Path of self enquiry - Prof Anil Kumar

[Guest guest]

The Sai Pearls Talk Given by Anil Kumar

“Sai Pearls of Wisdom”

Part 22

November 11th, 2003

 

OM… OM… OM…

Sai Ram

With Pranams at the Lotus Feet of Bhagavan,

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Welcome back to Sai Pearls of Wisdom session. After a gap of about six months,

we are meeting here for the first time. I am extremely happy and grateful to

Swami for having made the Sai Pearls quite popular. People have been browsing

their computers and they have been expressing their satisfaction about it. As

the matter is not accessible to everybody and as everyone is quite anxious to

know what is being transacted there on the veranda between Swami and the

students, we are catching up with this information day-by-day. I thank all of

you for the keen interest you have been showing, and for the encouragement that

you have been giving me from time-to-time to continue this project.

We commence from the month of August 2003. Swami returned here in the month of

July, around the 9th. The sessions started only in the month of August, because

in earlier periods, as you know, it was not possible for us to interact with

Him. It was not until the month of August that He preferred to spend some time

with us. I want to bring to your attention a few of the important points that

happened on 11th of August 2003.

Symposium for School Teachers

Around that time, under the auspices of Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher

Learning, we had a symposium for school teachers. As you know, Sri Sathya Sai

Institute of Higher Learning has been judged the best in the country, and the

University Grants Commission requested Sri Sathya Sai University to conduct

some orientation courses for school teachers, so that they will apply values in

their teaching, as well as in practice. So, we had a symposium for teachers from

different schools, and around 50 of them were selected for the first batch.

Professors from Sathya Sai University were given topics, and each one was to

deal with a particular topic. I should say without the least bit of

exaggeration that the entire symposium went on very, very well, much to the

satisfaction of the organisers and also the participants.

It is in that connection that a conversation took place that evening, on 11th of

August 2003. As it was a long time since we had Bhagavan in our midst, naturally

we were thrilled. We were very much excited to find Him sitting on the chair and

talking to every one of us, because for a couple of months we were away from Him

physically. Bhagavan was equally happy to talk to us that day, and He exceeded

even bhajan time, which rarely happens. As bhajan time is nearing, He usually

winds up the talk, and proceeds towards the bhajan hall. But this time, the

conversation went on, meaning we also took some bhajan session time. It speaks

of the eagerness of the students and the Love of Bhagavan.

Unity of Religions

Bhagavan started asking us some questions. He looked straight at me and said,

“What was your topic? On what topic did you speak to those teachers?”

I said, “Bhagavan, I spoke on the unity of religions.”

“Oh, I see.” Then Swami put a question “How did you explain this unity? What are

the examples that you have given in support of your topic?”

I answered this way: “Bhagavan, Your discourses come to my rescue every time.

All the valuable things that I hear and the pearls that I collect from Your

Lotus Feet are of immense value to me. I make use of that literature.”

And then I started to tell Swami like this: “Bhagavan, I explained the six major

religions on the basis of values, not on the basis of rituals. Religions differ

so far as rituals are concerned. But religions are united and religions are in

harmony when we take spirituality into consideration. If you go by rituals, we

are divided. If you think of spirituality, we stand united.” That’s what I

said.

“For instance, Swami, Truth, Righteousness, Peace, Love, Non-violence -- all the

values that You talk to us about are common to all religions. Therefore, when we

are value-based, we will be able to arrive at unity”. That is what I said.

“Swami, I recalled what You said in this line, and I shared it with those

teachers on that day.”

Swami did not leave me at that stage.

Further He said, “What are the religions that you spoke on?”

“Swami, the six major religions.”

“What are they?”

“Yes, these are the following six major religions followed in this country:

Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity, Islam and Sikhism.”

"Gold is Same but Jewels are Many”

Then Swami said, “OK, how did you proceed?”

Then I said, “Swami, I made three points: first, the important points of each of

these six religions. Second point was about the basic values like Truth,

Righteousness, Non-violence, Peace and Love, and what each religion has got to

say on these values. Third, I told of Bhagavan’s views on each of these

religions. I made in a tabular form, Swami, with the principles first. Next, I

talked about these values and what they tell, and finally Swami’s views on

these religions.”

Well, I could find an expression of satisfaction on His face. (Laughter)

Then, however, Bhagavan asked, “What are the examples you have given to tell

them that unity of religions is necessary? How could you prove that there is

unity?”

I said, “Swami, I’ve taken an example from Your literature. Gold is same, but

jewels are many. Flowers are many, but worship is same. Out of the same clay,

so many pots are made. Goal is one, though paths are many. Sky is one, though

stars are many. You have given a number of examples, Swami, and I cited all of

them. They seem to have been convinced.”

Then Swami put a very pertinent question. “Where have you learned this unity of religions?”

“Swami, I must admit I have learned this unity after coming to You.”

“Oh, how could you learn?” (Laughter) “You say you have learned unity of

religions after coming to Me. How did you learn?”

 

“I Have Learned it Here”

I said, “Swami, the place itself conveys sufficient message. As we come to this

place, we come across Sri Sathya Sai Hill View Stadium, where we have statues

of Krishna, Lord Shiva, Jesus Christ, Guru Nanak, Lord Buddha. All these

statues, each 20 to 30 feet high, speak of the unity of religions.

Passing by, we come across

Chaitanya Jyothi Museum, which speaks of the unity of religions through charts

and computer presentations. And then we go into Prashanthi Nilayam. There is

the Sarva Dharma Stupa, which is a symbol of unity of all religions. You must

have seen it behind the Poornachandra Auditorium. That pillar with a lotus

flower is a symbol of the unity of religions. Important points of all the

religions are carved on each side of its foundation wall.

As we go into Poornachandra Auditorium, we find all these things embossed on the

wall: There is Christ surrounded by sheep, the Guru Granth, the Holy Book of

Sikhism, the Holy Fire of Zoroastra, and Lord Krishna talking to Arjuna. The

Poornachandra Auditorium also speaks of unity of religions. This place itself

has got a message based on the unity of religions. I have learned it here only,

Swami.” That’s what I said.

“How Diversity Has Come Out of This”

And then, Swami said, “All right, you say unity is there. Explain how diversity

has come out of this.” Well, all the answers were exhausted. I had to lift both

of my hands in helplessness. Then, there was no other alternative than to

surrender to the Lotus Feet.

Then Swami started speaking on this topic: “Look, you have eyes, ears, hands and

legs. All these limbs of the body belong to you only. Limbs and organs are many,

but they belong to you, is it not? Similarly, all these religions are like

limbs. They all speak about the same God. That is unity.” That’s what Bhagavan

has said.

“And further, if you know one person clearly, you will be able to know everybody

else. Here is a simple example. Every medical student studies the parts of a

single person. The same parts are present everywhere. The eye structure of Me

is same as the eye structure of you. The ear structure of Me is same as the ear

structure of you as well. Similarly, if you know one, you will know everyone.

That is what unity is.” That is what Bhagavan has said.

Therefore, though there are so many bulbs illumining and shedding light, the

brilliant current behind is one and the same. That’s how you can certainly

establish unity, as Bhagavan has said.

“How to Achieve Unity?”

“Swami, all right! A simple question.”

Swami said, “What is it?”

“Swami, how do we achieve unity? I have known unity theoretically. Diversity is

what I see. But, how do we achieve unity? How do we attain unity? That’s my

question.”

And Bhagavan said, “That principle which is not seen is responsible for the

functioning of the whole of the body that you see. The hands that you see work

because of Divinity. The legs walk because of Divinity. Eyes see because of

Divinity. So, these limbs are seen, but the Divinity is unseen. When you think

of that unseen, single principle of Divinity, naturally you can attain unity.”

We are not able to understand unity because our vision, our understanding, is

divided so we don’t think of the main source. If we think of the main source,

naturally we’ll attain unity. That’s what Bhagavan has said.

Then I made one comment, because on every occasion we want to exhibit our

scholarship or knowledge in a foolish way, and get into a problem. That’s what

happens, particularly with Swami. One has to be very careful. But I am known

for these things, putting questions every time so I can extract some

information from Swami that will be useful to everybody. At times, the

questions may look quite silly, out of context and irrelevant. But the matter

that I get from Swami thereafter will be of immense value to everybody.

The Secret of Education

Now I said, “There is one character in Bhagavatha by name Prahlada. This boy

Prahlada said to his father, “Oh father, I could know the marma (Sanskrit word,

meaning ‘secret’ or ‘mystery’) of the whole knowledge.”

Baba caught hold of my neck now! Then He said, “What is the meaning of marma?”

I said, “Swami, ‘essence’.” Prahlada said he could know the marma of education,

meaning he could know the essence of education.

Baba said, “No. It is not essence. It is a secret. Marma means the secret of

education.” And then He asked me, “Oh I see, now tell me the secret of

education.” (Laughter)

What shall I say? “Swami, I don’t know anything else other than what I remember.

I don’t know anything else other than what You said, which I happened to hear

and translate. What can I do, Swami?”

He said, “Nothing wrong. Tell what you know. Come on!”

He insisted that I should say. “All right. Swami, I will quote Your own poem.

One time You said: ‘The essence of all sacred texts all over the world can be

summarised in a single sentence. This is the secret of education. What is that?

 

 

The same Self is present in everybody.

The Self in you is the same as the Self in everyone.

 

That is the secret of education.’ O Swami, so simple!”

Then further Swami commented, ”Correct! Why do you hesitate to tell what you

know? Why are you afraid to tell that which you feel correct? You have given

the correct answer.”

“Path to Unity is Self-Enquiry”

Then Swami said, “What did you have in the college?”

“Swami, we had a symposium in the college.”

Now He started asking questions. “What is a symposium?”

“Swami, a symposium is a process, a phenomenon, where different perspectives,

different viewpoints on a single topic are projected by different participants.

The theme is only one. On a single theme, people present different viewpoints,

different aspects.”

Swami said, “No, you are wrong. Yes, good, good.” (Laughter)

“Then Swami, what else is symposium?”

Then Swami said, “You are wrong. Symposium is not division. You said there are

different points on the same topic. You are wrong. Division is not symposium.

Union is symposium. S-y-m means ‘union’. ‘Symposium’ means where people unite.

It is not, as you said, where they divide.

(Laughter) So, you are wrong. They unite.”

“Oh I see, Swami, all right.” That’s what Bhagavan said.

“Self-Enquiry is the Only Way to Attain Unity"

“Swami, what should I do? What practice should I follow to experience this

spirit of unity?” Then I just gave some more points for Swami to speak on, to

provoke Him, (Laughter) and to get some ‘bangings’ in turn.

“Swami, people say that

japa or penance, dhyana or meditation,

puja or worship, and prayer are different paths, different spiritual exercises,

done to attain unity. Which one should I follow? “

Swami said “None of them.”

(Laughter)

“None of them?”

“Yes.”

“Swami, so what should I do now?” (Laughter)

Baba said, “Enquiry, the path of enquiry: Put to your self the question, ‘Who am

I?’ I am not the body, I am not the mind, and I am not the intellect. I am the

Self.’ Self-enquiry is the only path to attain unity.”

But I didn’t want to keep quiet at that stage. “So, Swami, do You mean to say

that meditation is useless? Do You mean to say that worship is a

fit-for-nothing process? So, shall I stop all these things?”

Then Baba said, “No. These are all the processes that will make you fit enough

to enquire within yourself.”

I think I am clear. By meditation, your mind will develop concentration, which

will help you to make Self-enquiry. By worship, your mind becomes pure, fit

enough for Self-enquiry. So all the paths we are adopting make the ground

ready, make the mind ready, to turn inward and proceed along the path of

enquiry. You see that is the uniqueness of Baba. He says one thing; at the same

time, he does not reject the other thing. They are all necessary to have bliss.

That is Bhagavan Baba.

“Bhakti and Karma are Present in the Path of Wisdom”

So, this Self-enquiry is very necessary. But for that, meditation and bhajan are

all necessary. It makes you fit enough, and it equips you.

“Swami, excellent!” And then, “Swami, I have got one more question.”

“What is it?”

“Swami, people say that the path of enquiry is the path of wisdom, jnana, which

is superior or most high. It is the highest level of spirituality. So, is it

enough if I proceed in that direction, because it is the highest level? It’s a

non-stop air flight. Why change over in Bombay or Frankfurt? It’s not

necessary. Go straight! So, Swami shall I proceed along the path of enquiry,

which is the path of jnana yoga, straightaway? People say that it is most

superior.”

Baba said, “No, you are wrong again. Even in the path of wisdom, action or karma

is present. There is also present bhakthi or devotion. Even in the path of

wisdom, these two are there.”

Mere wisdom is only the collection of facts, knowledge, if there is no action.

Mere wisdom makes you arrogant if there is no devotion. So, wisdom will find

its fulfillment, wisdom will find its fructification, only if coupled with

action and devotion. That’s what Bhagavan has said.

“There is nothing like a Higher or Lower Level in Spirituality”

Anyway, I wanted to put another question. “Swami, excuse me for putting this

question. Would You please let me know what is the best method in spiritual

practice or sadhana? What is the most suitable way? Which is higher than the

others?” (Because we want to be high in life, you know, so I asked, “Which is

superior? Please let me know.”)

Baba said, “Remember always that there is nothing like one being superior or the

other being inferior in spirituality. There is nothing like a higher level and a

lower level. The higher and lower are only competitive, comparative words used

in worldly parlance or in a worldly sense. But in spirituality, there is

nothing like superior or inferior. There is nothing like higher level and lower

level. Everything is the same. That’s what you have to understand.”

“Swami, how am I to know? I think I am a bit higher than others (Laughter)

because I am sitting on a chair.” (Laughter)

Now Baba said, “If you stand in water knee-deep, you can see and talk to

everybody. If you are in water neck-deep, you can still talk to everybody. If

you drown yourself totally, you cannot communicate anything to anybody.

(Laughter) Similarly, the ultimate experience is silence. So long as you speak

of superior and inferior, you have not got anything. When you remain silent,

when you remain speechless, that is the attainment of unity. Harmony is

oneness, without any kind of comparison.” That’s what Bhagavan has said.

“After Self-Enquiry, What am I Going to Become?”

“Then another question, Swami.”

“Yes, what is it?”

“Swami, it’s very good. After Self-enquiry, after realising the Self, what is

going to happen to me? (Laughter) After getting MSc., what will happen? You’ll

become a lecturer. After getting Ph.D., what will happen? You’ll become a

professor. So similarly, after Self-enquiry, what is going to happen to me?

What am I going to become after this?”

Baba laughed and said, “You are not going to become anything. (Laughter). There

is nothing to become also.” (Laughter)

“Oh I see. Swami, how?”

Baba said, “It seems that a parrot made up of sugar candy wanted to know the

depth of the ocean. So, this parrot, which was made up of sugar, went close to

the ocean and dove into the ocean to search how deep it was. In the meantime,

while searching, it got dissolved. Similarly, in the process of Self-enquiry,

you are lost; you are gone. You become one with the vast universe. You are one

with the infinite. You are one with the cosmos. You are not separate anymore to

say that, ‘I got this, I got that; I became this, I became that.’ So, those who

say, ‘I got this, I became that’ have not got anything other than ignorance.”

We have got to understand that very clearly.

“How can the Finite Know the Infinite?”

And then I asked, “Swami, one question please. Pardon me, Swami. I know that

bhajan time is fast approaching, but I don’t know whether I would get a chance

to put this question again. So let me seize this opportunity.” (Laughter)

“Swami, the Self is infinite. I am finite. Divinity is so vast, unlimited. I am

limited. How can the limited know the unlimited? How can the finite know the

infinite? Is that possible, Swami? How?”

Baba said, “It is only the limited that can know the limitless. It is only the

finite that can know the infinite, because there is no question of the infinite

knowing the infinite. Infinity is one. Therefore, your mind is finite, while

Self is infinite. With the help of the mind which is finite or limited, you

should be able to know the infinite and limitless.”

So with the help of the limited, you can know the unlimited. The mind, which is

limited, should make you experience the Self, which is infinite. That’s what

Bhagavan said.

“Vibration and Inner Voice”

“Swami, these days many people are using two important words, which I don’t

understand, nor find any sense in. But I cannot dismiss those two words openly

because I don’t want them to think that I am ignorant of these things. At least

I should pretend that I am a wise man, though it may not be so in reality. The

meaning and experience of these words I don’t have. Would you please explain

what they are, Swami?”

Swami said, “What are those two words? Tell me.”

“One is ‘vibration’. The second is ‘inner voice’. People speak of these two

words, vibration and inner voice. I want to know, Swami, is this inner voice

present in everybody, or is it the sole property of a few people?”

Some people say, “Swami told me this by an inner voice.”

“Why does He not tell me? Why should He tell you? Do you think that you only

have inner voice and I have no inner voice, only outer noise? What do you

mean?” Is inner voice common to everybody or the monopoly of a few?

And we find people changing their places. Why? “I am not getting good vibrations.”

(Laughter)

“Oh I see. When you are feeling those vibrations, how is it that I don’t feel?

So, you have vibrations and I am vibration-less. So, you are a master of inner

voice and I have much less inner voice. What is all this, Swami? I don’t

understand. Please kindly explain what it meant.”

Swami explained in a simple way. I want you to really understand and appreciate

it because nobody has ever given this kind of answer.

He said that the body has senses. This is the first level, and what we call

‘conscious’. ‘Conscious’ means the body with senses. There is Divinity in every

one of us. The individual soul is what you call ‘conscience’. Now Baba says the

connecting link between ‘conscious’ and ‘conscience’ is vibration. So,

vibration arises at the meeting point between ‘conscious’ and ‘conscience’,

meaning between the body and the individual soul. There you have this

vibration.

“Then, inner voice, Swami?”

“Wait, first you understand this.”

“Swami, I understand. Then, what is inner voice?”

“The individual soul is conscience, OK? While the cosmic soul, the universal

soul is ‘Consciousness’. The connecting link between ‘conscience’ and

‘Consciousness’ is the inner voice.”

“Oh, then why is there no inner voice in my case? How shall I understand that?”

Bhagavan said, “You have not connected the individual soul with the universal Soul.”

“How, Swami?”

“You have a tumbler full of water. All right. Throw it out! Pour the tumbler

full of water into the ocean. What will happen? This water and the ocean water

will become one. So similarly, when the individual soul, the conscience, is one

with the universal Soul, Consciousness, in that unity, you hear the inner voice.

Because you have limited yourself, like the water in the tumbler, you have

remained at the conscience level. You have not gone to the Consciousness level.

Therefore, you are not able to listen to the inner voice. Am I clear? You don’t

feel the vibration because you have not connected the conscious, the body, with

the conscience, the individual self.”

“There is Nothing Like Good and Bad.”

“Swami, fantastic! Nobody gave this kind of interpretation till now. Then Swami,

what about certain things being branded good and other things being branded bad?

People say that this is bad, while that is good. But what is good at one time is

bad later. (Laughter) What is bad now is good later. What am I to do? Good and

bad are relative. You cannot say that this is totally bad, and that is totally

good. Who am I to say that?”

Then Swami said, ”There is nothing like good and bad. Why? Good and bad are the

factors that are decided or judged by the mind. It is the mind that decides; it

is the mind that distinguishes; it is the mind that differentiates; and it is

the mind that divides the good and the bad. But spirituality is beyond the

mind. It is transcendental. At that stage, there is nothing like good and bad.”

 

“So, Swami, can we have a free life now? (Laughter) There’s nothing like good

and bad now. (Laughter) So, we can have a free, jolly life.”

“No.” (Laughter)

“Why?”

“Because you have not transcended your mind. You have not gone beyond the mind.

Your mind is full of desires, enough for ten lives to come! And you are so

egoistic because of your mind; you are so proud because of your mind; you are

so possessive because of your mind; you are so attached because of your mind.

Lust, love, greed, ego, anger -- these are all the qualities of the mind. So,

you operate at the level of the mind. When you operate at the level of the

mind, you’ve got good and bad. You must follow that. When you have transcended

mind, this does not apply.”

“How, Swami?”

“Jesus Christ spoke to good people and sinners also. So, to Jesus Christ, there

is nothing like a saint and a sinner. Both are the same, because he has gone

beyond the state of the mind.” So, that’s the example Bhagavan has given.

“Do Unto others as you would like them to do unto you”

Further, Swami said, “Whatever may be the vibration, whatever may be the inner

voice, I want you all to remember one point: That which hurts you will hurt

anybody. That which makes you happy will make everybody equally happy.”

So considering that which is painful, I must know that it is equally painful to

everybody. That which gives me pleasure and bliss will make anybody blissful

and happy. Therefore, do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.

Therefore, I should treat others in the same way as I would like to be treated.

With that, that day’s session concluded, which happened to be the 11th of

August.

“Our All-Knowing God”

Now, this conversation refers to the 12th of August. Swami came that evening and

sat on the chair and started enquiring, “How are you?” And then, suddenly, Swami

looked at a boy and said, “How is your mother?”

The boy said, ”Swami, she is undergoing treatment.”

Baba immediately remarked, “That treatment is not correct. She is suffering from

a kidney problem, which is not diagnosed by the doctors. I will give you

vibhuthi prasadam now. Send it to her and that will solve the problem.”

My friends, this is a miracle that I want to share with you. Because of the

omniscience of our Bhagavan, though the boy never said that his mother was

sick, Swami looked at him, saying, “Come here. How is your mother?”

The boy did not have a seat in the front row. He was far behind. That is our

all-knowing God. We are in the company of the all-knowing, all-powerful God.

Further, Baba said, “Take this vibhuthi with you.” What does it mean? He knows

the cause and the cure. He knows the diagnosis and the treatment. That’s why He

could tell the boy the treatment was wrong. The treatment that the boy’s mother

was undergoing at that time was not right. Therefore, this was a revelation for

everybody.

“Bhagavan is the Singer in Every one of Us"

Then, there were a few boys sitting in the front row belonging to the Music

College. The boys started singing. Sruthi is pitch. One has to adjust the voice

and all those things. Any instrument that you play must be in accordance to our

pitch, right? Sruthi.

Before the boy started singing, He said the exact note and told that fellow who

plays on the harmonium, “That is his wavelength. That is the wavelength of his

voice. Come on, adjust to that.” The boy was surprised. He didn’t start

singing.

Bhagavan told the fellows, “Adjust. This is his pitch. Adjust to that.” Bhagavan

is the singer within every one of us. Bhagavan is the song of life. Bhagavan is

the voice of everyone, so He could say that.

“He is the Divine

Doctor"

This happened on 13th of August 2003. He asked the music boys to sing. They were

singing, and then, from among the four of them, He asked one boy to come close

to Him.

He said, “Your voice is not proper. You are suffering from cough, is it not?”

“Yes Swami. Cough, Swami… problem.”

“I see. Don’t worry.”

By the wave of His hand, Bhagavan materialised tablets. All of us saw it. Not

only me, but also a few hundred boys saw it there, on the dais.

“Take these tablets for two days, thrice a day. You will be free from all the

problems of the throat.”

By the third day, that boy’s voice not only had a total cure, but the voice

improved. It is a metallic voice. So, Swami’s curative measure is not simply a

cure, but an improvement over the past, because He is the Divine Doctor

Himself. That’s what we have seen.

“Why do you Shout Like That?”

This refers to the 5th of August. (Of course, as per the date, I should have

told it earlier. But the content is important.) Swami was coming along the

verandah, before occupying His chair. He looked at me and said, “Why did you

speak loudly there?”

“Swami? Where, Swami?”

“In the lecture this morning -- what a loud voice it is! Do you think all the

people are deaf? Why do you shout like that?” (Laughter)

Then I said, “Swami, I know my weakness. (Laughter) I am trying to bring down my

voice all these years unsuccessfully. (Laughter) Before it was very horrible.

But now (Laughter) I think it is sufficiently moderate.”

“No, no, no. It is still loud.” That’s what Bhagavan said. (Laughter)

But that made me happy. Swami said, “Why are you looking like that?”

I said, “Swami, my voice may be loud and disturbing, but I am happy that You heard my talk.”

(Laughter)

“Religion is Love”

And then Swami started speaking again: “You spoke on the unity of religions, I

understand. What is religion? Do you know that?”

“Swami, religion is a path to reach God.”

He said, “You are wrong, you are wrong!”

“So Swami, what is religion now?” (Laughter)

“Religion is Love. Religion is Love.”

“Oh Swami, is religion Love?”

“Yes. Religion is also called realisation. What have you to realise? That

religion is Love. That’s what you should have said to those teachers.” Bhagavan

said.

“Swami, all right, religion is Love. Then, why are there so many religions? So

many religions are there: Islam, Hinduism, and all that. If there is only one

religion of Love, then why so many? “

Then Baba said, “If you stop arguing, you will experience unity.” (Laughter) The

unity of religion can be experienced by stopping argumentation. That is the only

way. That’s what Bhagavan has said.

And then I said, “Swami, another question. Why different interpretations? There

are Catholics, Protestants, Hindus, Shaivaites, and Vaishnavaites. Why are

there so many interpretations?

Then Swami said, “It is only for arguments. So long as you go by

interpretations, so long you go by these narrow paths, you can never experience

unity.”

“Draw the Best out of the World”

“Swami, I have one doubt.”

“What is it?”

“Swami, people say that Buddhism is atheistic, that Buddhists do not believe in God. Am I right?”

Swami said, “No.

(Laughter) No. What Buddha says is this: You get a message through the senses.

You get a message of the scenario through your eyes. You get the message of

sounds through your ears. So, you get messages from the outer world through the

senses. Is it not right? Therefore, Buddha says, only see what is good. Samyak

drishti. Have good vision. So, let the eyes be windows so that all good will be

taken in. And all that you hear, hear what is good. Samyak Sravanam. Good

listening. So, what Buddhism tells you is to draw the best out of this world

through these senses. It is not that they are non-believers. Don’t say that

they are atheists, no.”

That’s what Bhagavan said, commenting on Buddhism. Actually speaking, we’ll be

very much surprised while listening to Swami from time-to-time because we’ll be

under the impression that we know things. But as we hear Him, we will know that

we do not know. So, my friends, it is absolutely necessary to hear Swami so

that we know what is.

“Adi Shankara Integrated Buddhism and Hinduism”

Then, I would like to draw your attention to certain other important points.

“Swami, history says that Adi Sankara contradicted and condemned Buddhism. Is

that right?”

Those of you who are students of comparative religions must have come to know

and would definitely agree with me, that what Adi Sankara says is just the

opposite of what Buddha said. And some of us are also under the impression that

Sankaracharya condemned outright Buddhism. So that is the question I have put.

Swami said, “No. He has not contradicted him. He has not condemned him.”

“Swami, do You mean to say that he has supported him?”

“No. I did not say that.”

“So, Swami what do You say now?”

Baba says, “He could integrate Hinduism and Buddhism. It is a question of

integration. It is not a question of contradiction. Adi Sankara could take the

spirit of Buddha. Buddha is better explained now. So, it is a question of

integration; it is not a question of contradiction.”

Look here, the point is this. We will never find Bhagavan condemning any

religion. We will never find Bhagavan denying any religion. We will never find

Bhagavan speaking low of any religion. On the other hand, He will take them to

heights, to exalted heights! That is something great.

“Adi Sankara followed the Path of Devotion also”

“Swami, about Adi Sankara, I have got one question.”

Swami said, ”What is it?”

“Adi Sankara stands for non-dualism. Non-dualism is a school of philosophy that

believes in the ancient wisdom, jnana marga, the path of wisdom. Is that true,

Swami?”

Bhagavan immediately said, “The same Adi Sankara wrote a number of songs and

hymns in praise of the Goddess. It means what? He followed the path of devotion

also. So, never say that Adi Sankara supported only wisdom. No. He followed the

path of devotion also. And he has composed the beautiful verse, Bhaja Govindam,

which is based on the principles of devotion.”

And finally He said, ”Why do you argue like that? Understand that one is a

corollary of the other. They are all sequential. A tender fruit gradually

develops into unripe fruit. The unripe fruit slowly turns into a ripe fruit.

So, the ripe fruit of today was unripe yesterday. The unripe fruit yesterday

was a tender fruit earlier. So, one leads to the other. That’s not

contradictory. That you should understand.”

“Thyagaraja had no raga”

And then slowly, students of the Music College started moving to the front. You

know little boys. People fight there to occupy front rows. So, the boys are

jumping to take the front row. I got a feeling, ’Why not ask some questions on

music?’

Slowly I said, “Swami,

raga or tune is very important for music. And there are two very popular

musicians in Andhra Pradesh. One is Thyagaraja. The other composer happened to

be Annamacharya. These are two great singers from this place. Swami, of the

two, who is greater?” (Laughter) Mind…what to do? (Laughter) Mind does not want

to accept things as they are. It wants to judge. It wants to estimate. It wants

to rate. So, my mind is no exception.

Baba said, “Thyagaraja is certainly greater than Annamacharya.”

“Why Swami?”

Please follow me. ‘Tune’ in Sanskrit is called raga. But this Sanskrit word raga

has another meaning also, ‘attachment’. So, raga has two meanings. One is

‘tune’, another ‘attachment’.

Baba said, “Thyagaraja had no raga, no attachment, but only the tune raga, the

music part of it. He is a vairagi, meaning detached. Whereas Annamacharya, the

other popular composer, has got some raga, the attachment with him, although his

ragas, tunes, are quite popular.”

“Swami, what a game You have played with this single word, raga! (Laughter)

Making use of the tune, and also the attachment at the same time! You only can

do it. All cannot do it. “

“Swami, is it that Thyagaraja is great because of his vairagya, detachment?”

Swami said, “Not only that. All his compositions are based on his personal

experience. Each one of his experiences made him compose a song. Therefore,

they have become a legend, epoch-making. That’s why Thyagaraja is so great.”

“All are One”

“I know that time is up, Swami. I’ve got one more question. People speak of so

many things like mind, intellect, ego, inner sense, and so on. Where are they?

If you cut the body, where is ego? You don’t see it in the laboratory. In the

operation theatre, if you cut the body, where is intellect? You cannot show it.

Where is the mind? Where is the ego? You cannot show them. Where are they? What

are they?”

Baba said, “All are one, actually. When you think, you call it the mind. When

you decide, it is called intellect. When you feel, it is called chittha. When

you say, ‘this is mine’, when you introduce yourself as ‘I’, it is ego,

ahamkara. So, ahamkara is ego, I-ness.

Chittha is feeling, passion. Manas is mind, thinking.

Buddhi is intellect, decision-making. All are same. Depending upon the roles

they perform, they are given different names.”

“Kingdom of Heaven is in Our Heart”

Now I take you to the 15th of August 2003. It happened to be the Independence

Day of India, which is followed all over the country.

There at the college, we had our own function, hoisted the flag, received sweets

and started running to have Bhagavan’s darshan. We came, and the people said

that darshan was over. That happens even now. What shall I do? But somehow I am

sure that Swami will not disappoint us. “All right, please be seated. Let us

see. Until arathi, let us wait to see whether God is going to come or not.”

Please believe me, Swami came!

To the best of my knowledge and experience, Swami never speaks politics. He

never supports any single political party because all party leaders come to

Him. All need His blessings; all are His children. So there is nothing

Republican Party or Democratic Party. Both are His children.

But on a personal note, I can tell you that I begin my day by reading the daily

newspaper. My head is full of politics. I am in the habit of reading the paper.

Yes, I read it thoroughly so I know what’s happening everywhere. However, I am

trying to corner Bhagavan, and a number of times I made an attempt to make Him

speak on politics. Well, I failed utterly.

He just said, “Hmmm…I see. Hmmm…good, I see.” That’s all. No comment.

“Swami, in that State, this is happening?”

“Uh huh…good.”

“Swami here is that...”

“Hmm huh…good.”

My idea is to corner Him somehow or other, and see what He has to say on this

point. No. Why? Bhagavan speaks of democracy in a different sense. Equality is

not in terms of the exercise of franchise or voting. It is equality of

humanity. It is equanimity of the mind. Bhagavan speaks of democracy in terms

of sentiments and feelings and ideology. Bhagavan refers to the ‘kingdom of

heaven’. Where is the kingdom of heaven? It is in our heart.

“Seek ye the kingdom of heaven and everything shall be added unto you,” says the

Holy Bible. Where is the ‘kingdom of heaven’? It is in our heart. Bhagavan wants

you to be the ‘king of your own kingdom’. But we are slaves. We want to be

democratic, but we don’t have equal-mindedness. We don’t have the spirit of

equality. All this is only for political purposes. So, it is my foolishness to

put questions on politics. Well, I could not do it.

“Be Independent to be a Master”

Anyhow I said, “Swami, do You like political leaders like Tilak and Bose,

freedom fighters who struggled for the independence of this country?”

Now He could not control Himself. “Yes. Why, Anil Kumar, I know what you want!” (Laughter)

“Now I will tell you in a simple sentence: Split the word ‘independence’: in –

dependence. When you are ‘in dependence’, you are a slave. When you are

‘independent’, you are a master. So, be independent to be a master. But if you

are in dependence, you are a slave.”

“Swami, very good, very good. I am extremely happy.”

Being a dependent, you have to look for others’ help every moment for

everything. So, for any individual, for any institution, for any nation,

independence is important.

All right, there were still five minutes more before bhajan time. Having failed

all earlier attempts, I could get only one sentence from Him about dependence

and independence. OK.

But still, “Swami!”

“Huh… yes?”

“It seems in Your younger days, You have composed a few songs in praise of this

country. You have composed patriotic songs at a young age.”

He said, “So what?”

(Laughter)

“Swami, roughly how old were You at that time?”

Do you know what Baba said? “My age at that time? You say in My younger days?

How can I say? I am ageless. How can I say My age? I am eternal.”

Though my intention is to drag Him into the political field, He has taken me to

spiritual heights. He has taken me to spiritual heights by revealing that He is

beyond time and space.

So, conversation with Swami is not only a matter of pleasure and revelation, but

at the same time, it is quite risky and challenging. But it’s worth taking the

risk, because we will be benefited ultimately.

That’s all that has happened during the month of August.

Anil Kumar closed the talk with the bhajan, “Govinda Gopala Hey Nandalala”.

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

Thank you very much. Tomorrow again we will meet at the same time. Good night! (Audience) Sai Ram!

Hari Om!

 

http://www.freewebs.com/sairama/anilkumar/pearls-22.htm