Vedesu

Very nice question. I don't know if my answer will be what you are looking for, but since no one else has responded, allow me to give it a go:

As per the Sri Sikshastaka, chanting cleanses the dust which has accumulated within the heart over the course of innumerable lifetimes. Lust, anger, greed, pride, envy, and illusion are the 6 great enemies within which comprise most of this dust. These enemies are deeply rooted and often go unnoticed until we stir the pot, so to speak. Just like when making ghee, we boil the butter and the impurities rise to the top. Similarly, when we begin the chanting process, our enemies within, oftentimes having gone seemingly undetected for so long, thus rise to the surface, in all their ugly, abominable so-called glory. While disturbing to experience, the good news is that we are able to identify and isolate these enemies, and recognize them for what they are: unwanted things. It is easier to uproot the weeds when we can readily see them... much harder to do so when they are buried underground in root form. Continued chanting will dissolve the anger as well as uproot it. It is a gradual process, so patience and determination are required.

Also, if we feel overwhelmed by anger and other undesirable things, we can take solace in the fact that if we cry out to Krsna with feelings of helplessness, just like a baby crying for its mother, Krsna is karuna-sindhu, an ocean of mercy, and will lovingly reciprocate with us more than we can ever imagine.

When you speak of chanting in the park gHari, I thought you might like this:

Nice story, gHari. These forums have served many purposes, not the least of which is to hopefully give us some training so that we can better speak the philosophy in "real life." Many of us have been isolated for one reason or another and the forums truly did provide a sense of fellowship, even if there was a lot of bickering going on at times.

No, I wasn't Vedesu on SRV. But I liked his style. And I saw that whoever he was, he wasn't using that handle over here on AF, so I thought I would grab it up. My wild guess was that Krparama prabhu (owner of VNN) was Vedesu. I couldn't imagine him hosting those forums and not participating, but of course, I could be wrong.

You betcha, I hope to join you in the park someday! Let's keep the dream alive.

The end of an era, I suppose. Many of us were participating on the old VNN forums during the 90's before AF came along. Heck, I remember gHari from SRV, so I imagine some of us will be going through some withdrawal pangs after 13 years or so on discussion forums. But, time marches on. Most of the issues have been hashed out thoroughly and then some. I was even tempted to start one last thread on jiva tattva just for kicks. But I imagine one of the stealthy moderators would have slammed the door shut on that rather quickly.

Well, my dandavats to my godsister Sri Jaya Radhe Dasi, who left us way too soon. She had a heart of gold and loved Srila Prabhupada dearly. As did my godbrother Sriman Puru prabhu. I had always felt that after he left, something in the forums died as well. But then, that's just my own personal sentiment.

And farewell to all the devotees who seemed to just quietly vanish into the ether, such as Living Entity, Beggar, Audarya Lila, and so many others.

Namaste and Hare Krsna!

I don't know for sure how long Mrigendra was TP but he was for some short time.

I remember him as a part of the Dallas community in early '79, so apparently he didn't remain long as TP in the Windy City. Interesting how quickly things change. I wasn't a member of the Chicago Temple, although I visited a few times during the mid-70's and was there for the maha-initiation when all the RDTSKP busses were there. Anyone remember the devotee who took Babaji initiation at that time, I think his name was Audolomi? And wasn't there a devotee there named Pundarika who had memorized the entire Bhagavad Gita (an amazing feat at that time) and recited it to Srila Prabhupada?

When Uttama Sloka prabhu left Toronto, was it Vishvakarma who replaced him? My memory is getting really fuzzy these days. Glad you're writing these memoirs, Bhaktavasya Mataji. I remember that there was a famous letter to Sri Govinda regarding how everyone should go out on sankirtana, including the TP, and only 1 or 2 devotees to stay back at the temple? Some of the cooks and pujaris were made to feel (by some of the book distributers) that they were 3rd class members of the Movement. They required some gentle preaching that an army moves on its stomach, so to speak.

t

Could you elaborate please? Is that "t" for Trivikrama? Or perhaps "t" for Tulasi? Or perhaps it was a typo (common error, I do it all the time), and you meant "r"? If so, "r" as in Ramachandra? Or "r" as in Rudraksha?

I want to know where the TERM manjari starts showing up in the Gaudiya canon.

Interesting question. I hadn't really thought about it before. As you most likely know, Srimati Radharani isn't mentioned by name in the Srimad Bhagavatam, despite the fact that the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Krsna are the very essence of the 10th Canto. What I'm observing in some of the above posts is that the Acaryas in our line such as Srila Narottama das Thakur, Srila Sridhar Maharaja, and Srila Narayana Maharaja, and no doubt many others, being rasika, are able to extract the deeper meanings of Rupanuga Vaishnava sastra. Which in turn is proof that books alone will only take us so far. Guru is essential in unlocking the treasure chest. For that matter, without a pure Vaishnava Guru as our guide, most students will tend to drift towards an impersonal conclusion upon reading Sri Bhagavad Gita.

Still, that doesn't answer your question. I don't have the answer, although I would suspect that the term "manjari" would appear somewhere in the writings of the Six Goswamis. Sadly, I'm no scholar and have not read most of their works, thus anything I say would simply be conjecture.

Beautiful photos, Yasodanandana prabhu! Thankyou for sharing. It is always a sad time when a pure devotee leaves this world, or at least disappears from our mortal vision.

Is there any way you can visit both Temples for the time being? If Srila Narayana Maharaja is coming to visit in a few months, I would suggest that you go and have his darshan and hear his classes. In the meantime, do whatever you can as far as reading, chanting, praying, and serving. Krsna will reveal the answer to you in your heart. Hare Krsna!

Thankyou Prabhu. I always enjoy the photos of Srila Prabhupada that you share.

Again, more recycled propaganda which has been addressed numerous times. Why do some feel it is necessary to repost this type of poison from the Sampradaya Sun? I was appreciating what Sarva and others had to say on this thread, thinking we were making some progress in learning how to respect and appreciate other Vaishnavas (or at least avoiding disrespecting them) even if we ourselves choose not to be followers.

"Bhakti Caru Swami confirms that in Bengali Srila Prabhupada asked Narayana Maharaja to help us after his disappearance." - Giriraja Swami, Following in the Footsteps

Here is still another example of an apparent contradiction that is only apparent. Srila Narayana Maharaja's May 31, 2000 Los Angeles lecture was published on VNN. There he was explaining that Srila Prabhupada is in the line of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, not in the line of Maha-Visnu. Maha-Visnu's duty is to regulate the functions of the universe, and He also gives the yuga-dharma, the religious principles of the age. In this kali-yuga, when Caitanya Mahaprabhu came, the kali-yuga-dharma was nama-sankirtana. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, "I'll give nama-sankirtana, but I won't give it in the ordinary way that was given in previous kali-yugas by My Narayana expansions. I am going to give a special thing through nama-sankirtana." Yuga-dharma pravartana haya amsa haite. "My plenary portions can establish the principles of religion for each age. No one but Me, however, can bestow the kind of loving service performed by the residents of Vraja." This is from Adi 3.27.

 

What did Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu come to bestow? Unnata-ujjvala rasam sva-bhakti sriyam. Manjari bhava. He came to give the beauty of the mood of the manjaris, the intimate maidservants of Srimati Radhika. Srila Narayana Maharaja was explaining in that lecture that Maha-Visnu can establish the yuga-dharma. He can establish varnasrama-dharma and Vaikuntha-prema, but he cannot give Vraja-prema. Advaita Acarya, who is a manifestation of Maha-Visnu, felt that he could not give this Vraja-prema. He therefore prayed to Krsna to come Himself. Previously, after leaving this world five thousand years ago and having gone back to Goloka Vrndavana, Krsna felt a little unfulfilled. He'd thought, "I gave varanasrama-dharma and I gave love for Me in awe and reverence, but I did not give that love by which even I am amazed. I want to give the love of the Vrajavasis, and particularly the love of the gopis." He wanted to do it, but He didn't know exactly when He was going to come. By Advaita Acarya's prayers, He thought, "Now I am coming." This is all explained in the third and fourth chapters of Caitanya Caritamrta.

 

In that lecture Srila Narayana Maharaja said that Advaita Acarya could not give Vraja-prema as Maha-Visnu. He had first given a lecture like this is 1993. Just as in the year 2000, in 1993 he was trying to show that Srila Prabhupada is not a servant of Maha-Visnu. Prabhupada did not ultimately come to this world to teach Bhagavad-gita and establish varnasrama. Rather, he taught these as necessary stepping stones to his real aim of teaching the glories of Vraja-bhakti and how to attain it.

 

At that time, in 1993, not having heard his words clearly, some devotees misunderstood that Srila Maharaja was saying that Prabhupada was only a servant of Maha-Visnu. They thus sent propaganda around the world that he was minimizing Prabhupada. Those who had not heard Prabhupada say so many times that Bhagavad-gita is the ABC of Krsna consciousness, and those who did not know that Srila Maharaja would be spending years of his time to give the world Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura's commentaries on Bhagavad-gita in Hindi and English thought that Srila Maharaja was minimizing Bhagavad-gita. Over the next eight years, on various occasions, Srila Maharaja made his point again and again, just to establish that Prabhupada is in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and his aim and object was to give manjari-bhava. Srila Maharaja wanted us to understand this because without fixing our goal of life, we can never get there.

 

Now, in 2000, just to again show Prabhupada's glory as being in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Srila Maharaja said that Advaita Acarya, as Maha-Visnu, cannot give Vraja-prema. That L.A. lecture was published on VNN, and, as we know, whenever there is a VNN article on any subject, there is a rebuttal. Somebody wrote an article that Srila Narayana Maharaja was wrong. He said that Advaita Acarya can give Vraja-prema, and he can give the love of the gopis." Then, to counter that, some of Srila Narayana Maharaja's disciples wrote, "No, he can't."

 

A few days ago we found out that neither is actually correct. A devotee brought this topic up to Srila Narayana Maharaja, and Srila Maharaja replied, "I did not have so much time on that day, so I could not explain fully." He then explained that as Maha-Visnu, alone, Advaita Acarya could not give Vraja-prema. However, as the associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he was drowning in Mahaprabhu's tears and ecstatic love. How could he not be able to give Vraja-prema at that time? He could not give the love of the gopis, but he could give sakhya-prema, and something of vatsalya-prema. He could give Vraja-prema, because he was drowning in the ocean of Mahaprabhu's madness in Vraja-prema and he understood the purpose of Mahaprabhu.

 

Srila Maharaja often quotes the following lila from Sri Caitanya Caritamrta: When it was time for Caitanya Mahaprabhu to leave this world, Sri Advaita Acarya wrote a letter to Him. This letter was so confidential that only Svarupa Damodara and Mahaprabhu, and very, very few associates could understand it. He wrote, "Now there is no more demand for rice in the market place." What was the meaning? "You can close up the 'shops' now." What is the rice? That rice is Vraja-prema, particularly gopi-prema. "There is no more need of rice in the market place. You brought so much rice. Now everyone has bought rice. Now everyone is fully satisfied. There is no more demand, so You can wind up Your pastimes and go back to Your own abode. This is a letter from one mad person to another." When Caitanya Mahaprabhu heard and read this letter, He became very grave and thoughtful. At that point His separation for Krsna doubled, more than doubled. He became totally mad in separation from Krsna; and soon afterwards He left this world.

 

In this way there is no contradiction. Even if there seems to be a contradiction in Srila Narayana Maharaja and himself, there is not. There is no contradiction between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada, nor is there a contradiction between Srila Narayana Maharaja and Srila Prabhupada or any other bona fide acarya. It is, on one hand, simply a question of who can hear what at what time. On the other hand it is a matter of getting further clarification through inquiry. So many of Prabhupada's disciples left after his departure, not being able to reconcile his apparent contradictions, which were only apparent.

Full rebuttals to all the recycled arguments can be found at the Refutations Archives.

Yes, it is very auspicious to keep Ganga Jal at your home. If a family member becomes ill and is close to dying, you would definitely want to give Ganga Jal to your loved one. Always keep some on hand if you are able to.

There is a Refutation Archive at BVML with numerous position papers which address nearly all of the accusations raised by Parasurama das:

http://bvml.org/ref/index.html

Parasurama's paper is nothing new. It's pretty much the same old recycled nonsense that pops up once or twice every year.

Srila Narayana Maharaja has never criticized Srila Prabhupada as some allege:

In regards to the now infamous transcription of the taped conversation with Srila Narayana Maharaja where he supposedly suggests that Srila Prabhupada was a bhakta of Mahavishnu, it must be made clear that just the opposite happened. In the conversation Srila Narayana Maharaja asked his audience a rhetorical question, “So, that means that Srila Prabhupada was a devotee of Maha Vishnu?” When that statement became transferred to paper, it remained the same, but lost its rhetorical and questioning tone. Thus it appeared that he was making a statement about Srila Prabhupada’s status as a bhakta when in fact he was assuring Srila Prabhupada’s disciples that their guru’s mission was that of giving Krsna-prema with the holy name. He was differentiating this as Lord Chaitanya’s special mission, for nama bhajan is given in other yugas by Maha Vishnu, whilst the ability to couple the name with prema remains the special reserve of Mahaprabhu.

Regarding Srila B.P. Puri Maharaja:

On hearing the allegation, a number of devotees, including disciples of Srila Puri Maharaja, were upset that such a venerable Vaishnava could be used in this way. Some of the devotees approached Puri Maharaja in Navadvipa at the beginning of July for clarification on the matter. He said, “The Iskcon devotees came to me and asked several questions. And based on their questions I answered in a particular way. And now they are using it against me by using my words against Srila Narayana Maharaja. Why are they doing that? Srila Narayana Maharaja is a bona fide preacher in our line. We are very happy that he is going to the West, and devotees should follow him. He is a rasika Vaisnava.”

As an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada, I must say that I am quite embarrassed that some of my Godbrothers continue to engage in the inauspicious activity of propagating Vaishnava aparadha. Surely, Srila Prabhupada cannot be pleased with this.

As we approach the full moon and the new moon, the watery portion of our bodies is enhanced by the movement of the earth, the moon and the sun, and thereby the enjoying spirit is also developed.

Also, from the spiritual perspective, Krsna Himself also feels more necessity for enjoyment, and when Krsna feels more necessity, the devotees have a greater chance to offer service. The time is more valuable for them, because Krsna wants to enjoy, and at that time, devotees should be busy to supply the things for His enjoyment - so much so that they won't have any time for their own necessities. So, the first reason is to please Krsna and the secondary reason is, that by fasting, we can make our body dry and so our enjoying spirit will be lessened. This is the general explanation. There are so many other things also.

Thankyou Laulyam Prabhu. Excellent realizations by His Divine Grace Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaja.

PS: A hearty welcome to our newest member: soda. But he wasn't the only one who joined today, so lest I leave the others out, a great big hearty welcome to our other newest members: lakshmanan, msnamita, dr. yashpal, and lalie. Also to info, NENGLES, buddha2k, and any others who may yet join today!

Also, Audarya Fellowship has 3 members who are celebrating birthdays today!!! A great big Hari Bol shout out and HAPPY BIRTHDAY to: RonPrice <!--rlm-->(64), <!--rlm-->Sandeep123 <!--rlm-->(30), and <!--rlm-->innahc <!--rlm-->(23), may they attain love of God within a very short time!

Prabhupada: I never said that.

http://www.hknet.org.nz/SP-INeverSaidThat.html

75-09-02.Omk Letter: Omkara

Please accept my blessings. I have seen your letter dated August 17, 1975 and have noted the contents. I never said there should be no more marriage. By all means legally you can get married. How can I object? They misunderstand me. Unless it is there from me in writing, there are so many things that "Prabhupada said."

I was expecting, or at least hoping to see an apology from the author of the post above for his extremely rude and seethingly hateful replies to Stonehearted, but unfortunately, I was disappointed to witness yet more venom spewing from this ritvik spammer. He was asked for a simple reference to a "Prabhupada said" but was unable or unwilling to provide one, and when he felt (wrongfully) that his authority was supposedly challenged, he reacted in a way which is not exemplary from one who wants to be known as a Vaishnava.

thanks for your kind reply. but i have read that "Ganoderma is a type which is growing in a dense forest from a dead trees. and this one type has around 300 and more medicinal effects. so as medicine it can refer to take or not?

I want to know what is the view of "srila prabhupad" over this mushroom and what is the reason we should not take it in our regular food?

I'm not aware of Srila Prabhupada saying anything specific about this particular variety of mushroom. It may be cleaner, it may be healthier, but it's still a fungus and I've never heard of any type of mushroom being offered to the Deities in any of Srila Prabhupada's Temples. IMHO, I would think it to be okay to consume for medicinal reasons. Just prepare it separately from your regular food that you offer. Again, this is just my humble opinion. Devotees are allowed to take medicines without offering them.

Also, mushrooms are fungus (the fungus among us.) And usually they are grown in filthy places. They used to be grown in stool, but I'm not sure to what extent that is true now. They are unofferable to the Deities. It isn't a pakka foodstuff. There are so many other wonderful foodstuffs to prepare for an offering.

If you require mushrooms for the medicinal value, I would think it would be ok to just take it as medicine, rather than trying to offer up something as "food" which is highly questionable.

And to make sure the Krsna Kirtan continues, we have Krsna Prasadam!! And what a feast it was!! Fresh sweet rice made from Jersey cow milk, samosas, subji with curd, and chapuris cooked in cows ghee. There is absolutely NO COMPARISON to this kind of transcendental foodstuffs in the world--it is NOT of this world--it comes directly from Vaikuntha, as Krsna's mercy.....

 

 

 

 

So, everybody convinced this IS a BETTER way to live???

 

I'm a believer! But do they serve laddu? At least once in a while? If so, I want to join up! But I need some laddu. And some Gauranga potatoes now and then. And hot milk before taking rest. That's all I ask.

Wise. Good to hear from you.

I was thinking the same thing. Good to hear from you Beggar prabhu Ji. I was sorry to observe that the meeting of the minds never really took place, which makes it nearly impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion. Yep, all we can do is chant. Well, that (Nama-kirtana) and the other 4 most important items of Bhakti as given by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to Srila Rupa Goswami: Sadhu-sanga, Bhagavat-sravana, Mathura-vasa, and Sri-murti-seva. Hari bol!

Yes, I am also waiting to hear any news. Hopefully the yurts and the ashram were fully spared, which would also mean that your books were spared, Babhru prabhu. Assuming the property was spared, will the cows be brought back, and if so, is there any land left for them to graze upon? That was wonderful the way the neighbors all came together to help one another, regardless of any philosophical or cultural differences.

Dear Bija prabhu,

Thankyou for sharing. It's quite obvious from your posts that you are not promoting anything dangerous nor are you promoting mayavada doctrines or even entertaining such ideas. No need to worry about that. Accept everything favorable for devotional service and reject everything unfavorable. If a hug from an elderly lady or a kitty cat or a banyan tree or the lampost out on the street (or whatever else) inspires you to chant intense, blissful, heartfelt rounds of japa, feeling your devotion grow in leaps and bounds, I say go for it. And may I be so fortunate to find such inspiration from such unlikely sources.

There is certainly a shortage of love in this world, and this forum is no exception. Perhaps we have something to learn about loving exchanges from other people and other groups. Srila Prabhupada encouraged us to become swan-like, to learn how to extract nectar even from a filthy place.

I very much appreciate your outlook on life, always feeling extremely grateful and always counting your blessings, through the good times as well as the bad.

(cbrahma I know when you see that I have posted you will unblock me to see what I say' date=' you don't have enough self-control to do otherwise! (HA HA HA!)[/quote']

 

That's a fact. He wouldn't have anyone to argue with if he stopped reading posts from his perceived "enemies."

Again all you do from one person to another is fight and argue' date=' from one thread to another and it does not matter what you believe at the time (the change is from one year to the next) yet you are ALWAYS RIGHT and everyone else is wrong whatever you happen to be believing at the time.[/quote']

 

That about sums it up.

Gopala Bhatta was my Guru Bhai from Detroit from way back before he was TP in LA (BTW he sent for me be his assitant in LA)

Small world! He was my Guru Bhai there as well, for a while. I also remember seeing Gopala Bhatta in Dallas in '79, but that might have been just after he was TP in LA, if I'm remembering correctly. I'm trying to place who you might be, but I've lost touch with the devotees I once knew in Detroit. Anyway, nice to have you here on the forums, Prabhu.

One may infer from the strategic comma placed after 'low born' and the 'as well as' that sudras are not low-born.

That's because they are not 'low born' either since they are one of the four varnas. They may be lower than vaisyas but they are within varnasrama.

Mleechas, dog-eaters, Barbarian tribes etc are lowborn. Maybe some can quote this post since cbrahma blocks all my posts.