Guest guest Report post Posted September 8, 2004 ramanuja, TCA Venkatesan <vtca> wrote: > Dear Sri Vishnu, > > The apologies were for making you think that I did not > want to continue the discussion :-). > > Now, looking at the chUrnai 92 in Mumukshuppadi - you > are right. There is no explicit use of sEshatvam here. > But it does talk of destroying something - 'azhikkum > pOdhu'. If you check back, you see that chUrnai 89 > states that nama: talks about the bhagavat and > bhAgavata sEshatvam. As a continuation, the 92nd > chUrnai talks about the destruction of this sEshatvam. > Mamunigal's vyakhyanam does explicitly state that > 'iththalaiyil sEshathvaththai azhikkum pOdhu'. Dear Sriman Venkatesan, I think we have to interpret Manavalamamunigal's word SEshatvam as SEshatva bhAvam i.e. the feeling that we are SEsham on our own as he further explains 'nam sEshathvaththai nAm nOkka vENum'. Dasan Vishnu > > One of the commenatries I have for Mumukshuppadi > states that what is being destroyed is the nature of > servitude ('adimai' - 'AtmAvidaththinil uLLa adimaiyai > azhikkum pOdhu'). Mamunigal's vyakhyanam states that > the soul should not profess naiccyam at this time > thinking 'nam sEshathvaththai nAm nOkka vENum'. The > commentary states this as 'nam adimaith thanmaiyai > nAm kAththuk koLLa vENum'. > > In explaining chUrnai 93, Mamunigal also uses the > phrase 'sEshatvamE AtmAvukku svarUpam'. Here it is > used to answer the question whether a soul would do > something to prevent His joy. The answer being that, > it is the same sEshatvam which is the nature of the > soul that also causes the soul to behave in this > fashion. > > As you can see, these commenatries do explicitly state > that sEshatvam is destroyed and that it is used in the > sense of being a slave to the Lord. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama: Dear Vishnu & other devotees, Humble praNAms to all. I have forgotten the question itself with which this thread started! BTW, are there rAjasic and tAmasic ahankAram(like sAthvik)??? Just curious to know:-) That's all. I thought(!!! I could be wrong but refer to SVB:160-168) sEShatva(ananyArha) and pAratantrya go hand in hand. Just as "sEShatva" has to be kept suppressed if it hampers the Lord's pleasure, the other attribute "pAratantrya" should not also be allowed to damp/lower the Lord's spirits. If the jIvAthma/subject is unresponsive and behaves like a wood(in the name of dependence), it will certainly divert/detract from the Lord's pleasure and thus becomes an evil although "pAratantrya"(in the usual context) is the anti-thesis of conceit and arrogance. When Srirama,after Ravana was overthrown,wanted to see Sita, straight from her captivity(as she was in her internment),Sita appeared before the Lord after a refreshing bath! This literally made Srirama frown on her "snAnam roSha janakam". Again refer to SVB:71-72. pAratantrya will eliminate self- effort, while sEShatva self-delight and self-enjoyment, provided these two fundamental characteristics,which mark the essential nature of the individual soul, are fully grasped and lived upto. Then these two can be turned towards selfless service, rendered unto the Lord, solely for His pleasure, with no tinge of personal egoism. All errors in understanding SVB are mine. If a number greater than Infinity exists, then "that many" obeisances(of mine) to srI piLLai lOkAcArya. He blows my mind. I feel every aphorism (sUtra) of SVB is a PhD topic. Such is the greatness of srI piLLai lOkAcArya. Credit also goes to the devotees Sri Parthasarathy and Sri vanamamali Padmanabhan. Plus, Sri Sridhar Srinivasan has already nicely explained the position of sEShatva-pAratantrya. AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam dAsAnu dAsI NC Nappinnai > Respected Swami, > > How will we discuss, if we keep apologizing, saying our posts > are "blabberings" and frequently writing "forgive"? May be > some "sAttvika ahankAram" is needed:) > > All of us, including self, use words like SEshatvam, kainkaryam etc. > interchangeably. However, when it comes to SEshatvam vs pAratantryam, > we need to go into what the terms originally mean. > > I referred to Manavala MamunigaL's commentary for mumukshuppadi and > explanation of Sriman T.K.Gopaplacharya Swami. In that, Sriman T.K. > swami defines what is SEshatvam. He says it is remaining as bhOgyam > for PerumAL, like pushpam, chandanam etc. > > PirAtti's and other dEvIs' SEshatvam to PerumAL is explained in SrI > guNa ratna kOSam of Bhattar in similar terms (bhOgyA vAmapi > nAntarIyakatayA pushpAngarAgai: samam...) > > Dasanudasan > Vishnu Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 11, 2004 > Sri: > Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: > Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama: dear Ms Nappinnai, namskArams. What is sAttvikam? If we look into its meaning, we will understand whether sAttvika and other two ahankArams are there. > > Dear Vishnu & other devotees, > > Humble praNAms to all. I have forgotten the question > itself with which this thread started! BTW, are there rAjasic and > tAmasic ahankAram(like sAthvik)??? Just curious to know:-) That's > all. > > I thought(!!! I could be wrong but refer to SVB:160-168) > sEShatva(ananyArha) and pAratantrya go hand in hand. Just > as "sEShatva" has to be kept suppressed if it hampers the Lord's > pleasure, the other attribute "pAratantrya" should not also be > allowed to damp/lower the Lord's spirits. It is neither SEshatva nor pAratantrya that is suppressed, but only the ahankAram associated with, I reiterate! What is SEsham in vernacular mathematics textbooks in India? Several sanskrit words e.g. AchAram, anushtAnam, anusandhAanm, samASrayaNam etc. are not used in the right spirit, particularly in South India including AP, though Telugu, Kannada are considered to be more sankritised than Northern languages (in terms of vocabulary). My statement does not mean I am in a position to give right meaning!! Recently one devotee rightly analyzed "upavAsam", which is different from abhOjanam or niraSanam (fasting). > Again refer to SVB:71-72. pAratantrya will eliminate > self- > effort, while sEShatva self-delight and self-enjoyment, provided > these two fundamental characteristics,which mark the essential > nature of the individual soul, are fully grasped and lived upto. > Then these two can be turned towards selfless service, rendered unto > the Lord, solely for His pleasure, with no tinge of personal egoism. You have (along with other swAmIs) precisely analyzed! > > Credit also goes to the devotees Sri Parthasarathy and > Sri vanamamali Padmanabhan. Plus, Sri Sridhar Srinivasan has > already > nicely explained the position of sEShatva-pAratantrya. > > AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam dAsAnudAsan Vishnu > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama: Dear Vishnu, I know the meaning of the word sat. What I was wondering is: ahankAram is ahankAram. What's the big deal about sAttvika ahankAram or any other ahankAram? dAsAnu dAsI NC Nappinnai > What is sAttvikam? If we look into its meaning, we will understand > whether sAttvika and other two ahankArams are there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha: I think Sathivika ahankaram is this. if one in the mode of goodness and allways doing good ,thinks: i am doing right things. doing good things to others and following regulative principles correctly and happy about that he is in Sathivika ahankara. Krishna says in Bhagwath Gita, even though one is in mode of goodness and feels happy about that he is conditioned.so we have to transcend even that mode and come to the suddha satvik nature to attain Sriman Narayana.. Krishna Dasee Vedavalli Ranganathan. > Sri: > Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: > Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama: > > Dear Vishnu, > I know the meaning of the word sat. What > I was wondering > is: ahankAram is ahankAram. What's the big deal > about sAttvika > ahankAram or any other ahankAram? > > dAsAnu dAsI > NC Nappinnai > > > What is sAttvikam? If we look into its meaning, we > will understand > > whether sAttvika and other two ahankArams are > there. > > > > _______________________________ Shop for Back-to-School deals on Shopping. /backtoschool Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 14, 2004 Agreed! Vishnu ramanuja, "vaidhehi_nc" <nappinnai_nc> wrote: > Sri: > Srimathe Ramanujaya nama: > Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama: > > Dear Vishnu, > I know the meaning of the word sat. What I was wondering > is: ahankAram is ahankAram. What's the big deal about sAttvika > ahankAram or any other ahankAram? > > dAsAnu dAsI > NC Nappinnai > > > What is sAttvikam? If we look into its meaning, we will understand > > whether sAttvika and other two ahankArams are there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 15, 2004 ramanuja, vedavalli ranganathan Dear Smt Vedavalli, How do you translate sAttvikam into English? Dasan Vishnu <vedaranga> wrote: > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha: > > > I think Sathivika ahankaram is this. if one in > the mode of goodness and allways doing good ,thinks: > i am doing right things. doing good things to others > and following regulative principles correctly and > happy about that he is in Sathivika ahankara. Krishna > says in Bhagwath Gita, even though one is in mode of > goodness and feels happy about that he is > conditioned.so we have to transcend even that mode and > come to the suddha satvik nature to attain Sriman > Narayana.. > > Krishna Dasee > > Vedavalli Ranganathan. > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted September 16, 2004 Dear Sri Vishnu, There are three gunas which is called modes of nature. Sathwik, Rajasik and Tamasik.Our material body is made of these gunas with the material elements. we can call it in english as mode of goodness , mode of passion and mode of ignorance. Krishna dasee Vedavalli Ranganathan. --- Vishnu <vsmvishnu wrote: > ramanuja, vedavalli > ranganathan > Dear Smt Vedavalli, > > How do you translate sAttvikam into English? > > Dasan > Vishnu > > <vedaranga> wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha: > > > > > > I think Sathivika ahankaram is this. if one > in > > the mode of goodness and allways doing good > ,thinks: > > i am doing right things. doing good things to > others > > and following regulative principles correctly and > > happy about that he is in Sathivika ahankara. > Krishna > > says in Bhagwath Gita, even though one is in mode > of > > goodness and feels happy about that he is > > conditioned.so we have to transcend even that mode > and > > come to the suddha satvik nature to attain Sriman > > Narayana.. > > > > Krishna Dasee > > > > Vedavalli Ranganathan. > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
