuga to obtain the knowledge of such things; our business is to devote to God.

 

From Beggar's answer, it seems such questions should not be considered at all as they take our minds away from Krishna.

 

Thanks for your responses. I think the questions cannot be answered absolutely and belief in absolute answers cannot be beyond belief, including the belief that in a different yuga, the right answers were found and these are it. However, your practical conclusion that the right thing to do is to find Krishna starting with our present state is wholly sensible. Thanks.

[gHari 0]

http://vedabase.net/sb/6/1/40/en

"The transcendental words of the Vedas emanated from the mouth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

 

http://vedabase.net/nbs/30/en

"Elsewhere it is stated that the Vedas are the "breathing of Narayana." The Vedic scriptures are sometimes manifest and sometimes not, but they exist eternally."

[Guest guest]

 

"The transcendental words of the Vedas emanated from the mouth of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

 

"Elsewhere it is stated that the Vedas are the "breathing of Narayana." The Vedic scriptures are sometimes manifest and sometimes not, but they exist eternally."

 

Thanks Hari. However is it known as to how the rishis would have come to know of this knowledge, since it has been transferred from mouth to ear ? At some point, the sages

must have had some revelation (of Vedic verses or of the facts therein?) and this they transferred to others. Is this the general consensus? Is such direct revelation of facts such as reincarnation possible for people today, or is that absolutely denied? Is it the pure lives that the sages lived that made it possible for them to know transcendental truths contained in the Vedas, or is there more (special yoga, etc)? I want to know whether such questions are considered by those who study the Vedas and what answers they have.

 

Your quote " ... scriptures are ... manifest" or not seems to suggest other questions as well. I will just state them. 1. What does manifest mean? 2. Does their manifestation depend on Narayana's will, or just a process with which He does not deliberate? 3. Does this mean that the rishis who saw these truths did so when the Vedas were "manifest" but in other yugas the scriptures may not be manifest: i.e. the same rishis would not have this revelation in the wrong yuga. (This may be why many talk of the kali yuga as one not suitable for such knowledge.)

 

I will look at the web sites you suggested. I ask these questions because the mind is a bit of a sceptic underneath unless it is promised direct knowledge at some point. The better approach as I agreed before is to bypass these types of details and focus on God-realization. Then much of the conflicts in religions and religious groups will be avoided on common ground.

[gHari 0]

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/40/en

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deva-ṛṣiḥ — the sage among the demigods; BG 10.12-13

ṛṣiḥ — Śrī Vyāsadeva; SB 1.3.40

ṛṣiḥ — Vyāsadeva; SB 1.4.16

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the great sage among the demigods; SB 1.9.19

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — a saint amongst kings; SB 1.16.36

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the sage amongst the kings; SB 1.17.43-44

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — saint amongst the royal order; SB 1.18.46

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — saintly king; SB 2.1.13

ṛṣiḥ — great sage; SB 3.4.22

ṛṣiḥ — learned scholar; SB 3.4.26

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the Ṛṣi Maitreya said; SB 3.6.1

ṛṣiḥ — the great sage; SB 3.12.24

ṛṣiḥ — the first seer (Brahmā); SB 3.20.52

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great sage said; SB 3.21.13

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great sage Maitreya said; SB 3.21.22

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly king; SB 3.21.26

ṛṣiḥ — sage; SB 3.21.35

ṛṣiḥ — the great sage Kardama; SB 3.22.15

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage said; SB 3.24.2

ṛṣiḥ — the living entity; SB 3.31.11

ṛṣiḥ — the living entity; SB 3.31.22

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great sage Maitreya said; SB 4.3.15

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — great saintly king; SB 4.9.65

ṛṣiḥ — the saint; SB 4.12.40

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly King Ańga; SB 4.13.18

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly king; SB 4.13.25

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly King; SB 4.17.5

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly king; SB 4.28.33

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly King; SB 4.29.81

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the great saint Nārada; SB 5.1.9

mahā-ṛṣiḥ — Nārada; SB 5.1.11

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — pious King (Nābhi); SB 5.3.13

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; SB 5.6.2

rāja-ṛṣiḥ bharataḥ — the great, saintly King Bharata; SB 5.8.7

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued to speak; SB 5.16.4

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great saint (Śukadeva Gosvāmī) said; SB 5.26.2

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great sage replied; SB 5.26.5

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued to speak; SB 6.7.34

ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly person; SB 6.10.2

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great saint Dadhīci said; SB 6.10.7

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; SB 6.12.1

ṛṣiḥ — sage; SB 6.14.14

mahā-ṛṣiḥ — the great sage; SB 6.14.16

ṛṣiḥ — the saintly person; SB 6.14.61

ṛṣiḥ — the sage; SB 6.15.12-15

ṛṣiḥ — sage; SB 6.15.17

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the great sage Nārada; SB 6.16.1

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; SB 7.1.4-5

ṛṣiḥ — sage; SB 7.1.22

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the great saint Nārada; SB 7.7.7

ṛṣiḥ — the great saint Nārada Ṛṣi; SB 7.7.12

ṛṣiḥ — the great sage Nārada Muni; SB 7.7.15

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great saint Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; SB 8.1.4

ṛṣiḥ — the great sage; SB 8.4.9

ṛṣiḥ — all Vedic literatures; SB 8.7.30

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the great sage of the heavenly planets; SB 8.11.43

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; SB 8.14.2

ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly Vasiṣṭha Muni; SB 8.23.29

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — a king equally qualified as a great saintly person; SB 8.24.10

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — Satyavrata, the saintly King; SB 8.24.40

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly king; SB 9.1.2-3

mahān ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly person; SB 9.2.21

ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly person; SB 9.2.32

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — saintly king (Purañjaya); SB 9.6.19

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly king; SB 9.9.10

ṛṣiḥ — Yājñavalkya Ṛṣi; SB 9.12.2

ṛṣiḥ — the great saint; SB 9.15.8

brahma-ṛṣiḥ — the best of the brāhmaṇas; SB 9.18.5

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly King Duṣmanta; SB 9.20.17

ṛṣiḥ — a great saintly person; SB 10.6.32

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the supreme saintly person among the demigods; SB 10.10.5

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage (Śukadeva) said; SB 10.16.64

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the sage among the demigods (Nārada Muni); SB 10.37.9

ṛṣiḥ — the sage, Nārada; SB 10.69.1-6

ṛṣiḥ — the sage; SB 10.69.16

ṛṣiḥ — the sage, Nārada; SB 10.69.42

ṛṣiḥ — the sage (Nārada Muni); SB 10.70.32

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the sage of the demigods, Nārada; SB 10.71.11

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the great sage, Śukadeva, said; SB 10.83.5

ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage (Śrī Śukadeva) said; SB 10.85.34

ṛṣiḥ — the learned sage, Brahmā; SB 10.87.24

vipra-ṛṣiḥ — the wise brāhmaṇa; SB 10.89.25

deva-ṛṣiḥ — the sage among the demigods; SB 11.2.10

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage (Śukadeva Gosvāmī) said; SB 11.30.4

ṛṣiḥ — the great sage; SB 12.4.41

rāja-ṛṣiḥ — the great saintly King; SB 12.6.9-10

śrī-ṛṣiḥ uvāca — the sage said; SB 12.9.4

ṛṣiḥ — the sage Mārkaṇḍeya; SB 12.9.8-9

brahma-ṛṣiḥ — the saintly brāhmaṇa; SB 12.10.6

ṛṣiḥ — the sage; SB 12.10.26

ṛṣiḥ — great sage; CC Madhya 17.186

ṛṣiḥ — great sage; CC Madhya 25.57

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the URLs. I will study them further. Here are a few thoughts on some that I read.

 

1.3.40 "There are selected histories of great devotees who are in direct contact with the Personality of Godhead."

1.3.40 "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the literary incarnation of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa and is therefore nondifferent from Him…. It carries with it all the transcendental blessings of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa that we can expect from His personal contact."

 

(From this I would assume that this direct contact is possible for one who becomes a great devotee, although a great devotee may have no such expectation. But it is also true that devotees (like Dhruva) who had such a desire still attained the Lord. The necessary condition indicated for the attainment of direct contact is a complete faith and longing.

 

This is a really tough proposition: knowledge of the Godhead will allow for a complete faith in His great and protecting qualities, etc. But in this world, the requirement is a complete faith BEFORE a knowledge of Him. Even demons like Hiranyakasipu had knowledge of Sri Hari’s existence though they lacked faith/knowledge of His true glories. But for us, the knowledge of Him is replaced by the ‘supposed’ recordings of His stories (supposed because again it is faith in their validity before knowledge).)

 

1.4.16 "The great sages like Vyāsadeva are liberated souls, and therefore they can see clearly past and future."

 

(This suggests that it is possible for us to become liberated like Vyasadeva even while in these bodies; and when this liberation is attained, all these transcendental truths like reincarnation, etc. will become transparent.)

 

3.4.26 "To be well versed in the transcendental science necessitates awareness of the techniques of spiritual science."

 

(By well versed, I understand to acquire a direct knowledge of God, soul, reincarnation, one must follow patiently and with faith the spiritual path, and the other knowledge WILL come. This is the assurance the Bhagavatha is giving.)

 

3.2.13

 

(The purport of Kardama Muni’s realization seems to indicate that the Muni is seeing the Lord (or His form) wherever the ordinary person sees the world, and the last sentence suggests that this experience is really that of the eternal form of the Lord. It can also be interpreted as saying the Muni engages his eye (mental eye) always on the form of Krishna, mental ear always in Hare Krishna mantra, and so on.

 

In one case, this very world becomes the form of the Lord when we realize that there is a Personality behind it and interpenetrating through it. In the other case, the Godhead is quite apart with the special form of Krishna and whose power is driving the world, etc.

 

Devotees generally think in the second manner. What is really this “eternal form of the Lord” that an “advanced” devotee sees?)

 

3.21.22

 

(The above question seems to have a partial answer here, since Kardama Muni sees Lord Vishnu shining on the shoulders of Garuda. This again seems to suggest that without question the ultimate experience of Krishna is with a fixed form who travels on the Garuda. This is a very ordinary eye like experience, but the purport quickly tells us that we should interpret everything from the transcendental level. What does this mean??? How much of the Krishna with flute in His hands a true depiction and how much is allegorical? The Bhaktha, who is at the ordinary sensual level wants to think of God with particular form, etc. and therefore wants to take such details in the Bhagavatha literally. Or are we to understand that such details are really just a storyline indicating the “transcendental” realizations of the sages?)

 

(People like me try to take the latter approach till we have the “direct contact” otherwise.)

[gHari 0]

http://vedabase.net/bs/5/38/en

 

http://vedabase.net/sb/1/7/4/en

[dattaswami 0]

 

Can someone knowledgable answer this: how did the original saints/sages learn about reincarnation and the existence of jivas? It stems from the basic question of what happens after death which people ask to this day. But the sages apparently found these answers and recorded them.

 

What does the scripture say about the procedure through which the rishis discovered these truths, and if we follow them can we also obtain such knowledge? Is it a Yoga, meditation, or simply devotion to God, or were the truths just revealed ?

 

(I understand that the emphasis is on devotion or jnana regarding God or Brahman; however these points regarding jiva, transmigration, lokas, etc are heavily held on to.)

 

Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.

If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.

If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.

People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.

The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.

Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.

Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.

[theist 1]

 

Is it a Yoga, meditation, or simply devotion to God, or were the truths just revealed ?

 

 

All of the above. By the practice of yoga and prana yama the mind becomes able to concentrate inward so one can be attentive to hear the revelation from the Lord in the heart.

 

But even with devotion alone the Lord becomes inclined to reveal to His devotee all vedic truths and even the most confidential of truths of Divine Love which are reserved for the bhakta.

 

But the final answer is by revelation from the Lord as that is due to His free will alone. He is not obliged to speak to anyone.

[dattaswami 0]

 

All of the above. By the practice of yoga and prana yama the mind becomes able to concentrate inward so one can be attentive to hear the revelation from the Lord in the heart.

 

But even with devotion alone the Lord becomes inclined to reveal to His devotee all vedic truths and even the most confidential of truths of Divine Love which are reserved for the bhakta.

 

But the final answer is by revelation from the Lord as that is due to His free will alone. He is not obliged to speak to anyone.

 

Devotion

 

The relationship of the devotee with the Lord is called devotion. Devotion is love for he Lord. Love is proved by service or seva. Claims of love without service are fraudulent. Praying, meditation, intellectual discussions, words, feelings or singing hymns does not substantiate devotion. If a husband loves his wife then he must serve her when she is ill. If he just sits by her side with his eyes closed or meditates upon her or chants her name aloud, while refusing to practically serve her by giving her medicines, food and drink, then he is only making a show of love; he does not really love her. The one who really loves her will serve her.

The Lord is pleased only with total devotion. The Gita says “eka bhakti? visi?yate”. He wants the devotee to love Him alone; not anyone or anything else. Nobody or nothing should be equal to Him. He will make the devotee reach this stage of devotion. This is the essence of all the datta parik?a or the tests of the Lord. The devotee will be tested severely till he breaks all bonds with everyone and everything in the world, till only the bond with the Lord remains. The Lord does not compromise in this aspect. He will not tolerate even a drop of the devotee's attachment to anything or anyone in the world.

Lord Krishna tested Radha very severely.

She was His beloved in v?ndavanam. When the Lord left v?ndavanam he left her behind. Not only that but He even married other women. He offered protection to sixteen thousand women. He never returned to v?ndavanam to Radha. He never inquired about her. He never even saw her face again. Such was the severity of His test. His intention was to see if Radha would get jealous. The weakness of a woman is her lover. No woman can tolerate any other women around her lover. Radha, who was the Lord's beloved, for many years in v?ndavanam had all the reason to get jealous of the wives of Lord Krishna. Yet her love was pure. It was free of expectation. She never once gave in to jealousy. She was ever full of love for Him. She would constantly imagine herself falling at the feet of the Lord. She died pining for Him. The Lord was extremely pleased with her and gave her his eternal companionship in the uppermost world.

The Lord tested Hanuman in the aspect of egotism. He gave Hanuman ample opportunity to develop egotism. Lord Rama never displayed any special powers to prove that He was the Lord. Hanuman himself had a lot of super powers and had to use them more than Lord Rama. The Lord also made sure that Hanuman was compelled to use those powers to save Him. He made Hanuman save Lakshmana's life by lifting the dro?agiri mountain in order to obtain the life saving sañjivani herb. When Lord Rama and Lakshmana, both were knocked unconscious by the powerful demon, indrajit, Hanuman had to fly to the heavens and bring garu?a the Divine Eagle, in order to save them. Thus the Lord made it appear that it was Hanuman, who was never incapacitated in the war while the Lord Himself was. It was Hanuman who had to rescue the Lord. It was Hanuman who displayed super powers and not the Lord. It would appear to a common observer that Hanuman was the Lord and not Lord Rama. However Hanuman's devotion was sublime. He did not fall pray to egotism. He understood fully well that Lord Rama was the Lord and that He was only testing him. He therefore said “daso'ha? kosalendrasya; “I am the servant of the Lord.”