In Tantra , nothing is considered 'bad'!!!!

[Guest guest]

Summarising chapter 18, Sir John Woodroffe paraphrases the tantra:--

 

"There are people who regard semen and menstrual fluid with disgust,

but they forget that the body by which they hope to attain Liberation

is composed of these two forms of matter, that the marrow, bone and

tendons have come from the father and the skin, flesh and blood from

the mother. It further says that there is no reason for man's disgust

for excreta or urine, for these are nothing but food or drink which

has undergone some change and contains living creatures and the

Brahman substance is not absent therefrom...All things are pure. It

is one's mentality which is evil." (KN, introduction, pp19-20)

 

 

SO FOLKS, nothing is bad ; it is thinking which makes it so!!

 

but by the same token as Lady Joyce so eloquently stated a few posts

back , we need to respect our most beloved Harsha and this is his

list ... we are his honored guests ... so out of respect for him, let

us not use those F*** words ! OK?

 

THANK YOU SWEET HEARTS!! i luv you all!

 

((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

 

every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

[Guest guest]

You and Yosie will get along very fine, and Yosie doesn't need Viagra for being

M-I. (mentally impotent)

And about Madonna... You go Kid, you Go...

(We need to get Tony out of the house more, he needs to go out and dance more...

abandon himself into automatic...)

 

And that about Tantra... there is such good stuff there... Funny that in India

it is very suspect amongst the run of the mill population... but then lots of

good things are very suspect...

 

Wim

 

adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:

Summarising chapter 18, Sir John Woodroffe paraphrases the tantra:--

 

"There are people who regard semen and menstrual fluid with disgust,

but they forget that the body by which they hope to attain Liberation

is composed of these two forms of matter, that the marrow, bone and

tendons have come from the father and the skin, flesh and blood from

the mother. It further says that there is no reason for man's disgust

for excreta or urine, for these are nothing but food or drink which

has undergone some change and contains living creatures and the

Brahman substance is not absent therefrom...All things are pure. It

is one's mentality which is evil." (KN, introduction, pp19-20)

 

 

SO FOLKS, nothing is bad ; it is thinking which makes it so!!

 

but by the same token as Lady Joyce so eloquently stated a few posts

back , we need to respect our most beloved Harsha and this is his

list ... we are his honored guests ... so out of respect for him, let

us not use those F*** words ! OK?

 

THANK YOU SWEET HEARTS!! i luv you all!

 

((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

 

every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

 

 

 

 

/join

 

 

 

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

 

Sri Ramana

 

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Oh boy, Adiji!

 

You should have been at the WAVES conference.

One of their bigger themes was some new book

by some American scholar on some ancient

sub-tradition within Hindu Tantra that allegedly

practiced drinking various 'fluids' as part of

the ceremony for the mystical energy in them.

I can't be more specific, but the point is that

the WAVES people were NOT happy about this,

since they feel that it gives a distorted and

sensational impression of Hinduism in general

and of indu Tantrism in particular.

 

As for me, I am an Upanishad man... :-)

 

My drinks consist of orange juice and coffee.

 

Ben

 

 

 

, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Summarising chapter 18, Sir John Woodroffe paraphrases the tantra:--

>

> "There are people who regard semen and menstrual fluid with disgust,

> but they forget that the body by which they hope to attain Liberation

> is composed of these two forms of matter, that the marrow, bone and

> tendons have come from the father and the skin, flesh and blood from

> the mother. It further says that there is no reason for man's disgust

> for excreta or urine, for these are nothing but food or drink which

> has undergone some change and contains living creatures and the

> Brahman substance is not absent therefrom...All things are pure. It

> is one's mentality which is evil." (KN, introduction, pp19-20)

>

>

> SO FOLKS, nothing is bad ; it is thinking which makes it so!!

>

> but by the same token as Lady Joyce so eloquently stated a few posts

> back , we need to respect our most beloved Harsha and this is his

> list ... we are his honored guests ... so out of respect for him, let

> us not use those F*** words ! OK?

>

> THANK YOU SWEET HEARTS!! i luv you all!

>

> ((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

>

> every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

[Guest guest]

well, ben!

 

what do you know?

 

 

i would like toshare with you the following !!

 

" In India, urine therapy is called "shivambu": "Had our shivambu

rishi (sage), great devotee, propagator and mighty supporter of

shivambu movement, centenarian former Prime Minister of India,

respected (late) Morarji Desai not boldly and emphatically declared

before the world that lie drank his own urine regularly and that was

the secret of his longevity and exuberant health, the most valuable

and beneficial information that is being given to you through this

booklet, which can prove to be a boon to our poor country and which

is capable of curing a host of diseases ranging from common cold to

cancer and arthritis to AIDS, would have remained hidden in some

unknown quarters and the entire mankind would have been deprived of

shivambu. Really speaking, late Shri Morarjlbhai by his frank and

honest declaration has accorded world recognition, glory and

greatness to this free yet priceless therapy otherwise considered to

be nauseating. The whole world shall ever remain indebted to him for

rendering this great humanitarian service. " G.K.Thakkar

 

ARE YOU SHOCKED, AS YET?

 

well, the Chinese practiced the Urine Therapy for the longest time to

cure all diseases.

 

and have you ever seen a dog when it is sick? when i was in India, we

used to have an Alsatian dog and whenver it threw up, it will eat its

own vomit. and my vet told me the Dog was trying to cure himself...

 

well india is a lAND OF MYTHS AND MIRACLES!!

 

FOR MORE ON THIS ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE,

 

read

 

http://www.hps-online.com/hurine1.htm - 56k - Cached -

 

but guys, don't try it without checking with your physician!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "Benjamin" <orion777ben>

wrote:

> Oh boy, Adiji!

>

> You should have been at the WAVES conference.

> One of their bigger themes was some new book

> by some American scholar on some ancient

> sub-tradition within Hindu Tantra that allegedly

> practiced drinking various 'fluids' as part of

> the ceremony for the mystical energy in them.

> I can't be more specific, but the point is that

> the WAVES people were NOT happy about this,

> since they feel that it gives a distorted and

> sensational impression of Hinduism in general

> and of indu Tantrism in particular.

>

> As for me, I am an Upanishad man... :-)

>

> My drinks consist of orange juice and coffee.

>

> Ben

>

>

>

> , "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> > Summarising chapter 18, Sir John Woodroffe paraphrases the

tantra:--

> >

> > "There are people who regard semen and menstrual fluid with

disgust,

> > but they forget that the body by which they hope to attain

Liberation

> > is composed of these two forms of matter, that the marrow, bone

and

> > tendons have come from the father and the skin, flesh and blood

from

> > the mother. It further says that there is no reason for man's

disgust

> > for excreta or urine, for these are nothing but food or drink

which

> > has undergone some change and contains living creatures and the

> > Brahman substance is not absent therefrom...All things are pure.

It

> > is one's mentality which is evil." (KN, introduction, pp19-20)

> >

> >

> > SO FOLKS, nothing is bad ; it is thinking which makes it so!!

> >

> > but by the same token as Lady Joyce so eloquently stated a few

posts

> > back , we need to respect our most beloved Harsha and this is his

> > list ... we are his honored guests ... so out of respect for him,

let

> > us not use those F*** words ! OK?

> >

> > THANK YOU SWEET HEARTS!! i luv you all!

> >

> > ((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

> >

> > every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

[Guest guest]

Adiji,

 

Ever since looking at things under a microscope

when I was a kid, I am sometimes bothered

to think that all those disgusting germs and

things are in me and on me by the billions.

 

I know it's silly, but I do feel this way sometimes.

 

Well, there's only one way to escape the body,

and that is probably only temporary!

 

Ben

 

 

 

, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> well, ben!

>

> what do you know?

>

>

> i would like toshare with you the following !!

>

> " In India, urine therapy is called "shivambu": "Had our shivambu

> rishi (sage), great devotee, propagator and mighty supporter of

> shivambu movement, centenarian former Prime Minister of India,

> respected (late) Morarji Desai not boldly and emphatically declared

> before the world that lie drank his own urine regularly and that was

> the secret of his longevity and exuberant health, the most valuable

> and beneficial information that is being given to you through this

> booklet, which can prove to be a boon to our poor country and which

> is capable of curing a host of diseases ranging from common cold to

> cancer and arthritis to AIDS, would have remained hidden in some

> unknown quarters and the entire mankind would have been deprived of

> shivambu. Really speaking, late Shri Morarjlbhai by his frank and

> honest declaration has accorded world recognition, glory and

> greatness to this free yet priceless therapy otherwise considered to

> be nauseating. The whole world shall ever remain indebted to him for

> rendering this great humanitarian service. " G.K.Thakkar

>

> ARE YOU SHOCKED, AS YET?

>

> well, the Chinese practiced the Urine Therapy for the longest time to

> cure all diseases.

>

> and have you ever seen a dog when it is sick? when i was in India, we

> used to have an Alsatian dog and whenver it threw up, it will eat its

> own vomit. and my vet told me the Dog was trying to cure himself...

>

> well india is a lAND OF MYTHS AND MIRACLES!!

>

> FOR MORE ON THIS ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE,

>

> read

>

> http://www.hps-online.com/hurine1.htm - 56k - Cached -

>

> but guys, don't try it without checking with your physician!!

, "Benjamin" <orion777ben>

> wrote:

> > Oh boy, Adiji!

> >

> > You should have been at the WAVES conference.

> > One of their bigger themes was some new book

> > by some American scholar on some ancient

> > sub-tradition within Hindu Tantra that allegedly

> > practiced drinking various 'fluids' as part of

> > the ceremony for the mystical energy in them.

> > I can't be more specific, but the point is that

> > the WAVES people were NOT happy about this,

> > since they feel that it gives a distorted and

> > sensational impression of Hinduism in general

> > and of indu Tantrism in particular.

> >

> > As for me, I am an Upanishad man... :-)

> >

> > My drinks consist of orange juice and coffee.

> >

> > Ben

> >

> >

> >

> > , "adi_shakthi16"

> <adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> > > Summarising chapter 18, Sir John Woodroffe paraphrases the

> tantra:--

> > >

> > > "There are people who regard semen and menstrual fluid with

> disgust,

> > > but they forget that the body by which they hope to attain

> Liberation

> > > is composed of these two forms of matter, that the marrow, bone

> and

> > > tendons have come from the father and the skin, flesh and blood

> from

> > > the mother. It further says that there is no reason for man's

> disgust

> > > for excreta or urine, for these are nothing but food or drink

> which

> > > has undergone some change and contains living creatures and the

> > > Brahman substance is not absent therefrom...All things are pure.

> It

> > > is one's mentality which is evil." (KN, introduction, pp19-20)

> > >

> > >

> > > SO FOLKS, nothing is bad ; it is thinking which makes it so!!

> > >

> > > but by the same token as Lady Joyce so eloquently stated a few

> posts

> > > back , we need to respect our most beloved Harsha and this is his

> > > list ... we are his honored guests ... so out of respect for him,

> let

> > > us not use those F*** words ! OK?

> > >

> > > THANK YOU SWEET HEARTS!! i luv you all!

> > >

> > > ((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

> > >

> > > every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

[Guest guest]

, "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> well, ben!

>

> what do you know?

>

>

> i would like toshare with you the following !!

>

> " In India, urine therapy is called "shivambu": "Had our shivambu

> rishi (sage), great devotee, propagator and mighty supporter of

> shivambu movement, centenarian former Prime Minister of India,

> respected (late) Morarji Desai not boldly and emphatically

declared

> before the world that lie drank his own urine regularly and

 

Namaste,

 

Yes I remember at the Commonwealth PMs conference in Australia, some

years ago, Desai kept eveybody waiting. When asked about it the

Aussie PM, said, 'Oh its just old Desai being late, been on the piss

again." hahahahaha

 

I have no doubt some 'Soma' was drunk in India in the old Vedic

times. I did some psychedelics in the 60s and had a real spiritual

revelation one time on psylocibin. So I can see how it is a short

cut to observing a different reality, but I wouldn't advise it. You

may end up mad as a hatter like me----let me show you where the

rabbit hole goes hahahahah...........ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/2004 6:05:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

adi_shakthi16 writes:

 

every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Or better yet, say "Luck!!"

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben and Adi (is it?)

 

Something like "urine therapy" is clearly described in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rajayoga/EN/HathaYogaPradipika2003En.pdf

 

But before I comment on urine therapy, first this...

 

When reading this important document one has to consider that the commentary

provided is not at all part of the original document, and even what appears to

be original text is only an amalgam of various older separate scriptures. Some

of these scriptures again are only an overview of more in depth oral

transmissions (or transcriptions of those transmissions) that now have been

lost. Over the last years scrolls (long vertical wall charts) have been

recovered, many in Kashmir I believe, that seem to be copies of the older

material that at one point served as the source for current editions of Hatha

Yoga Pradipika.

I addition, sorry to say, usually the transcription and translation of many

passages of the Hatha Yoga Pradipika is very poor as the transcribers and

translators have themselves not experienced what the practices entailed and thus

they had a very limited understanding of what they were transcribing and

translating.

 

The following is an extended section of this text where the above mentioned mix

of original text, commentary and misunderstanding becomes clear:

The numbered paragraphs 32 and 37 are original, 33 to 36 are later insertions.

The many not numbered paragraphs are commentary, many of them, although

inspiring enough, clearly showing a lack of appreciation of what Kechari Mudra

actually is.

______________

 

KHECARI

 

32. The Khecari [is described]: when the tongue is turned back and enters the

cavity leading to the skull, and the eyes are fixed between the eyebrows, this

is Khecari Mudra.

 

The term "tongue" means the sattvic element water or taste. This element is

spherical like all elements, and is situated in the center of the head. It is

about twenty centimeters in diameter and it is really responsible for the sense

of taste.

"The cavity that leads to the skull" is the mental element around the head,

diameter of sixty centimeters and responsible for thinking. It is equal to the

forehead center or Ajna Chakra. The skull is the physical manifestation of this

energy sphere.

The spot between the eyebrows is a reference to the base of the nose. And that

means the origin of the sattvic element of the earth, or smell. This element is

located inside of the water element, somewhere near the middle of the skull,

maybe about at the Hypothalamus. It is about ten centimeters in diameter and

responsible for the sense of smell.

 

The exercise of Khecari Mudra consists of mentally lengthening the sattvic

element of water, stretching its normal limits, touching Chandra Bindu,

somewhere about fifteen centimeters above the crown of your head, while on the

other end, you connect the sattvic element of water to the smaller sattvic earth

element.

 

That the "tongue should be turned back" means that you go against the flow from

the gross to the subtle. Indeed, you have to respectively pass the spheres of

fire, air, and ether back to the mental.

 

33. By cutting, shaking and stretching, the tongue should be gradually

elongated, till it touches the middle of the eyebrows. Then the Khecari is

successfully accomplished.

 

Here creative visualization is demanded. Cut, as it were, the sattvic element

water from its normal place, and shake it from its normal condition. Stretch it

out, at one end keep it at the sattvic element of earth, at the other end touch

Chandra Bindu.

 

34. Taking a smooth, clean knife, very sharp like the leaf of the milk hedge

plant, cut to a hair's breadth [the phraenum or tender membrane that connects

the tongue with the lower part of the mouth].

 

For people who believe they can practice Yoga alone, or for those who are doing

this incorrectly, this clear information is meant. The expert will know

immediately that this is a trap, with a severe penalty.

 

35. Then rub [the part] with [a compound of] powdered rock salt and Haritaki

(yellow myrobalan). Then after seven days, cut [again] to the extent of a hair's

breadth.

 

It is more than a penalty, it is torture. And certain people have literally done

it! But luckily, most haven't continued, in spite of the fact that they still

believe that it should be done this way. Pity on them.

 

36. He should thus practice, gradually and skillfully every day for six months.

In six months the membrane which binds at the root of the tongue is severed.

 

The connoisseur knows this is a trap because Ahimsa is practiced first and

foremost in Yoga. All other techniques are based on nonviolence. And mutilation

is pure violence, isn't it?

 

37. Then, turning back the tongue, it should be made to enter the junction of

the three [Nadi’s, i.e. the cavity in the roof of the palate]. This is the

Khecari-Mudra. It is [also] called Vyoma Cakra.

 

Now back to serious information. "The junction of the three" is a description of

Chandra Bindu, the moon gate above the head. It is said that duality (Ida and

Pingala) ends there, and that you can reach unity there (Sushumna).

 

_____________________

 

#Wim

The following contains also a description of what occurred to me on my way to

unconditional love. I have discussed this at length with some very knowledgeable

people, to ensure that no self-deception on my part has taken place. My account

here is not meant to show off or set me apart, so be confident to know that if

some of what follows does not happen to you that you are in any way deficient.

Please do not look for this to happen to you, nor expect that it will.

Unconditional love and bliss also occurs without being accompanied by what I

describe below.

 

The original mention in Hatha Yoga Pradipika of Kechari Mudra (32) is followed

by a description of an artificial form of Kechari Mudra that had become a

practice in vogue with certain siddha yoga type of approaches. (Ramana was not

in favor of that). The description of this artificial procedure got at some

point inserted into the document.

For instance, the need to cut into the membrane underneath the tongue to help

the tongue reach back up into the cavity above the soft palate is absolutely not

needed. That procedure was a later practice to artificially stimulate the

production of amrita (ambrosia).

When Kechari Mudra happens spontaneously during the highest and deepest state of

unconditional love - an extremely lofty (and erotic) samadhi, the eyes are even

rolled back, the body in trance like condition - the soft palate pulls forward

all by itself and the tongue reaches naturally up to the bony structure that

supports the brain above the palate where the tongue finds an indentation. The

tip of the tongue then naturally massages a glandular structure that helps

produce the substance called amrita (soma, ambrosia, nectar or elixir of the

gods) that then drips down the back of the throat. Together with this, the

sweetest state of universal love engulfs the whole being.

After that happens once or for some a few more times, the Kechari Mudra per se

is not needed anymore as the nectar-drip is continuous from then on, and the

sweet state of love is one's permanent condition. (By the way the flow of amrita

fluctuates.)

Elsewhere I have described the physical nature of the substance of Amrita... it

may even be in the archives of HarshaSatangh.

 

On "urine therapy". In what follows I deleted the commentary...

 

AMAROLI

 

96. Then Amaroli [is described]: Discarding the first part of the flow of water

as it increases bile, and the last flow as being without essence, when the cool

middle part of the stream [of Amari] is absorbed, that is Amaroli according to

the Kapalika sect.

 

97. He, who drinks daily the Amari and inhales it day by day, should practice

well Vajroli. This is called Amaroli.

 

98. He should mix ashes with the nectar flowing from the Moon by the practice

[of Amaroli] and smear it on the principal limbs [of the body]. Then divine

sight is obtained.

 

---

 

Years ago Harsha and myself had quite a positive discussion on this.

People who go through some intense episodes of Kundalini, may spontaneously

arrive at the practices of "Urine Therapy".

 

If anybody wants to discuss this more, I'm willing to go deeply into this...

 

It is important to acknowledge that (although rare or strange) there is nothing

weird or pervert about anything in human life when it is lovingly benevolent,

non-manipulative and when it has an element of natural spontaneity.

 

Wim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

yes! dear-heart!

 

it has scriptural basis ! that is why i mentioned it!!

 

your 'adi' (just a name) does not say these things just for

the heck of it or to raise eyebrows!!

 

take care!!

 

a tantrika at heart

[Guest guest]

, zen2wrk@a... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 8/6/2004 6:05:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> adi_shakthi16 writes:

>

> every time you feel like saying F*** , say Duck!!!

>

>

>

>

>

> Or better yet, say "Luck!!"

>

 

it's quite f***, to duck the luck...

[x2x 0]

is there also a pranayama exercise called amaroli?

as for the urine therapy, I have tried it without any significant results, therefore I am rather sceptical...