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HerServant

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  1. Dear Krishnaleela, If you are honestly researching this topic, it is important to not limit the research to the "neo linquistic" analysis. I merely presented the linguistics as a starting point. If I am not mistaken, India has many languages and dialects. Is Visnu worship limited to only those who worship Him with the "correct" pronounciation and dialect of His Holy Name? Beyond language, customs, culture, forms of worship, and scriptures must be examined. There are many articles posted on indiadivine.org that expound upon this topic. I suggest you start by reading the article below. http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/vedic-culture/187665-fwd-fw-one-father-god-one-holy-mother-one-human-family.html
  2. Wow. How do you know Jesus never heard of Visnu? Well Jesus spoke Aramaic and was likely knowledgable of Greek and Hebrew. "After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. - Luke 2:46-48 Greek was extensively used by Jewish scholars and scribes at the time of Christ. In fact, the Hebrew scriptures at the time of Christ were preserved (written in) greek. The Greek compilation of Hebrew scriptures is known as the Septuagint ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint ) Varios aspects of Egyptian history would have also been taught to Jesus and He may have known Egyptian dialects. "Now when they had gone, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Get up! Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you" - Matt 2:13 The Jewish temple in Cochin India dates to 700 BC (the time of King Solomon) and this fact is often referenced by scholars as proof that there existed a spice trade between India and the middle east. -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews Therefore, the presence of the Bible and Bible philosophy in India dates back to 700BC . It would be unreasonable and ridiculous to assume that questions of faith, discussions of faith and the nature of God were not discussed among peoples interacting in trade and commerce, or as foriegn immigrants living among a new people. Regarding the Cochin Jews, "They traditionally spoke Judeo-Malayalam, a form of the Malayalam tongue, native to the state of Kerala, in India. " Is it an accident that among all Indian languages, Malayalam is most "infused" with sanskrit? "Influence of Sanskrit is most prominent in Malayalam in almost all linguistic areas. From Sanskrit, thousands of nouns and hundreds of verbs are borrowed into Malayalam. Some items of basic vocabulary also have found their way into Malayalam from Sanskrit." - source: Language in India http://www.languageinindia.com/may2005/girishenglishmalayalam1.html Now we can look at dialects for the Name of God across language families in Africa , Summeria, Persia Greek, and India and see the following: The Supreme Father God OLU Niger-Kordofanian Language Family HERU Nilo-Saharan Language Family HELI Greek SOLE Roman ELI West Semitic (ALI as in Allah is related) URI ARI, ORI Semitic variants HURRI SERRI Hurrian and Hittite variants ILU Sumerian ZER HVARE Persian variants SURA same as HARI, compare SURIH, SUREH, HARIH, HAREH, SURYA, HARYA etc. HARI HARA Vaishnava and Shaivite Sanskrit forms HRIH Buddhist Sanskrit One of the two most used names for God among Greeks and Hebrews at the time of Christ was HELI(OS) EL, ELI HARI and ELI are definitely linquistically related, and hence the Holy Name of LORD Hari was known throughout the entire civilized world. Is Visnu a different God than HARI?
  3. This is a rather shocking comment raghu. It is certainly offensive to the Lord unless you in fact are a perfectly realized soul or the Lord Himself. Your first sentence "No the topic was raised because certain individuals with less-than-ethical motives ..." is directed at me since I was the person who started this thread. Can you see in my heart? You know my motives? The Witness of the human heart is God Himself. I have posted over 300 times here and I would like you to show a single reference that I am trying to convert anyone. (It seems odd that you have posted here only 45 times or so, yet have been a member since 2003 ..) I express my experiences of the Vaisnava literatures from a Christian perspective because that is my background. I share what I know and try not to speculate. I always try to present my realizations respectfully and have never criticized (to my recollection) anyone on this forum. I even love those with different views because I see that God cannot be bound by the limited speculation of a human mind. His Glories are unlimited and no person can comprehend them all. Therefore, I am not exactly sure why you are so angry?. The sun is shining. God is love. I hope you have a nice day. Om Shanti. Hare Krsna.
  4. You are new to the forum and welcome dear seeker of the Truth. This topic was raised because certain members of hate the mere mention the name Jesus. Simply say the Holy Name Jesus and out come the antichrists with vehement attacks on Christians, the Bible, and everything believed to be sacred by Jesus bhaktas. The Lord certainly does not need my defense, but I decided to create this thread because neophyte devotees use this forum to investigate spiritual topics. Therefore, I believe it is important for devotees to understand that the message, mission and the Lila of Jesus does not conflict in anyway with Vedic scriptures. Rather, Jesus and the Vedas, particularly in this era of rapid information exchange between cultures and people, are meant to be studied together. I agree with Ramaprasad that it is an offense to bring the Lord into such sectarian worldly disputes. Thank you for reminding us of the higher principles .. To Know Him, To Love Him and To Serve Him. To Ramaprasad ... Welcome! Your presence here is a blessing. All assembled devotees, let us leave worldly disputes behind in favor of singing the great glories of God. Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya! Jesu Ki Jaya!
  5. ""Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." - Matt. 7.6 " The sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the way side. And it was trodden down: and the fowls of the air devoured it. And other some fell upon a rock. And as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. And other some fell among thorns. And the thorns growing up with it, choked it. And other some fell upon good ground and, being sprung up, yielded fruit a hundredfold. Saying these things, he cried out: He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Luke 8:5-8
  6. The above statement (quote) seems to be a correct statement based on my experience except the "wiser traditions than Christianity" That part of your statement is unfounded. This above statement is absolutely false and ridiculous and is based on the Protestant (no disciplic succession) view of "Sola Scriptura". The parampara of Jesus (apostolic succession) has maintained a Guru Saddhu Sashtra approach to Spritual Truth and Revelation. PROPOSITION: Is Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) a reasonable method for understanding Christian orthodoxy? Let’s examine the facts: FACT: There is nothing in Scripture teaching that "Scripture alone" is all-sufficient for the Christian Faith. FACT: There is something in Scripture advocating reliance on both Scripture as well as oral Tradition (2 Thess 2:15, Phil 4:9, 1 Corinth 11:2, 2 Thess 3:6). FACT: There is nothing in Scripture suggesting that a time will come when this dual expression of Christian truth (Scripture and oral Tradition) will come to an end. FACT: There is also nothing in Scripture determining a Divinely-selected list of inspired books (i.e., the present New Testament canon). FACT: There is also no statement within any of these New Testament books claiming that these books are Divinely-inspired. This becomes especially significant when one cites references to Divine revelation in the present New Testament books (e.g. Ephesians 3:3), since many of the Christian writings excluded from the New Testament canon also contain such references to Divine inspiration (e.g., The Apocalypse of Peter, the Protoevangelium of James, etc). FACT: The present canon of the New Testament was not determined until the year 397 A.D. at the Council of Carthage. ...And by a Church which clearly accepted both Scripture and oral Tradition as the rule of Faith. FACT: Examples of this oral Tradition can be documented as early as A.D. 90 --a time when many of those who knew Christ (including the Apostle John) were still alive. This documentation is to be found in 1 Clement to the Corinthians --a non-canonical epistle, which was considered to be Divinely-inspired by numerous Church fathers and many city-churches (esp. Corinth itself) until it was excluded from the New Testament in 397 A.D.. FACT: Three of these oral Traditions documented in 1 Clement are: 1. Peter and Paul’s ministries in Rome; 2. Apostolic succession; and 3. the Eucharist as a Sacrifice. See the entire article here: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a21.htm
  7. I am not in the line of Gaudiya Vaisnava and never have been. I first read Bhagavad Gita as it is 11 years ago at the age of 38 years old. I am an eastern rite catholic and study all the holy scriptures of God because they inspire me. I have studied dvaita, advaita, vivesteka advaita, shavaite and vaisnavism. For me Vaisnava is not limited to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. Also, Srimad Bhagavatam is not exclusive to Gaudiya Vaisnavism. It is accepted and studied by other branches of Hinduism. I have a complete volume published by Ramakrsna math in Chennai, and have found the text to be very honest and very devotional (personal) for the most part. Vaisnavas, (* i think .. though I am not certain) consider Ramakrsna math to be advaita. (mayavadi) My faith is firmly established in Lord Jesus as He Himself has revealed His immovability. I do not have to speculate on His identity because I know Him. As such, I can only wish you peace and love. Her servant and yours.
  8. Yes. The higher up the mountain, the steeper that climb and the harder and faster the fall. The harder the fall, the more bewildering the journey. We don't have all the details about the little Narada. What the holy scriptures tell us is that he traveled very difficult journey with child like trust in God. Even Narada himself, as a tender child, endured this suffering, to see the sweet presence of the Lord, yet thereafter the Lord disappeared. "Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." - Matt. 16:24 In Jesus lila, the cross (made from the dead wood a tree) is the body and senses, or our material existence: "The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." - Matt. 3:10 The tree is the producer of fruit (fruitive activity) and that tree which does "washed off karma", that is, not have pure actions bears no fruit at all. Hence, it is thrown into the firey pangs of material existence : ie. greed, lust, anger, etc. as told what will happen in Bhagavad Gita 2.63-63 sam?ne vr?ks?e purus?o nimagno 'n??ay? ?ocati muhyam?nah? jus?t?a? yad? pa?yaty anyam ??am asya mahim?nam iti v?ta-?okah? "Although the two birds are in the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories — at once the suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties." - ?vet??vatara Upanis?ad (4.7) And when they were come to the place which is called Calvary, they crucified him there: and the robbers, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. - Luke 23:33 And one of those robbers who were hanged blasphemed him, saying: If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering, rebuked him, saying: Neither dost thou fear God, seeing; thou art under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly: for we receive the due reward of our deeds. But this man hath done no evil. And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee: This day thou shalt be with me in paradise. - Luke 23:39-43 So we must endure and even in the midst of suffering, we must recognize that God is in our midst. Just as the tree (cross) of the body can be the instrument of our death, it can also be the vehicle of our awakening. We awaken when we see that it is Krsna who longs for us ... who pangs for us within an ocean of mercy and compassion, waiting for us to turn our face to Him .. so that He may say, "This day you shall be with me in paradise". Peace and love. Om Shanti. Her servant and yours
  9. Can you prove Madhva acharya was initiated by Vyasa into the Vaisnava mantra? “Srila Narayana Maharaja: Madhvacarya was a direct disciple of Vyasadeva. When Madhvacarya was living, about 4,000 years had passed since Vyasa disappeared from this world. However, Madhvacarya knew that Vyasadeva was still alive and that he is eternal. So he prayed to him in Badrikasrama, beseeching him, "I want to take your darsana and to be initiated by you." And when he was praying, at once Vyasadeva personally came there, and Madhvacarya presented his wish to him that he should grant him initiation. And then after that Vyasa disappeared. ” – “Srila Prabhupada: Srila Madhvacarya is the original acarya for those who belong to the Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya.” (Srimad Bhagavatam, 6.1.40.purport) “This Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya is also known as the Brahma-sampradaya because the disciplic succession originally began from Brahma. Brahma instructed the sage Narada, Narada instructed Vyasadeva, and Vyasadeva instructed Madhva Muni, or Madhvacarya. ” (Krsna Book, Introduction). If the above is true, (which I don't deny, particularly of my love for Vyasadeva), could you please provide Madhva's account of Vyasadeva's initiating him into the Vaisnava mantra? I can't seem to find a reference. Other references regarding Madhva make no such claim: "Acharya Madhva was born on Vijayadashami day of 1238 CE at Pajaka, a tiny hamlet near Udupi. Narayana Panditacharya who later wrote Madhva's biography has recorded the names of Acharya's parents as Madhyageha Bhatta as name of the father and Vedavati as Acharya's mother. They named him Vasudeva at birth. Purnaprajna - Anandatirtha - Madhva Even as a child, Vasudeva exhibited precocious talent for grasping all things spiritual. He was drawn to the path of renunciation and even as a young boy of eleven years, he chose initiation into the monastic order from Achyuta-Preksha, a reputed ascetic of the time, near Udupi, in the year Saumya (1249 CE). The preceptor Acyuta-Preksha gave the boy Vasudeva the name of 'Purnaprajna' at the time of his initiation into sanyasa." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhvacharya Another source says: Madhva’s parents naturally objected and so it was not until he was about 16 years of age that Madhva was able to leave home and become a sannyasi. From then on the young Vasudeva became known as Ananda Tirtha, the name given to him by his sannyasa guru. Ananda Tirtha later assumed the name Madhva by which he is most commonly known today. In many of his writings Madhva openly identifies himself as the third incarnation of mukhya-prana (Primal Breath) alluded to in the Rg Veda. It is said that mukhya-prana takes the form of the wind-god (Vayudeva) and descends into this mortal world in three successive incarnations: as Hanuman, the follower of Rama, as Bhimasena, one of the Pandava, and finally as Madhva, who in Kali-yuga appears in the guise of a sannyasi. Ananda Tirtha’s followers readily accept and worship him as Madhva, the incarnation of Vayudeva. Sometimes Ananda Tirtha is also known as Purnaprajna due to his display of vast learning. - http://www.sanskrit.org/www/Madhva/madhva.html Neither source indicates that Vyasa deva initiated Madhva. Personally, I need no proof that Madhva acharya was "One who is initiated into the Vaishnava mantra" . I have faith in the Lord and He can come and initiate anyone He wishes. Srila Prabhupada initiated thousands of people .. here is a list of "unknowns" http://www.oldchakra.com/mainpages/sp_database/index.htm A vast percentage of these lost devotees are currently likely christians or of other faiths . They took initiation but clearly have no association with Vaisnavas at the present time. Are they Vaisnava? Therefore, prabhu, could you please be so kind as to provide the account of Vyasadeva's giving Vaisnava mantra to Madhva? Also, it would be very nice of you if you please identify all of the branches of Vaisnavism that surely must have been established in the 4000 years between Vyasa deva (disappearence) and Madhva's initiation. Warmest wishes. Her Servant and yours.
  10. Ahhh yes .. eyesight to the blind! Hari Krsna!
  11. This is a very important question. Sometimes its not just payback though. Sometimes, God knows that he can trust you as His instrument of peace, consolation, forgiveness, joy, compassion, and sometimes He sends someone to you because your love, your heart's love can help another experience His Mercy. We can also say that He is Param guru, always teaching ... so when someone difficult comes our way, and we catch ourselves reacting sinfully, instead of responding gracefully, that too is His Mercy. I too share your wish, to see the Lord, and I pray for His merciful decent to planet earth. Only He can save us. Finally, in my tradition, it is our belief that the indwelling of Love in our hearts, Paramatma, is "God as Gift of Himself" and that He, the Holy Spirit is actually the Loving Exchange between Father and Son. That is, that Paramatma is "God as Gift of Himself" in the Heart of every devotee, as the very paramour loving exchange between Krsna and Baladeva. You can be sure of great hope, that "with your naked eyes" we will witness to His Divine pastimes and be forever rapt in His loving service Her servant and yours.
  12. It is an absolute fact that the Jews worshipped the "Lord of Time". ANY Jewish rabbi or scholar will tell you without debate that the Romans beleived that the Jews worshipped Saturn (Satur-day) The Jew for sure worshipped the Lord of the Sabbath. The original word for Sabbath is: Tsebaoth . The word Tsebaoth means Lord of Hosts. The word Hosts means "heavenly hosts" as in the Lord of the celestial beings, galaxies, stars, Sun, planets, and moons. (The word hosts also connotes an Legion upon legion army.) The Lord of such Hosts, is the Ruler of the cycles of the stars, Sun, planets and moon. Time is measured by the movements of these planets and Time Kala, the Lord is the Wrathful form of God. sri-bhagavan uvaca kalo 'smi loka-ksaya-krt pravrddho lokan samahartum iha pravrttah rte 'pi tvam na bhavisyanti sarve ye 'vasthitah pratyanikesu yodhah The Blessed Lord said: Time I am, destroyer of the worlds, and I have come to engage all people. With the exception of you [the Pandavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain. BG 11.32 - http://www.cyberspacei.com/jesusi/inlight/religion/belief/dualism.htm
  13. Well maybe I will have to check it out .. as I understand it is the 3 part of the series that the children kill God .. ... just the premise alone, ie, that someone could even think of God in that "fictional" capacity .. it breaks my heart .. that is all
  14. I can accept, and even accept his comments that "Christianity" is incomplete. But within context of what Christian texts and thought he was presented with. I would venture to say that His Holiness Sridhar Maharaj spent much more of his energy studying his own tradition, and sang the glories of that (Vaisnavism). When approached about Christianity, he gave his honest perspective. AND I GREATLY respect Sridhar Maharaja. After all, he says in Sri Guru and His Grace the "religion must be progressive" !!! That includes you and me brother. The worst thing for me is for me to be offensive to anyone that is sincere, particularly you prabhu. Peace and love.
  15. I am not here to argue any of these points. really. I think the Heliodorus connection in the Bible is interesting. Some on the thread do not. I think the Vedas are a more complete record of Spiritual History than the Old Testament. So what does that matter? We can find a single "sloka" in the bible or Vedas that could be enough meditation for our entire life and that would be pleasing enough to God .. likely more pleasing than trying to prove or disprove something from archeology, linguistics, etc. I think it is way too much of a coincindence that Heliodorus of the bible is told by God (appearing as two glorious youthful men) to proclaim his glories everywhere. I am perfectly willing to ACCEPT that Heliodorus (A GREEK) perhaps was already aware of Vaisnava thought prior to his mission to Jerusalem, and that he recognized that God Himself was known as Vasudeva and Visnu. SO Maybe Vasudeva appeared to Heliodorus to STOP attacking the Jewish (religion) and get on with the praising of God among ALL people!
  16. Yes, I referenced that link by design. Why do the authors not make a single mention or reference to the Heliodorus of the Bible and refute my position? Because they can't!
  17. I did the research .. you don't have to like it. I am not preaching authoratively on Heliodorus .. hence the "ha aahha hha " is exclamitory. In fact, I am glad you challenge .. more research is definitely required .. on both sides
  18. Well I can't disagree with you on that one. But, I think there is more to this movie than meets the eye. I didn't like it and I think there are some dark aspects to it .. .. of course any book that is riddled with conspiracy theory has a dark edge to it . .. maybe I didn't like it because it made me uncomfortable ... no .. that is not it .. I was fine with this movie until the "bloody end" .. I think there is definitely a connection to satanic ritualist stuff .. no thanks
  19. ignore what you want .. and if you like cling to sectarianism .. but there is only one Heliodorus of the same rank and time period of the Heliodorus mentioned in connection with the Garuda column and the book of Maccabees. Only one Heliodorus whom God appeared as Two Beautiful , Glorious Youths, and told him to "proclaim God's Glories to all men" AND the oldest written, archeologically verifiable record of such a Heliodorus is there in the book of the bible. HS and yours
  20. The oldest historical and archeological reference of Visnu, and Krsna Baladeva worship are biblical. I can't help the fact that sectarianists (on both sides) will HATE this fact. But the facts are as they are: The inscription on the above column reads: ""This Garuda-column of Vasudeva (Visnu), the god of gods, was erected here by Heliodorus, a worshipper of Visnu, the son of Dion, and an inhabitant of Taxila, who came as Greek ambassador from the Great King Antialkidas to King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra, the Savior, then reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship." see: - http://www.gosai.com/chaitanya/saranagati/html/vedic-upanisads/vedic-archeology.html IN THE BIBLE in 2 Machabees Chapter 3. Heliodorus is sent by king Seleucus to take away the treasures deposited in the temple. He is struck down by God who appears in the form of Kalki, Krsna and Baladeva. At the request of his followers he is healed by the prayers of the high priest. Heliodorus then takes a solemn vow at the temple to proclaim the glories of God everywhere. 2 Machabees Chapter 23-36 But Heliodorus executed that which he had resolved on, himself being present in the same place with his guard about the treasury. But the spirit of the Almighty God gave a great evidence of his presence, so that all that had presumed to obey him, falling down by the power of God, were struck with fainting and dread. For there appeared to them a horse, with a terrible rider upon him, adorned with a very rich covering: and he ran fiercely and struck Heliodorus with his fore feet, and he that sat upon him seemed to have armour of gold. Moreover there appeared two other young men, beautiful and strong, bright and glorious, and in comely apparel: who stood by him, on either side, and scourged him without ceasing with many stripes. And Heliodorus suddenly fell to the ground, and they took him up, covered with great darkness, and having put him into a litter, they carried him out. So he that came with many servants, and all his guard, into the aforesaid treasury, was carried out, no one being able to help him, the manifest power of God being known. And he indeed, by the power of God, lay speechless, and without all hope of recovery. But they praised the Lord, because he had glorified his place: and the temple, that a little before was full of fear and trouble, when the Almighty Lord appeared, was filled with joy and gladness. Then some of the friends of Heliodorus forthwith begged of Onias, that he would call upon the Most High to grant him his life, who was ready to give up the ghost. So the high priest, considering that the king might perhaps suspect that some mischief had been done to Heliodorus by the Jews, offered a sacrifice of health for the recovery of the man. And when the high priest was praying, the same young men in the same clothing stood by Heliodorus, and said to him: Give thanks to Onias the priest: because for his sake the Lord hath granted thee life. And thou having been scourged by God, declare unto all men the great works and the power of God. And having spoken thus, they appeared no more. So Heliodorus, after he had offered a sacrifice to God, and made great vows to him, that had granted him life, and given thanks to Onias, taking his troops with him, returned to the king. And he testified to all men the works of the great God, which he had seen with his own eyes. The (Jewish) Temple of Jerusalem was a Vishnu Temple and Heliodorus was given the mission of preaching His Glories "to all men" by the Lord Himself appearing as " two other young men, beautiful and strong, bright and glorious, and in comely apparel" Ahh ha hahahha ahahah !
  21. I agree with bro Mahak maharaja. In fact it has been scientifically proven that various people in India, Mongolia, Alaska, contain DNA strands traced from the oldest known "human" skeletons found in Africa. One of the oldest languages in the world is Yoruba, and the word for God in Yoruban is OLU. It can be shown that the semites took their world ELI from OLU. In fact OLU, ELI, ALI, ARI, URI, ORI, SOLE, HELI are all dialect expression of (H)ARI / (H)ARE The oldest (from scientific perspective) is the Yoruban OLU.
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