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when SriVaishnavism and Shaivism formed

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Namaste all

 

I read with amusement and pain the discussions on whether Valmiki

worshipped Shiva and whether Shankara worshipped Mahavishnu.

Even if these gentlemen come in person and proclaim the fact that

they see unity in Shiva, Vishnu and everything, I am sure, some of my

fellow human beings would still doubt them and rather live with their

Prejudices which are so dear to them.The entire edifice on which

their spiritual practise is built will come crumbling down if there

is an outside possibility that the other god is superior in some way.

Maya does not spare even spiritual seekers-even the well intentioned

and very learned among them.

 

{PS: I'm afraid I'll continue this lamenting in different ways as

long as this thread is open - May I have the sense to stop myself

here and with this}

 

MAny Pranams to all

Sridhar

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Namaste,

 

The thread began on Feb 2nd with Message # 20795, posted by 'A

Devotee', "vasu145" <vasu145 .

 

We shall wait for the closure till the the 'Devotee' gives us

the signal to stop.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

 

advaitin, "asridhar19" <asridhar19> wrote:

>

> Namaste all

>

> I read with amusement and pain the discussions on whether Valmiki

> worshipped Shiva and whether Shankara worshipped Mahavishnu.

>

> {PS: I'm afraid I'll continue this lamenting in different ways as

> long as this thread is open - May I have the sense to stop myself

> here and with this}

>

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advaitin, "Madhava Turumella" <madhava@m...>

wrote:

> Hari Om!

>

> Just wanted to remind you that today we can laugh out easily about

Shaiva

> and Vaishnava conflict. But how many of us would be in a position

to

> believe that more than a Million people killed in the battles that

took

> place between Saivites and Vaishnavites! It is true. Some

centuries ago

> there was a Saiva saint, lived in India in Karnataka region. He

declared

> "convert all of them to saivisam. If they do not accept Siva --

kill them",

> and his disciples faithfully carried out his word through the

means of a

> trishu (or a sword - how does it matter)!

>

 

I don't think this topic really belongs here.

 

However, I am a little curious about this allegation - "more than a

Million people killed in battles between Saivaite and Vaishnavaites"?

Could you specify which saint you are talking about here? Sweeping

statements such as these don't add any value. Please write more

precisely and with valid verifiable data.

 

If you are talking about the bhakti movement of Basaveshvara - I

remember from my 7-8 grade history class that he was a very gentle

person, hardly what you seem to be saying here. It was more of a

protest movement against Brahaministic rituals and against

exploitation of the lower castes by Brahmins.

 

Thanks

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Namaste all.

 

To know more about Basaveshvara, the saint of neighbouring Karnataka,

the Keralaite me sought the help of Google. The search yielded a

wealth of details about him.

 

There is this short description of him at

http://www.hssworld.org/homepage/html/boudhik/ekatmata_stotra/SHLOKA_1

6.html

 

"The founder of the Vira Saiva sect, Basaveshvara preached the tenets

and doctrines of his sect in Kamataka and Andhra Pradesh. This sect

does not accept or make any sort of discrimination or differentiation

among human beings in society. From his childhood itself there arose

in the heart of Basaveshvara strong urge towards devotion of Shiva.

He had an unflinching faith in Vira Mahesvara. He took birth in the

home of his father Nadiraja and mother Madambika in the village

Bagavadi in Kamataka Pradesh in 42nd contury of Kaliyuga ( i.e. in

11th century A.D. ). The ritual of Lingadharana Sanskara in his case

was got done by an ascetic ( Sannyasi ) named Sangamanath. He had

been a minister, for some time, of the King Vijjala of Kalyan."

 

Mark the second sentence of this description!

 

A lot more details of the tradition and philosophy he stood for are

available at http://virashaivam.shaivam.org.

 

If anything, all that I have read are really enlightening and

edifying. He can't have caused the death of even an ant! Om Namah

ShivAya!

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

 

______________

 

advaitin, "savithri_devaraj"

<savithri_devaraj> wrote in reply to Shri Madhava Turumella:

 

If you are talking about the bhakti movement of Basaveshvara - I

> remember from my 7-8 grade history class that he was a very gentle

> person, hardly what you seem to be saying here. It was more of a

> protest movement against Brahaministic rituals and against

> exploitation of the lower castes by Brahmins.

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My profound Namaskarams to all,

 

Thanks for providing your suggestions and participating in this

discussion.

 

I am sticking to my earlier opinion that I pray my Lord without

insulting or bothering other person's belief and faith.

 

Sorry if I hurt anybody in starting this topic. Just to know from

high intellectuals here about my doubts which I was having from

childhood.

 

I would like to end this topic please.

 

=====================================================================

> Namaste,

>

> The thread began on Feb 2nd with Message # 20795, posted

by 'A

> Devotee', "vasu145" <vasu145> .

>

> We shall wait for the closure till the the 'Devotee' gives

us

> the signal to stop.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

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Respected Benjamin,

 

Is there any proof for your claim. I dont think it happened.

Centainly there were quarrels between these two groups. But can

believe what you are saying.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Hari Om !

 

 

Saivism is the world's oldest religion. Worshiping God Siva, the compassionate One, it stresses potent disciplines, high philosophy, the guru's centrality and bhakti-raja- siddha yoga leading to oneness with Siva within. Aum.

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist.Saivism's grandeur and beauty are found in a practical culture, an enlightened view of man's place in the universe and a profound system of temple mysticism and siddha yoga. It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha. The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe--by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya.

 

God Shiva is known by various names. One of his names is Bholenath, which means the innocent God. Shiva as Rudra is regarded as the destroyer of evil and sorrow. Shiva as Shankara is known as the doer of good. Lord Shiva has "Trinetra" (divine vision). He is also known as "Nilakantha" (blue necked). This is because of the fact that he consumed the poison 'Halahala' to save the world from destruction. Lord Shiva as Nataraja represents the Divine Cosmic Dancer. Shiva is also known as Ardh narishvara, which symbolises both man and woman.

 

 

Even though he represents destruction, Lord Shiva is viewed as a positive force (the Destroyer of Evil). According to Shaivism, Shiva is not merely a destroyer but performs five functions :

 

  • Creator Preserver
  • Destroyer
  • Hiding the sins
  • Blessing

Whatever you see, see as Shiva and do not be distressed, O mind! Those who are free from agitation and who the senses five control will surely win the bliss of Shiva. The path prescribed by your religion you should always tread, and live in changeless, silent contemplation. Whatever you see, see as Shiva.

 

Natchintanai, "Whatever You See..." NT, 68

 

Shiva is Maha Kal the Lord of All Lords Even Lord Rama,Krishna,and Vishnu Worshipped Lord Shiva He is Maha Yogi,he is Not Sangara Priya You Need Not decorate Him with jewels and materialistic ornaments or Need not bring him any offerings that's why they say Brahma,Vishnu and SADA Shiv,because his existence is time less age less,see Ramayana,mahabartha you will find pandavayas ,kauravyas all worshipping lords Shiva, all the lords and Demons of 3 lokas worshipped him to get their desired boons,even the jungle tribes in remote places in sri Lanka,thai land,Malaysia and unknown islands believe and worship him its only mind heart and soul,No worly rituals and mantras to perform to reach him.He is Dev adi dev Maha dev he never took any avatars because there is one God Only demi gods comes to Restore with the blessing of Ultimate god,That's why in all Vishnu ,Krishna etc avatars The lords worshipped Mahadev lord Shiva.We don't preach we only meditate and Practice SHIVA-5 words,the Master of 5 elements

 

Water - Thiruvanaikoil

Air - Kalahasti

Fire - Thiruvannamalai

Space - Chidambaram

Earth - Kanchipuram or Thiruvarur.

 

Hope your doubts are Cleared i am not preaching of Shiva my concept is He is the Main Lord and god the Most ancient Lord worshipped by Devatas,rashis,munis ,and Sages, Some early sect of Brahims didn't like Shiva Concept of Equal rights to women,and not to allow them the privilege of Teaching religion,They found New sects of their own according to their own connivance and brought, sati system,and declared that women to only serve their husband ,

 

Do you Know The concept of Ardha Nareshwara.Or ardhanggini (lord Shiva shown as Half male and Half female)

 

(1) In the cosmic scheme man represents Purusha (the Person, Spirit) and woman Prakriti (Nature, primal Matter), both of whom unite to keep the world going. So goes the Vedic verse: ‘I am He, you are She; I am song, you are verse; I am heaven, you are earth. We two shall here together dwell becoming parents of children.’

 

This just one single point not in depth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

 

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

 

Om Nama shivya

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advaitin, "Madhava Turumella" <MADHAVA@M...>

wrote:

> Hari Om!

>

> Just wanted to remind you that today we can laugh out easily about

Shaiva

> and Vaishnava conflict. But how many of us would be in a position

to

> believe that more than a Million people killed in the battles that

took

> place between Saivites and Vaishnavites! It is true. Some

centuries ago

> there was a Saiva saint, lived in India in Karnataka region. He

declared

> "convert all of them to saivisam. If they do not accept Siva --

kill them",

> and his disciples faithfully carried out his word through the

means of a

> trishu (or a sword - how does it matter)!

>

 

I don't think this topic really belongs here.

 

However, I am a little curious about this allegation - "more than a

Million people killed in battles between Saivaite and Vaishnavaites"?

Could you specify which saint you are talking about here? Sweeping

statements such as these don't add any value. Please write more

precisely and with valid verifiable data.

 

If you are talking about the bhakti movement of Basaveshvara - I

remember from my 7-8 grade history class that he was a very gentle

person, hardly what you seem to be saying here. It was more of a

protest movement against Brahaministic rituals and against

exploitation of the lower castes by Brahmins.

 

Thanks

 

Hinduism is not a single religion its the collection of Saivism,Shaktismn,Vaishnavism,Smartism is known today as Hinduism

 

But All four believe in karma and reincarnation and in a Supreme Being who is both form and pervades form, who creates, sustains and destroys the universe only to create it again in unending cycles. They strongly declare the validity and importance of temple worship, in the three worlds of existence and the myriad Gods and devas residing in them. They concur that there is no intrinsic evil, that the cosmos is created out of God and is permeated by Him. They each believe in maya (though their definitions differ somewhat), and in the liberation of the soul from rebirth, called moksha, as the goal of human existence. They believe in dharma and in ahimsa, noninjury, and in the need for a satguru to lead the soul toward Self Realization. They wear the sacred marks, tilaka, on their foreheads as sacred symbols, though each wears a distinct mark. Finally, they prefer cremation of the body upon death, believing that the soul will inhabit another body in the next life. While Hinduism has many sacred scriptures, all sects ascribe the highest authority to the Vedas and Agamas, though their Agamas differ somewhat

 

Eg-like Christianity-(30+ CE) Christianity is divided into three main sects: Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant. Among Protestants there are over 20,000 denomin-ations.

Eastern Orthodox-(1054 CE),Lutheran -Martin Luther (1517),Anglican -Henry VIII (1534),Methodist -John Wesley (1739)

Worldwide Church of God -Herbert Armstrong (1933),Baptist John Smyth (1609),Presbyterian -John Knox (1625),Quakers -George Fox (1647),Mormon Joseph Smith (1830) to sum in word they are called Christianity

 

The Ultimate Truth

 

Saivism: There are no divine earthly incarnations of the Supreme Being.

 

God Siva is one with the soul. The soul must realize this advaitic (monistic) Truth by God Siva's grace

 

With bhakti as a base, emphasis is placed on sadhana, tapas (austerity) and yoga. Ascetic.

 

texts-Vedas, Saiva Agamas and Saiva Puranas

 

Geographically widespread, strongest in South and North India, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

 

Time less Truth to be accepted

 

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist

 

It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha.

 

 

The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya

 

The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

God and his creation are One. Yet God hides himself from his creation to give himself the joy of discovering God. God is both Creator and the Created. This is also known as the Wisdom of Balance. The Uncreated God and The Created God are One, yet the creation is attached to the grand illusion of separateness. Whenever God's creation discovers God, God discovers himself all over again. God delights in the dance of hiding and discovering his glory. The Cosmic Dance of Shiva.

 

Your life is your part in this awesome Cosmic Dance. Your birth begins with your God Consciousness hid from you. If you have not discovered your unlimited potential in this life you will die, and your soul will go to the unseen state awaiting its chance for another birth. This is the gem of knowledge known as Reincarnation.

 

About Vaishnavism

 

Vaishnavism is also an ancient Hindu sect centering on the worship of Lord Vishnu and His incarnations, especially Krishna and Rama. Largely dualistic, profoundly devotional, it is rich in saints, temples and scriptures. Aum.

 

The worship of Vishnu, meaning "pervader, " dates back to Vedic times. The Pancharatra and Bhagavata sects were popular prior to 300 bce.

 

The Bhagavad Gita states, "On those who meditate on Me and worship with undivided heart, I confer attainment of what they have not, and preserve what they have." Aum Namo Narayanaya.

 

But There is no denial of incarnations and 10 avatars of Lord Vishnu..... But,,,,

 

Proof that Lord Shiva Was there in all yugas and was worshipped by all God and Goddess.There are many instances

 

He was worshipped by lord Rama and Ravana also as he was the only God and energy of good as well as evil,He was a Kind Father who granted all the wishes of the children's who pray to him he never see if his children's intentions but if they pray to him he grants them without thinking he never judges you by you mistakes or past things every time you go to him he you are a New person coming to him with your problems to be solved.

 

Because of his innocence's he is called Bhole nath,

 

But also Notice that when he was around on Earth he did not meet any avatars or none existed only in Heavens his stories with Brahma and Vishnu are mentioned.

 

Here are few incidents mentioned in Holy books about Lord Shiva documented and of his appearances

 

Lord shiva takes the shape of (Lingam) Controls the universe and all the Gods

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

why the lingam is believed to be one of the most potent emblems in Hindu ideals.

 

It all started with Brahma and Vishnu, who were arguing over their relative supremacy. Their vain arguments were interrupted by a superluminous glow from a strange and blazing pillar, its shape reminiscent of the linga. Both of them sped towards this indescribable flaming light, which grew before their eyes into infinity, piercing the earth and extending through the heavens. Overwhelmed and terrified by the unfathomable vision, the two gods decided to seek the beginning and end of this burning immensity. Brahma taking the form of a swan flew upwards, and Vishnu dove down acquiring the shape of a boar. Both of the gods however, could not fathom the extent of this fiery column at either end, and returned exhausted and bewildered to the level they had started from. At that moment, the central part of the pillar split open and Shiva revealed himself in his full glory. Overawed, both Brahma and Vishnu bowed before him. Thunderous laughter, or the sound of AUM, issued from the pillar, filling the sky.

 

Brahma's head was Ripped off By lord shiva

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->once, Brahma and Vishnu were discussing who was the supreme god and then when they came to know from Veda that Shiva is the supreme being, Brahma ignored and spoke bad about Shiva. He got angry and cut off Brahma's head that spoke ill of him, leaving Brahma with four heads instead of five.Shiva is the creator of Dance and of the first 16 rythemic syllabus ever uttered, the Sanskrit language was born. Dance of anger is known as Tandav Nritya, joy as Ananda nritya. Thus, Shiva is also known as Natraja, lord of dance and it is said that on 13th day of each bright lunar fortnight of Hindu calendar, after 6 in the evening, falls a sacred hour called Pradosha and if you worship this time than one gets powers of Universe. It is believed that all Gods gather to witness the dance of Natraja, Shiva.There are around 30 million Linga in temples in India, famous one formed of Ice at Amarnath, Somnath in Gujarat and it is said Shiva sleeps in all Lingas in Chaturmasya and so if one worships the Shivlinga this time, than it is very auspicious. Going for Pilgrimage to all 12 Jyotirlinga means one washes away the sins of last seven births and also reciting the mantras purifies the soul and can attain peacefulness

Lord Krishna's advice to Arjuna

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

After hearing about the Pandav's exile, Krishna goes to visit them. He advises the Pandavs to prepare for war and tells Arjun to do penance to obtain divine weapons. Arjun does penance and eventually pleases Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva bestows him with the divine Pasupata weapon and advises him to obtain other weapons in Indralok. Rishi Duruvasa visits Hastinapur. In an attempt to humiliate the Pandavs, Duryodhan requests that the sage visit tha Pandavs as well. Rishi Duruvasa promises to do so

 

 

 

Lord shiva grants Draupadi her desired wish

<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

When Sage Vyasa visits the family, he explains to Draupadi that her unique position as the wife of five brothers results from a certain incident in her previous birth. She had in that lifetime prayed to Lord Shiva to grant her a husband with five desired qualities. Lord Shiva, pleased with her devotion, tells her that it is very difficult to get a husband with all five qualities that she desired. But she sticks to her ground and asks for the same. Then Lord Shiva grants her wish saying that she would get the same in her next birth. Hence she gets married to five brothers each who represents a given quality.

 

The Sad Truth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

 

Om Nama shivya

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This Shiva is God Stuff is Bogus.

 

Lord Shiva is the Brother of the Kumaras & Narada etc.

 

When Lord Brahma passes away --so will all pass away by merging back into MAhaVisnu's Breathing.

 

The Hiarchy of the Descendants of Lord Brahma Maha-pita-ma [Great Grand Father] of the Celestial "Demi-gods" is known.

 

Shiva is Brahma's Son.

 

Shiva & Brahma are Jiva-atmas.

Visnu is a 'plenary expansion' of God in the Material Worlds.

 

But don't let me dissuade you from pursuing your passion.

 

Your evident devotion will bring you to the service of Mahesh's other more-seasoned servants in due time.

 

Since Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava without equal then we must invoke his protection from maya & her illusory spells and her servants too.

 

<!-- / message -->Bhaktajan<!-- sig -->

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Saivism is the world's oldest religion.

Worshiping God Siva, the compassionate One, it stresses potent disciplines, high philosophy, the guru's centrality and bhakti-raja- siddha yoga leading to oneness with Siva within. Aum.

Saivism is ancient, truly ageless, for it has no beginning. It is the precursor of the many-faceted religion now termed Hinduism. Scholars trace the roots of Siva worship back more than 8,000 years to the advanced Indus Valley civilization. But sacred writings tell us there never was a time when Saivism did not exist.Saivism's grandeur and beauty are found in a practical culture, an enlightened view of man's place in the universe and a profound system of temple mysticism and siddha yoga. It provides knowledge of man's evolution from God and back to God, of the soul's unfoldment and awakening guided by enlightened sages. Like all the sects, its majority are devout families, headed by hundreds of orders of swamis and sadhus who follow the fiery, world-renouncing path to moksha. The Vedas state, "By knowing Siva, the Auspicious One who is hidden in all things, exceedingly fine, like film arising from clarified butter, the One embracer of the universe--by realizing God, one is released from all fetters." Aum Namah Sivaya.

God Shiva is known by various names. One of his names is Bholenath, which means the innocent God. Shiva as Rudra is regarded as the destroyer of evil and sorrow. Shiva as Shankara is known as the doer of good. Lord Shiva has "Trinetra" (divine vision). He is also known as "Nilakantha" (blue necked). This is because of the fact that he consumed the poison 'Halahala' to save the world from destruction. Lord Shiva as Nataraja represents the Divine Cosmic Dancer. Shiva is also known as Ardh narishvara, which symbolises both man and woman.

Even though he represents destruction, Lord Shiva is viewed as a positive force (the Destroyer of Evil). According to Shaivism, Shiva is not merely a destroyer but performs five functions :

 

  • Creator Preserver
  • Destroyer
  • Hiding the sins
  • Blessing

Whatever you see, see as Shiva and do not be distressed, O mind! Those who are free from agitation and who the senses five control will surely win the bliss of Shiva. The path prescribed by your religion you should always tread, and live in changeless, silent contemplation. Whatever you see, see as Shiva.

 

Natchintanai, "Whatever You See..." NT, 68

 

Shiva is Maha Kal the Lord of All Lords Even Lord Rama,Krishna,and Vishnu Worshipped Lord Shiva He is Maha Yogi,he is Not Sangara Priya You Need Not decorate Him with jewels and materialistic ornaments or Need not bring him any offerings that's why they say Brahma,Vishnu and SADA Shiv,because his existence is time less age less,see Ramayana,mahabartha you will find pandavayas ,kauravyas all worshipping lords Shiva, all the lords and Demons of 3 lokas worshipped him to get their desired boons,even the jungle tribes in remote places in sri Lanka,thai land,Malaysia and unknown islands believe and worship him its only mind heart and soul,No worly rituals and mantras to perform to reach him.He is Dev adi dev Maha dev he never took any avatars because there is one God Only demi gods comes to Restore with the blessing of Ultimate god,That's why in all Vishnu ,Krishna etc avatars The lords worshipped Mahadev lord Shiva.We don't preach we only meditate and Practice SHIVA-5 words,the Master of 5 elements

 

Water - Thiruvanaikoil

Air - Kalahasti

Fire - Thiruvannamalai

Space - Chidambaram

Earth - Kanchipuram or Thiruvarur.

 

Hope your doubts are Cleared i am not preaching of Shiva my concept is He is the Main Lord and god the Most ancient Lord worshipped by Devatas,rashis,munis ,and Sages, Some early sect of Brahims didn't like Shiva Concept of Equal rights to women,and not to allow them the privilege of Teaching religion,They found New sects of their own according to their own connivance and brought, sati system,and declared that women to only serve their husband ,

 

Do you Know The concept of Ardha Nareshwara.Or ardhanggini (lord Shiva shown as Half male and Half female)

 

(1) In the cosmic scheme man represents Purusha (the Person, Spirit) and woman Prakriti (Nature, primal Matter), both of whom unite to keep the world going. So goes the Vedic verse: ‘I am He, you are She; I am song, you are verse; I am heaven, you are earth. We two shall here together dwell becoming parents of children.’

 

This just one single point not in depth

 

The Ancient brahims Abolished the Savism concept which was practised in India and that time India was in peak of its glory they created caste system according to their occupation and classified according to their jobs which they do in daily life created upper and lower caste and ruled them and the kings which was major draw back in Hindu society which created chance and opportunities from other cultures to easily enter India and showcase our drawback and spread new religion In India The Mother of all religions which Once taught the world the art of war,science ,medicine dance Martial arts, many More is now stands divided

 

"Mankind ought to be taught that religions are but the varied expressions of THE RELIGION, which is Oneness, so that each may choose the path that suits him best." - Swami Vivekananda)the saivism concept

Om Nama shivya

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This Shiva is God Stuff is Bogus.

 

Lord Shiva is the Brother of the Kumaras & Narada etc.

 

When Lord Brahma passes away --so will all pass away by merging back into MAhaVisnu's Breathing.

 

The Hiarchy of the Descendants of Lord Brahma Maha-pita-ma [Great Grand Father] of the Celestial "Demi-gods" is known.

 

Shiva is Brahma's Son.

 

Shiva & Brahma are Jiva-atmas.

Visnu is a 'plenary expansion' of God in the Material Worlds.

 

But don't let me dissuade you from pursuing your passion.

 

Your evident devotion will bring you to the service of Mahesh's other more-seasoned servants in due time.

 

Since Lord Shiva is a Vaishnava without equal then we must invoke his protection from maya & her illusory spells and her servants too.

 

<!-- / message -->Bhaktajan<!-- sig -->

 

 

Only you will realise the truth when you leave this Missionary attitude, stop looking for answers outside you and become antarmukhi to find who you are. The parambrahman is Anant and Apaar. Even Vishnu needs to worship Shiva Tattva if he has to gain Samadhi. I agree that Shiva represents the Tamasic form of the Trigunas but only in Tamas, Laya (dissolution) is possible. Truth can only be found within you. Not outside you. You will also know what Advaita means and what Maya is. You will also know why are there so many hurdles when you try to reach the supreme. What is the purpose of Puranas, Devaloka, Kinnaraloka, Bhu, Bhuvah, Swaha, Janah, Mahah, Tapah and the end is the Satyam (truth). Just try to look from the perspective of Satyam and you will know what is rest.

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Dear Srikanth.

 

I am ome who believes all gods are manifestaiions of bhraman nomnly and hence no inferror superior stuff.

Having said that , I would like to correct you on one technical matter. ( with out intenting to start a quaral) Lord Siva does not represent tamasic form. (As you seems to have acepted) In fact He is Satvic. Look at the colour code system of the tree gunas. Satva is white and rajas is red or golden and tamas is black or blue. Now look at Sivas colour. He is pure white. Bhrama is rajasic (Yellow) and Vishnu is tamasic (Black or blue) . Therev is even an explicit declaration of the gunas of the three gods apart from thee colour code, in Pradamika rahasya of durga saptasati. In Pradamika rahasya , the three pairs of gods and goddess are described as follows: First from the grand godess three being arose: in pure satva form white mahasaraswati pure rajasic form golden maha lakshmi and pure tamasic form black mahakali. From pure satvic maha saraswati arouse two pairs - brother and syster - Siva and Saraswati. From rajasic mahalakshmi two rajasic manifestation the couple Bhrama and Lakshmi Golden in colour arose. From pure tamasic Mahakali arose two thamasic being dark coloured Vishnu and kali arose.

Then Bhrama married saraswati, visnu married lakshmi and Sive married Kali.

 

Siva himself is pure satvic manifestation. It is kali who is tamasic, not siva. Of course siva is married to kali there by possesses tamasic shakti as his partner. That is only because only a pure sartvic guy like Siva could be entrested with such a dangerous destructive power. Only a purely satvic being can use that dangerous power with out being corrept by power and will put in to right use with out any personal motiveand desire.( rajas) or ignorance (tamas) Siva is pure satvic He is a saint perfect. See he only meditates all the time expect of course when it is time to destroy evil.

 

Lord Siva is not tamas princiople He is satva perfect and pure.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

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Dear Srikanth.

 

I am ome who believes all gods are manifestaiions of bhraman nomnly and hence no inferror superior stuff.

Having said that , I would like to correct you on one technical matter. ( with out intenting to start a quaral) Lord Siva does not represent tamasic form. (As you seems to have acepted) In fact He is Satvic. Look at the colour code system of the tree gunas. Satva is white and rajas is red or golden and tamas is black or blue. Now look at Sivas colour. He is pure white. Bhrama is rajasic (Yellow) and Vishnu is tamasic (Black or blue) . Therev is even an explicit declaration of the gunas of the three gods apart from thee colour code, in Pradamika rahasya of durga saptasati. In Pradamika rahasya , the three pairs of gods and goddess are described as follows: First from the grand godess three being arose: in pure satva form white mahasaraswati pure rajasic form golden maha lakshmi and pure tamasic form black mahakali. From pure satvic maha saraswati arouse two pairs - brother and syster - Siva and Saraswati. From rajasic mahalakshmi two rajasic manifestation the couple Bhrama and Lakshmi Golden in colour arose. From pure tamasic Mahakali arose two thamasic being dark coloured Vishnu and kali arose.

Then Bhrama married saraswati, visnu married lakshmi and Sive married Kali.

 

Siva himself is pure satvic manifestation. It is kali who is tamasic, not siva. Of course siva is married to kali there by possesses tamasic shakti as his partner. That is only because only a pure sartvic guy like Siva could be entrested with such a dangerous destructive power. Only a purely satvic being can use that dangerous power with out being corrept by power and will put in to right use with out any personal motiveand desire.( rajas) or ignorance (tamas) Siva is pure satvic He is a saint perfect. See he only meditates all the time expect of course when it is time to destroy evil.

 

Lord Siva is not tamas princiople He is satva perfect and pure.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

 

If that was the point, Laya is not possible in Sattva and Rajas. It is only in the form of Tamas that Laya is possible like a Sinusoidal wave. It has a beginning (Brahma Tattva), a peak (Vishnu Tattva) and an End (Laya or the Shiva Tattva). If colors derives the principle then the basic interpretation of Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh itself would be questionable. Will it not be?

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Dear Srikant,

 

Laya might be interpreted as a highly spiritual state, Everything material and plurolity -which is a result of maya - get destroyrd when the thire eye of siva - a spiritual eye opens. Only Bhraman remains. Maya is destroyed. It is highly satvic as it is a high quality of wisdom. ( satva is meditative wisedom and intelligence) Siva is destructive in this sense Not in a tamasic sense but in ispiritually intelligent (satvic) sense.

 

By the by I shall give more codes of the trinity to reinforce what I said. Look at Bhrama, he doesnot meditate he broods, His brooding mind creats the world. that is rajasic ( actiove mind) Vishnu doesnot meditate either. He sleeps. ( lying down is not a meditative posture). Sleeping is tamasic. Sive meditates. He is in In samadi. Spiritual meditative state is not tamasic but highly satvic.

 

That Siva is a tanmasic god might be a misinterpretation invented by nonsivite bhaktas. Of course it is my hypothesis, going by many evidences that I provided from mythologies. Still you could be write, that tamas is laya principle.

 

Regards,

K.Ravindran

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It is also said in Vedic literature:

 

 

 

ñaö-karma-nipuëo vipro

 

mantra-tantra-viçäradaù

avaiñëavo gurur na syäd

vaiñëavaù çva-paco guruù

 

 

 

“A scholarly brähmaëa, expert in all subjects of Vedic knowledge, is unfit to become a spiritual master without being a Vaiñëava, or expert in the science of Kåñëa consciousness. But a person born in a family of a lower caste can become a spiritual master if he is a Vaiñëava, or Kåñëa conscious.” (Padma Puräëa)

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Dear Bhakjan, can YOU please tell me what the Kaivalya Upanishad meant when it said,

 

NA KARMANA NA PRAJAYA DHANENA TYAGENAIKE AMRITATVAMANASHUH

 

I just want your straight answer and no quotes please. I think that should be simple for your vast knowledge.

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Kaivalya Upanishad

{kaivalya—of liberation}

NA KARMANA NA PRAJAYA DHANENA TYAGENAIKE AMRITATVAMANASHUH

1) kaivalya—of liberation — whence such topics should spring ~[Do you care to liberate me? And why would you?].

2) You should ask your own Mentor [for a translation] after approaching him with respect and services.

3) Here is my rendering—which is "out of context"— thus, the meaning is predicated on the "Context" of who is speaking to whom during what event.

"NOT WORKS, NOR GOOD BIRTHS, WEALTH, AUSTERITIES NEITHER GAINS

ETERNAL BENEFIT EXCEPT BY WAY OF FALSE PRESTIGE AND SELF HONOR IN YOUR OWN MIND"

—[bhaktajan's illict translation custom made for srikanthkd71]

 

PS: Find your own pals on your own path.

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Dear srikanthdk71 I am so honored to be the recipient of so much from you.

 

My cup overflow-eth with all the weighty data and revelations that you so kindly bestowed on me alone.

 

Thank you for the your personal attention and abundance of gifts in the form of your best contributions.

 

on MY path,

Bhaktajan

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Dear srikanthdk71 I am so honored to be the recipient of so much from you.

 

My cup overflow-eth with all the weighty data and revelations that you so kindly bestowed on me alone.

 

Thank you for the your personal attention and abundance of gifts in the form of your best contributions.

 

on MY path,

Bhaktajan

 

May it be a complaint or a complement, somehow Bhaktjan, I feel I know you from a long time. Though we may have many heated arguments, somewhere inside we tend to follow one another. Anyway dude, I do not have anything personal against you nor I believe you have the same. Its just our beliefs do not match and we come together again and again, just to exchange fire.

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