Baobabtree

How is this verse contrary to what I said. Isn't Krishna stating it is his nature to preform a kshatriya's dharma?

Thanks and Pranams to you. I'm curious to know what you think the proper translations for this veres is- (however this topic really doesn't have to do with the subject of hiw varna should be determined. Perhaps we should start another thread to continue this conversation).

As I have stated before I'm no Sanskrit scholar, but Ralph Griffith translates this verse as How does this verse affirm he alone is the supreme deity. Also, I'm unable to find an online translation of the Aitreya Brahmana, would you mind posting the verse you cited?

Pranams to you Bloominglotus. I too come from a non-Hindu family, so I know how odd it can feel attending a mandir for the first time. Once you enter the temple, you should bow down in front of every deity in the sanctum and offer a small prayer like "Om Kleem Krishnaya Namaha", starting counterclockwise from the entrance of the room. Some mandirs also have certain times, where people all come together to sing bhajans (the mandir I attend does this) for a period of time, and all mandirs do daily aartis. So, see if you can find out when bhajans in large groups or aartis are preformed. I should note that in addition to ISKCON mandirs, Lord Sri Krishna is happily worshiped and propogated at other Hindu mandirs, so don't shy away from visiting either ISKCON or standard Hindu mandirs. Again, Pranams to!

I believe he was an avatar.

Why don't you accpet Shiva Purana, or Kulachudamani Tantra? Because, you are a Sri Vaishnava. Though, at the moment I don't really belong to any specific sect, my views regarding the hiearchy of deities, is similar to the view Smartha's have. Therefore, I tend to reject Vaishnava texts like Bhagavatam, Vishnu Purana or Manu Smriti which hold Vaishnava views in regards to diety hierarchy (that Vishnu is supreme, and all other deities are demi-gods). There are others I simply have not studied yet at all, thus I don't really reject them, but I am ignorant of them, and therefore can't say I really accept or believe in them. I would think this indicates that these individuals stayed in the castes in which they were born. It appears clear to me that Arjuna wished to cease fighting, due to the fact he might have to slay his friends and relatives, not because he was trully inclined to become a brahmin, and of a non-violent nature (which even then a brahmin should give up, during such wars where violence and not absolute pacifism are neccesarry).

What about individuals like Valmiki? Why are we to assume, they are an exception to how varna is usually determined? The very term nature (which I admit might be an incorrect translation) would seem to indicate something along the lines of individuals qualities. Because it would be wrong of him to become a beggar, based on his uneasy attitude towards fighting his family members. Non-violence can only be maintained to certain level. If Arjuna and the other warriors had chosen ahsima over fighting, the Kauravas would have unrightfully kept the throne of Hastinapura, and in doing so, would have thrown the world into despair, and slain many inoccent people. Not to mention Arjua still had the nature of a kshatriya, his unease was due to the fact he had to fight his family, instead of men not related or well known to him. He couldn't renounce his varna and its dharma based upon this. Where is this strict segregation mentioned in The Vedas, Upanishads or Mahabharata? Wouldn't this instead indicate something more like an individuals gotra?

That's one way of looking at it. I view both marriage and sex as expressions of love and affection, therefore I see no harm in such relationships.

I would be quiet happy to have satsang with you. I'll pm you my email.

I only know basic French, but I think she said something along the lines of "Yes, that's true. I like Shiridi Sai Baba, but not Sathya Sai Baba".

I'm not sure if it is the based idea out there, but I don't have anything against any sampradayas who have family lineages (if that's what you are refering to).

You yourself believe one is born into their caste, so I don't need to give any evidence there. I will admit, I can't think of any examples of people changing castes, that come directly to my mind from the texts I mentioned, but didn't Valmiki change his caste from an outcaste to a Brahmin?

I don't know enough about this incident to comment upon it, however I was rather disturbed when I read this- What exactly is so wrong with homosexuality might I ask?

Individuals need to attempt to base their varna upon which they think they're the most qualified to preform. It's obviously not that simple, and people are going to make mistakes, but this is the Kali Yuga, what can you do? I don't argue that someone is born into the caste of their parents. This is clear from what Smritis say about individuals like Parashurama (amongst others). Instead, I'd argue that one's varna can change, if they find they are more qualified for another varna (likewise if they choose to follow the varna of their parents, it should be because they feel they are qualified) I don't think one needs to segregate themselves from people of other varnas. From what I understand this means family duties, yes? I don't quiet understand what you mean here? Just out of curiosity , how do you think one would determine a foreign man's varna?

The Vedas, Upanishads and the Mahabharata. That isn't to say, I don't hold the view that other texts might not also be authentic. I just haven't studied any other texts, that I personally believe in (though I plan on studying a lot more).

At the risk of offending most posters on this forum, I must state that I don't consider the Srimad Bhagavatam to be an infallible scripture. That being said, I hold it very high esteem, and do except many tales from it as being true, but I'd be lying if I said I considered it to be infallible.

And you are offending the devotees of Shirdi Sai Baba (who in case you didn't know is different from this con-artist Sathya Sai Baba) by denouncing him. If not God, Shirdi Sai Baba was trully a saint of the highest level. Now you've crossed the line! Certainly, there are many yogis who are fakes and are just looking for money and fame, but many have spent years upon years of sevre penance and practice, in an attempt to understand God, and the self. You are the one clammering about not offending devotees, but you're offending a class of devotees, who are far above you and I, in terms of spiritual practice.

Couldn't the very fact that he mentions "Duties prescribed according to one's nature" indicate that one's varna is determined by a person's nature, not what their parents' castes are? When this is taken into account, the first line could very well be warning us of taking up duties based upon things like which family we're born into.

Thanks, I'd really appreciate that.

Namaste all. Would anyone here be able to provide me with an audio recording of someone singing the Mahakali Chalisa, and with both the lyrics and an audio recording of any sort of Aarti for Kali? Any helpd is greatly appreicated. Jai Kali Maa!

I think it might have to do with spamming in general, and not necessarily proselytizing.

I never really got why you had to have such and such posts to be able to send PMs. Oh well, just post around a bit and that function will be accessible again.

Well, every Swaminarayan temple I've seen has had murtis of Lord Krishna, Radha, Nara-Narayan etc. in them as well as Swaminarayan's murti (it should also be noted that they believe Swaminarayan is God, not just a guru). Where was this temple you visited?

Anyone interested? I don't follow any particular school of thought, but In relation to God and the universe, my views are probably closest to Vishistadvaita and I my Ishta Devi is Kali Maa (though I happily worship Shiva, Durga, Ganesha, Parvati, Krishna, Radha, Hanuman, Ram, Sita and other deities as well). Give me a PM if you're interested, and I'll send you my email.

Sadly I don't know Tamil (or any Indian language for that matter) so I can't really help translate this for you, but I really enjoyed this kirtan. Thanks for positng