Durgaputra

Sonic Yogi, That is just your thoughts- duly noted - and dismissed as being totally untrue. So people worshipping Kali for moksha are worshipping for "material gain" ? Such intolerance!! Did you even bother reading the words of the song posted here ? Regurgitation of what you have read somewhere without thought, understanding, or trying to understand what another person says is not wisdom.

Sonic Yogi, the meaning of your post is as discernible as the depths of mariana trench from the heights of the himalaya.

Instead of fighting over who came first or who is orginal or who is the best- do some more japa or whatever your practice is. Who has ever realised the supreme being- what/whoever you call Him/Her/It to be through argument and intellectual discussion ? Who came first matters only if these are mere intellectual concepts- not if it is reality. One can be a true Vaishnava/Shaiva/Shakta or any such thing only by practice and realisation- not by argument and rancour.

pandora, Wonderful question! Most people live exactly the kind of mechanical,scripted life that you describe. We have a choice not to and to connect and identify ourselves with our eternal and joyous spiritual self. This is why spirituality and spiritual practices give freedom.

I have met her too. Though I lack the discernment or the knowledge to distinguish between a siddha and a person of high spiritual attainment, she is certainly a person of very high spiritual attainment.

maha_shakti, Your talk about 'sane' siddhas reminds me of a Sufi story. In an isolated village, one day the water was polluted by something which would make everyone made on ingestion. So in the beginning, people were able to avoid it. But since it was the only water available, one by one, people were unable to do anything but drink it. At first, the mad people were called mad by the ones who had not drunk the water. But as the number of people who drank the water went on increasing and became a majority, it was the remaining sane ones who began to be called mad. So who is sane and who is mad ? Have you read what our scriptures say about paramahamsas and their appearance ? It is also quoted in the "Gospel of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa" I will reproduce it if I am able to find it.

Namaste! I do not like to offer unsolicited advice, but a number of posts on this list make me post this.. There is little or no difference in terms of karma as to whether you do something physically or through some mantra/prayoga. So if you kill, manipulate, cause suffering etc whether you do an actual knife/gun and other instruments to do it OR if you use mantra prayoga to do it- the result is the same. Except, in addition, the bad karma of misusing the mantra and possibly the anger of the diety also will come to you. In addition, the Guru also has to bear the effects. So using a mantra to do it means you need to be more responsible- NOT LESS. It is not for nothing that people who wrote the great compilations or tantras have specifically mentioned that people who take the mantras from books will go straight to hell.. This is not to be taken literally- but mantras which are used by a person who is not yet prepared can cause suffering thus in many ways. The Guru's grace removes much darkness from the heart( eventually all darkness) and we stop being inclined to do such activities that will increase others and our own suffering. In just initiating one, the Guru takes on some of your sins. If you are given a specific mantra or prayoga by your Guru- it is for YOU! It is not to be published or distributed without Guru's permission. In the wrong hands it can cause suffering and unless one has the vision to see if the hands it is going to are the right hands, it is better to avoid such deeds. Then again, there are lots of prayers and rituals which can do a lot of good- those can be used by anyone. Some of them are quite powerful. They also prepare one for higher things. Hanuman Chalisa and some other prayers are examples of this.

Siddha Kunjika stotram is meant to be recited in conjunction with Navarna mantra/Chandi Path-as you can read from the meaning. So it is better to start with what Kali Upasaka has prescribed. There is a way and a pace to proceed in spiritual matters. If you see, even most saints have chosen to get initiated and go along this route. There are very few siddhas who chose to be fully siddha even at birth. Go step by step.

Dear GoodSoul- it is important to take diksha from a Guru to do these kind of prayoga. When one undergoes such kind of suffering, it is often the result of past life karma. Do not add to such karma or delay it by doing such a prayoga. You would also be responsible for any new actions performed as a result of such a karma. One has to wipe out such problems from their source, by getting rid of the sanchita papa and preventing fresh sins from being committed. The only way is to perform some long term upasana - not mere kamya prayoga. As part of upasana, you may be able to do prayoga and sometimes, as a result of upasana, many such problems automatically disappear. Also, consider that there may be problems from your side as well.. there are often psychological blind spots which we possess which prevent us from identifying our own shortcomings. Any proper spiritual practice will help us identify and even otherwise destroy such shortcomings. Do not go in for short cuts.

Good points by Kali Upasaka. If you use the Gita press book, the 1st chapter and 5th chapter stutis are also found in the poorvanga and uttaranga( before and after) of the main text. You can also find the 4th chapter stuti called called Shakradikrita Devi stutihi and the 11th chapter stuti called Narayani Stuti. In the south of India, it is supposed to be very beneficial to do one namaskara( prostration) after each Sloka/verse in the Narayani stuti that ends with "Narayani namostute".

Angelic, These are NOT natural experiences of the path you have treaded except in some peoples fevered imagination. Without intention to cause insult to Neer- he/she is talking through his hat. There is a danger when you take up such practices without proper guidance. This is quite the same as doing kundalini yoga without guidance. Go get the proper guidance. You wont get such guidance on such forums as these. For one- the chances of great Gurus being there on this forum are rather limited. For another- this is as wise as having medical diagnosis and surgery done over e-mail( forget about all the other accoutrements of tele-medicine). There is nothing wrong with Hanuman Chalisa, but if your ishta deva is Chandi, then there is no reason you should not do Chandi path- UNDER PROPER GUIDANCE- I cannot over stress this point. If you were doing Chandi Path for kamya prayoga, the tradition is that it is not to be done without a full purascharana of the mantra being completed, which brings us back to the point about guidance. You can get it done by someone else for you as well..

Indian communist historians and their western masters agreeing on doing in Indians- surprised ? This has been what they specialise in since 1935. JNU is a hotbed of these fifth columnists and their so called intelligencia.

Namaste- I have only heard that they are good for kidney stones. Not sure about kidney failure.

Dear Angelic, One should do Chandi Path under proper guidance- best done under a Guru's guidance. Proper vidhi also needs to be followed. For now, you can ask for help from Swamiji at Devi Mandir on their . I presume from your question that you dont have a Guru now, so it is best if you search for one. ISCKON etc is also the same- it is another Guru parampara. Doing the same practice under a Guru's guidance is quite different from doing it by yourself. It is much more safer and more effective.

The existing financial system is totally divorced from reality. Take old age pensions- it is recommended to invest your money in a casino(stockmarket). Further, it is considered more important to have money in your old age than ensure that you have food on earth which you can buy with the money. Hence the greater importance given to financial systems than to climate change, which may mean that people may need to eat money in their old age and the world doesnt have enough arable land anymore. I am not sure Obama can do much more damage in such a stupid system.

Sonic Yogi, I still think you dont understand Vaishnavism either. Quote a minute is not going to do it. The same object is called many things by many people- using another word does not change its intrinsic nature either. Water, Voda or Jala is still the same thing. People south of the Sindhu( if you dont like the word Hindu), believe in experience- not talk of theory. A person with a good library does not a scholar make. So when I see you quote and display such anger and derision for others, I would say that your knowledge is only skin deep. Do some more japa, kirtana instead of pouring out anger and derision on the world.

Sonic Yogi, The fact is that ISKCON cannot claim to speak for all Vaishnava. And I dont know that you speak for ISCKON either. You seem to understand neither Vaishnavism or Hinduism, Vedas or Varnashrama it seems- when you speak about 'polar opposites' . Speak for yourself as an individual.

The quality of heat is not just for Devi mantra.It does seem to do that( increase heat)- but not in the sense of arousal- definetely not if one does it under a Guru. Gurus prescribe 1 mantra after the other depending on the person, so that ill effects are not felt. Each mantra is given at the right time to the right person. Prescribe is the right word, since it is like medicine for the soul. I think seetali pranayama is a good way to reduce the effect of heat on the human body. Also, there are other mantras which are to be chanted other than the mula mantra- Gayathri and Mahamrtyunjaya for example- to take care of other things. Some Hatha yoga is also good to ensure that the body is taken care of. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa described the effects of intense sadhana to be like 'an elephant entering a hut'. So it is essential to take care of the body when doing sadhana- regardless of whether one is a prince or a renunciate. This is not particular to Devi upasana. You could also ask this question on the Devi Mandir in case you dont get a good response here.

I cannot fail to mention here the "World Yoga Championships" - the title itself full of irony..

Spiritual practice can, will and must lead to less inclination to indulge in worldly activities and 'normal relationships'. It may be considered damaging from the wordly point of view. It (any spiritual practice) definitely is designed to destroy ones personality. It is meant to efface the lower personality and replace it with the divine one. If anyone engages in such practices expecting no such change, that is unrealistic. If one has a job which involves violence and or untruth, one may become unfit or unwilling to do such a job. One may become unwilling to associate with such people who do not talk about God or divine things and drag one to the lower states of being. It is totally unsurprising that the German government warns against this- modern economy is built on encouraging : Kama, Lobha, Moha etc- so any act that destroys these would be detrimental to the economy that is founded on the shadripu.

MacLeod, Books have always been available with mantras to those who wanted them- long before the invention of the internet- Plus la change....... It is not for nothing that many of the ancient books warn that the mantras therein are not to be chanted without Guru's permission and guidance. The reason for secrecy is because they can be misunderstood, misapplied and misused. Something akin to publishing bomb making techniques. In the wrong hands, they will blow themselves up or blow up others AND if one has such power- one scarcely wants to advertise- especially if one is a true upasaka and have no intention of using them. True seekers are not normally turned away. I am surprised at the orthodox attitude of such parampara. You can call it 'orthodoxised' as opposed to vedizated. The 'Vedas' dont really support such attitudes. Many of the books and traditions which those attitudes come from are from a later period.

Sar, We have a long tradition of calling India Bharatvarsha. So why would I go and call it Hindustan because some Arabs did it later( may be a 1000 years ago from today, but still later). So Deutschland is called Germany by English speakers, Allemagne by the French- does it mean Germans also call it by any of these names ? That said, I agree with your general premise. I have little time or regard for those who argue about whether Hari, Shiva or Shakti is higher. The time they spend in such arguments OR studying for such arguments, they could better spend in japa/dhyana.

Yes- revealing any details of your practice and talking about it to all and sundry is supposed to create obstacles to siddhi( mantra-siddhi- not the powers). I hope and continue hoping that there are many more hidden tantrika- because of all the different paths, these are some of the few where secrecy is obligatory. One of the things which prevent people from talking is the way everyone believes that theirs is the "Raja marga". AND the bad press which accrues to the word tantra and tantrikas. Could Bhairavi be from the Pancharatra tradition - which is an old tantra tradition for Vaishnava ? I heard a story about Gautama muni's curse on brahmins and was struck by the fact that the two paths which seemed to be looked down in that story were Pancharatra and Kapalikas. Times are such that it is not good to reveal even the fact that one is spiritual in many places. People are brought up to worship temporal things.. Tolerance for spirituality itself is low.. So I think it is possible that people have become even more secretive than they were even fifty years back. We have of course the consolation that That which is created can be destroyed, but that which is revealed is not lost for ever. When I myself take another body, I hope that these traditions are around to provide me the same light as they do in this lifetime.

Surprisingly, I have come across Sri Vidya upasakas having a "negative" attitude to Kali, though that may be that individual/sampradaya view.. You are right- Kali upasana does exist in these states- though it is more rare, hidden and does not have the popularity of this tradition in Bengal. Of course upasana is meant to be hidden in any case. The Nath/Siddha tradition has these in all these regions, though there are some external differences in the case of Nath and Siddhar tradition of South and North. On this topic, one thing the serious aspirant needs to be wary of in most ancient texts is the number of things one can do to go to hell/spend much more time in the cycle - even for the tantrika. I have found this in so many traditions and traditional books, I was surprised. The point is that these warnings were intended to create a certain impression amongst the readers of these texts...which themselves were meant for a certain 'target audience'. Since in a couple of centuries( at the least) the descendants of the target audience(us) would have changed our perspective. Without the living tradition, it is easy to misinterpret these texts.

Sar, I agree with you on the latest post- but the name Hindustan is of foreign origin. The land was called Bharatavarsha. For example, when you do a Puja, the traditional samkalpa is " Jambudvipe(sub-continent), Bharatavarshe( country), so and so pradeshe, so and so nagare, etc. It is possible that the purana that you quoted itself is of recent origin. Normally purana and Agama are themselves different kind of texts.. Our disagreement is minor- so if you could tell me where I can find this Purana( other than this newspaper reference) - I could look it up as well.