Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

ANYONE WHO WORSHIPS A MAN AS GOD IS TRUELY LOST!

Swaminayaran is NOT a God. People have falsly elevated him and worshiped him as a God. He was a guru and should be given the respect of one, but not that of God.

 

 

 

for the people who currently do not believe that Swaminarayan is bhagwan, or that Pramukh Swami Maharaj is a true guru, i recommend that you go and visit Pramukh Swami Maharaj in India and just by watching one of his pujas in the morning, you will realise he is god himself.

 

In addition to this, just take a step back that look at Shri Swaminarayan Bhagwan's teachings in his life. Everything that he preached was pure and divine. he taught the devotees to repect other religions, and not cause anyone any harm whatsoever.

 

last point, all avatars came down onto earth for a purpose [usually to kill something or someone]; but the purpose of Lord Swaminarayan's incarnation on the Earth was to establish Bhakti, Gnayan, Vairagya, and Dharma which in turn releases our souls from the cycles of births and deaths.

 

my advice is dont waste this human lifeform, you will realise when you pass away who the true God really is. however, then it is too late. my recommendation is to visit Guru Hari Pramukh Swami Maharaj (who is currently in India) and at least watch him in his puja. If you get the chance, ask to see him personally and you life will change.

 

there are about 700-800 santos in the BAPS Swaminaryan Sanstha as well as countless haribhaktos who each of them aspire to be like Pramukh Swami Maharaj. All of these people can't worship a "bogus" guru can they? Many of the Santos are trained doctors, accountants, engineers etc. however, they have decided to give up their worldly life as they knew it to become a sandhu, live with God, and reach Akshardham [heaven]. IF BAPS was a moneymaking organisation, would Pramukh Swami Maharaj tell them to stay as doctors and ask them for their money?

 

this post is just to advise you about BAPS, not to pursuade you that BAPS is the true religion; you will realise that in time (whether in this life, or the next life, or the next life etc.)

 

Jai Swaminaryan

[Guest guest]

In my reading of this post, the claimants of the divinity of Swaminarayan have offered some substantiation of the claim (some is quality evidence, most is marginal and sometimes poorly thought-out) that he is divine and that the current Guru, Pramukh Swami Maharaj, is divine as well.

 

As of yet, those opposing the divinity, however, have yet to offer anything more than brash attacks on the viewpoints of others stating, in effect, nothing more than "you are wrong because I said so." This is not valid argumentation. To the previous post by "Guest" regarding Swaminarayan as a Man - please provide some evidence or substantiation of this claim as it strikes at the heart of the issue. I am interested in seeing some substantiation of the claims of the other detractors as well.

 

It also seems there are multiple sub-sects of Swaminarayan, and they seem to be in conflict on this forum. I find it disturbing that those opposing this Pramukh Swami are so aggressive in their rhetoric, especially since the responses of those supporting this Swami are notably calmer and more thought out. The post on 09-07-06 at 6:07 PM makes a fair request for scriptural evidence on the veracity of the pro-BAPS argumentation, however, it claims that the "truth" lies in these two other organizations, but does not provide any evidence, besides the highly opinionated claim that BAPS (Pramukh Swami's Group) is "vimookh" (which I understand as 'ex-communicated' or 'outcaste').

 

I would like to see some proper substantiation of the claims that each make. Pro-BAPS views need to provide more cohesive support, and Pro-Amdavad/Vadtal views need to cease the aggressive rhetoric and provide some substantiation of its own in order to be taken seriously.

[Guest guest]

 

It also seems there are multiple sub-sects of Swaminarayan, and they seem to be in conflict on this forum. I find it disturbing that those opposing this Pramukh Swami are so aggressive in their rhetoric, especially since the responses of those supporting this Swami are notably calmer and more thought out. The post on 09-07-06 at 6:07 PM makes a fair request for scriptural evidence on the veracity of the pro-BAPS argumentation, however, it claims that the "truth" lies in these two other organizations, but does not provide any evidence, besides the highly opinionated claim that BAPS (Pramukh Swami's Group) is "vimookh" (which I understand as 'ex-communicated' or 'outcaste').

 

I would like to see some proper substantiation of the claims that each make. Pro-BAPS views need to provide more cohesive support, and Pro-Amdavad/Vadtal views need to cease the aggressive rhetoric and provide some substantiation of its own in order to be taken seriously.

 

Dear guest,

 

You stated that "It also seems there are multiple sub-sects of Swaminarayan, and they seem to be in conflict on this forum." From reading you post it seems you are a follower of BAPS, assuming this is true i think you know that there a various splits.

 

In regards to to your post it seems highly biased. Another guest has posted the claims to what their views are in regards to being Pro Amdavad/Vadtal and anti-BAPS(Note - the person has also asked questions which no BAPS follower has replied to as of yet), let me paste the post -

 

BAPS devotees comment - "They also saw another saint called Gunatitanand swami who is AKSHAR. I cannot explain who akshar is, find out. He made many mandirs such as the one in Amdhavad. He is truly parmatma. He lived till the age of 40 and then a age of gurus carried on.

 

This is the like:

 

Sahajanand Swami Maharaj

Gunatitanand Swami Maharaj

Bhagatji Maharaj

Shastriji Maharaj (he started BAPS after being harrased at Vartal)

Yoghiji Maharaj

Pramukh Swami Maharaj who is the present guru"

 

 

 

Reply - "You call Gunatianand Swami Akshar yet you do not know what it means? You people make me laugh. Where does it state in any scripture of the swaminarayan sampradaya that Gunatitanand Swami is Akshar? Can you explain why mandirs such as amdavad created by Lord Swaminarayan are not under control of BAPS?

 

Also this lineage you have come up with, could we have some scriptural reference to when Lord Swaminarayan has stated that Tyagi(saints) will be Spiritual successors. As Shikshapatri, Vachanamrut and Satsangi Jeevan the 3 main Shastras of the Uddhav Sampradaya state Acharyas - Dharmakul to be present day Gurus and Spiritual Successors of the Swaminarayan Sampradaya. I am confused should i believe Pramukh Swami(who himself believes in Lord Swaminarayan - that these saints are spiritual successors, yet not mentioned anywhere in scriptures) or should i beleive Lord Swaminarayans words in the scriptures (which advocate Acharyas of Dharmakul to be true spiritual successors)

 

It is a tricky one, NOT!

 

Read scriptures of your own Ishtadev and understand the truth, instead blindly following a flawed teaching without no clear knowledge of it!

 

Follow the Sampradaya set up by your Ishtadev which is UDDHAV SAMPRADAY - Under Shree Narnarayan Dev Amdavad and Shree Laxminarayan Dev Vadtal as this is where truth lies and not with BAPS(who are VIMOOKH)"

 

To me the person who has replied has not fully justified his points as scriptural reference has not been pointed out, however no-one has challenged his views or asked questions upon his post as of yet.

 

Another point you make - "I find it disturbing that those opposing this Pramukh Swami are so aggressive in their rhetoric, especially since the responses of those supporting this Swami are notably calmer and more thought out."

 

I do not see aggression, i would refer to it as passion. In which way did you come to the conclusion that those opposing pramukh swami are aggressive and those who are supporting are calmer?? Perhaps a few examples would help.

 

If you feel the Pro Amdavad/Vadtal are false then challenge them, as they are calling your group Vimookh. Prove that you are not a Vimookh by answering back to the post i have pasted into my own post.

[Guest guest]

I want to convert to the BAPS Swaminarayan faith, what is the process for that?

 

jai swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

There isn't really a sense of "converting" to the faith of Swaminarayan. To join BAPS's satsang, locate a nearby center by visiting www(dot)swaminarayan(dot)org (sorry, site does not allow me to post a website link) and visit it! If you like what you see and hear, talk to some of the people there (the one's wearing tilak-chandlo on their forehead - the orange 'U' with the round red mark in the center - are your best bet). And keep visiting! Most centers will have their spiritual discourses on Sunday afternoon. You can call ahead, too, to find out more.

 

If you're looking for a ritual-type initiation of sorts, you can ask the head priest (or if there is a sadhu present, then him) to give you the Panch Vartman give you a kanthi (double-stranded wooden-beaded necklace), and teach you the Swaminarayan Mantra (that's easy - it's 'Swaminarayan').

 

Becoming Swaminarayan, however, is really an inner transformation. It's an internal desire to follow the teachings of Swaminarayan and the Guru with the faith that they will lead you to moksha, or liberation.

 

I wish you all the best, and I hope you find peace and happiness in your journey.

 

Jai Swaminarayan.

[Bintang1 0]

I Have Found Lord Rama Incarnation On Earth I Post His Photo I Am So Happy I Met Him Even If He Very Discreat. This Is Lord Rama Alive On Earth Very Easy To Recegnise Which One Of The Three He Is.

[Guest guest]

Jayswaminarayan

 

To those ignorant BAP's satsangi's ... I have to say I feel no less than pity at the state of your ignorance. First and foremost, I want you to read the REAL shikshapatri and vachanamrut... rather than the Pramukh version of it. Did you know the BAPS sanstha has changed the original text of what Bhagwan has written?

 

There are only TWO genuine heirs to the shree swaminarayan gadi...and they are the BLOOD relatives of Bhagwan himself. He adopted the children of his two brothers and made them the official guru's of this gadi. Ahemdabad and Vaadtal.

 

The mandirs that BAPS have created, are simply a monopoly of mandirs built for power. It clearly states in the shikshaptri, that any idol of mine in a mandir MUST be blessed by the presence of either two gadi's that he has installed. That being true...the BAPS mandirs amount to no more than rich temples with no religious significance to our lord...shree swaminarayan. God has simply stated I will always live within the idols of a shrine, the holy scriptures and the gadi. So how can he live within something that has been created without his consent? Or without the consent of the present Gadi holders?

 

The orginal gadi does not travel the world and educate people of hinduism in order to gain powerful credentials for itself (BAPS does). It humbly puts bhagwan and his teachings first. Never will you see a photo of our guru next to an idol of god. That is something I believe that Pramukh swami does.

 

If you wish to call yourself a swaminarayan satsangi...do your homework and study the REAL history of shree Sahajanand, rather than falling for the ignorance that BAPS are promoting.

 

I'm a proud follower of Swaminarayan and his true teachings... my family all have been! We would not have contempt towards your philosophy on our religion if it was to be of the truth. I have to speak up, before you feed the mind of an indifferent student.

 

God bless

[logic 0]

 

for the people who currently do not believe that Swaminarayan is bhagwan, or that Pramukh Swami Maharaj is a true guru, i recommend that you go and visit Pramukh Swami Maharaj in India and just by watching one of his pujas in the morning, you will realise he is god himself.

 

In addition to this, just take a step back that look at Shri Swaminarayan Bhagwan's teachings in his life. Everything that he preached was pure and divine. he taught the devotees to repect other religions, and not cause anyone any harm whatsoever.

 

last point, all avatars came down onto earth for a purpose [usually to kill something or someone]; but the purpose of Lord Swaminarayan's incarnation on the Earth was to establish Bhakti, Gnayan, Vairagya, and Dharma which in turn releases our souls from the cycles of births and deaths.

 

my advice is dont waste this human lifeform, you will realise when you pass away who the true God really is. however, then it is too late. my recommendation is to visit Guru Hari Pramukh Swami Maharaj (who is currently in India) and at least watch him in his puja. If you get the chance, ask to see him personally and you life will change.

 

there are about 700-800 santos in the BAPS Swaminaryan Sanstha as well as countless haribhaktos who each of them aspire to be like Pramukh Swami Maharaj. All of these people can't worship a "bogus" guru can they? Many of the Santos are trained doctors, accountants, engineers etc. however, they have decided to give up their worldly life as they knew it to become a sandhu, live with God, and reach Akshardham [heaven]. IF BAPS was a moneymaking organisation, would Pramukh Swami Maharaj tell them to stay as doctors and ask them for their money?

 

this post is just to advise you about BAPS, not to pursuade you that BAPS is the true religion; you will realise that in time (whether in this life, or the next life, or the next life etc.)

 

Jai Swaminaryan

 

 

looser!

[Guest guest]

Jaiswaminarayan

IF that was dedicated to me...I have seen him!

I do not want to entice futher controversy! Though He may be an "extraodinary" human being, I do not regard him as a "true' guru of swaminarayan sanstha. Where ever religion is established, politics soon follows.

 

"IF BAPS was a moneymaking organisation, would Pramukh Swami Maharaj tell them to stay as doctors and ask them for their money?

 

this post is just to advise you about BAPS, not to pursuade you that BAPS is the true religion; you will realise that in time (whether in this life, or the next life, or the next life etc.)"

 

That is quite a weak statement...OSHO converted thousands of educated people into his cult, and many suffered the consequences later.

I'm not comparing your "guru" to OSHO, simply saying just because you have many converting doesn't prove your geuniuity.

 

You may have all the morals in the world...no doubt, just maybe don't understand the truth of your own religion.

 

I suggest you read the genuine shikshapatri...I have never felt more peace than the mandirs that bhagwan HIMSELF has made, and the one in chappiya...the idols that the gadi has installed. The other mandirs are another story.

 

And what's up with the black kanthi? the original kanthi is orange/red not black. What the?

[Guest guest]

I converted also. BAPS Swaminarayan faith is the true path. All you have to do is visit there site and discover god. I am saved.

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

A previous post accuses the "Gadi" followers of being aggressive. The following post called it "passionate." I think the posts that begin with "To those ignorant BAPS..." and the next one that is a long quote of a pro-BAPS post with only one comment, "Looser!" (mispelled, nonetheless), can hardly be described as "passionate." Name-calling is pointless, it doesn't make any viewpoint more or less right, just less credible.

 

I agree with the poster that BAPS posts seem more calm and composed. Never once have pro-BAPS supporters called any other path "ignorant", "vimookh", "looser" or even "wrong". It's little surprise to me that no one seems to convert to the "Gadis" only to BAPS.

[Guest guest]

Jai Swaminarayan.

Can anyone explain the new movement named YDS. Apparently they also believe in Akshar(Gunatitanand Swami) and Purushottam (Sahajanand Swami). They have the same Guru Parampara upto Yogiji Maharaj but not Pramukh Swami. Their prensent Guru is Hari Prasad Swami.

[Ayodhya 0]

It seems Hinduism has more internal problems than I thought.

[flipchip 0]

Can someone provide information about the new BAPS Swaminarayan Mandir in Atlanta, GA?

[Guest guest]

 

Here is a new topic: Swaminarayan

 

please make comments and questions and me and all the other Swaminaryan's will strive to answer them

 

just to say, visit:

 

www . swaminarayan . org

www . akshardham . com

 

As glamourous as it all seems the temples in the pics are all BAPS(Bochasan Akshar Purshottam Santhstha) as are the site adds given by Alpesh.They are regarded as vimukhs within the Swaminarayan orthodox.The reason is that they have diverted from the teachigs and wishes outlayed by Swaminarayan Bhagwan again and again.The murti's u would expect to find in a Swaminarayan mandir are normally 2 or 3 from the following;Radha-Krishna,Laxmi-Narayan,Nar-Narayan,Gopinathji,Siddehshwar Mahadev.

Ganshyam Maharaj(Swaminarayan Bhagwan's child form,Swaminarayan Bhagwan,Hanumanji & Lord Ganesh are always present.

The original true Swaminarayan temples established are in Vadtal,Ghadhara,Ahmedabad,Bhuj,Junagadh & Dholerha all in Gujerat state.

 

Jay Gopinath!

[Guest guest]

 

As glamourous as it all seems the temples in the pics are all BAPS(Bochasan Akshar Purshottam Santhstha) as are the site adds given by Alpesh.They are regarded as vimukhs within the Swaminarayan orthodox.The reason is that they have diverted from the teachigs and wishes outlayed by Swaminarayan Bhagwan again and again.The murti's u would expect to find in a Swaminarayan mandir are normally 2 or 3 from the following;Radha-Krishna,Laxmi-Narayan,Nar-Narayan,Gopinathji,Siddehshwar Mahadev.

Ganshyam Maharaj(Swaminarayan Bhagwan's child form,Swaminarayan Bhagwan,Hanumanji & Lord Ganesh are always present.

The original true Swaminarayan temples established are in Vadtal,Ghadhara,Ahmedabad,Bhuj,Junagadh & Dholerha all in Gujerat state.

 

Jay Gopinath!

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry I am here for the first time by accident and posted the previous and pressed enter by mistake...without saying anything.

 

I actually was looking up something else and came across this website. I was reading all the threads, responses etc and was rather shocked. I am Hindu and follow Swaminarayan's teachings.

 

One thing I have learned which has been beneficial are the teachings in the Vachnamrut P.16 (Pratham 16). The first vivek states:

...Jene sat, asat noh vivek hoi, teh toh potana na avgun jarneh, vicharineh, tyag kareh aneh sant ma athwa koi satsangi ma avgun bhasto hoi toh tene tyag kari deh ane tena jeh gurn tenuj graham kareh....

 

In BASIC terms this means that one should reflect on oneself, find the flaws, know them, think about them and work towards eradicating them. And if one finds flaws in the sadhu or satsangi (devotee) then they should NOT think about them and take their virtues only.

 

I believe this is the essence of His teachings... one should always try to see the virtues of all.

 

A positive attitude creates positive results...

 

I think what is important here is that whatever you believe in you should believe in it whole heartedly.. which means to focus on becoming a better person to attain the happiness prescribed by the scriptures - whoevers it may be.

 

Everything I have read so far seems like the battle of egos and whos right and whos wrong - wake up - these how wars start... no one is better than anyone else... we are all trying to attain something ... its the same things... internal peace and happiness...

[Guest guest]

 

Sorry I am here for the first time by accident and posted the previous and pressed enter by mistake...without saying anything.

 

I actually was looking up something else and came across this website. I was reading all the threads, responses etc and was rather shocked. I am Hindu and follow Swaminarayan's teachings.

 

One thing I have learned which has been beneficial are the teachings in the Vachnamrut P.16 (Pratham 16). The first vivek states:

...Jene sat, asat noh vivek hoi, teh toh potana na avgun jarneh, vicharineh, tyag kareh aneh sant ma athwa koi satsangi ma avgun bhasto hoi toh tene tyag kari deh ane tena jeh gurn tenuj graham kareh....

 

In BASIC terms this means that one should reflect on oneself, find the flaws, know them, think about them and work towards eradicating them. And if one finds flaws in the sadhu or satsangi (devotee) then they should NOT think about them and take their virtues only.

 

I believe this is the essence of His teachings... one should always try to see the virtues of all.

 

A positive attitude creates positive results...

 

I think what is important here is that whatever you believe in you should believe in it whole heartedly.. which means to focus on becoming a better person to attain the happiness prescribed by the scriptures - whoevers it may be.

 

Everything I have read so far seems like the battle of egos and whos right and whos wrong - wake up - these how wars start... no one is better than anyone else... we are all trying to attain something ... its the same things... internal peace and happiness...

 

 

Thats all Good! I totally agree with this.

 

But what about when it concerns Agna and Upasna? Should we not recognise the wrong doings in the sampraday. What about the teachings Swaminarayan Bhagwan taught? What about the principles?

 

I think its all a big test. For the people who are carying out the teachings of the Swaminrayan scriptures fully, this includes the ones the are killing their own inner enemies such as lust ,envy, follow scriptures fully, as well as living under the refuge of the Dharmkul (Dharm vanshi Acharyas and their temples, saints and true original scriptures)-

 

:These are the ones who are fully carrying out their Dharm. Theyre the ones who passed this test. The rest of us will fail either by quarelling, not following Agna correctly, not conquering our iner enemies, going against the rules prescribed in the authentic Swaminarayan scriptures(such as Satsangi Jivan, Sikshapatri, Vachnamrut, Desh Vibhaag No Lekh), failing by following the wrong sort of upasna, carrying out their own sects under the Swaminarayan banner.

 

Also Desh Vibhaag No lekh clearly written by Shatanand Swami in the guidance of Bhagwan Swaminarayan also states clearly what is the foundation of true original Swaminarayan Satsang. Maybe its time that people today took some time out to read it before they blindly decide which of the Swaminarayan sects they should really follow and have faith in. Other scriptures also show everything clearly so what i find hard to understand is why do people ignore what is authentic for the later created?

 

What is true is that we should see avgun in none, and only goodness in everyone. Like Bhagwan Dattatrey take the goodness of all. But what is also important is that when it comes to upasna and agna we should stay vigilant in recognising wrong and right and follow what is right and teach others to do teh same as well.

 

Jay Shri Krishna

[Guest guest]

 

Thats all Good! I totally agree with this.

 

But what about when it concerns Agna and Upasna? Should we not recognise the wrong doings in the sampraday. What about the teachings Swaminarayan Bhagwan taught? What about the principles?

 

I think its all a big test. For the people who are carying out the teachings of the Swaminrayan scriptures fully, this includes the ones the are killing their own inner enemies such as lust ,envy, follow scriptures fully, as well as living under the refuge of the Dharmkul (Dharm vanshi Acharyas and their temples, saints and true original scriptures)-

 

:These are the ones who are fully carrying out their Dharm. Theyre the ones who passed this test. The rest of us will fail either by quarelling, not following Agna correctly, not conquering our iner enemies, going against the rules prescribed in the authentic Swaminarayan scriptures(such as Satsangi Jivan, Sikshapatri, Vachnamrut, Desh Vibhaag No Lekh), failing by following the wrong sort of upasna, carrying out their own sects under the Swaminarayan banner.

 

Also Desh Vibhaag No lekh clearly written by Shatanand Swami in the guidance of Bhagwan Swaminarayan also states clearly what is the foundation of true original Swaminarayan Satsang. Maybe its time that people today took some time out to read it before they blindly decide which of the Swaminarayan sects they should really follow and have faith in. Other scriptures also show everything clearly so what i find hard to understand is why do people ignore what is authentic for the later created?

 

What is true is that we should see avgun in none, and only goodness in everyone. Like Bhagwan Dattatrey take the goodness of all. But what is also important is that when it comes to upasna and agna we should stay vigilant in recognising wrong and right and follow what is right and teach others to do teh same as well.

 

Jay Shri Krishna

 

I agree with what you are saying... noone should ignore agna and upasana; as these vatos 'jeev nu jeevan chhe'... but why worry what others are doing and who are we to tell others what is right and what is wrong. Because what will happen is that some day God will direct them in the right direction and in the meanwhile, we will be still looking at what others are doing. Before we know it, we will increase our 'swabhavs' by watching them and realized when its too late that we've wasted so much time. That time could have been used to get closer to GOD...

 

The ego is the single most factor guiding what we do, how we live, how we interact in daily life. Swaminarayan's teachings (Vachnamrut, Shikshapatri, etc) have acknowledged this fact over and over again... ego - man/buddhi-etc are 'man's' worst enemy. What one should do, should not do, what one should follow, should not follow is not a humble disciple's 'job' to decide for others, for ones self yes ... A humble devotee is just that, accepts what God has decided, lives according to His principles and see Him in ALL...

 

Bhagwaan Swaminarayan's teachings has shown that this marg (path) is one of sabandh no mahema (the glory of being associated with HIM). That means all devotees no matter which sect they belong to are now sabandvara (associated ones with Him). Why, b/c we are all connected through Him; we pray to Him therefore we are sabandhvara. Maharaj explicitly states many many times that HE will not tolerate ANYONE who acts negatively towards His devotees, which means even 'alp sabandhvaras' (ones who are associated by being associated with devotees of the faith). Otherwise why would HE do an extra dandvat in Vachnamrut Ghadada II.40? He is teaching us the importance. There are soooooo many prasangs that illustrate this also.

 

In conclusion, this brings me back to my original point... we as devotees; should ONLY see the virtues of all and worry about if my satsang is what He would like it to be.. His 'rajipo' is in that only...

[Guest guest]

 

I agree with what you are saying... noone should ignore agna and upasana; as these vatos 'jeev nu jeevan chhe'... but why worry what others are doing and who are we to tell others what is right and what is wrong. Because what will happen is that some day God will direct them in the right direction and in the meanwhile, we will be still looking at what others are doing. Before we know it, we will increase our 'swabhavs' by watching them and realized when its too late that we've wasted so much time. That time could have been used to get closer to GOD...

 

The ego is the single most factor guiding what we do, how we live, how we interact in daily life. Swaminarayan's teachings (Vachnamrut, Shikshapatri, etc) have acknowledged this fact over and over again... ego - man/buddhi-etc are 'man's' worst enemy. What one should do, should not do, what one should follow, should not follow is not a humble disciple's 'job' to decide for others, for ones self yes ... A humble devotee is just that, accepts what God has decided, lives according to His principles and see Him in ALL...

 

Bhagwaan Swaminarayan's teachings has shown that this marg (path) is one of sabandh no mahema (the glory of being associated with HIM). That means all devotees no matter which sect they belong to are now sabandvara (associated ones with Him). Why, b/c we are all connected through Him; we pray to Him therefore we are sabandhvara. Maharaj explicitly states many many times that HE will not tolerate ANYONE who acts negatively towards His devotees, which means even 'alp sabandhvaras' (ones who are associated by being associated with devotees of the faith). Otherwise why would HE do an extra dandvat in Vachnamrut Ghadada II.40? He is teaching us the importance. There are soooooo many prasangs that illustrate this also.

 

In conclusion, this brings me back to my original point... we as devotees; should ONLY see the virtues of all and worry about if my satsang is what He would like it to be.. His 'rajipo' is in that only...

 

 

Yes your right. You sure are a mumukshu jeev, Where are you from? Could you tell me more about yourself? Also i do believe and understand what you say, However, Bhai Ifeelthat it is still important that we should recognise other so called sects within the faith. Hopefully Bhagwan Swaminarayan will direct them in the right direction.

 

Maharaj performed an extra dandvat just in case He took avgun or did droh of a Haibhakt. We all have to learn how to become such an Haribhakt as well. We should make sure we recogise a vimukh from a 'anuyayi of the original fold as well. No need to shun them or anything, just let them do what they want, but i feel its very important in recognising Sat from Asat if Archimarg is to be gained. Also Maharaj Himself states in the Vchnamrut the importance of Agna and Upasna.

 

The Sikshapatri also states that those that do not foolow the Sikshapatri shall be considered excomminicated and a Vimukh of the Sampraday. ALSO THAT ALL HIS FOLLOWERS REGARD THEM AS VIMUKh.

 

So no matter what Hu emne vikukh maanu Chu. Any other breakaway are Vimukhs, But hopefully Shrji Maharaj will grant them His Sukh and True way of attaining Him.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

Yes your right. You sure are a mumukshu jeev, Where are you from? Could you tell me more about yourself? Also i do believe and understand what you say, However, Bhai Ifeelthat it is still important that we should recognise other so called sects within the faith. Hopefully Bhagwan Swaminarayan will direct them in the right direction.

 

Maharaj performed an extra dandvat just in case He took avgun or did droh of a Haibhakt. We all have to learn how to become such an Haribhakt as well. We should make sure we recogise a vimukh from a 'anuyayi of the original fold as well. No need to shun them or anything, just let them do what they want, but i feel its very important in recognising Sat from Asat if Archimarg is to be gained. Also Maharaj Himself states in the Vchnamrut the importance of Agna and Upasna.

 

The Sikshapatri also states that those that do not foolow the Sikshapatri shall be considered excomminicated and a Vimukh of the Sampraday. ALSO THAT ALL HIS FOLLOWERS REGARD THEM AS VIMUKh.

 

So no matter what Hu emne vikukh maanu Chu. Any other breakaway are Vimukhs, But hopefully Shrji Maharaj will grant them His Sukh and True way of attaining Him.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

 

We are all mumukshu jeevs since we have attained Him. I am glad you brought this up about Shikshapatri. I know you have read it; so I will only add that when Maharaj states 'they shall be excommunicated...etc' then this would mean that all who treat His sabandvara 'negatively.. .and do tika charcha...and do gramya katha varta... and the like' would be also excommunicated. My point is that unless we don't live according to Vachnamrut P.16/18 then how can we even tread this path. The essence of this satsang is not only 'knowing' whats in these granths but to 'live' it as well... this satsang is about 'samjarn' not 'gnan'...by the way I'm a Ben not a Bhai...

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

We are all mumukshu jeevs since we have attained Him. I am glad you brought this up about Shikshapatri. I know you have read it; so I will only add that when Maharaj states 'they shall be excommunicated...etc' then this would mean that all who treat His sabandvara 'negatively.. .and do tika charcha...and do gramya katha varta... and the like' would be also excommunicated. My point is that unless we don't live according to Vachnamrut P.16/18 then how can we even tread this path. The essence of this satsang is not only 'knowing' whats in these granths but to 'live' it as well... this satsang is about 'samjarn' not 'gnan'...by the way I'm a Ben not a Bhai...

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

Mumukshu does not mean you have attained him, mumukshu means one who aspires for moksha or to please their Ishtadev.

Also where does it state in slokh 207 or even in the arthadeepika(bhasya) sabandvara, tika charcha or even gramya katha varta? Are you sure you are reading the same shikshapatri i am reading? One which has been authenticated by Dharmavanshi Acharyas(As per Swaminarayan Bhagwans wishes)?

Along with Vachanamrut 16/18, shouldnt the whole vachanamrut be followed including GP 1 and V18 dont you think??

It seems your knowledge on Swaminarayan bhagwan and his siddhant is limited due to you mentioning satsang is about samjarn and not gnan. Samjarn = Understanding and Gnan = Knowledge. How can you understand something if you have no knowledge of it? Especially this day in age where there are cults preaching they follow swaminarayan bhagwan when in actual facts they are all vimookhs The true sampradaya is the one set up by Shreeji Maharaj himself(Uddhav Sampradaya - Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi). Refer to GP33 Shreeji Maharaj himself advises best mode.

If you are a Ben perhaps you should ask a Sankhyogi bai(that is if you have them in your sanstha) about these issues, preferabally one which has been initated by Gadiwalla(the wife of Dharmavanshi Acharya) as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

Mumukshu does not mean you have attained him, mumukshu means one who aspires for moksha or to please their Ishtadev.

Also where does it state in slokh 207 or even in the arthadeepika(bhasya) sabandvara, tika charcha or even gramya katha varta? Are you sure you are reading the same shikshapatri i am reading? One which has been authenticated by Dharmavanshi Acharyas(As per Swaminarayan Bhagwans wishes)?

Along with Vachanamrut 16/18, shouldnt the whole vachanamrut be followed including GP 1 and V18 dont you think??

It seems your knowledge on Swaminarayan bhagwan and his siddhant is limited due to you mentioning satsang is about samjarn and not gnan. Samjarn = Understanding and Gnan = Knowledge. How can you understand something if you have no knowledge of it? Especially this day in age where there are cults preaching they follow swaminarayan bhagwan when in actual facts they are all vimookhs The true sampradaya is the one set up by Shreeji Maharaj himself(Uddhav Sampradaya - Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi). Refer to GP33 Shreeji Maharaj himself advises best mode.

If you are a Ben perhaps you should ask a Sankhyogi bai(that is if you have them in your sanstha) about these issues, preferabally one which has been initated by Gadiwalla(the wife of Dharmavanshi Acharya) as per Swaminarayan Bhagwans instructions.

 

Jay Swaminarayan

 

First question are you the same person that is writing to me before? If not this conversation ends here.

If so, I am sorry to say that it seems you have misunderstood my whole discussion here. You were willing to here me out until I mentioned I was a BEN.

Anyway, I enjoyed discussing my views here and by the way ANYONE who has taken refuge in Bhagwaan Swaminarayan and His teachings would know that the fundamental point of this satsang is about being a humble servant to the Lord AND HIS BHAKTOS and NOT about taking on the responsibility of who is doing right or wrong... Leave that up HIM!

 

Jai Swaminarayan

[Guest guest]

 

First question are you the same person that is writing to me before? If not this conversation ends here.

If so, I am sorry to say that it seems you have misunderstood my whole discussion here. You were willing to here me out until I mentioned I was a BEN.

Anyway, I enjoyed discussing my views here and by the way ANYONE who has taken refuge in Bhagwaan Swaminarayan and His teachings would know that the fundamental point of this satsang is about being a humble servant to the Lord AND HIS BHAKTOS and NOT about taking on the responsibility of who is doing right or wrong... Leave that up HIM!

 

Jai Swaminarayan

 

JAi SWAMINARAYAN,

 

Yes, it is the same person answering.

 

If it was so, then why have Saints, Acharyas, Bhakts etc altogether? Everything isn’t about being humble ONLY! This isn’t about being BEN or BHAI, this is about the Siddhants of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. How can anyone be a follower if you don’t follow His teachings? Why should the conversation end here? Rajbai, Jivubai, Ladhibai were all big Mukts! So why do you accuse me of being ignorant towards a female Sadhak? That’s being impractical.

 

Also you go on about “Sambandh ni Samjarn”- Like I say-Where does it state this?? Also when Swaminarayan Bhagwan mentions that “Those of my male and female disciples, who do not follow the precepts of this Shikshapatri, shall be considered as excommunicated from our Sampraday”, He does not mean ones without “sambandh ni samjarn”. You really need to look into Shastras in depth.

 

We have to clearly draw a fine line as to recognising where the authenticity of the Uddhav Sampraday lays today. If this means teaching others as well as learning individually between Agna, Upasna, Gyaan and Dharm then so be it. We should learn and also teach others the truth. Spread the Greatness and glory of Shriji Maharajs Satsang which was set up by Himself!!

 

You state that we should let Shriji Maharaj take the responsibility of who is right and wrong. I ask, why should we leave that to Maharaj? For He has served His purpose. Now it’s up to us to carry this satsang forward. When I mean US I mean the true Dharmvanshi Acharyas under the Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi, Santos and Haribhakts under the refuge of the Dharmvansh as prescribed in the authentic Swaminarayan Sampraday Satshastras like the Vachnamrut, Shikshapatri etc. Shriji Maharaj Himself states that if anything is wrong or anyone is doing wrong, then my satsangi should not tolerate it.

 

Also if we let just anybody and everybody carry out their Dharm, Agna and Upasna as they like and just go round saying “it’s all about SAMBANDH NI SAMJARN” then what will happen to the authenticity of the Satsang that Shriji Maharaj Himself set up?

 

Yes it’s important that we clear our inner enemies and be humble but does this mean sit there and turn a blind eye to what goes on today in the breakaway sects? For if this was the case and if this what Shriji Maharaj would have wanted then id probably be drinking the Abhishek remains of a so called swami bapa (Maninagar movement) or either reciting an Arti which has been changed like in the BAPS movement. NOW WHY SHOULD I LET THIS HAPPEN? WAS THIS SWAMINARAYAN BHAGWANS ORIGINAL WISH? IF SO THEN WHY IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES?

 

You can’t look at a few Vachnamrut and some up the whole sampraday and how you should lead life as a true follower of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. You need to read more!

 

Also a personal question, the scriptures you read: are they authentic? As for the Prasadi Mandirs that Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself built in His time, ALL are under the Dharmvanshi Acharyas. They also publish original scriptures as they actually hold the hand written ones by NAND PADVI SAINTS.

 

No matter what happens, my nischay will be unshakeable. There are no compromises in faith. The original doctrine of the Swaminarayan (Uddhav) Sampraday lays under the Amdavad Gadi (Kaushalendraprasadji Maharaj) and Vadtal Gadi (Rakeshprasadji Maharaj).

 

If you require any more information then don’t hesitate to contact me: m_bhudia@hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

 

JAi SWAMINARAYAN,

 

Yes, it is the same person answering.

 

If it was so, then why have Saints, Acharyas, Bhakts etc altogether? Everything isn’t about being humble ONLY! This isn’t about being BEN or BHAI, this is about the Siddhants of Bhagwan Swaminarayan. How can anyone be a follower if you don’t follow His teachings? Why should the conversation end here? Rajbai, Jivubai, Ladhibai were all big Mukts! So why do you accuse me of being ignorant towards a female Sadhak? That’s being impractical.

 

Also you go on about “Sambandh ni Samjarn”- Like I say-Where does it state this?? Also when Swaminarayan Bhagwan mentions that “Those of my male and female disciples, who do not follow the precepts of this Shikshapatri, shall be considered as excommunicated from our Sampraday”, He does not mean ones without “sambandh ni samjarn”. You really need to look into Shastras in depth.

 

We have to clearly draw a fine line as to recognising where the authenticity of the Uddhav Sampraday lays today. If this means teaching others as well as learning individually between Agna, Upasna, Gyaan and Dharm then so be it. We should learn and also teach others the truth. Spread the Greatness and glory of Shriji Maharajs Satsang which was set up by Himself!!

 

You state that we should let Shriji Maharaj take the responsibility of who is right and wrong. I ask, why should we leave that to Maharaj? For He has served His purpose. Now it’s up to us to carry this satsang forward. When I mean US I mean the true Dharmvanshi Acharyas under the Amdavad and Vadtal Gadi, Santos and Haribhakts under the refuge of the Dharmvansh as prescribed in the authentic Swaminarayan Sampraday Satshastras like the Vachnamrut, Shikshapatri etc. Shriji Maharaj Himself states that if anything is wrong or anyone is doing wrong, then my satsangi should not tolerate it.

 

Also if we let just anybody and everybody carry out their Dharm, Agna and Upasna as they like and just go round saying “it’s all about SAMBANDH NI SAMJARN” then what will happen to the authenticity of the Satsang that Shriji Maharaj Himself set up?

 

Yes it’s important that we clear our inner enemies and be humble but does this mean sit there and turn a blind eye to what goes on today in the breakaway sects? For if this was the case and if this what Shriji Maharaj would have wanted then id probably be drinking the Abhishek remains of a so called swami bapa (Maninagar movement) or either reciting an Arti which has been changed like in the BAPS movement. NOW WHY SHOULD I LET THIS HAPPEN? WAS THIS SWAMINARAYAN BHAGWANS ORIGINAL WISH? IF SO THEN WHY IS IT NOT WRITTEN IN THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES?

 

You can’t look at a few Vachnamrut and some up the whole sampraday and how you should lead life as a true follower of the Swaminarayan Sampraday. You need to read more!

 

Also a personal question, the scriptures you read: are they authentic? As for the Prasadi Mandirs that Bhagwan Swaminarayan Himself built in His time, ALL are under the Dharmvanshi Acharyas. They also publish original scriptures as they actually hold the hand written ones by NAND PADVI SAINTS.

 

No matter what happens, my nischay will be unshakeable. There are no compromises in faith. The original doctrine of the Swaminarayan (Uddhav) Sampraday lays under the Amdavad Gadi (Kaushalendraprasadji Maharaj) and Vadtal Gadi (Rakeshprasadji Maharaj).

 

If you require any more information then don’t hesitate to contact me: m_bhudia@hotmail.com

 

I'm answering for the last time and more ways then one, you have proven my point:

 

1. I'm not accusing you of anything; that would be a sin for me to feel ill towards ANY devotees of Bhagwaan Swaminarayan.

 

2. Bhagwaan Swaminaryan's greatness therefore this satsang's greatness lies in that we are able to be redeemed by being associated with Him, His devotees etc.. HIS SABAND ... READ CHELA NU 7 AND 11, MADHYA 54 ETC. Look up the prasangs of Bhagwaan Swaminarayan's life; for example the one about the NUTS WHO CAME TO SARANGPUR OR ABOUT PANNA PATEL AND HIS JEALOUSY TOWARDS HIS NEIGHBOUR OR THE PRASANG ABOUT WHEN MAHARAJ ASKS ARE YOU DHOLYA NA SATSANGI OR SATSANGI NA SATSANGI... OR READ ABOUT GREAT DEVOTEES LIKE PARVATBHAI...

 

3. I READ MORE THAN YOU WOULD KNOW... i am not summing up the vachnamrut in reading only few... I have read the vachnamrut and have seen in various vachnmruts they all come back to the same point... BHAKTOS NO MAHEMA; SABAND NO MAHEMA...Maharaj doesnt take well to insulting or judging His devotees whether they be in the satsang or not.

 

4. You keep saying read the 'original' books. Isn't the vachnamrut His word? How is it that I can see all these things from the SAME BOOK YOU HAVE READ? Aren't you chanting the same mantra I am? I think you need to read the SHIKSHAPATRI CLEARLY my friend. READ PRATHAM 18, MAHARAJ STATES THAT ALL THAT KNOWLEDGE DOESN'T MAKE A PERSON KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG... you can have all the knowledge in the world but if you cannot understand it and live it.. then whats the point of that knowledge you have attained??? READ MADHYA 25.

 

5. Ramanand Swami gave Maharaj 2 boons and Maharaj for 2 boons. ARE YOU A GOD REALIZED SAINT? Has Maharaj chosen you to be a judge or else? As a devotee our only responsibility is to look at OUR SELF.. read PRATHAM 16 FIRST VIVEK. NO WHERE DOES HE MENTION to chastise His devotees; recall the prasang of LALO where he became a ghost in a well.

 

NO matter what has been said here; this satsang has attracted me b/c of the practicality of Bhagwaan Swaminarayan's teachings. His word, prasangs and His life have been and are still being inspiring and has truly changed who I am today. If it weren't for the samaj I am in now; I wouldn't even be able to look at myself and Maharaj states one who can't look at oneself is 'neech ma neech, ghelo ma ghelo, agnani ma agnani and murkh ma murkh' READ PRATHAM 20.

 

I will not be on this blog anymore...

Jai Swaminarayan