How many times did Srila Prabhupada refer to ISKCON as Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

[Guest guest]

 

Did the original Gaudiya Vaishnavas who were not born into brahmana families given brahminical initiation to non-brahmanas?

Srila Narottama das Thakur and Srila Syamananda Prabhu were both born in sudra families and they had many disciples born in brahmin families.

[shambu 0]

 

I am asking for the devotees to please present references from Srila Prabhupada in his books and lectures etc. where he describes ISKCON as being Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

Are you doubting in any way that ISKCON is a branch of Gaudiya Vaisnavism? I think Prabhupada hardly referred to ISKCON as being specifically Gaudiya, because he wanted to distinguish his intitution from the already existing Gaudiya institutions in India, generally referred to as Gaudiya Math, that he didn't want to identify with at that time. Also he wanted to emphasize the universal aspect of Krishna consciousness. "Gaudiya Vaisnavism" in a sense sounds rather limited and sectarian, as if it is supposed to be practiced only by Gaudiyas, or people from Bengal.

 

One could say that ISKCON is another Gaudiya Math - nowadays quite a few Gaudiya Math institutions have spread their activities all over the world, inspired by Prabhupada's succes, so not only ISKCON can claim to be an international Gaudiya institution. They all share the same basic ideas, sing the same devotional songs, read the same books and accept the same Guru-varga etc.

 

At the time when Prabhupada founded ISKCON and wrote his books, he was "at loggerheads" with most Gaudiya institutions and acharyas, so that's probably why he avoided calling ISKCON Gaudiya Vaisnavism. He wanted to stress that his Society was an independent one, and that Krishna-consciousness is universal in nature and not sectarian.

 

Somewhere in Caitanya Caritamrta Prabhupada speaks about the "Caitanya Tree", explaining that ISKCON is supposed to be one branch of that tree. Maybe some devotee could come up with the exact quote. Haribol.

[Guest guest]

 

Srila Narottama das Thakur and Srila Syamananda Prabhu were both born in sudra families and they had many disciples born in brahmin families.

 

That can be a trick aswer though.

 

Because some are saying that before Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur the Gaudiyas did not give upanayana, the Vaidic brahminical initiation and sacred thread.

 

So, Syamananda and Narottama could have been giving Harinama initiation and not brahminical initiation.

 

Sridhar Maharaja said:

 

Although Mahaprabhu had not introduced this, our Guru Maharaja, adjusted the society to bring Mahaprabhu’s teachings to the world in a broad way.

 

Previously, Rupa, Sanatana and their followers did not care to accept the sacred thread of the brahmana. Also, in the sannyasa system of varnasrama, Sankara and others give up the sacred thread to the fire when they take sannyasa, showing that they have no necessity of a sacred thread; they’re above that, above brahmana.

 

So, how is it that people are saying that Narottama and Syamananda gave Vaidic upanayana sacred thread diksha to their disciples?

[Guest guest]

Did the genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava society organize under a GBC committee?

 

Where is there any precedent or authority for forming a GBC that dictates to gurus and acharyas?

 

On what authority and shastric basis was the GBC formed?

[Pankaja_Dasa 1]

 

Originally Posted by Guest

Were the Vraja gopis "Gaudiya Vaishnavas"?

Was Madhavendra Puri a Gaudiya Vaishnava?

 

Was Bilvamangal Thakur a Gaudiya Vaishnava?

 

Is Krishna consciousness the monopoly of Gaudiya Vaishnavas?

 

 

"Gaudiya vaishnavas" generally meant vaishnavas from Bengal, as Srila Prabhupada explains in some Chaitanya-charitamrita purports. But the broad vision of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, and Srila Prabhupada have, as we see in the NoD quotation above, broadened that definition. And I've already answered your last question. There's something about the tone of these posts that suggests you may have some agenda in asking all these questions. And, since I don't like to respond to anonymous posts, unless they're clearly straightforward, I'll let someone else deal with yours.

 

 

I think (my own opinion), that everybody is trying to overcomplecate it. Gaudiya Vaishava means a follower of Gauranga Mahaprabhu (who came in this Age of Kali). Previous to this they would have been called Vaishnava in another name.

 

The Guest asked 'Were the Vraja gopis "Gaudiya Vaishnavas"?

 

..many Gopis came 500 years ago in Gauranga pastimes. So they are Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

 

(forgive me if I made a sastric mistake somewhere, devotees can correct me).

[Kulapavana 0]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Mystery Guest

I am asking for the devotees to please present references from Srila Prabhupada in his books and lectures etc. where he describes ISKCON as being Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

what is your point? after all this is a noumenal world, the world of names. what are you trying to prove or disprove? there are many groups that describe themselves as Gaudiya Vaishnavas and some do not see eye to eye on quite a few relevant points in the philosophy. Prabhupada used the broadest term when naming his society, but now many of his followers want to narrow it down as much as possible. these divisions do not help his mission nor do they help his disciples. Prabhupada set out to hunt the rhinos, but many of his disciples are happy with catching mice...

 

if you are not generous to others you are only depreciating yourself.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Prabhupada used the broadest term when naming his society, but now many of his followers want to narrow it down as much as possible. these divisions do not help his mission nor do they help his disciples.

 

 

Well, this is exactly my point.

Was ISKCON really broader in scope than Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

 

After all, there are many devotees in Krishna consciousness who no not come to the very high standard of being "Gaudiya Vaishnava".

Being a genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava is not a cheap thing.

It is a very exalted position.

In fact, one wopuld have to have an extremely high estimation of himself if he considers himself a genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava.

 

Many devotees are pursuing the ideal of becoming a Gaudiya Vaishnava, but many of them are really not there yet.

 

Being an admirer or a student of a Gaudiya Vaishnava does not necessarily qualify one as a Gaudiya Vaishnava.

 

Did Srila Prabhupada possibly think that he would be making many devotees who would not really come up to the high standard of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

 

Is a devotee who is dressed-up in a suit, wearing a wig and selling books at the airport a "Gaudiya Vaishnava"?

 

Does Gaudiya Vaishnavism have a culture, a style or a tradition that ISKCON in many ways did not maintain?

 

If ISKCON does not strictly maintain the traditions and practices of the Gaudiya Vaishnavas, then can ISKCON truly be said to be a Gaudiya Vaishnava institution?

 

Again, I just like to say that anyone who stands up and says "I am a Gaudiya Vaishnava" is making a might great claim.

 

ISKCON might be inspired by Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but is it truly Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the pure form?

[Guest guest]

Srila Prabhupada was a genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava.

 

As far as all the devotees around the world who have taken to chanting Hare Krishna, do they all really qualify as "Gaudiya Vaishnava"?

 

Must they really become "Gaudiya Vaishnavas" to get the benefit of chanting the Holy Name of the Lord Krishna?

 

Can't they be some sort of devotee without being on the level of Gaudiya Vaishnava?

 

The classic Gaudiya Vaishnavas like Rupa and Sanatan are far beyond ALL of us, is it really fair to call ourselves Gaudiya Vaishnavas in the same league as Rupa and Sanatan?

 

Being a Gaudiya Vaishnava in truth is mighty tall order.

 

Being a Gaudiya Vaishnava in name only is for the most part a fraud.

 

Maybe "Hare Krishna devotee" would be a better description?

[Guest guest]

 

The devotees of Orissa are called Udiyas, the devotees of Bengal are called Gaudiyas, and the devotees of southern India are known as Dravida devotees.

Adi 1 19 purport

 

so, according to this, all the followers of Mahaprabhu are not necessarily Gaudiyas.

 

Thus, maybe devotee from all over the world might not necessarily be Gaudiyas?

[Guest guest]

And. for those who are really ready for something even deeper.

 

 

To distinguish themselves clearly from the tattva-vadi branch of Madhva's descendants, the Vaisnavas of Bengal prefer to call themselves Gaudiya Vaisnavas. Sri Madhva Acarya is also known as Sri Gauda-purnananda, and therefore the name Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya is quite suitable for the disciplic succession of the Gaudiya Vaisnavas.

Adi 1 19 purport

 

As well, the Gaudiya Sampradaya is named for Sri Gauda-purnananda (Madhvacharya), not for it being the sampradaya of those devotees from Gaudadesh.

 

The Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya named after Madhvacharya, is the same sampradaya of the Vaishnavas from Gaudadesha who follow Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

So, maybe the Gaudiya Sampradaya is named for Madhvacharya and not for Gaudadesha?

 

That seems to be what Srila Prabhupada has revealed in this purport.

 

class dismissed....

[stonehearted 0]

 

so, according to this, all the followers of Mahaprabhu are not necessarily Gaudiyas.

 

Thus, maybe devotee from all over the world might not necessarily be Gaudiyas?

Maybe, unless you missed this Nectar of Devotion quotation: "It is on the basis of his position that anyone can now become a Gaudiya Vaisnava, from any part of the world or any part of the universe. . . ."

[Guest guest]

Gaudiya Vaisnavas consider Madvacharya to have been an incarnation of Krsna's Breath. Otherwise known as Mukya-Prana or Lord Vayu. Madvacharya himself claims this of his stature using the Rg Veda as evidence.

 

The word Gauda refers to that which is prepared from sugar.

Also "Sugar country" when refering to the district of Gaur, the central part of Bengal extending from Vanga to the borders of Orissa.

 

Purna means full filled abundant and complete.

Purnananda means full of bliss.

 

Thus we have 2 derivative reasons to refer to our Vaisnava Sampradaya as the Gaudiya Madhva Sampradaya.

 

The birth place of Sri Gauranga in Sri Gauda-desh, the country of sweetness and the Indomitable spirit of the Bliss-full Sri Madhvacarya who blissfully defeated the mayavada spirits of nirvisesa and sunyavada, paving the way for his worshippable Lord's advent.

 

Hare Krsna

[Kulapavana 0]

 

Well, this is exactly my point.

Was ISKCON really broader in scope than Gaudiya Vaishnavism?

 

After all, there are many devotees in Krishna consciousness who no not come to the very high standard of being "Gaudiya Vaishnava".

Being a genuine Gaudiya Vaishnava is not a cheap thing.

It is a very exalted position...

 

one can say that being a genuine devotee of Lord Krishna is not cheap, period. some Iskcon devotees are very elevated, some are not. the same goes for any other religious group, Gaudiya or Sri Vaishnava.

 

transplanting such elevated spirituality as GV into the West required some changes and transformations of the tradition - needed at least initially. also, newcomers need much time to become fully absorbed in the real essence of Gaudiya Vaishnavism so you should be patient with us.

[Guest guest]

Thus a sincere and honest person who recognizes their position as not yet on the highest platform will consider themselves no more than a disciple of a Vaisnava.

 

There are signs and symptoms given in the scriptures in order for aspirants and disciples to refer to and apply to anyone CLAIMING to be a Vaisnava.

 

When satisfied that such a person meets the scriiptural qualifications of what a Vaisnava is, it should then be considered that they are saying so not out of pride born of false ego's need for fame and followers, but due to empowerment by the Lord to preach as Pure Acharya.

 

This makes it easier to tell who is a Spiritual Master who is potent to offer service to the Original Gaudiya Vaisnava, Sri Gauranga, and thus perfectly continue that Sampradaya.

 

Who is striving to humbly serve such a pure representative of the Sampradaya.

 

And who is attempting to gather fame and fortune in the name of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

 

Hare Krsna

[Yogkriya 0]

Hmmm.... this is interesting isn't it? SPP's Iskcon is Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya Sampradaya lineage. An Unbroken lineage coming right from Lord Brahma. That's why it has authority. It is considered "Vedic", that's why it has authority. But I was wondering what was left of the Brahma in it, when it doesn't even agree with Madhavacharya?!! And then Iskcon differs with the Gaudiya Math, its initial cradle too. This lineage seems broken and diverted. I'll be glad to be wrong on this. The Vedic sadhnas and sadhna methods were of course different.

 

Many changes are made constantly. Letting alone the changes made after Sri Chaitanya. And the changes made in the original Vedic Mahamantra from Hare Rama first to Hare Krishna by Chaitanya himdself. And how much of the original Vedas are actually accepted or not accepted under the classification that many are meant for lower category people or tamsic (Shiva scriptures for example). Then I hear that most Vedas are lost anyways.. and then I hear that classification of scriptures is not important. But Iskcon propagateds this classification anyways, claiming Bhagwatam to be all and all of all Vedas. And then I read SPP saying "change is Rascal"!!

So guys, the more I read and learn, the more confusing it becomes. In other words, there are a lot of double standards, even while using the Hindu word in its policies. Also, if Chaitanya is Krishna himself, how can he remain in separation mood from his own self?

Some questions eh.. ?

When I talk to GBC members, and bring concerns on what other devotees say, the Gurus say many devotees may not be well imformed. So they try to give a reasonable answer.

So, I would really appreciate some Maharaj to explain this to dissolve the confusion, as these are genuine questions.

 

Om Namah Shivaya!!

 

 

 

Madhva Gaudiya etc. The question is though what the Madhva part of the sampradaya is. Getting initiation into for example ISKCON, you receive Hare Krishna mantra, guru mantras, kama-gayatri and Gopala mantra, etc. But none of those mantras are part of the initiation in the line of Madhva. The teachings are not the same either, so it is clearly not a branch of the Madhva line - different teachings and different mantras.

Madhvas don´t accept that Krishna Chaitanya is an avatara either.

[Guest guest]

Jaya Shiva Shambu

 

All glories to the Greatest of Vaisnavas.

 

Dear Yogakriya,

 

It is understandable that you see so many apparent contradictions.

 

There are many people who for lack of healthy human attention, purport and proclaim the absolute truth, backing it up with many powerful truisms, yet since they are not doing so for the right reasons, they always add some twist and resort to citing some esoteric instruction from an Acharya who was facing a situation 1000 years ago that knows no resemblance to our own today.

 

That is why, to simplify things for the sincere seeker, the Lord sends a representative who can relate the essence of all the various instructions and methods used by the masters of the past, in a contemporary way so we can grasp it easily if we wish.

 

In this vein, here are two statements by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada which cut to the thick and deprive the bloviators of their platform of obfuscation and jugglery.

 

This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acharya, immediate next acharya."

(Srila Prabhupada lecture December 8th, 1973)

 

"As already stated, Brahmaa is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam is coming down by disciplic succession, and in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam one should approach the CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service." (Bhag. 2.9.7)

 

So look to the current link. The current acharya. He was here specifically for you in your situation. Once you have heard from him, if you so desire, you can read the authors of the past with the right angle of vision so as not to be confused.

 

The most important thing while reading is to act on any instructions given. Otherwise you will not truly imbibe the essence of what is written.

 

"There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words." (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, Spiritual Master of AC Bhaktivedanta swami)

 

And just in case anyone trys to hoodwink you into believing that you cannot understand the lucidly conveyed words of the Acharya without someone else interpreting what they mean for you by quoting this phrase.

 

"The personal service of the pure devotee is essential for understanding the spiritual meaning of the words "

 

Just remember what Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had to say as to what consititutes persona service to him.

 

"Finally, Sri Srila Prabhupada gave his blessings openly to all present as well as to those who were not present and advised them all to perform devotional service to the Supreme Lord and the service of pure devotees, specially by the method of propagation of his divine literatures."

 

So what does Srila Prabhupada not only consider to be performing devotional service to Both the Supreme Lord AND Pure devotees (like himself), but is ESPECIALLY advised or in other words a very good and effective type of service?

 

Pass out his Books.

 

And you wouldn't pass out his book unless you could read and understand it yourself would you?

 

"These books I have recorded and chanted, and they are transcribed. It is spoken kirtanas. So book distribution is also chanting. These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing. Book distribution must not be neglected."

 

(S.P.L. to Rupanuga dasa, 19th October, 1974)

 

I hope this helps.

 

Hare Krsna

[Yogkriya 0]

All glories to Lord SadaShiva and Shri Hari - the greatest of all Shaivas!!

Shri Vaikuntha Dham ki Jai!

All glories to Paramhansa Swami Nikhileshwarananda!!

 

 

Dear divine soul Gopeshwara dasa,

 

Please accept my humble obeisances!!

 

Finally I could get a decent reply from someone. I don't know if you are a swami or not, but you are mature and restrained.

 

I have found your post, well balanced, (even diplomatic) and non-angry while explaining at the same time your position on your sampradaya lineage and acharya instruction. There is a sincere effort on your part to serve your Guru/sampradaya and clear your position.

 

Whatever you said on the acharya instruction-giving and service are general concepts and are understood well within Hinduism. These are not an only Iskcon thing but general Sanatana Dharma values. Lord Rama took instructions from the great sage Vishwamitra and acted accordingly. And such common values are what makes you a part and parcel of other lineages too. However, there are differences, which are inevitable due to time, circumstances, preferences etc. All this is well understood.

What is the most disturbing factor however in this stream, is not presenting / rewriting the original Vedic literature according to Gaudiya/Iskcon "mood", but the desparate effort to prove that every other school is lower and not as good as yours. This is a problem.

It is a religious-political problem. It is not a spiritual problem. Religions involve a part of politics in them that defines and dictates their social and internal policy agendas.

 

It is a problem because it is not a unifying policy. Hinduism has a unifying policy. And that's why Iskcon is not complete Sanatana Dharma, but a part of it of course. It is radical and separating. Hinduism has the policy of keeping all the practices together. This is why it has survided for so long. 900 years of Islamic rule and 200 years of British rule couldn't dissolve it. Iskcon's policy separates every ther practice away and puts itself on top. It is fine to do that within itself. It is the right of every individual and sampradaya to praise itself, follow the instructions of its acharyas, and evolve accordingly. But when it spills itself over other schools of thoughts, that may be as accomplished and good, and belittles all other thoughts and philosophies in an effort to perch itself higher, then this is a problem. Please understand this. If you keep chanting and practicing spiritual life, people would be attracted to you of their own. If you go to others and tell them that Shiva is a mere demi-God etc. then people get hurt and so on. There are a lot of deviations in the gaudiya/Iskcon published new scriptures from the original Vedic scriptures. These are of religious nature. But spiritually speaking, I do understand the essence of it. But it is a problem for people who are preached to. They get "anti Hindu", "Shiva belittelingYogis belitteling" instructions. Not the true picture. Eh? This picture is in one mood only. Sanatana Dharma has many moods and all are true!! One may say that only his mood is true. You have the right to believe that only feeling separation from Krishna is the true way. This is one way and can lead to your attaining his lotus feet and mercy. This is one type of sadhna. And is correct. But there are other types of sadhnas too and you can't prove them wrong. The result may be different or come in a different way. No problem. Not everybody wants to walk the cows in Vrindavana. Some may chose to battle in Kurukshetra too.

 

Anyways, I just said a few general things without purports etc. As your post is general in nature. It doesn't address direct answers to any questions.

 

With more time at hand, I will explain with more and direct details a bit later. There are issues that are not being addressed here. And no Guru comes forward to do that either. They should dispel any myths as they are the flag bearers of the sampradaya. They just sly and slip away!! But what could be better than having it from the leaders of the force?

 

Meanwhile, I thank you again for your good letter/post and hope your day/night is fruitful with the benevolence of your Guru Srila Prabhupada and ever merciful Lord Shri Krishna!!

 

Jai Gurudev!!

Om Namah Shivaya!!

 

YogKriya.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jaya Shiva Shambu

 

All glories to the Greatest of Vaisnavas.

 

Dear Yogakriya,

 

It is understandable that you see so many apparent contradictions.

 

There are many people who for lack of healthy human attention, purport and proclaim the absolute truth, backing it up with many powerful truisms, yet since they are not doing so for the right reasons, they always add some twist and resort to citing some esoteric instruction from an Acharya who was facing a situation 1000 years ago that knows no resemblance to our own today.

 

That is why, to simplify things for the sincere seeker, the Lord sends a representative who can relate the essence of all the various instructions and methods used by the masters of the past, in a contemporary way so we can grasp it easily if we wish.

 

In this vein, here are two statements by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada which cut to the thick and deprive the bloviators of their platform of obfuscation and jugglery.

 

This is called parampara system. Suppose I have heard something from my spiritual master, so I speak to you the same thing. So this is parampara system. You cannot imagine what my spiritual master said. Or even if you read some books, you cannot understand unless you understand it from me. This is called parampara system. You cannot jump over to the superior guru, neglecting the next acharya, immediate next acharya."

(Srila Prabhupada lecture December 8th, 1973)

 

"As already stated, Brahmaa is the original spiritual master for the universe, and since he was initiated by the Lord Himself, the message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam is coming down by disciplic succession, and in order to receive the real message of Srimad-Bhaagavatam one should approach the CURRENT LINK, or spiritual master, in the chain of disciplic succession. After being initiated by the proper spiritual master in that chain of succession, one should engage himself in the discharge of tapasya in the execution of devotional service." (Bhag. 2.9.7)

 

So look to the current link. The current acharya. He was here specifically for you in your situation. Once you have heard from him, if you so desire, you can read the authors of the past with the right angle of vision so as not to be confused.

 

The most important thing while reading is to act on any instructions given. Otherwise you will not truly imbibe the essence of what is written.

 

"There are persons who have got by heart almost everything that he wrote without being able to catch the least particle of his meaning. Such study cannot benefit those who are not prepared to act up to the instructions lucidly conveyed by his words." (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, Spiritual Master of AC Bhaktivedanta swami)

 

And just in case anyone trys to hoodwink you into believing that you cannot understand the lucidly conveyed words of the Acharya without someone else interpreting what they mean for you by quoting this phrase.

 

"The personal service of the pure devotee is essential for understanding the spiritual meaning of the words "

 

Just remember what Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had to say as to what consititutes persona service to him.

 

"Finally, Sri Srila Prabhupada gave his blessings openly to all present as well as to those who were not present and advised them all to perform devotional service to the Supreme Lord and the service of pure devotees, specially by the method of propagation of his divine literatures."

 

So what does Srila Prabhupada not only consider to be performing devotional service to Both the Supreme Lord AND Pure devotees (like himself), but is ESPECIALLY advised or in other words a very good and effective type of service?

 

Pass out his Books.

 

And you wouldn't pass out his book unless you could read and understand it yourself would you?

 

"These books I have recorded and chanted, and they are transcribed. It is spoken kirtanas. So book distribution is also chanting. These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing. Book distribution must not be neglected."

 

(S.P.L. to Rupanuga dasa, 19th October, 1974)

 

I hope this helps.

 

Hare Krsna

[Guest guest]

Dandavat Pranams Yogakriya.

 

All Glories to Sri Bhagavan and vaisnavas everywhere.

 

Thank you for your kind words. It is nice to be able to talk with sincere people so it brings out the placid and reserved side of me. If you look elsewhere on this forum and see someone who loses all restraint and excoriates those he believes need it, that was probably me as well.

 

To your point.

 

And that's why Iskcon is not complete Sanatana Dharma, but a part of it of course. It is radical and separating. Hinduism has the policy of keeping all the practices together.

 

What you speak of here is a result of you seeing the fruits of the "Leadership" of Iskcon apparently being taken over by Fanatic sectarians whose agenda was pure self-aggrandizement.

 

However, there still exists in the hearts of some, and I would like to think that includes myself, the spirit of Iskcon. That spirit is kept alive, and its flame tended by small handfuls of us scattered around the globe mostly in exile. There are some very nice examples of even more above ground success such as the ISKCON Bangalore temple community, whose members have been very strict to follow the instructions of their Acharya, and provide a blissful situation for anyone who seeks to understand the mood of the Gaudiyas, free of sectarian concerns.

 

All of the problems you so aptly describe erupt in any group under any flag when the instructions of the Acharya are not follwed truly.

 

So concerning your original question and concern,

 

"SPP's Iskcon is Brahma-Madhava-Gaudiya Sampradaya lineage. An Unbroken lineage coming right from Lord Brahma. That's why it has authority. It is considered "Vedic", that's why it has authority. But I was wondering what was left of the Brahma in it, when it doesn't even agree with Madhavacharya?!! And then Iskcon differs with the Gaudiya Math, its initial cradle too. This lineage seems broken and diverted."

 

My answer to you may have seemed general, but it was actually very specifically tailored to you in the following way.

 

My quotes show that in order to understand how the "Brahma" and the "Madhva" exist and are reconciled withing the Gaudiya aspect of the Sampradaya is to take shelter of the instructions of the Acharya of Iskcon.

 

Then he would help you see everything you needed to see, if that is what you truly wanted.

 

Otherwise mostly what you are seeing is the result of people who read his books but did not follow the instructions therein. And then they went on to present themselves as an authority on Gaudiya Siddhanta. And thus went on to make erroneous statements based on their selfish speculations, and made it SEEM like Gaudiyas are not reconciled with Madhvacharya and Brahma and everyone else in the world for that matter.

 

So as a rule, whenever you see someone presenting such sectarian and confused nonsense, you can know they did not get the essence.

 

And if you are personally interested in knowing for yourself how the Gaudiya teachings through the real ISKCON draw the essence of Love of God from all the past acharya's in that lineage, now you know what you can do about it for your satisfaction.

 

Be Blessed on your Journey Prabhu.

 

y.s.

 

Mark