Did Adi Shankaracharya denounce Caste?

[Guest guest]

This is a must read!!

 

 

by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami

 

There are hundreds of thousands of people who have been dislodged from their parents' religion through their belief in reincarnation, karma and the knowledge of God's all pervasiveness, and yet they have not been fully taken into the Hindu religion or its community of devotees. Why? Because of color? Yes, that is partly true. Many Indian people say, "You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu. You cannot adopt the Hindu religion. You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu." This, of course, is not true. Other Indian Hindus say, "You have to be born in India and in a caste to be a Hindu." This also is not true. What about all of you who were born and live here in Sri Lanka? What about the Hindus in Bali, those in Malaysia or the Hindus born in Trinidad, Nepal, Europe, Guyana, Suriname and elsewhere? Are they not Hindus?

 

We did some research on this erroneous statement: "You cannot convert to Hinduism." We studied dozens of books and noted down all of the quotes that we could find that said, "You have to be born a Hindu to be a Hindu" or "You have to be born in India to be a Hindu." We found that these two quotes were only in the books authored by Christians. These statements, we concluded, were nothing more than Christian propaganda against the Hindu religion. Presumably, the Christians knew that if they could stop or at least slow down the growth of Hinduism through conversion, they would make more progress in their own conversions and in a few generations perhaps destroy Hinduism. We did not find these statements in a single book written by a Hindu author.

 

In fact, eminent Hindu authors have said that you can convert to Hinduism. Swami Vivekananda proclaimed, "Born aliens have been converted in the past by crowds, and the process is still going on." Even if you only adopt Hindu practices, believe in reincarnation and karma and do a puja once a day, you are a Hindu and will be accepted by Hindu society. Unfortunately, a minority of Hindus of Indian origin, educated in Christian schools, and even a few Western-influenced swamis and pandits and one or two Shankaracharyas, echo this misinformation with conviction. We can now see how the Christian propaganda has negatively influenced the growth of Hinduism worldwide. Their propaganda has infiltrated, diluted and destroyed the Hindu's faith in his own religion.

[Guest guest]

A Few Points:

 

1. If the modern caste system is holding any one back, than it is surely adharmic. Any dharmic system must be designed for the benefit of people, or else it is an evil to those it oppresses.

 

2. There is no such thing as a person born as a Hindu. They may be born into a family with Hindu parents, but only time will tell what their personal beliefs are. There are many men and women who were born into Hindu households, that are atheist or agnostic. If you do not believe me, please check out some desi forums on the web.

 

3. Just like there is no one born Hindu, there is also no one born Christian or Muslim. A person may be born into a Christian or Muslim house, but they might not believe in Christian or Muslim dogma. There are many westerners who have rejected the Christian rhetoric and now follow eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism & Taoism. And there are Middle Easterners in the most oppressive Islamic states, who are sickened by Islamic teachings, and secretly study and practice other spiritual beliefs.

 

4. The whole idea that someone is born as some religious label is absurd. No one is born with a religious or atheist label on their forehead, no matter whether there parents are Atheist, Hindu, Muslim, Catholic, or whatever else.

 

5. Everyone has the right to follow the spiritual path that calls to them. Genuine Spiritual teachings are universal and do not belong to any one race or caste. Karma and reincarnation apply to all. And therefore, the need for every soul to find the moksha teachings of Sanatana Dharma is certainly there.

 

Krishna did not speak his words to Arjuna alone, BUT TO EVERY Jiva swimming in the Ocean of Samsara.

[Guest guest]

As per scriptures, to follow sanaathana Dharma, there is no prerequisite that a soul should have been born in a family of people who are already following the dharma.

 

There were so many sants from other religion who worshipped krishnaa and reached his lotus feet.

 

Yes, when it comes to varnashrama dharma where the system is followed on the basis of birth, then to be fit in a particular varna, there is a prerequisite that one should be born in a family of particular varna. But this is neither necessary for obtaining knowledge for god realisation nor necessary for ultimately realising God.

 

be merry

[Guest guest]

In the South American country of Guyana (where many indians live) the Hindus were able to fight off the incessant attempts at Christian conversions, precisely because of the breakdown of the caste system. The same is happening in Indian villages today, with groups like the Swaminarayan helping to end adharmic caste nonsense, and make all Hindus proud to be Hindu; without being tempted to conver to the Christian cult..

 

 

In Guyana, during the indenture period, the East Indian caste system, with its reinforced variations of rites and beliefs . .broke down. Hinduism was redefined, and caste-distinguishing practices were eliminated. Christian missionaries attempted to convert East Indians during the indenture period, beginning in 1852, but met with little success. The missionaries blamed the Brahmans for their failure: the Brahmans began administering spiritual rites to all Hindus regardless of caste once the Christian missionaries started proselytizing in the villages, hastening the breakdown of the caste system. After the 1930s, Hindu conversions to Christianity slowed because the status of Hinduism had improved and discrimination against Hindus had diminished.

[Guest guest]

caste system is sick. thousands of castes were never envisioned in the varnashrama dharma. But Varna by birth system is as per shaasthraas. it was there it would be there. May be number of people following it is dwindling.As per scriptures, it would sustain till kalki borns in the family of a brahmana who comes in the lineage of brahmanas in the sambala grama. Hate, bigotry, oppression are the weapons of propagandists who follow the caste stystem which has really become corrupt. People who follow varna by birth system are ( all the four varnas) peacefully engaged in their pursuit of religion as per scriptures and would be found only in Bharatavarsha.

 

be happy.

[Guest guest]

Casteism not Hinduism

By Manju Gupta

 

Luminous Kashi to Vibrant Varanasi; K. Chandramouli; Indica Books,

Varanasi; pp 486; Rs 575.00

 

THE practice of untouchability and caste discrimination on the basis

of birth is a dark blot on the religious culture of India as also on

the Hindu society. It is a problem that has been plaguing the society

since ages and is an offshoot of a perverted, arbitrary and vested

interpretation of Hindu scriptures.

 

The book under review raises some very pertinent questions: Is the

interpolation of some verses in the Hindu scriptures relating to

caste discrimination a part of a vilification campaign? Is it a

reaction to religious conversion thrown up by the political situation

existing in the country? Is it a well-organised and well-orchestrated

campaign carried out by vested interests within the country at the

behest of international agencies? Is the birth-based caste system in

conformity with the Hindu scriptures? Is this malpractice borne out

of social, historical or political compulsions?

 

In order to examine this problem of caste discrimination and

untouchability in the context of Hindu scriptures, the author K.V.

Paliwal has delved deep into the definition, characteristics and

scope of Hindu dharma, the jati and varna system and the social

relationships with the so-called shudras.

 

According to the Rig Veda the meaning of the word dharma is "the

nature of the object". The word is derived from its root dhri which

means `dharati itidharmah', i.e. those things through which the world

is maintained and protected. Hence, in the Mahabharata, it is

mentioned that "dharma is called dharma because it maintains human

values. Dharma maintains the subjects—the people. That one is

certainly dharma which has the ability to maintain." Maharishi

Dayanand has offered a very logical, rational and universal

definition of dharma that serves as a touchstone. He has

said, "Dharma in spirit means following the directions of God and

dispensation of unbiased justice in the interest of all. Dharma means

well acquaintance with direct proofs, etc., and since this is stated

in the Vedas, this alone is acceptable to all characteristics of

dharma men."

 

The Hindu dharma has been in existence since the beginning of human

creation, and its basic religious scriptures, i.e. Vedas were

revealed at that time so that man could lead a discreet life, knowing

his duties in life. Rishi and munis wrote many granthas in which they

rendered detailed analyses of topics described in the Vedas. Thus it

is the Vedas that rendered the most authentic exposition on Hindu

dharma. The injunctions of the Vedas are universal and eternal, meant

for the welfare of all human beings and are free from any

discrimination based on colour, caste, creed, gender or language. The

knowledge in the Vedas is comprehensive and complete in all respects,

offering solutions to all religious, social, economic, political and

spiritual problems.

 

The Hindu society is based on the varna system and not on birth-based

caste system. In fact, the two words—varna and jati or caste have

great significance in the social system and both are interrelated. In

the context of the varna vyavastha, varna is a short-time and

changeable system which denotes an occupation selected by a person

according to one's qualities, education, action, temperament, etc.

 

A person is called a Brahmin for his "study of the Vedic knowledge,

for his complete immersion in the worship of the Lord and for the

inculcation of the superior qualities emanating from learning, etc."

The Kshatriyas are persons who are strong and action-oriented and who

defend the public. Vaishyas are those skilled in various commercial

activities and practices while the Shudras are those who have not

been able to attain a high status due to their ignorance.

 

The author has tried to remove the misconception that the present-day

discrimination against the Shudras has been continuing since the time

of the Vedas and according to which the entire human race was divided

into two groups—the Aryans and the Dasyus and that among the Aryans,

the four varnas were recognised upon their quality, action and

temperament. The Shastras have enjoined that "the individual and the

community are bound in a feeling of common and complementary dignity

and designation…By birth every man is a Shudra; later on through

ethical and spiritual improvement, he redevelops as a Brahmin."

 

No doubt the book is a treatise on varna vyavastha which is karmana

(i.e. in accordance with man's qualities, actions and temperament)

and it rightly asserts that every conscious Hindu should play a

constructive role in eradication of untouchability and that

the "present governmental reservations for SCs, STs and OBCs in jobs

and education is not a permanent solution of the problem because it

runs counter to the principle of individual, self-inspired

development. It is only a remedy for the time being."

[Guest guest]

I read this and it breaks my heart to read.

 

"I just wanted to mention that some "dalits" living in the US are still fearful of visiting Hindu temples here in America because of discrimination they expereinced back home in India. I have meet such people who wondered why I would want to become a Hindu since in India his family had experienced such persecution. They were not allowed to visit Hindu temples, eat at certain restaurants, or attend local Yoga classes. I feel so sad for these people- the true message of sanathana dharma has been so distorted. I invited this man and his family to my temple yet he was still too fearful of physical and verbal abuse to come. They are now members of a local Buddhist temple. This is definitely something I think all Hindus, especially those that convert or adopt the Hindu faith should work to change."

 

True dharma teaches love for all - not discrimination! How can anyone call themselves a follower of Sanatana Dharma, and promote bigotry in the name of dharma?

 

May more western hindus show the hindus in India who promote discrimination, what true dharma is all about. There can not be a Temple in the West that would discriminate, or practice casteism. Yet some dalits are still scared to visit because of bigotry they faced back east. Very sad.

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

I read this and it breaks my heart to read.

 

"I just wanted to mention that some "dalits" living in the US are still fearful of visiting Hindu temples here in America because of discrimination they expereinced back home in India. I have meet such people who wondered why I would want to become a Hindu since in India his family had experienced such persecution. They were not allowed to visit Hindu temples, eat at certain restaurants, or attend local Yoga classes. I feel so sad for these people- the true message of sanathana dharma has been so distorted. I invited this man and his family to my temple yet he was still too fearful of physical and verbal abuse to come. They are now members of a local Buddhist temple. This is definitely something I think all Hindus, especially those that convert or adopt the Hindu faith should work to change."

 

True dharma teaches love for all - not discrimination! How can anyone call themselves a follower of Sanatana Dharma, and promote bigotry in the name of dharma?

 

May more western hindus show the hindus in India who promote discrimination, what true dharma is all about. There can not be a Temple in the West that would discriminate, or practice casteism. Yet some dalits are still scared to visit because of bigotry they faced back east. Very sad.

 

Listen Prabhu...first of all let me tell u a thing about this four varnas or caste....Brahman body contains satwwik goon (depending on the society he grew up ofcourse).....Khatriya and Vaishya body is mainly of Rajo Goon and the bodt of a sudra is of tamasik goon .... all the three goons are present in all the four caste...but a primary goon is set by genetics (gotras).....ved says sudras contain tamasik goon (bad of all goon) may be lord tries to see how well a soul performs in such a body & in such a goon....that is why from stone carving, iron smith, etc all are supposed to be done by a sudra to keep his mind of bad thaughts...a sudra has a lot of energy....

 

Speaking of untouchibility...welll....only performed by karma yogis (those who wants heaven) not by bhakti margis.....ved calls a karma margi the biggest fool around....

 

This karma margis changed indian society in such a way that they forgot lord and tried to do right karma (impossible in kali yug) and henceforth such discriminations......

[Guest guest]

 

 

Listen Prabhu...first of all let me tell u a thing about this four varnas or caste....Brahman body contains satwwik goon (depending on the society he grew up ofcourse).....Khatriya and Vaishya body is mainly of Rajo Goon and the bodt of a sudra is of tamasik goon .... all the three goons are present in all the four caste...but a primary goon is set by genetics (gotras).....ved says sudras contain tamasik goon (bad of all goon) may be lord tries to see how well a soul performs in such a body & in such a goon....that is why from stone carving, iron smith, etc all are supposed to be done by a sudra to keep his mind of bad thaughts...a sudra has a lot of energy....

 

Speaking of untouchibility...welll....only performed by karma yogis (those who wants heaven) not by bhakti margis.....ved calls a karma margi the biggest fool around....

 

This karma margis changed indian society in such a way that they forgot lord and tried to do right karma (impossible in kali yug) and henceforth such discriminations......

 

I am sorry but your caste nonsense is BS. I don't care how caste is practiced or what it is supposed to mean... it is still discriminatory. You want to sit here and explain what caste is? Just because a Sudra has a lot of energy and does labour work does not make them "bad" or "unpure" or any less of a human bieng then a priest or a warrior-they still have the same atman (forget about their external bodies- it is not important in Hinduism). True Hindus will not look at caste. The evil Brahmins of today sure send out the wrong teachings. They want to stay on top and blame Kali Yug for their fall. Well guess what? Kali Yug is not doing anything but bringing out the true nature of the evil Brahmins-their discrimination.

 

From a devout Indian Hindu

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

I am sorry but your caste nonsense is BS. I don't care how caste is practiced or what it is supposed to mean... it is still discriminatory. You want to sit here and explain what caste is? Just because a Sudra has a lot of energy and does labour work does not make them "bad" or "unpure" or any less of a human bieng then a priest or a warrior-they still have the same atman (forget about their external bodies- it is not important in Hinduism). True Hindus will not look at caste. The evil Brahmins of today sure send out the wrong teachings. They want to stay on top and blame Kali Yug for their fall. Well guess what? Kali Yug is not doing anything but bringing out the true nature of the evil Brahmins-their discrimination.

From a devout Indian Hindu

True Prabhu but u see even one soul travels through so many bodies....he is not judged....but as a human he is judged by god...Karma Yoni...

The four varnass were made by god prabhu not me....I don't say things from my mind.....No body is calling a sudra impure...hey! the people who doesn't practice caste are even below them....Its a rule set by the ved not by any human...Lord Raam was escorted by Gruha (spelling could be wrong) ...Kaal Bhusandi was also a tribal ...he was lords bhakt....I am not telling to practice untouchibility....I am just saying that if a sudra performs bhakti or karmic rituals delivered by the ved he will be blessed with a body u call brahmin.....FROM PRABHUPAD TO MADHAVACHARYA ALL WERE BRAHMINS....they may showed bhakti towards lord in their before life and thus was blessed with a brahman body to attain complete bhakti....not that it cannot be attended by a sudra, vaishya or a khatriya....SORRY! if i hurt ur sentiment in someway....THERE IS NO GREATER THEN LORDS BHAKT!

If u don't believe in Ved well ..... buddha even though an avatar of god is still not accepted by the hindu community...remember him?

[Guest guest]

 

True Prabhu but u see even one soul travels through so many bodies....he is not judged....but as a human he is judged by god...Karma Yoni...

The four varnass were made by god prabhu not me....I don't say things from my mind.....No body is calling a sudra impure...hey! the people who doesn't practice caste are even below them....Its a rule set by the ved not by any human...Lord Raam was escorted by Gruha (spelling could be wrong) ...Kaal Bhusandi was also a tribal ...he was lords bhakt....I am not telling to practice untouchibility....I am just saying that if a sudra performs bhakti or karmic rituals delivered by the ved he will be blessed with a body u call brahmin.....FROM PRABHUPAD TO MADHAVACHARYA ALL WERE BRAHMINS....they may showed bhakti towards lord in their before life and thus was blessed with a brahman body to attain complete bhakti....not that it cannot be attended by a sudra, vaishya or a khatriya....SORRY! if i hurt ur sentiment in someway....THERE IS NO GREATER THEN LORDS BHAKT!

If u don't believe in Ved well ..... buddha even though an avatar of god is still not accepted by the hindu community...remember him?

 

So you are saying that caste as baed on merit and not by birth? That a sudra who has good actions is a Brahmin?

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

So you are saying that caste as baed on merit and not by birth? That a sudra who has good actions is a Brahmin?

 

Sorry! did not understand the word "baed" so cannot answer the 1st question ? but for the second....wellllll...ever heard about Rishi Vishwaa Mitra .... he was blessed with a brahman body in his lifetime....he was khatriya...he achieved brahamanat....never read about any sudra becoming a brahman though...but I guess if he performs selfless bhakti he can achieve lord kingdom and laugh on the other sects....not that one who has achieved lord's kingdom does such a worthless egoistic thing....welllll....as per good actions are concerned welll.....even if a brahmin performs it correctly he will receive heaven an then perish and roam around in 84 lakh bhog yonis ....ved calls such a person The Greatest Fool of all...so much work and such a little happiness......

 

Listen I asked another bhakt about this he said....(I ain't no english...so the sentences could be gramatically wrong so sorry!) getting blessed as human in itself is truly Lord Raam Lord Krishna's kripa....a person is only born once as a sudra...does good karma and or bhakti get two times birth as vaishya

again does good karma and or bhakti get blessed three times birth as khatriya and similarly performing good karma and or bhakti he takes birth four times as a brahmin...the occurence in order may change as per his karma and ofcourse bhakti but even after getting a brahman body if he doesn't perform bhakti he perishes and again roam around in the bhog yonis for as much bad karma he did judges by the all merciful lord Raam - Krishna

Prabhu I don't want to post such things that hurts sentiment of some sect or community..I am sorry If I insulted u in anyway...I apologize

 

I will like to mention u that the bhaktjans I sing Hanumanchalisa with every Tuesday and Saturday are all Raam Bhakts and they come from such caste...but we respect them as a fellow devotee...this is India I am talking about Prabhu...I don't why u r so angry...wether u urself was abused or not? who ever abused u or threatened someone to not enter a temple must be held as a social nusence...Don't give up on Lord Raam for stupid ignorant humans, he is all merciful.....just read Raamcharitmanas Prabhuji......I am a Brahmin Prabhuji...I know how caste system is in India....but u got to understand not everyone finds a true "Guru" and also even if they do don't follow as they say.....they cook up things from their own wits and in turns perish in it....Ved is the original scripture for every human being...it is eternal and cannot be questioned ....follow it....some morons follow their "Aahankar" and perishes...don't judge ved on their stupid duty...Prabhu pls let us know ur views....

 

[Guest guest]

 

So you are saying that caste as baed on merit and not by birth? That a sudra who has good actions is a Brahmin?

 

Only "some" Indians believe in shudras. Hindus outside of India do not recognize such distinctions.

 

At Hindu Temples in America and Canada, caste means NOTHING. It is illegal in the US and Canada to discriminate against someone based on race, gender or caste in a religious institution.

 

Please call no one a lower person than you, you are not better than anyone else because of what house you are born into. Most of the world doesn't even have a caste system, in which they label people with spiritual classifications based on what household they are born into.

 

When someone converts to a Hindu sect, they do not all of a sudden have caste labels thrust upon them. The world is better off without the evils of the corrupt caste system.

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

Only "some" Indians believe in shudras. Hindus outside of India do not recognize such distinctions.

 

At Hindu Temples in America and Canada, caste means NOTHING. It is illegal in the US and Canada to discriminate against someone based on race, gender or caste in a religious institution.

 

Please call no one a lower person than you, you are not better than anyone else because of what house you are born into. Most of the world doesn't even have a caste system, in which they label people with spiritual classifications based on what household they are born into.

 

When someone converts to a Hindu sect, they do not all of a sudden have caste labels thrust upon them. The world is better off without the evils of the corrupt caste system.

 

Man! wow! conversion to hinduism thats a new one......I know initiations to Vaishnav and Shaivik or other such sects but conversion ..... welll.....I guess u leave in some totally newly formed away from the ved community....because everyone is born a hindu....no one is converted neither are there any rituals on such actions....well there is ritual called suddhi karan performed by many tribals in INDIA but has nothing to do with conversion.....people or societies to be exact moved away from main stream vedic culture and created their communities with their wits which is full of errors and thus u see what u see today....there is a link under my signature ...the second one from left click it to know more....man! conversion to hinduism...a western member himself posted that he wants to be a hindu but since he cannot convert....and u say conversion to hindu....there is no such ritual prabhu....since the word hindu is also made by societies which were made by humans....British occupation just made the name popular.....ved, human thats it and oh! who can forget the The Great Lord.....

 

Why did u quote this guy ....he was speaking the same thing.....read the threads nicely Prabhu!

[Guest guest]

 

 

Man! wow! conversion to hinduism thats a new one......I know initiations to Vaishnav and Shaivik or other such sects but conversion ..... welll.....I guess u leave in some totally newly formed away from the ved community....because everyone is born a hindu....no one is converted neither are there any rituals on such actions....well there is ritual called suddhi karan performed by many tribals in INDIA but has nothing to do with conversion.....people or societies to be exact moved away from main stream vedic culture and created their communities with their wits which is full of errors and thus u see what u see today....there is a link under my signature ...the second one from left click it to know more....man! conversion to hinduism...a western member himself posted that he wants to be a hindu but since he cannot convert....and u say conversion to hindu....there is no such ritual prabhu....since the word hindu is also made by societies which were made by humans....British occupation just made the name popular.....ved, human thats it and oh! who can forget the The Great Lord.....

 

Why did u quote this guy ....he was speaking the same thing.....read the threads nicely Prabhu!

 

There might not be a concersion process but anyone can become a Hindu. You can be White, Black or Asian...it does not matter.

 

Also to the guest that posted about caste....i agree with you. Caste is just an evil institution practiced by upper caste Hindus in India. They are so much into this twice or three time born non sense. A true Hindu will never see caste...they will see human biengs equally in the eyes of Brahma.

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

There might not be a concersion process but anyone can become a Hindu. You can be White, Black or Asian...it does not matter.

 

Also to the guest that posted about caste....i agree with you. Caste is just an evil institution practiced by upper caste Hindus in India. They are so much into this twice or three time born non sense. A true Hindu will never see caste...they will see human biengs equally in the eyes of Brahma.

 

Prabhu pls read the thread carefully....read my post prior to the post u quoted..I myself...well just read it...pls!

 

Incase u don't know this read a post called Kali Yug by me...see what its hold...who is saying it and on what context...pls read the threads carefully before quoting someone!

[Guest guest]

 

 

Listen Prabhu...first of all let me tell u a thing about this four varnas or caste....Brahman body contains satwwik goon (depending on the society he grew up ofcourse).....Khatriya and Vaishya body is mainly of Rajo Goon and the bodt of a sudra is of tamasik goon .... all the three goons are present in all the four caste...but a primary goon is set by genetics (gotras).....ved says sudras contain tamasik goon (bad of all goon) may be lord tries to see how well a soul performs in such a body & in such a goon....that is why from stone carving, iron smith, etc all are supposed to be done by a sudra to keep his mind of bad thaughts...a sudra has a lot of energy....

 

Speaking of untouchibility...welll....only performed by karma yogis (those who wants heaven) not by bhakti margis.....ved calls a karma margi the biggest fool around....

 

This karma margis changed indian society in such a way that they forgot lord and tried to do right karma (impossible in kali yug) and henceforth such discriminations......

 

 

Gopal,

 

I am born to a so-called "Sudra" family (according to your caste system that you love to cherish). I however have taken a more spiritual path and am in the process of becoming a Brahmachari and have a wonderful Guru who is leading the way.

 

So I want to know what you think of this since you are a born Brahmin and you love to distinguish individuals by their caste? I have all the qualities to follow this path. But I am born a Sudra...are you telling me that I cannot take this path?

[gopal_deo_sharma 0]

 

Gopal,

 

I am born to a so-called "Sudra" family (according to your caste system that you love to cherish). I however have taken a more spiritual path and am in the process of becoming a Brahmachari and have a wonderful Guru who is leading the way.

 

So I want to know what you think of this since you are a born Brahmin and you love to distinguish individuals by their caste? I have all the qualities to follow this path. But I am born a Sudra...are you telling me that I cannot take this path?

 

Prabhu read my prior posts....where did i said such a thing?i even said a sudra born can attain lord before a brahman can if he performs bhakti...prabhu i have grew up not in a hatefull society....the bhajans i sing are by tulsidas....my fellow devotees are sudras and khtriyas....i see no difference in them or me as long as they are in bhakti marg...

 

Ofcourse u can take any path prabhu! and u can take a noble one indeed good luck....but i thaught bramachari is performed from teenhood....u cannot just take it up....i think u talking about sanyas...

[Guest guest]

Sanatana Dharma is the eternal religion of EVERY soul. Conversion is just a jiva coming "home" to understanding in the Way. All Jivas already are "Hindu", some've just forgotten.

 

There are no such beings as Indians or Africans, or Europeans, nor Brahmins, sudras, etc, for we are all the SAME in our Soul-Essence. We can label our bodies, but not our souls. Sri Krishna says, those with equal vision make no distinctions, but see the eternal Atman in all.

[Guest guest]

[An editorial by Bhumika Ghimire, a freelance writer based in Indiana,

USA. Originally from Nepal, she is a graduate of Schiller University,

Florida. She is a contributing writer on International Business at

internationalbusiness.suite101.com and is vurrently

spearheading a petition campaign to prosecute Maoists in Nepal for

their human rights abuses at petitiononline.com/maoists/petition.html

 

July 2006: As a society changes through time, its culture, beliefs and

social systems need to change. Otherwise there will be an imbalance

which has negative effect in the society, it's people and its growth.

 

The Nepali Hindu society has now entered a defining moment in history.

After the nations' historic April revolutuion, which essentially

brought down the monarchy and declared the nation secular, the people

now have the task of rebuilding nation. Until the rveolution, Nepal

was a Hindu state, with majority of population being Hindus. So the

task of reforming the nation should start with the largest group of

people.

 

Following are certain practices and beliefs which need to be reformed

or removed if we want Nepal to progress as a modern society:

 

1) The ritual of animal sacrifice should be stopped immediately. This

practice is inhuman and cruel. In name of religion we as a society

cannot promote cruelty.

 

2) The practice of discriminating women when they are mensurating

should stop. I know the supreme court has outlawed this but then it is

not be honoured. In my home (while in Nepal) I was not allowed to

enter the kitchen, go to the temple or touch anyone while I was having

my periods. Yes I accept the blame for promoting this draconian

practice and I promise I will not go dumb when this happens again.

Every Nepali family should understand that mensuration is a normal

bilogial process and does not make one "un-pure". This whole concept

of discriminating mensurating women was developed to ensure that women

didn't value themselves, that women felt they are inferior.

 

3) The practice of dowry should end. For my wedding my parents didn't

spend much on dowry because we would be living in US and it was not

possible to bring everything here. Still almost all wedding in Nepal,

dowry is a big issue. The groom's side often ask for certain items or

certain amount of money. In terai region, brides are tourtured, killed

because of dowry dispute. If a bride doesn't bring enough dowry, she

is often humiliated by the family members who then force her to ask

more from her parents. This is extortion.

 

4) Then there is the plight of widows. As I mentioned in [another]

article, widows are at the bottom of Hindu society, even below the

untouchables. She cannot wear red, has to give up eating meat (if she

is a non-vegitarian), she cannot wear makeup. Widows are seen as sign

of bad luck, so they are not invited in ceratin cermonies during a

wedding. Family humiliation and society's torture is another thing

they have to bear. In contrast if a wife dies a man is a free bird.

Some even marry immediately after the customary 45-day mourning

period. This is height of discrimination and cruely againt women.

 

5) Caste system should be abolished. In fact (this is extreme), no one

should be allowed to write their last name which would represent their

caste. For example, I am a Ghimire, so I am a brahmin (the so-called

higher caste), so I should not write my name as Bhumika Ghimire.

Instead of a caste based last name people should write another name as

last name. For example, Bhumika Laxmi (Laxmi is goddess of wealth).

 

6) Everyone should be allowed to enter a temple. The untouchables and

people from other religions should not be barred.

 

7) Discrimination against single womern, childless women and women who

don't have sons should end. A widow should be allowed to remarry,if

she desires. I know there is no legal provision against widow

re-marriage but then the families still do not accept this and take

this as a sign of promuscuity or betryal.

[Guest guest]

 

No body is calling a sudra impure...hey! the people who doesn't practice caste are even below them....Its a rule set by the ved not by any human...

 

 

On one hand you're saying Shudras are not impure, then you're saying people who don't practice caste are LOWER than them. But the majority of people in this world do not follow caste and live good non-oppressed lives. Lower castes are oppressed in India, that is a fact whether you like it or not and I suppose you like it that way. You are telling people to follow this caste nonsense and be oppressed (if they are from lower castes) or else they are lower than Shudras? Maybe you have this backwards attitude because you are born into a family of Brahmins, Mr Sharma and you don't like to see you postition challenged by others. Who needs Christian and Muslim missionaries when Brahmins like you will kill Hinduism much quicker than anything else?

 

 

If u don't believe in Ved well ..... buddha even though an avatar of god is still not accepted by the hindu community...remember him?

 

 

So now you're saying that even an 'avatar' of God is not accepted by Hindus?There are many attempts by various Hindu organisations to 'absorb' Buddha as one of them. Maybe it is because the Hindu community doesn't have a single 'historical' figure as great or well known around the world as him. And because he didn't follow caste or Veda you are implying that he is lower than a shudra? I suppose you think that same of countless Hindu gurus who didn't let caste restict them.

 

You talk about the Ved all the time, but the fact of the matter is the Vedic religion is dead as very few study or follow the Vedas, it is the puranic, yogic and vedantic traditions that are still alive to this day.

[Guest guest]

Some Hindus care more about the life of a cow than their fellow man.

 

Human equality (as well as respect for animal-life) should and must be recognized, if we are to consider ourselves spiritual or practioners of Dharma.

 

You can tell us how compassionate you are because you won't hurt a cow, but if you treat your fellow man like crap, because of something as superficial as his birth status, you don't know the first thing about compassion. Ahimsa is not just in what we eat, it is a matter of the heart as well.

 

Ahimsa begins and ends with one word: compassion!

[Guest guest]

 

Maybe you have this backwards attitude because you are born into a family of Brahmins, Mr Sharma and you don't like to see you postition challenged by others. Who needs Christian and Muslim missionaries when Brahmins like you will kill Hinduism much quicker than anything else?

 

 

Quit your Brahmin hating attitude! See if you can make your points without these vast presumption on Brahmins, Mr 2, and all this humbug about position being challenged. Who needs Christian and Muslim missionaries when people like you are as deliberate in pressing down such ignorant and prejudiced ideas down your fellow Hindus' throats!

 

For a balanced and more sensible approach, my fellow Hindus, please read: The Caste System: A Monograph, by Swami Harshananda of the Ramakrishna Order.

[Guest guest]

What a controverisal topic!!!!!

Whatever one has to say will be opposed by somebody else. The topic of caste system itself is an active volcano, eh?

 

Let me summarize the position.

 

1. Non Hindus accuse Hinduism of being racists due to the existance of the varna system.

2. A meek defence of the varna system being a man made creation is offered by some Hindus.

3. Another new excuse of varna system being unrelated to heredity is offered by some new traditions, with no basis.( on the basis of some physical quality as if there were ever a need to create groups in such a case)

4. All rishis and Acharyas of the land who are held to be from genuine sampradayas have upheld the varna system.

5. Those who are frustrated accuse others of bigotry and racism and even insult Acharyas. (Adi Shankara has been unwarrantly targetted on this thread but all Acharyas have had the same position on this issue)

6. The so called untouchability has no place in Hinduism, and no evidence of it. So all discussions should be with respect to only the four orders.

7. There is so much hatred towards Brahmins when Brahmins of today are generally no longer oppressing anybody else in this name. The so called backward caste enjoy all privileges and no longer want to denounce the system, and have ensured that varna system will last for ever. If Brahmins regain their old position in future, they will introduce reservation for themselves again, and do tit for tat. Spite never pays off.

 

 

So what is the deal:

 

1. The varna system is hereditary only as preached by Hinduism. Any other position has no scriptural basis or proof in day to day life. The existance of the gotra is ample proof for it. Those who are thinking otherwise for saving Hinduism are actually misleading others.

 

2. Even in Mahabaratha we can see instances of the virtuos Pandavas calling Karna as suta-putra and Drona cutting the thumb of Ekalavya. So this is nothing new. varna system is as old as Hinduism.

 

2. The hereditary system is not based on race or skin color or any discrimination, but a natural law of nature.(genetic law)

 

3. It is based on blood group typing with O=Brahmin, A = Kshatriya, B= Vaisya, AB = Sudra. Use your brains please and dont criticize our rishis.

 

Any justification for the above claim? Yes.

 

1. There are exactly four varna systems and exactly four major blood groups.

2. The blood groups are not mutually compatible and some are even deadly for the other. Not all humans are the same and are compatible with each other.

3. The all knowing rishis who knew about astral bodies and the atman are supposed to be knowing about blood groups isn't it?

4. The O group person may die on receiving blood from AB donor, and if our scheme is correct, Sudra is indeed incompatible with Brahmin.

5. Blood group is only an indicator of incompatibility due to Karmic reasons, and not the real issue. So if there were so many repercussions at the level of physical body, isn't it natural to assume that there can be implications at the astral body and more importantly spiirtual growth?

6. The blood group type being clarified as the indicator of many things including of Karmic origin, is it fallacious to think that all people are not equally qualified for practising certain aspects of religion?

7. I checked with the blood typing of 300 Brahmins, and more than 75% of them have O blood. ( more evidence needed to confirm the findings)

8. Physical and mental qualities may be related to the blood group, and certain blood groups may predispose one to specific diseases. This is well known but not well researched.

9. The marriage between incompatible groups may lead to still borns or lead to children with severe health problems. Only research can tell us.

10. There is more to genetics and heredity than we ever care about, and it is the basis of the varna system.

11. Bllood group inheritance itself is hereditary and not random. AB and AB can never produce O, while O and O can produce only O. ( Sudras can never procreate Brahmins while Brahmins can never give rise to a non Brahmin). 29 subtypes types of blood groups are known now and may correspond to many levels of inter-breeding. Mahabaratha mentions 14 types of kshatriyas.

 

12. The varna system is mainly aimed at the level of marriage and sanctioning marraige only of people with compatible blood, and also enabling the spiritual growth of all in accordance with their Karma. That is also the basis of arranged marriage over love marriage.

 

13. When we have deviated from this dharma, the world is now full of new genetic diseases with no known cures.

 

LET US NOT DILUTE ANYTHING WITHOUT RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE. PLEASE TRY TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS IF YOU ARE INTERESTED. DOCTORS CAN CERTAINLY ASSIST IN VERIFYING THIS HYPOTHESIS. LET US NOT HATE ANY BRAHMIN OR SUDRA DUE TO PREJUDICE AND MISCONCEPTION. LET US WORK TO DECODE THE TRUTH OF THE VARNA SYSTEM. IF WE FIND NO SOLID CORRESPONDENCE WE CAN ABOLISH THIS SYSTEM.

[Guest guest]

Read about ashwamedha yagna in brief at : india-forum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=157&st=180

 

any way here are the contents in brief:

 

A lost Vedic ritual is brought alive

 

Hyderabad: The ancient ritual of Ashwamedha Yagam, conducted by emperors to extend their domains, will be resurrected in Hyderabad on December 11. In the modern age, however, the ritual is intended to extend the domain of peace and tranquillity across the world. The Hyderabad-based Aananda Aashramam will conduct the Ashwamedha Yagam and will invite people of all religions to take part in it and offer prayers for the well-being of humanity.

 

It was a popular Vedic ritual in ancient India but became rare in the last 2,000 years. “It is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,” said Dr P.V. Sesha Sai, the yaga kartha or organiser. Ashwamedha Yagam is of two kinds — Snarta Ashwamedha Yagam and Srouta Ashwamedha Yagam. Kings used to perform Srouta Yagam and would sacrifice a horse at the end of the ritual. The Snarta Yagam was performed by saints without animal sacrifice.

 

“We are going to observe the Snarta variety in Hyderabad, reviving a tradition which became extinct long ago,” said Dr Sesha Sai. It is a Vedic ritual which has a deeply secular and political dimensions. The role of the priest is not as prominent as in other rituals. The sankalpa for the yagam took place in the month of Maha Maghi (February). “We have selected a bright day of Margasira maas coupled with Sunday and Revati Star to hold the yagam,” said Dr Sai. “It will be on for eight days.”

 

Jagadguru Sri Ganeshananda Bharathi Maha-swami will bless the yagam which will be performed as per Vedic traditions. Along with Ashwamedha Yagam, priests will also conduct other yagams. Individuals aspiring for “political prosperity” can take part in Sri Sowra Yagam. Sri Varuna Yagam will bring timely rains and Sri Runa Vimochana Pasupatam will help a person escape from debt traps.

 

The priests will also conduct Sri Kanya Pasupatam (for marriage), Sri Kubera Pasupatam (for business success), Sri Mrutyunjaya Homam (for long life), and Sri Navagraha Pasupatam (for relief from bad times) along with the main yagam. Dr Sesha Sai said that there was a clear difference between Ashwamedha (horse sacrifice) which is held as an outward rite and the one held as an “inward” one.

The external rite was performed by kings.

 

However, the horse is also the symbol for life-energy inside the human being and in the cosmos. Medha means “offering” as well as “intelligence”. In the “inward rite”, Ashwamedha is an offering of the life force to the deity.

 

As part of the ritual, 108 couples, 108 students, 108 housewives and 108 girls will be honoured. In tune with the times, a Sarva Dharma Sammelan will also be held.

The yagam will be held in about 100 acres of land and 300 Vedic scholars will participate in it. And of course, horses will be very much part of the ritual.