Mahaprabhu as Universial Guru

[theist 1]

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>No need to mimic Christianity or Ramakrishna mission. Gaudiya Vaishnavism has it's central figure in Mahaprabhu whose lila is called acharya lila. We also consider Rupa Goswami to be our leader under whom we all serve and thus we are called Rupanugas. We don't need man made systems or to vote anyone into any position. Quote from Audarya-lila</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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Please reference my signature quote below.

 

I would love to hear this point expanded upon. Mahaprabhu as Universial Guru.

 

 

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"If a devotee accepts Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the universal guru and Lord Jagannatha as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna, he is benefited by the combined mercy of Krsna and guru." - Madhya 13.18 purport

[theist 1]

 

Lord Caitanya is our Samasti Guru, everybody else is a vyasti guru in our sampradaya.

 

Kulapavana, would you expand on this. What exactly is a Samasti Guru and what is a vyasti guru? I have read the terms but sanskrit words don't stay in my brain for very long.

 

Thanks soul

[Kulapavana 0]

As such, before the creation or manifestation of the material cosmic world, the Lord exists as total energy (maha-samasti), and thus desiring Himself to be diffused to many, He expands Himself further into multitotal energy (samasti). From the multitotal energy He further expands Himself into individuals in three dimensions, namely adhyatmic, adhidaivic and adhibhautic, as explained before (vyasti). As such, the whole creation and the creative energies are nondifferent and different simultaneously. Because everything is an emanation from Him (the Maha-Visnu or Maha-samasti), nothing of the cosmic energies is different from Him; but all such expanded energies have specific functions and display as designed by the Lord, and therefore they are simultaneously different from the Lord. The living entities are also similar energy (marginal potency) of the Lord, and thus they are simultaneously one with and different from Him.

SB 2.10.13 Purport

(Bhakti Sandarbha, Paragraph 286)

tathA pITha-pUjAyAM bhagavad-dhAme zrI-guru-pAdukA-pUjanam evaM saGgacchate | yathA ya eva bhagavAn atra vyaSTi-rUpatayA bhaktAvatAratvena zrI-guru-rUpo vartate, sa eva tatra samaSTi-rUpatayA sva-vAma-pradeze sAkSAd-avatAratvenApi tad-rUpo vartata iti

"The worship of the Pitha in Bhagavan’s abode is conducted together with the worship of Sri Guru’s shoes. As Bhagavan assumes a localized form (vyasti-rupa) in His descent as Sri Guru in the form of a devotee, this form also appears as a direct descent on the left side of His collective form (samasti-rupa)."

[Kulapavana 0]

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: "By the special will of Krsna, gurudeva is a delegated power. If we look closely within the spiritual master, we will see the delegation of Krsna, and accordingly, we should accept him in that way. The spiritual master is a devotee of Krsna, and at the same time, the inspiration of Krsna is within him. These are the two aspects of gurudeva. He has his aspect as a Vaisnava, and the inspired side of the Vaisnava is the guru. On a fast day like Ekadasi, he himself does not take any grains. He conducts himself as a Vaisnava, but his disciples offer grains to the picture of their guru on the altar. The disciples offer their spiritual master grains even on a fast day.

 

The disciple is concerned with the delegation of the Lord, the, guru's inner self, his inspired side. The inspired side of a Vaisnava is acarya, or, guru. The disciple marks only the special, inspired portion within the guru. He is more concerned with that part of his character. But gurudeva himself generally poses as a Vaisnava. So, his dealings towards his disciples and his dealings with other Vaisnavas will be different. This is acintya-bhedabheda, inconceivable unity in diversity."

 

Tripurari Maharaja: "The initiating guru is the vyasti (microcosmic) representation of guru, and in the Gaudiya sampradaya, Gaura-Nityananda are the samasti (macrocosmic) representation of guru. If the vyasti guru is spiritually situated in general but not fully realized, the samasti guru can make up for such a guru's minor shortcoming, if need be. This is the purport of the famous statement of Caitanaya-caritamrta, aham vedmi sukam vedi vyaso veti na veti va, "I (Siva) know the meaning of the Bhagavata, Sukadeva knows it as well, whereas Vyasa may or may not know it." In other words, it is possible that, by the grace of the samasti guru, insight may come down through the vyasti guru to the disciple that the vyasti guru himself is not fully realized. Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaja discusses this principle in his reply to a question that is similar to yours:

<DIR>Devotee: Will the disciple of a madhyama-adhikari guru achieve the same result as a disciple of an uttama-adhikari guru?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Of course. If we are sincere, the connection of guru we have by the arrangement of the Absolute, that madhyama-adhikari guru, will give instruction rightly. And also he may return and I can have justice. In one birth I may meet one guru and in another birth I may meet another guru. But substantial measurement will all be the same, only some difference in form. Even in this life also after getting some instructions from a particular guru I may get another siksa guru, where I can learn more. That may not be impossible because guru is one, acarya mam vijaniyam. Our sincerity and God's grace, that is one and the same thing."

</DIR>

[Kulapavana 0]

In other words: there is no need to invent a prominent link philosophy, or ritvik philosophy to reign in the misrepresentation of our Parampara by individual gurus - THE PROPER PHILOSOPHY IS ALREADY THERE!

[bija 0]

 

Devotee: Will the disciple of a madhyama-adhikari guru achieve the same result as a disciple of an uttama-adhikari guru?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: Of course. If we are sincere, the connection of guru we have by the arrangement of the Absolute, that madhyama-adhikari guru, will give instruction rightly. And also he may return and I can have justice. In one birth I may meet one guru and in another birth I may meet another guru. But substantial measurement will all be the same, only some difference in form. Even in this life also after getting some instructions from a particular guru I may get another siksa guru, where I can learn more. That may not be impossible because guru is one, acarya mam vijaniyam. Our sincerity and God's grace, that is one and the same thing."

Each time Srila Sridhara Maharaja's words grace us on this forum, I begin to realize more and more why AC Bhaktivedanta, out of love for his young disciples, recommended this Saint. The modern Gaudiya Vaisnava movement has been greatly blessed by his words, and he surely is Bhakti Rakshaka (Guardian of Devotion).

[theist 1]

Thanks Kulapavana, that was very helpful. Macrocosmic and microcosmic.

 

Yes there is no need to try to make up for a lack that doesn't exist. The only lack is our sincerity.