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matarisvan

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Posts posted by matarisvan


  1.  

    Vaishnavism is a minority.

    Notwithstanding the fact that Sri Shankara has written a 100 word poem describing his transcendental spritual state on remembering sri krsna, and that Vivekananda had taken hookah and meat on his voyage,there are no other saints who classify under your "majority" side of the religion.

    Tukaram

    Kabeer

    Meera

    Tulsidas

    Guru Nanak

    surdas

    naamdev

    chokhamela

    purandar

    jeev

    rupa

    sanatan

    gopal bhatta gosvamis

    ramanuja[jagadguru]

    madhva[jagadguru]

    vallabhacharya

    Vishnu swami

    Nimbarkacharya[jagadguru]

    Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu[jagadguru]

    Jnyaneshwar

    ramdas

    Sri Rambhadracharyaji[jagadguru]

    Srila Prabhupada[who equals thousands of jagadgurus]

    and of course Sant shiromani,Jagadguru Kripaluji maharaj[jagadguru]

     

    Minority? Hardly.Millions go every single year to Pandharpur.

    Millions visit Jagannath Ratha Yatra.

    Millions visit Badrikashram[shankaracharya restored badridham if you recall.]

    Countless pple follow these excellent,exalted saints.

    How many will walk thousnds of kilometers to honour,say vivekananda's beliefs?

    Sorry to awaken you to reality,but the answer is NONE.

    Smartas and Mayavadis may have all the discussions in the world.Dry speculation.It just satisfies their egos."Oh yes,I am Bhramn."But they CANNOT GO BEYOND THAT.Because the first step in spiritual realisation is ANTAH KARAN SHUDDHI.Shankara himself proclaimed this to his mother,that the mind CANNOT BE CLEANSED WITHOUT SINGLE MINDED DEVOTION TO HARI.

     

    No other saint has had a bigger impact than tulsidas.You may think different,but that's where the problem lies.It's what YOU think.

    And do correct me if i am wrong,how many jagadgurus has the smarta tradition produced?

    That's right.NONE.

     

    ramanujacharya [jagadguru]

    prabhupada[1000 jagadgurus]

     

    prabhupada is 1000 times better than ramanujacharya? please provide some data to support this. your personal sentiment is not acceptable data.


  2. Moderator,

     

    Feel free to delete this post if you find it inappropriate.

     

    Anyone who has spent some time on this forum should know that Hare Krishnas like theist are the biggest aparadhis here. They have no regard or respect for other people's beliefs. They have consistently mocked Advaita, Shaivas, Sai Baba and anything else they disagree with.

     

    Is this not some kind of conceited attitude to turn around and accuse others of Aparadha while pretending to be perfect? Hare Krishnas like theist are narcissists at heart. They are happy as long as they can say and do as they wish but start whining when they receive similar treatment from others.


  3.  

    Below it says, Darwin stole parts of his theory from the Vedas and combined it with his speculation. Because his theory contains parts of vedic knowledge people became bewildered and declared Darwinism as science.

     

    Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey’s tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, nonsense.

    Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he could only see as deep as the body. He could not see it was the soul…

    Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is… Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that, “We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men.” Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big—British. They wanted it. “British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world.” All Lords, Sirs, and this and that… They wanted to prove, “The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world.” And this was their pledge.

    Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For a while they did a pretty good job.

    Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time…, no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the… That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.

     

     

     

    Morning Conversation

    with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

    June 23, 1977, Vṛndāvana

    http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/770623rc.vrn.htm

     

     

    Very eloquent. If evolution is a vedic idea then why are hare krishnas criticizing it? For prabhupdas problem is that it was stolen from india and not about its correctness.

     

    Hare Krishnas form the most confused religious group I have ever known.


  4.  

    I hardly see hatred in calling a spade a spade. Since evolution is originally a Vedic idea, then passing it as one's own is a sort of rascaldom, especially when it is mixed with the demonic philosophy that life came from matter.

     

    really?? when prabhupada was criticized on this forum you and your friend were quick to label the critics as Prabhupada haters and vaishnava haters.

     

    different standards, eh? prabhupada and his followers can label anyone as rascal but they cannot be subject to similar criticism.


  5.  

    Chanakya Pandit: When milk which is pure product is given to a snake, it makes its venom more powerful. Similarly when pure knowledge is given to a person who has liking for Vice, allergical reactions are created.

     

    When he said part of Truth, he was subjected to so much of cruelty and you are asking me the effect of saying the whole Truth.

     

    I dont understand. Are you saying Jesus did not tell his disciples the name Krishna because he was afraid of torture? He was killed because he was seen as a political threat. The Romans were not concerned about the details of his teachings. Revealing the name krishna or not revealing it would have made no difference.

     

    What about Moses and the old testament? If they came from God why was the name Krishna absent in their teachings? There was no threat of torture at that time.


  6.  

    I like your broad minded inclusiveness in regards to theism. That is always a beautiful thing to see such a broad minded approach. :)

     

    You like broad minded thinking? Then you will have no problems with

     

    "Vishnu is a form of Shiva. Anyone who worships Vishnu is a Shaiva without knowing it".


  7.  

    Vyasadeva, who compiled the Puranas, has presented slokas about patanam (falldown), so has Bhaktivinode Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Thakura mentioned fall and no fall of the jiva.

     

    Srila Prabhupada has quoted Srimad Bhagavatam to stress the point about freewill causing the jiva to fall, so one cannot say that ISKCON devotees are the only ones who have spoken of the fall of the jiva from Vaikuntha and Goloka.

     

    http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-08/editorials2671.htm

     

     

    I do not see a single line in your post showing support from Vyasa for such a concept.


  8.  

    p.s. Hmm. Advaita... Have you see anywhere smth. formless ? ;) Illusion... I would to ask some advaitin to put his hand in a fire. Hope the pain will be illusionary, the game of the consciousness. :):smash:

     

    Advaita does not say fire and pain are illusory. This ia typical nonsense post from a Hare Krishna. Another Hare Krishna made a similar nonsense post that according to advaita I am you and you are me.

     

    I am not an advaita supporter...but this level of ignorance on the subject is hard to believe.


  9.  

    Namaste Sri RadheyRadhey,

    Thank you for answering my question. How come I got answers that it is not part of Hinduism? The person I asked was also a Gaudiya.

    You must have talked to a foreign born Gaudiya Vaishnava. As they are mostly born into Christian families, they would have a hard time converting to a Hindu sect. Therefore they were told that Gaudiya Vaishnavism is not Hinduism. There are several Gaudiya Vaishnavas on this forum who have all but admitted that they would not have converted otherwise.


  10.  

    Yeah that is partially why I have come to the conclusion that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Gaudiya Vaisnavism is a controversial and somewhat revolutionary branch of Hinduism. I remember reading in Prabhuapdas books something to the effect that traditional hindus often view Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Hare Krishnas as mere sentimentalists.

     

    To be fair you should not concern yourself with the opinions of others. If you believe it is that easy then you should follow it. But I can tell you for sure that no other tradition makes it so easy. It is not a one lifetime project like in christianity.


  11.  

    I didn't claim I would not be born again I was explaining that my understanding of Krishna Consciousness is if you chant Hare Krishna at the time of death you take on a spiritual body like Krishnas that is full of knowledge and bliss and you never have to return to the material world. If I am not mistaken that is what is presented in Prabhupadas books.

     

    No other vaishnava tradition makes it so easy. This sounds like christianity to me. This is another point difference between Gaudiya Vaishnavism and other branches of Vaishnavism.

     

    We understand it is hard to reach his lotus feet and it takes several lives of sadhana to get there. Until then, we will be born again and again in this world. Remembering Narayana at the time of death will take me closer the goal by putting me in a birth with favorable circumstances for my sadhana. But it will be a material birth on this planet.

     

    If chanting the HK mantra at death is enough then why did prabhupada ask people to chant 16 rounds daily and follow a number of rules? What happens to the Hare Krishna who does not know that he is going to die in the next few seconds or minutes and does not chant? like someone who is killed in a head on collision or dies in sleep.


  12.  

    My understanding of Krishna Consciousness is that you end up not taking on physical bodies anymore and you get a body like Krishnas that is full of knowledge and bliss.

     

    Are you saying you believe you will not have any more human births after this because you follow Prabhupada's teachings?

     

    I do not know any Guru who offers such a guarantee to his disciples. The Gita says it takes many many births for a jiva to get out the cycle of birth and death. It says such a soul is rare.

     

    can you please explain why you think you will not be born again?


  13.  

    Doesn't matter if he is a child molester or not. Just because you can cure some illnesses and do some magic tricks like producing vibhuti, doesn't qualify you to be God. I know better magicians than Sai Baba, and they never claim to be God.

     

    Did Sai Baba claim to be God or do his followers see him as God? There is a difference.

     

    According to you what are the qualities he should possess for him to be seen as God by his disciples or for him to personally make that claim? What is your position based upon?


  14.  

    If a guru is bona fide in a particular sampradaya, he is by definition, speaking from tradition. To question his authority is to question, either his succession or the entire sampradaya. Either way it makes a mockery of the system, because it is basic siddhanta.

     

    We differ here. If the Guru makes unsubstantiated claims, the disciple is not bound to accept them.


  15.  

    Sometimes pravacan can cross siddhanta. It does not change the siddhanta.

    Such statements about Christ were meant to bridge the cultural gap in order to spread Krsna bhakti.

     

    cbrahma has been arguing for a long time that the link between christ and vaishnavism is real and part of siddhanta. The traditional meaning of the term vaishnava was changed to make this link possble.


  16.  

    If there is no guarantee that a guru commits no error in siddhanta, what good is he?

     

    Who gives such a guarantee?

     

    No such guarantee is available in traditional doctrines. The guru must substantiate his teaching from scriptures. He cannot make things up and expect his disciples to believe him. Similar to a professor/student relationship where the student does not accept the professor's statement which cannot be backed by evidence. A traditional Guru who follows the proper approach cannot make thing up like christ loka or categorize people as avatars without support in scripture.

     

    The Guru's teaching is not accepted for sentimental reasons.


  17.  

    I don't know for sure but it seems that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Gaudiya Vaisnavism is kind of a controversial branch of Hinduism to traditional Hindus or at least it seems like on this message board.

    The dvaita website has posted a page describing the deviations of Gaudiya Vaishnavism from the traditional view. Some of them are,

    1. Traditional branches of Vaishnavism rely on a broad range of scriptures. But Gaudiya Vaishnavas rely fully on the Bhagavatam. As these texts can be interpreted differently, lack support from other valid scriptures has resulted in misinterpretation by Gaudiya Vaishnavas.

    2. Only Gaudiya Vaishnavas do not view Krishna as an avatar.

    3. Worship of Radha as a deity.

    4. Seeing Chaitanya as an avatar of Vishnu

    These and recent attempts to forge links with Christianity for wooing Christians and such other practices are the reasons for seeing Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a controversial branch. Idiotic and arrogant responses from some HKs on the forum do not help either.


  18.  

    I explain , I support with acarya authority, I affiliate with no group but still you must desperately have to take shelter of this platitude about 'groupies' and 'cults' without a shred of evidence to support your 'ad hominem' But then 'ad hominem' doesn't depend on evidence or logic for that matter.

    It is the mainstay of petty politics and guru politics is as petty as it gets.

     

    Kulapavana,

     

    Do you see cbrahma avoided your challenge to accept prabhupada made a mistake about the moon?

     

    He is incredibly stupid or very cunning. Both are equally bad.


  19.  

    That indeed... but of course these other Vaishnava acharyas are not acharyas at all for the cult grouppies: they are just sudra pretenders with sahajiya tendencies.

     

    These people can dish out disrespect, but have no stomach to take it themselves.

     

    Someone named realist suddenly jumped into the thread sometime back. In his eyes, people discussing scriptures are either gaudiya Vaishnavas or mayavadis. No other category exists for this genius.

     

    Same problem with many others here...vaishnavism is gauidya vaishnavism only. Their brains cannot comprehend the existence of other branches of vaishnavism in spite of them existing longer and in larger groups.


  20.  

    Muslims in general seem to be a lot like many Christians in the fact that they have seemed to miss the point of what their avatars were teaching.

     

    Is it not the same old arrogance again?

     

    Christians missed the point...we know this because we Hare Krishnas got the point.

    Muslims missed the point...we know this because we Hare Krishnas got the point.

    Hindus missed the point...we know this because we Hare Krishnas got the point.

     

    Ultimately Hare Krishnas have got everything right. These who differ have got it wrong. Plain and Simple.

     

    I am not as baffled by this arrogance as I am at the nonsense value of such an attitude towards religion.


  21.  

    Firstly the Brahma Samhita teaches us that Krishna is the cause of all causes, the original and only Supreme Lord or GOD.

    Brahma Samhita the scripture that has been known and followed for thousands of years by all Vaishnavas must be right compared to the Mahabharata and Puranas which are known only to Gaudiyas and are only a few hundred years old.

     

    Vishnu originates from Krishna and not the other way round as many Hindu's wrongly believe.

    It is sad that Hindus have decided to follow thousand of years of tradition and scriptures instead of learning the real truth about Krishna and Vishnu from iskcon Christians.


  22.  

    You'd probably take the same tone with Prabhupada. I didn't mention christ-loka so stop speculating nonsense.

     

    The same old hypocrisy and denial.

     

    Originally Posted by cbrahma

    The acaryas have every support from scripture. What is your scriptural reference to prove otherwise?

     

    My Response

    Calling your bluff....which scripture mentions christ-loka? If you cannot produce evidence then I suggest you keep silent and stop your long drawn nonsense on this forum.

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