HerServant

True. Your response is a form of violence. You are using scripture to "argue" and create division as opposed to unity on a "Spiritual Topics" thread enjoyed by devotees. Your presentation of scripture is similar to what I've seen from fundamentalist bible thumping preachers, that you seem to despise. In fact your response above bears the Truth of Jesus words. You wouldn't happen to be also at odds over religious matters with someone in your family, circle of friends, or extended family?

right here: Jesus is indifferent from His words (teachings).

I fully understand that Catholicism is "not working" for many of us, particularly in the industrialized nations. However, it is thriving in Africa, India and in non industrialized nations. I am an eastern Rite catholic and I have association with Catholic monks who are also Sannyasi. One such sannyasi is a Vaisnava in the line of Srila Prabhupada AND a Catholic hermit, and has also taken the Boddhisattva vow. We consider it acceptable to read and study BG, SB and other Vaisnava literatures. Regarding Mary and her appearances all over the world, I say that this is self explanatory. If Divine Mother chooses to reveal herself Ma Durga, who am I to have any objection. But since you have affection for Mary, you can contact her ecstatic Joy in rememberence of the mysteries of Jesus lila. For example, please remember Mary's mood as she conceived the Christ child within her. She is rapt in ecstatic loving exchange. By her relation with Jesus we can understand Him. And by Him, we can obtain the Mercy of Krsna. I've said time and time again, in order to really experience Madhurya rasa (Mary's bridal chamber), one must fall into the kind of transcendental ecstacy displayed by Sri Chaitanya upon entering Jaganath Puri. In other words, the pastime of conjugal love is beyond the spiritual sky. This is almost impossible for anyone on the planet, and certainly far above me. This also why Mary's mystery of Coronation or Queenship, is the final Glorious Mystery of the rosary. This lila takes place in Heaven, .. we can't be witness very easily while living with "one foot" in this material world. Only the most pure saint will be given her grace to enter there. I am a catholic, but a vaisnava kind, expressing my bhakti in the eastern tradition (st. thomas) of Jesus Parampara / Sampradaya. Sending warmest wishes and blissful love. HerServant and yours.

Unlike many other religious texts, the account of Christ's teachings (Gospels) are non violent. Jesus teaches: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" - Matt. 5:44 Therefore Jesus' teachings are embraced by sattvic followers of other faiths. For some reason, there are members on this forum that repeatedly attack Jesus Christ for actions of maya covered sinners. This antichrist sentiment among "vaisnavas" is paradoxical. So many religious scholars, (including Srila Prabhupada consider) Jesus a Vaisnava. I am reminded of Gandhi's embrace of Jesus' teaching of non violence to break the bonds of British rule in India. source : http://www.catholicdestination.com/article_info.php?articles_id=36

Your final comment, "Just keep your suggestions to yourself" sounds like a direct order. Is it? My previous post made no suggestion to you whatsover. I merely raised an indirect question which you chose not answer. I did not request that you ask "permission" or seek my "approval" to post here. I wish you the best of luck in you studies.

The title of the thread is "Jesus is the Reason - Part II". Perhaps you are not familiar with the saying "Jesus is the reason for the season", but the intent of this thread was as a tribute by Vaisnava "Lord Jesus bhaktas". Since you are a proclaimed "agnostic" I am baffled by what motivates your desire and intention to post in this forum, and particularly in a thread about Jesus. Now that is bizarre. "I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" - Luke 12:49

Very interesting. We have to understand that every institutionalized religion has failings. This has to do with the influence of maya and our human tendencies/attractions to the tamasic, rajastic, and sattvic. In fact, your "priest" did not even fully understand Catholic teaching of "Lumen Gentium". That is the catholic church does not reject Truth in any other religion. But that is a whole different topic. The power of Srila Prabhupada's message and the sankirtan is that it is NON SECTARIAN! Problems arise when religious organizations try to make God fit into a particular, sectarian form of worship. For example, the Catholic church, at is essence, is the Credo (belief in Triune God and Christ the Savior), the sacraments (Holy Communion as maha prasadam), and the saints, the highest being Mary as she IS the church! The power of the saints flows in thread of disciplic succession and comprises GSS (Guru Sadhu Sashtra). Now everyone was supposed to be allowed to worship within their own cultural expression, hence the word "Catholic" ie. "universal". But religionists mixed in the three modes of material nature have perturbed the pure message. There were tremendous battles between religious orders (e.g. Dominicans vs. Jesuits ) regarding "forms of worship". In one period the Dominicans drove Latinization (all worship in latin) against the Jesuit philosophy of Inculturation (adopt cultural expression and song most familiar with the people). I see pure, non sectarian "vaisnavism" as a "catholicuniversal" teaching. I need only the most basic elements. Devotion to Mary as she is bhakti love of God personified. Hence, in the making of bhoga I ask her to help her prepare a meal for the child Jesus! I can recite hare nama in her rosary. Or I can contemplate her love for God when reciting maha mantra. All of these practices are completely acceptable for a catholic and actually are permitted in the catholic church! In the catholic church there is such a thing as "private revelation". It means that God can speak "privately" to any person and these things God reveals directly to His devotee. What is not permitted is me to broadcast this message as "universal" without first having the permission of the church. So I have met many vaisnavas who consider me friend and a vaisnava. My shelter is the Blessed Mother, and in her house I can be whomever I wish (servant, friend, child, or silent witness to her activities). Remember, we are dealing with people and the phenomenon of "pure association". I have always been blessed to associate with very holy priests. Finally WE (the devotees) are the social body of God (aka "the church") on this earth. It's not complicated though we keep trying to make it complicated. The teachings of Jesus are to prepare meals and break bread together in rememberence of God (Jesus lila for Jesus bhaktas). We can distribute prasadam. . We can chant the holy name (rosary in my case). I take the shelter of in the tender love of the Blessed Virgin Mary. She's the most catholic (universal) and I don't need anything else. Sending love, Her Servant and yours.

You said you were Catholic? Which ancestors are you refering to? You parents? Please provide details? If these "butchers" butchered you ancestors, then how is it that you were "Catholic"? Please explain. More criticism. What are your qualifications? Have you taken Sannyasi? BA Gosvami is very scholarly and his approach is academically sound. He includes references to history, tradition, archeology and linguistics in much of his writings. What are your academic qualifications? you say "not physical" .. The purusha sukta self sacrifice is performed to create the entire cosmic (physical) manifestation! But rather than debate you further, I refer you to Mary. Whatever you say about Jesus, you say about Her. - Letter to Sivananda NY April 19, 1968

"(even as a Catholic, before I gave up that tradition)" - is that right? Were you fasting, receiving communion, and the sacrament of reconcilliation weekly? Were you praying the rosary and meditating on its sacred mysteries daily? These are things that practicing catholics do. As a catholic, did you surrender your life completely to Mary? If not, when did you renounce your vows and withdraw your devotion from Mary Queen of the Universe? Prayer of Total Consecration By St. Maximilian Kolbe Immaculata, Queen of heaven and earth, refuge of sinners and our most loving Mother, God has willed to entrust the entire order of mercy to you. I, N..., a repentant sinner, cast myself at your feet humbly imploring you to take me with all that I am and have, wholly to yourself as your possession and property. Please make of me, of all my powers of soul and body, of my whole life, death and eternity, whatever most pleases you. If it pleases you, use all that I am and have without reserve, wholly to accomplish what was said of you: "She will crush your head," and, "You alone have destroyed all heresies in the world." Let me be a fit instrument in your immaculate and merciful hands for introducing and increasing your glory to the maximum in all the many strayed and indifferent souls, and thus help extend as far as possible the blessed kingdom of the most Sacred Heart of Jesus. For wherever you enter you obtain the grace of conversion and growth in holiness, since it is through your hands that all graces come to us from the most Sacred Heart of Jesus. V. Allow me to praise you, O sacred Virgin. R. Give me strength against your enemies. St. Maximillian Kolbe St. Max gave his life for Mary and others. He was a Catholic priest that lived as a prisoner in a Nazi concentration camp. If you like spending your time critizing others, then I would say that you found the right group (ISKCON?) . They seem to spend so much energy on lofty intellectual topics, being "topmost devotees", putting Jesus Christ as at best equal to an ISKCON guru, and sometimes not even a guru at all. Not me. The "good as Jesus" champions have all fallen down. And in case you haven't notice ALL teachers among ISKCON who have preached a message about Jesus have all fallen down or suffered greatly. Anyone can offend Jesus and he tolerates, but His Blessed Mother does not. But as for me, I will stick with trying to be a Catholic (and take inspiration from Srila Prabhupada's works), acknowledge my failings, make small attempts at living for others, and pray to our saints who have "clothed the naked", "fed the hungry", "cared for the sick and dying" and so on. Finally, if you are still reading this, you can never understand why Jesus had to die unless you embrace His cross. Only He can reveal the mystery of His self sacrifice. You can start with asking why God sacrifices Himself as described in the Purusha Sukta Hymn:

Thank you for your sweet devotion! Hail Mary comes from the words Ave Maria. Ave means "all offer obeisances" or "all bow down" and the "ave" was uttered by an angel. Hence in saying Ave Marie, "Hail Mary" we unite to all of the devas offering obeisance to Mary! In fact, more than one of Srila Prabupada's devotees agree that Jesus can only be understood by (through) Mary. Peace and love, Her Servant and yours. Below are some of her names known in east and west. ---- RADHA is ... RHODA is... 1 RADHA RHODA, ROSE 2 HARE KORE 3 SHAKTI SHEKINAH, SEKHET 4 NARI, NARAYANI MARY, MARIAM, JUNO MARINA 5 ISHVARI ISHISH (Hebrew), ISIS 6 YAUVANI JUVENTAS 7 VASUDEVI BASILEA 8 DEVI THEA, DIA 9 RAJANI, RANI REGINA 10 TARA, ASTRAYA STELLA, ASTERIA 11 'Lunar' ROHINI LUCHINA 12 PADME (LOTUS) NYMPHIA (LOTUS) 13 JIVA SHAKTI HEVE SHEKINAH (EVE), ZOE, BIA, BA (Egypt), HEBE 14 LAKSMI FORTUNA-MONETA (TYCHE as LADY LUCK) 15 SARASVATI SARA-CHOKMAH-SHEKINAH 16 HARINI CORONIS 17 TULASI BASILEA as MOTHER MOST TOLERANT(TULA) Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. - Letter to: Sivananda -- New York 19 April, 1968 68-04-19

Guruvani wrote: Guruvani raises I believe many interesting and honest points of inquiry and his above is no less interesting. First, one does not have to accept the Jesus of history just as one does not have to accept the Krsna of history. It is the Krsna of faith that one must accept, because all of Lord Krsna's transcendental pastimes are revealed only to the faithful. Further, the Krsna of Faith reveals pastimes which are beyond time and space. This is also true for Jesus. The Jesus of Faith is beyond historical evidence. For example, Jesus of the Virgin Birth, Jesus walking on water, .. this Jesus has no basis in scientific fact. Yet it is this Jesus that is the Jesus of faith .. the Savior Lord, who would renounce His divinity and stoop to be born a helpless babe in a stable. Whether your faith is in Jesus and you go to Krsna through Him, or whether you faith is in Krsna and Jesus is an inspiration, the reason for the season remains the same: .. That God's love will stop at nothing to shatter our heart of stone and bring us back home ... back to Godhead. Her Servant and yours.

Amen. Om! Hare Krsna! Jaya Radhe Maria! Yes indeed beautiful. In fact by meditation on this mystery Mary reveals a deep ecstacy of love. Love of Christ child within her, and sharing her joy with her cousin Elizabeth. Elizabeth is also pregnant with John the Baptist. John the Baptist as a fetus too "leaps (with joy)" in the womb of Elizabeth upon her meeting of Mary. The mystery teachings in Jesus parampara / sampradaya are to contact Jesus by way of the memory and contemplation of Mary! Her mood and ecstacy is completely accessible to us. Jaya Radhe Maria! Jesus ki Jaya. All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga! - source: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html

Hare Krsna! I am not trying to attack you or your logic. I am just reminding (all of us) that we need to be careful. We have to be careful not to categorize the entire group with the actions of the majority. I think by studying the traditional Christian roots, we will find a deep history in non meat eating, going back to Jesus Himself. People claim Jesus ate fish. This is OK. Fish eating is considered acceptable by many in the east. A fish has to be caught and it can't be caught but by the mercy of God. Many villages and people rely on fish for nutrition. For example, Inuit Eskimos .. can they survive without fish? It is not so easy. And does Krsna condemn them because they are Eskimo? Do we say that is their karma? This is absolute nonsense. IMHO Therefore, to preach to Christians about non violence and non meat eating it is best to first learn about Jesus' sacrifice of Himself to end lamb slaughter of Passover and replace the old law with the new covenant. Thereafter, the Christian ascetics largely practiced austerities including abstinence from meat, and in many cases, anything from the animal (vegan). It would be better to revive the bhakti traditions in Jesus Parampara / Samradaya and in this way promote the mission of Sri Chaitanya (no hard and fast rules ). If the Christians realize that they have fallen away from the authentic and traditional practices within their own tradition, then they will accept the principles of Gaudiya Vaisnavism more readily. We don't need to attack the Christians to deliver the message, but rather remind them that Jesus expects more of them. Her Servant and yours.

Svarupa prabhu, Your distaste for Christianity is clearly noted, but I think you should at least consider that you may in fact need to do more research before you make broad categorical statements. First of all, the ascetic practices in Christianity are well documented and clearly Christian ascetics for centuries have offered their senses with more rigor than most if not all on this forum will ever do. Secondly, that these ascetics (sadhus) offer their sacrifices for all people on the planet (as is expressed in their prayers and writings). You should note that the "body of Christ" (aka the Christian Church) is generally "divided" into two parts, Religious and laity. There are rules for Religious (vowed) and non religious (non vowed). In general, I believe the non vowed are permitted to eat meat (WITH RESTRICTION) , but a large contingency of vowed do not. - source: http://www.geneseeabbey.org/faq.html#vegetarian It should be noted that the rule of St. Benedict is over 1500 years old and that a large percentage of Catholic monks adhere to its rule (Cistercians, Trappists, Carthusians, Camaldolese) Also the Franciscans have a long tradition of abstinence from meat. It should also be noted that Jesus was Crucified specifically because He ended the meat eating practice of the Jewish Passover! "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" - Luke 22:20 Jesus uttered the words above "on the night he was betrayed" - 1 Corinth 11:24 He replaced the ritual slaughter of innocent lambs for Passover with Himself! And for this, He laid down His life. In fact, at the time of Jesus, it was impossible for a Jew to completely abstain from meat eating (animal slaughter). This is because the passover meal required that a lamb be slaughtered. For more on Christian Abstinence from meat see: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm

THE GREEK CHURCH In the Greek Church the law of abstinence is designated by the term xerophagy in contradistinction to monophagy, signifying the law of fasting. In its strictest sense xerophagy bars all viands except bread, salt, water, fruits, and vegetables (St. Epiphanius, Expositio Fidei, xxii; Migne, P.G., XLII, col. 828; Apost. Const., V, xviii, ap. Migne, P.G., I, col. 889). On days of abstinence meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese, oil, and wine are rigorously interdicted. This traditional custom of rigorous abstinence still binds the Greeks on all Wednesdays and Fridays, on all days of their Major Lent, including Saturdays and Sundays, except Palm Sunday, on which day oil, wine, and fish are now permitted, and on the vigils of Christmas and Epiphany. Xerophagy seems to have been obligatory only on these days. Another less severe form of abstinence, still common among the Greeks, prohibits the use of meat, eggs, milk, and sometimes fish on certain occasions. According to their present regime, the Greeks observe this mitigated form of abstinence during their Lent of the Apostles (i.e. from Monday after the feast of All Saints, celebrated on the first Sunday after Pentecost, until 29 June); during Mary's Lent (1-14 August); during Christmas Lent, or Advent (also called St. Philip's Lent, 15 November to 24 December); 29 August (commemoration of the Beheading of St. John Baptist) and on 14 September (feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross). The canonical regulations determining obligatory abstinence have suffered no substantial alteration during the lapse of many centuries. In its general outlines this legislation is the same for the Greek Church Uniat and non-Uniat. The Uniat Greek Church is not allowed to father any innovation without explicit authorization from the Holy See (Benedict XIV, Decret. Demandatam, # vi, in his Bullarium, I, 128, Venice ed., 1778). Though usage and dispensations have led the way to certain modifications, the canons covering this matter remain unchanged. Custom has made the use of wine and oil legitimate on xerophagy days. In many places fish is likewise allowed, except during the first and last week of their Major Lent. Goar (Euchologium, Venice, 1730, 175) says that the Greeks of his day were allowed by an unwritten law to eat fish, eggs, snails, and such-like viands on xerophagy days. Innovations in the duration of the Greek penitential seasons have originated in usage. Thus arose their practice of spending the week preceding their Major Lent in minor abstinence, as a prelude to the more rigorous observance of the Lenten season (Nilles, Kalendarium, II, 36, Innsbruck, 1885; Vacant, Dict. de théol. cath., I, 264). This custom lapsed into desuetude, but the decrees of the Synod of Zamosc, 1720 (tit. xvi, Collect. Lacensis, II), show that the Ruthenians had again adopted it. The Melchites have reduced their xerophagy during Christmas Lent to fifteen days. The same tendency to minimize is found amongst the Ruthenians (Synod of Zamosc, loc. cit.). The Apostles' Lent counts no more than twelve days for the Melchites. Goar says that their Christmas Lent is reduced to seven days. Other alterations in these seasons have been made at various times in different places. The Greeks enjoy some relaxation of this obligation on a certain number of days during the year. Accordingly, when feasts solemnized in the Greek Church fall on ordinary Wednesdays and Fridays, or on days during their various Lenten seasons (Wednesdays and Fridays excepted), a complete or partial suspension of xerophagy takes place. The obligation of abstaining from flesh is withdrawn on Wednesdays and Fridays between Christmas and 4 January; whenever Epiphany falls on Wednesday or Friday; Wednesday and Friday during the week preceding the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross; during the octaves of Easter and Pentecost. Some of the Greeks, especially the Melchites, hold that xerophagy does not bind from Easter to Pentecost [cf. Pilgrimage of Etheria (Peregrinatio Sylviae) ap. Duchesne, op. cit. 569]. In their partial suspension of the xerophagy the Greeks maintain the obligation of abstaining from flesh meat, but they countenance the use of such other viands as are ordinarily prohibited when the law is in full force. This mitigation finds application as often as the following festivals fall on Wednesdays or Fridays not included in their Lenten seasons, or any day (Wednesdays and Fridays excepted) during their Lenten seasons: 24 November, Feast of St. Philip; 21 November, Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary; 7 January, Commemoration of St. John Baptist; 2 February; Presentation of Christ in the Temple; 25 March, Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary; 29 June, The Apostles; 6 August, Transfiguration, 15 August Assumption; and Palm Sunday. St. Basil's rule is followed by all monks and nuns in the Greek Church. Xerophagy is their general rule for penitential practices. The law of abstaining from meat admits no relaxation. The greater solemnities entitle them to use fish, eggs, milk, oil, and wine. Feasts of minor solemnity, falling on days other than Wednesday or Friday, admit fish, eggs, milk, oil, and wine, otherwise wine and oil only. Finally, simple feasts admit the use of oil and wine. The obligation of xerophagy on Wednesdays and Fridays dates its origin to apostolic tradition (cf. Teaching of the Apostles, viii, I; Clement of Alexandria, Strom. VI, lxxv; Tertullian, De jejunio, xiv). The xerophagy of Major Lent is likewise of ancient growth. There is strong reason to think that the question was mooted in the second century, when the Easter controversy waxed strong. Writings of the fourth century afford frequent references to this season. According to the Pilgrimage of Etheria (Duchesne, op. cit., 555), the end of the fourth century witnessed Jerusalem devoting forty days (a period of eight weeks) to fasting and abstinence. The season comprised eight weeks because Orientals keep both Saturday (save Holy Saturday) and Sunday as days of rejoicing, and not of penance. There are several noteworthy evidences of those forty days thus appointed by the Greeks for abstinence and fasting (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Procatech., no. 4, and Catech., iv, 3, ap. Migne, P. G., XXXIII, 341, 347; Eusebius, De solemnitate pascuali, no. 4, Migne, P. G., XXIV, 697; Apostolic Canons, can. lxviii, ap. Hefele, op. cit., I, 485). The canons of Greek councils show no traces of legislation regarding their Christmas Lent etc. prior to the eighth century. No doubt the practice of keeping xerophagy during these seasons originated in monasteries and thence passed to the laity. In the beginning of the ninth century St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople, states that all are obliged to observe xerophagy during those seasons (Pitra, Juris Ecclesiastici Graeci Historia et Monumenta, Rome, 1868, II, 327). It is scarcely necessary to note here that the Greek Church has legislated nearly half of the year into days of fasting or abstinence or both. Nevertheless, many Oriental writers protest against a lessening of this number. In point of fact, however, many Greeks claim that many days of this kind scarcely win proper recognition from the faithful.

Thank you Vedesu! Does the above quote refer to raganuga bhakti or vaidhi bhakti? I assume it refers to raganuga bhakti. Am I correct? Thank you. Her Servant and yours.

Thank you Baba for your nice reply. Even so, for myself (and perhaps cbrahma), the distinctions between raganuga and vaidhi bhakti are too advanced for me. Since I can only perform devotional service in some very small and limited amounts, I very much appreciated your comments about the "intention behind the act .. if done out of love" Her Servant and yours.

Srila Prabhupada would have accepted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiy3_KRKNaQ as authentic non sectarian expression of the "Sankirtan" movement. ISKCON will not accept, and until it does it is not only failing, it is doomed.

Were the deeds of Christians barbarians far more heineous than the participants of Kurukshetra? That seemed to be a question raised previously. That has to be true since here is no historical evidence that Kurukshetra actually took place. Therefore, Kurukshetra is classified as "myth" by historians. Not that Kurukshetra didn't really happen, just that there is not historical proof. On the other hand, the Crusades have been studied in depth, and at the very least, objectively in part. Now which are the "Christians (i.e., the one's following the teachings of Jesus) in the account below? Are the "Christians" the murderers, or are they the "local Bishops and Christians (who) made attempts to protect Jews.."? see : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades Before you make general statements, please understand that historical reporting can be biased. For example, would it be correct for a historian to say "Vaisnavas" cut off the heads of one another because of "their holy books" instruct them to do so? Would it be correct if historians categorize all "Vaisnavas" by the following histories: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5HG80bJXu8&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BXa6jeeq4g&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EEOE1zB3BQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2tSMTsYJ6c&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsZttnrJkTk&feature=related for the complete series see: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=govinda107 So I encourage the forum participants to not start more trouble in the world by making generalizations about so called "Christians", "Jews", "Muslims", "Hindus", "Buddhists", ."Vaisnavas" .. etc. There are pure devotees of God and there are the rest of us. It is better for us to try to be pure first, then critique the religious practices of others. Thank you. Her Servant and yours.

I read BG As It Is for the first time in 1994 I think. At the time I was very interested in Srila Prabhupada's writings and ISKCON. I visited temples and inquired about membership in the society. As I became more serious about membership (initiation) I studied ISKCON's history more thoroughly. At that time more and more information and disinformation became available via the Internet. I think you have to ask, how can anyone join ISKCON after researching its history? It's broken ... possibly for good.

It seems very auspicious that you are posting here. You were mentioned to me by name just days ago by a hermit. He was very concerned about your well being and had hoped you were OK. You can send me a private message via this forum. Please check your private messages when you log in.

Not only were members and devotees of ISKCON young, they had very little, if any, direct association with Srila Prabhupada. Everything they learned about him was indirect. This fact is important because it tells us that each person was left "on his own" to interpret the "Masters and PhD of spiritual science (e.g. Srimad Bhagavatam and CC). Now take in account that many senior devotees and leaders were either drug users, or former drug users. Consider the time place and circumstance (60s and 70s). Take in account that the devotees assembled by Prabhupada were largely under the age of 25. (recent studies show that human brain growth and development doesn't reach maturity until age 25, as opposed to 16-18 years as previously thought). Finally factor in all of the unique religious backgrounds: "cultural religion (TV generation), protestant, catholic, jewish, agnostic, and atheist. Not to mention kids under the age of 25 still possess an element of fantasy. So Prabhupada was in fact a "dream" to them. He represented a dream of SOMETHING, but that thing was distorted in the minds of easily shaped youths, seeking out their fantasy. In the 70s, each devotee I met (in Columbus OH) encouraged me to go to New Vrndavan. I was never attracted, because none of the one's I met were intellectuals. That is, they couldn't present their case when I asked them questions about their faith. They could only present that Srila Prabhupada was something of a spiritual messiah. There were quite a few hippies in the movement, just looking for free shelter and free (really good) food. So what you have left over is ISKCON. I've met a LOT of (ISKCON) devotees who are AFRAID of their leadership. What's that tell ya?

In the mean time, you can go here:

Yes. As do I. She helps me toward heaven by "bringing me down to earth" She says in the same letter (of the one I quoted above): ".. when I read books in which perfection is put before us with the goal obstructed by a thousand obstacles, my poor little head is quickly head is quickly fatigued. I close the learned treatise which tires my brain and dries up my heart, and I turn to the Sacred Scriptures. Then all becomes clear -- a single word opens out infinite vistas, perfection appears easy, and I see it is enough to acknowledge one's nothingness and surrender oneself like a child to God's affectionate arms." -- St. Teresa of Lisieux When I read the above, it reminded me about the time that Sri Chaitanya was asked to expound upon the scriptures, but rather than expound, answered something to the effect " there is no need, the scriptures themselves tell the meaning"

By His Grace and Mercy. St. Teresa the Little Flower is amazing! I am glad you have affection for her. Once when I met the devotees who assisted Prabhupada with the installation of the dieties in the Berkely temple, I asked them some questions about Jesus. It was then one very senior devotee, a direct disciple of Srila Prabhupada, told me the "Jesus is teaching the highest Vaisnava principle while being crucified. He is showing ecstatic union in separation" on the cross when He says "My God My God why hast thou forsaken me". It was the first time I heard the saying "ecstatic union in separation" I didn't understand it at the time, but St. Teresal the Little Flower revealed its meaning. As she became more ill and closer to death, she would cough up blood. The sisters could see that this was "agonizing", but St. Teresa was not agonizing over her physical condition! She agonized that her Spouse would not yet receive her! Every moment, every breath, every cough, she hoped would be the one that "fully united her with her Beloved!" HerServant and yours.