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Bhakta Devarsi

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Posts posted by Bhakta Devarsi


  1. In another topic, the following observation was made about a poster's technique, and it brought me to see clearly that someone is in danger, as actually anyone is who is found artificially manufacturing arguements, especially when it contradicts a great Acharya. Ouch.

     

    Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Guestperson

    "You are making arguments on this message board where very few people know all the intricacies of Gaudiya Philosophy."

    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> And making arguements IN THIS CASE means manufacturing arguements, a sure sign of slow poisoning taking effect.

     

    The articles such a person chooses to contend are pointedly attacked by choosing main words that are actually broadly interpreted conceptual structures being applied quite suitably in a context to which they are perfectly applicable.

     

    This is a classic straw man type of arguementation. Can't beat the essence, go for the strawman and beat him up. But this type of straw man is a ghost also.

     

    The essence of the subject being presented is fine, but to manufacture arguement for arguements sake, one chooses a word in another's presentation and argues that it was used incorrectly, and goes on to imply that the other person's entire presentation had no transcendental value and was based on a foundation no sounder than a riven cloud.

     

    When in fact the definition of the word was manipulated so narrowly that it only appears to contradict, and in reality, the word was used correctly to support the truth.

     

    For example. In a thread where some people are repeating the instructions of the person they have chosen to their heart and mind to be the most prominent Acharya of the teachings of the Gaudiya line and the most current link (for them), in a preaching effort, based on quotations, Anadi had obliquely challenged the transcendental validity of the presentation based on a technical arguement regarding the definition of some key words, words which I will show are broadly interpreted without impropriety.

     

    So Anadi says in regards to this statement of mine to which he adds emphasis in bold..

     

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by anadi

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by Bhakta Devarsi

    If the prescription is, "In my assessment of your presently manifested symptoms, Y'all are situated in the modes of nature, bereft of anything but a minute sentiment for Krsna, which you just got when you met me, and therefore divide up and practice Daivi Varnashrama Dharma so you can gradually attain the goal of Shudda Bhakti.

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    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

    </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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    He replies,

     

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by anadi

    This prescription is not from Sri Caitanya or His empowered representatives from Vrindavan, who followed His teachings.

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    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> And of course it was a paraphrase of mine, and when I later went on to give direct evidence that Srila Prabhupada did prescribe the DVD system to "everyone" in his Iskcon society. And then logically concluded that since a purpose of Iskcon was to assist US in attaining the highest perfection, Shuddha Bhakti, that I was speaking in line with the Siddhanta.

     

    but this point is only addressed later, as the diversion continued, as Anadi posts this.

     

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by anadi

    "Bhakti is not related to any Institution.

    Bhakti is the relation between the Worshipable Deity and the devotee, and guru assists his disciple in making conscious that loving relation."

    When an Institution came into being, that is not because of bhakti, but because of material managerial considerations, and politics will come into life.

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    <!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

    And The definition of bhakti for the Gaudiya Vaishnavas has been clearly stated by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

    Uttama Bhakti – pure divine loving service consists of activities –shilanam which are favorable anukulyena – give pleasure in the highest degree to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.

    It must be devoid shunyam of material desires anyabhilash, knowledge of the Absolutness of the Lord jnana, and karma – activities according varna-ashram dharma.

     

    So at this point I tell him he is using a narrow definition of Bhakti to try to defeat me by attempting to show that my use of the word Bhakti is not applicable to my contention and thus my contention is not to be taken seriously. To which he replies.

     

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by anadi

    The definition of Bhakti (as) Shuddha Bhakti is not a “narrow” definition, but the true definition of Bhakti. When a (Gaudiya) Vaishnava speaks of bhakti he means always shuddha bhakti, not aropa siddha bhakti, or sanga siddha bhakti.

    This definition of bhakti was given by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

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    To which I put forth the following to smash this crafty diversion once and for all.

     

    <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by BD

    Now here we have HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami apparently caught in the act!! Is he a "real" Gaudiya Vaisnava?

    Purport: Adi 4:21-22

    In the Caitanya-caritamrta three kinds of devotional service are described-namely, bhakti (ordinary devotional service), suddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) and viddha-bhakti (mixed devotional service).

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    And of course back to that original gaff,

     

    "This prescription is not from Sri Caitanya or His empowered representatives from Vrindavan, who followed His teachings."

     

    We see again, that according to this approach, one must also reject Srila Prabhupada from being among such empowered representatives who followed his teachings, because in FACT it was part of his prescription according to his direct words. Holy Aparadha Batman!

     

    And here we have a perfect example of....Poisoning.

     

    HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami comes to the west, claiming to be the empowered Diksa Guru and Acharya for the Gaudiya Sampradaya. This is the first we hear of such. He gives us a way to understand the essence of the message of the past acharyas, by offering instruction on the matter.

     

    But some decide they can understand the past Acharya's without first understanding the most current.

     

    So they find themselves in a no mans land, and begin to attack the disciples of the Acharya using snippets from the teachings of past acharyas out of context just to appear to have superior knowledge of the intricacies of the various terms and tattvas involved, when in fact, in context, the terms were appropriately applied, though they have other applications on different levels of vision which are equally true, though not for consideration according to the CONTEXT.

     

    CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

     

    IF the context is preaching with the Acharya's blessings, the preaching is clearly defendable.

     

    If the context is preaching for self-aggrandizement without search for truth but simply the presumption of superior knowledge, the preaching is easily smashed.

     

    In this instance a person did not come among a group of peers to submissively receive and carefully share the truth with integrity.

     

    It was simply walking up to Audarya Fellowship Forums, and marking it with hormones, trying to egg someone into a mental pissing match.

     

    Now, ask yourself this, what Gaudiya Vaisnava Acharya would approve of such antics, which end up excluding A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from membership in the group of "Gaudiya Vaisnavas" by directly implying he diminished the use of the word Bhakti, and giving evidence from past Acharya's to rest his case.

     

    The poison in the some of those wells along Radha Kund during Kali Yuga is quite potent. Those who indiscriminately drink will get Shuddha bhakti also.

     

    Between now and then, I dare not guess what the present state of spiritual turmoil such persons are in for, but to each their own, I call em as I see em, and buyer beware. Here be dragons and pirahhnas, lions, tigers, and bears, Maya is crafty in applying her wares, Beware aspiring Bhakta Beware.


  2.  

    "You are making arguments on this message board where very few people know all the intricacies of Gaudiya Philosophy."

     

    And in this case, making arguements means artificially manufacturing arguements, a sure sign of slow poisoning taking effect.

     

    The articles such a person chooses to contend are pointedly attacked by choosing main words that are actually broadly interpreted conceptual structures being applied quite suitably in a context to which they are perfectly applicable.

     

    This is a classic straw man type of arguementation. Can't beat the essence, go for the strawman and beat him up. But this type of straw man is a ghost also.

     

    The essence of the subject being presented is fine, but to manufacture arguement for arguements sake, one chooses a word in another's presentation and argues that it was used incorrectly, and goes on to imply that the other person's entire presentation had no transcendental value and was based on a foundation no sounder than a riven cloud.

     

    When in fact the definition of the word was manipulated so narrowly that it only appears to contradict, and in reality, the word was used correctly to support the truth.

     

    For example. In a thread where some people are repeating the instructions of the person they have chosen to their heart and mind to be the most prominent Acharya of the teachings of the Gaudiya line and the most current link (for them), in a preaching effort, based on quotations, Anadi had obliquely challenged the transcendental validity of the presentation based on a technical arguement regarding the definition of some key words, words which I will show are broadly interpreted without impropriety.

     

    So Anadi says in regards to this statement of mine to which he adds emphasis in bold..

     

     

    He replies,

     

     

    This prescription is not from Sri Caitanya or His empowered representatives from Vrindavan, who followed His teachings.

     

    And of course it was a paraphrase of mine, and when I later went on to give direct evidence that Srila Prabhupada did prescribe the DVD system to "everyone" in his Iskcon society. And then logically concluded that since a purpose of Iskcon was to assist US in attaining the highest perfection, Shuddha Bhakti, that I was speaking in line with the Siddhanta.

     

    but this point is only addressed later, as the diversion continued, as Anadi posts this.

     

     

    "Bhakti is not related to any Institution.

    Bhakti is the relation between the Worshipable Deity and the devotee, and guru assists his disciple in making conscious that loving relation."

    When an Institution came into being, that is not because of bhakti, but because of material managerial considerations, and politics will come into life.

    And The definition of bhakti for the Gaudiya Vaishnavas has been clearly stated by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

    Uttama Bhakti – pure divine loving service consists of activities –shilanam which are favorable anukulyena – give pleasure in the highest degree to <st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>.

    It must be devoid shunyam of material desires anyabhilash, knowledge of the Absolutness of the Lord jnana, and karma – activities according varna-ashram dharma.

     

    So at this point I tell him he is using a narrow definition of Bhakti to try to defeat me by attempting to show that my use of the word Bhakti is not applicable to my contention and thus my contention is not to be taken seriously. To which he replies.

     

     

    The definition of Bhakti (as) Shuddha Bhakti is not a “narrow” definition, but the true definition of Bhakti. When a (Gaudiya) Vaishnava speaks of bhakti he means always shuddha bhakti, not aropa siddha bhakti, or sanga siddha bhakti.

    This definition of bhakti was given by Srila Rupa Gosvami.

    To which I put forth the following to smash this crafty diversion once and for all.

     

     

    Now here we have HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami apparently caught in the act!! Is he a "real" Gaudiya Vaisnava?

     

    Purport: Adi 4:21-22

     

    In the Caitanya-caritamrta three kinds of devotional service are described-namely, bhakti (ordinary devotional service), suddha-bhakti (pure devotional service) and viddha-bhakti (mixed devotional service).

     

    And of course back to that original gaff,

     

    "This prescription is not from Sri Caitanya or His empowered representatives from Vrindavan, who followed His teachings."

     

    We see again, that according to this approach, one must also reject Srila Prabhupada from being among such empowered representatives who followed his teachings, because in FACT it was part of his prescription according to his direct words. Holy Aparadha Batman!

     

    And here we have a perfect example of....Poisoning.

     

    HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami comes to the west, claiming to be the empowered Diksa Guru and Acharya for the Gaudiya Sampradaya. This is the first we hear of such. He gives us a way to understand the essence of the message of the past acharyas, by offering instruction on the matter.

     

    But some decide they can understand the past Acharya's without first understanding the most current.

     

    So they find themselves in a no mans land, and begin to attack the disciples of the Acharya using snippets from the teachings of past acharyas out of context just to appear to have superior knowledge of the intricacies of the various terms and tattvas involved, when in fact, in context, the terms were appropriately applied, though they have other applications on different levels of vision which are equally true, though not for consideration according to the CONTEXT.

     

    CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

     

    IF the context is preaching with the Acharya's blessings, the preaching is clearly defendable.

     

    If the context is preaching for self-aggrandizement without search for truth but simply the presumption of superior knowledge, the preaching is easily smashed.

     

    In this instance a person did not come among a group of peers to submissively receive and carefully share the truth with integrity.

     

    It was simply walking up to Audarya Fellowship Forums, and marking it with hormones, trying to egg someone into a mental pissing match.

     

    Now, ask yourself this, what Gaudiya Vaisnava Acharya would approve of such antics, which end up excluding A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada from membership in the group of "Gaudiya Vaisnavas" by directly implying he diminished the use of the word Bhakti, and giving evidence from past Acharya's to rest his case.

     

    The poison in the some of those wells along Radha Kund during Kali Yuga is quite potent. Those who indiscriminately drink will get Shuddha bhakti also.

     

    Between now and then, I dare not guess what the present state of spiritual turmoil such persons are in for, but to each their own, I call em as I see em, and buyer beware. Here be dragons and pirahhnas, lions, tigers, and bears, Maya is crafty in applying her wares, Beware aspiring Bhakta Beware.


  3.  

    My point is even the most qualified among us here are students, and to take the position that some should essentially shut up because you believe they are wrong is pretty closed minded.

     

    All the simple new age views about the teacher and the student and how the teacher is always as student aside...(as it has its application, just not relevant in cases of mistaken identity, aka false authority)

     

    If this were an orderly classroom being directed by a teacher in an orderly way, those who did not know would essentially shut up, unless they were submissively asking a question from someone they assumed would be able to answer it.

     

    If one cannot recognize who has something to offer on a particular subject, they may approach the wrong person.

     

    The internet is actually quite chaotic, especially forums unmitigated by potent authority figures. Remember, there was ALOT that Srila Prabhupada would not tolerate in the beginning, and he kept a very orderly house around his person, like a father, ORDERING MOST EVERYONE AROUND, but with love in his heart, so the orders were easy to obey.

     

    The Vedic Spirit of Debate and its Etiquette, put simply is that 2 or more people agree on the following.

     

    1. Recognition that one is holding a particular viewpoint regarding some object, and considers it relatively OR absolutely true, and thus defensible.

     

    2. Recognition that if one is found to be in illusion it is welcomed, because they will find relief in the shelter of the truth revealed.

     

    3. THUS a Willingness to be proved wrong by evidence from descended authority, presented in a logical fashion so as to instruct fully.

     

    Anything else is a junket into the world of arguementation via a quest for power over others on false authority, one's false ego.

     

    And people who are up to this love the internet. I should know, I flirted with this disaster, even backed up by Srila Prabhupada's authority, for Maya has been looking over my shoulder and tempting me since I started typing on this box.

     

    So sometimes, woven in between the color commentary of the wannabees, and the cackling of the jackals, there appears a sincere thread of honest inquiry, and that is what keeps the Devarsi wannabee in me tapped into the transcendental potential of this dimension of Lord Indra's net.

     

    So please consider me learning to teach, teaching to serve, and out on a japa walk for the evening.

     

    Hare Krsna

     

    BM


  4.  

    Now as seen on T.V.

    Organize yourself, your family and your community into Daiva Varasrama Dharma or DVD!

    I thought I was a Brahmana but my friends at the Alchoholics Anonymous Meeting convinced me that I'm a Sudra!

    I like to make money and chant, am I a Vaishya?

    I'm a single mom, looking for a Ksatriya to sweep me off my feet!

    All this and more! And all your Questions Answered for only $199.99 for your Do it Yourself DVD Kit.

    Who needs a current Acarya! Forget Diksa, you'll just fall down anyway.

    Hurry while supplies last!

     

     

     

    Now THAT was funny. and clever. but partly based on a misunderstanding because the following was never shown to you until now.

     

    Here is your Sudra's Diksa,

    Mr. Beggar.

     

     

    Prabhupada: But for management we have to do that. One can do the sudra’s work nicely—let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?

     

    Mahamsa: Does he get second initiation?

     

    Prabhupada: Everything he will get.

     

    Mahamsa: He gets.

     

    Prabhupada: Yes. Second initiation means recognized: “Now he has become fully competent Vaishnava.” Just like master is teaching the servant, “Now you give massage in this way, this way.” But that does not mean he has become servant.

     

     

    And Also Note,

     

    Prabhupada: Not that a sudra man is by force become a brahmana. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a sudra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya sam... He’ll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a sudra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a sudra can get perfection provided he does the work of a sudra perfectly.

     

    Hari-sauri: For Krishna.

     

    Prabhupada: Therefore why a sudra artificially should be a brahmana? Let them, let him remain a sudra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of sudra, he’ll also be as good as a brahmana. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.

     

    Please note here that he is following rules and regulations of a sudra, yet receiving 2nd Diksa initiation from a bona-fide Acharya, and is considered

    AS GOOD as a brahmana, not qualified to act as brahmana.

     

    But if the sudra follows perfectly they will DEVELOP (implies period of time) all good Vaisnava qualities, of which qualities many are the same as the good qualities of one Qualified as a Brahmana (that is by social emotional maturity, and not just acting as brahmana because he knows some rituals and can write legibly)

     

    So Vaisnava Sudra will develop all good qualities. But should not be acting in a LEADERSHIP role in Iskcon. If there is another more qualified.

     

    That is what this discussion is really about. A multitude of people who have fooled people that they were QUALIFIED to teach and lead and that even if they conceeded "lack of qualification" it was done in false humility and they begged off that the situation was an emergency, but THEY were the ones who created the chaotic emergency by their deviations and the banning of truly empowered neophytes from the power club.

     

    And now they are back on their feet, wiser for the wear, and some of them never even imbibed a fraction of the Poisonous Spell that the Tamal Ham gang had over so many for so long.

     

    The victims were meant to know their varna, and enjoy gradual advancement in their spiritual life through devotional service in the mixed category.

     

    This was Srila Prabhupada's final diagnosis and prescription for his immediate disciples, WHAT TO MENTION OF THE REST OF THE SUFFERING WEST who we were to help him wake up, by his guidance.

     

    The prognosis is improving by the minute, the more we consider how to arrange ourselves in harmony with our neighbor, without him having to arrange us (Communists at the doorstep), so we learn DVD, know who our dance partners are, and Chant dance and be happy.

     

    BM

     

     

     


  5. In there with the sperm, not consciously aware until the 7th month.

     

    SB 3.31

     

    TRANSLATION

    Thus endowed with the development of consciousness from the seventh month after his conception, the child is tossed downward by the airs that press the embryo during the weeks preceding delivery. Like the worms born of the same filthy abdominal cavity, he cannot remain in one place.

    PURPORT

    At the end of the seventh month the child is moved by the bodily air and does not remain in the same place, for the entire uterine system becomes slackened before delivery. The worms have been described here as sodara. Sodara means “born of the same mother.” Since the child is born from the womb of the mother and the worms are also born of fermentation within the womb of the same mother, under the circumstances the child and the worms are actually brothers. We are very anxious to establish universal brotherhood among human beings, but we should take into consideration that even the worms are our brothers, what to speak of other living entities.

     

     

    Here it is, the other bit of info on the soul coming to the body, the one about the raindrops.

     

    "Spirit souls are everywhere. They are trying to come out of the earth. [Points to the grass.] As soon as there is an opportunity, they want to express their consciousness. Those souls who descend from higher planets to this planet sometimes fall down to the ground in raindrops. Then they become grass and gradually evolve to higher forms of life.

    from Life Comes From Life, The 13th morning walk, 1973"


  6. Hare Krsna!

     

    Brother Sun Sister Moon is a spiritual classic.

     

    So is Moulin Rouge, if you can see the transcendental reflected everywhere.

    What high art, and ALL the main actors were completely in the zone.

     

    And "Run Lola Run" is a watershed cinematic event in its own right on many levels.

     

    Baraka is profound, but the baby chick scene is heavy, and may be bhasa for alot of purified souls, and quite alarming to children, be prepared to deal with the fall out.

     

    And there is one of my all time favorites. The Man Who Planted Trees. Very hard to find, but don't worry, they probably play this movie in the Spiritual Sky.

     

    Hare Krsna


  7.  

    Come on Mahak has hit a home run for the Truth, Yuga Dharma. Enough said...

    Gentlemen, I am shocked and astonished that you would allow some voice in your head to make you think you need to make a choice between participating in the Yuga Dharma and Daivi Varnashrama Dharma.

     

     

    VAD is a dream yet unfulfilled. So, we can build VAD by a life of endeavor and still have chaos, quarrel, and confusion, or we can do the YUGA Dharma, which removes the chaos, quarrel, and confusion. We follow Haridas thakur, vaisnava authority, who has no VAD chains around his neck (nor guns in his beadbag).

     

    Who but one as pure and advanced (or more) than Haridas Thakur himself can label the Varnasrama dharma institution that which chains one to the material world. When just as many quotes presented in these very discussions describe how VAD is what assists conditioned souls to get out of the material world.

     

    Of course for Haridas Thakur to engage in VAD would seem to be a regression, he is such a pure advanced servitor, what use would pretending at the execution of regulative principles do to increase his bliss.

     

    It seems Mahak claims this status for all of us.

     

    Just chant and be happy. Except for the 8 hours a day you are a slave to someone who sees you no different than a dollar bill, and will exploit your children too. No need for protection, just chant while you can still afford a roof over your head.

     

    Why I oughta....

     

    First HEAR THIS.

     

    SB 9.10.51

    Purport Among the four yugas—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness movement, is meant for this purpose.

    <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

    Now, Try this one on for size.

     

    Sri Sri Haridas Thakur loves MahaPrabhu so much that he dives right back into the material world, determined to give the holy name to EVERYONE IN HIS OWN COSMIC EGG, STARTING WITH EARTH, BY HOOK OR BY CROOK.

     

    And he accepts BOTH the yuga dharma of congregationally chanting the Holy Names of Sri Radha Krsna AND acts just like one of us, plunging into Kali yuga 120 years ago, taking birth in the family of a pure devotee, taking some average vaisya position in society, considered just a nice Grhasta by his Godbrothers, yet recognized for who he is by a very exalted and intimate servant of Lord Chaitanya who requests he make certain to give the Holy Name to "the west" aka everyone outside of Holy Bharata.

     

    CC, Adi Lila, Chap. 3 TEXT 19

    TEXT

    yuga-dharma pravartaimu nama-sankirtana

    cari bhava-bhakti diya nacamu bhuvana

    TRANSLATION "I shall personally inaugurate the religion of the age-nama-sankirtana, the congregational chanting of the holy name. I shall make the world dance in ecstasy, realizing the four mellows of loving devotional service.

     

    The only Yajna for this age is the Congregational Chanting of the Holy Names. There is no other way. X3

     

    All Yajna is meant for Lord Visnu's satisfaction. He himself ordered the Kali Yuga Dharma of Nama Sankirtana Yajna for his own satisfaction.

     

    Bhagavad Gita 3.9

     

    Yajna means Lord Visnu, or sacrificial performances. All sacrificial performances also are meant for the satisfaction of Lord Visnu. The Vedas enjoin: yajno vai visnuh. In other words, the same purpose is served whether one performs prescribed yajnas or directly serves Lord Visnu. Krsna consciousness is therefore performance of yajna as it is prescribed in this verse. The varnasrama institution also aims at this for satisfying Lord Visnu. "Varnasramacara-vata purusena parah puman/visnur aradhyate..." (Visnu Purana 3.8.8)

     

    SB 9.10.51

    <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

    Purport:

    Among the four yugas—Satya, Treta, Dvapara and Kali—the Kali-yuga is the worst, but if the process of varnasrama-dharma is introduced, even in this age of Kali, the situation of Satya-yuga can be invoked. The Hare Krsna movement, or Krsna consciousness movement, is meant for this purpose.

     

    A home run Beggar? Mahak was tagged before he got to first base.

     

    Get with it fellas, times a wasting. Its all one, and its all good.

     

    Hari Nama Sankirtana Yajna means CONGREGATION.

     

    Many many people coming together, congregating. Every day, for a whole lifetime. Daivi Varnasrama Dharma is the PART AND PARCEL of that Yajna dharma in that it is what we do the rest of the time to support everything from our chanting parties, to the care of our young, to the funding and managing and protection of a place for Brahmins to do their trade in peace and teach the children well, etc.

     

    They are as inseperable as the Holy Name from our dear Haridas Thakur's lips.

     

    All Glories to the Namacharya Haridas Thakur.

     

    All Glories to the Founder Acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, His DIVINE grace AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who built a HOUSE the whole world could live in, and lay their head in when they got home exhausted but enlivened from a day of Chanting and dancing and feasting.

     

    A house called the Divine (Daivi) Varnasrama institution.

     

    For you. And me. Until we don't need it anymore. And still we may come and visit and make repairs from time to time, because we love each other.

     

    If I am hard on you guys it is because I love you, and those demons in your head don't stand a chance against that. And I need your true and abundantly available human maturity and wisdom to be applied to this situation in cooperation so we can do our Namacharya justice. Let us keep such lofty aspirations as becoming a ragatmika high above our heads, and see the only way to get there is to SEE WE STILL HAVE ONE FOOT IN THE GROUND ANYWAY, and convert that into Jacob's ladder by which our yet still deluded millions of our brothers and sisters all around us can hitch a ride back to Godhead with us on Srila Prabhupada's Sri Nama express.

     

    Hare Krsna

     

    ys

     

    Bhakta Mark. (screen name Bhakta Devarsi)


  8. Dear Anadi

     

    When you finally realize that you are just a beginner in Mixed Bhakti, gimme a jingle, maybe we can share a Kirtan or reading from the Bhagavad Gita.

     

    I haven't read a single rainbow colored diatribe you have posted in 2 days because it is all blah blah blah if you can't accept your true position, and I don't want to encourage you feel you need to wrap yourself up in concepts above your pay grade.

     

    Best wishes in your unwinding. And please forgive me if I was rough with my personal attacks, but consider the analogy that I was in my mind just picking you up while you were still talking and carrying you from the room, and placing you outside the door so you would not disturb the serious discussions your seniors were involved in.

     

    In reality on the internet this is not possible, and that is why I am (gradually) withdrawing from this forum, or any internet forum, because it is not possible to prevent people from doing what they should not be doing in the middle of a conversation, and it is NEVER possible to force a person to be reasonable. I was a school teacher, and if a student ever started to do what you did, they would find themselves in the principles office in a blink of an eye, even if I had to carry or chase them there, both of which I have had to do to keep harmony in class.

     

    Hare Krsna

     

    sincerely

     

    Bhakta Mark


  9.  

    I dont think, sunflower oil is used.

    But yes, groundnut oil can be used, also at some temples soyabin oil is used which should be fine.

     

    Soybean oil is toxic.

     

    Sunflower oil is one of the only vegetable oils to be considered fit for consumption according to Ayurveda.

     

    Of course, depending on how it is processed, sunflower oil too can be rancid by the time it gets to the store. Most are these days, they just use deodorizers to mask the rancidity.

     

    Peanut oil is a far cry from healthy.

     

    Ghee, Sesame, Olive, Palm, Shea Butter, Coconut, and Sunflower. Properly processed, these oils are healthful or neutral at best. And should be chosen from the order above More or less.

     

    Anything else is just below neutral (as in harmful), and the above when processed incorrectly form transfatty acids and are harmful as well.

     

    Just the facts.

     

    Consumption of fried foods is a luxury for persons serious about maintaining a mode of goodness in order to have more strength to follow the regulative principles.

     

    The constant intake of fried foods, ESPECIALLY those fried in harmful oils has been proven to be a serious detriment to health, puts ones body under the influence of TAMA GUNA (destructive oils), and you get what you get.

     

    Be Well

     

    Hare Krsna


  10. Devotional Service.

     

    From chapter 1 of Nectar of Instruction by HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami

     

    Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in Krsna consciousness. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers Jagai and Madhai, who blasphemed and struck Nityananda Prabhu. In His Siksastaka Lord Caitanya wrote, trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna: “One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree.” One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one’s own self, but when Krsna or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that Hanuman set fire to Lanka, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord Ramacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but Krsna incited his anger: “You must fight!” To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord.

     

     

    So eat what you enjoy in your prasadam, if you are predisposed to anger, find someone appropriate to be angry with, until that emotion is purified.

     

     

    BG 5.29 - Everything depends on one's practical performance of duties in an effort to control the senses and conquer the influence of desire and anger. And, attaining Krsna consciousness by controlling the above-mentioned passions, one remains factually in the transcendental stage, or brahman-nirvana.


  11.  

    There is not much to impress about me. Just a simple sudra with fairly base qualities...trying to raise myself by associating with Vaisnava's.

     

    I do have two qualities Prabhu, that get me into deep water often. They are, over sensitivity and idealism. I kind of lived in a dream for years. I do not live near temples or other devotees here in Australia. So I had this conception in my mind that devotees were special. That they spoke kindly and generously to each other. This dream was somewhat shattered when I saw the reality after getting a computer one year ago.

     

    But I still hold to the ideal and will work towards it. As I am beginning to wake up from illusion I am seeing so much filth and dirty rags hanging off my soul. This is not false humility, this is fact. Then I met a kind Swami who saw past all my crap. And saw something else. He is my ideal and hope. Just a tiny drop of his divine vision would be so nice. He has given me hope. Actually he is sending a mala from Gambhira to me next week after a wait of three years (this week). So much looking forward to this. So I will try to honor this gift and be more sensitive in the future.

     

    I was wrong again, I did want to hear your reply. Please accept my humble obeisances. Please remember me in your prayers when you commune with your new mala. For it is a lonely place where the devotees around you think they are already liberated and you just refuse to prop them up, and if this is a fraction of a drop of what our Lord felt at Gambira, then I will never be able to handle such emotion anyway, and will just keep plugging away with my shadow of devotion, at least its something.

     

    May you always be so humble, and may some of that come my way.

     

    All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.


  12.  

    I apologise for posting the big picture of the Australian magpie yesterday. I just had to post it after beggar posted the picture of the tiny little german magpie. The Autralian version is a classic. A real Ksatriya. They are not afraid of humans and if you are peaceful in heart you can walk close to them. But in nesting season they are mean critters. They swoop and attack and can cause serious harm.

     

    You say you are not insensitive. But after reading your posts I have noticed you freely sling alot of mud at others. In particular I found you spoke very harshly to our member Anadi Prabhu. I don't know why you did this. Was it because he is a follower of the Babaji's? You spoke awful to him. He is a very nice Vaisnava (I have spoken to him privately several times). But sure, like the rest of us, he is not perfect.

     

    Then again, by me bringing up these things I am placing myself on the high horse and preparing for fall. Sorry about the magpie and my insensitivity.

     

    Wow, really glad I checked back to make sure my last post made it through, as I was kicked off the net for a moment.

     

    Bija, you are one here I admire and appreciated for what it is worth.

     

    Some people used your light hearted attempt to sling mud at the innocent.

     

    Anadi is hardly innocent. If he came into my temple slinging the nonsense he was, he would have been shown the door right quick. It just amazes me that people would chide me, but let his dribble slide. Well maybe I am not amazed anymore.

     

    But I don't even want to hear your reply, because I am afraid I will lose my nice impression of you.

     

    Anyway, until I have control over my own forum so I can silence the poison of anti-Prabhupada, I will stick by my first decision and bail. I was so happy that the lead moderators of Audarya are away in India doing whatever so that there could be some real nitty gritty discussed here, but now I realize that the "already pure devotee" sychophants can do just a good a job as drowning out the truth.

     

    Besides, what do all the pure devotees here need to hear about impure dvd for.

     

    Anyway, I wish you well on your way to Goloka.

     

    Hare Krsna


  13. Of course it is kept in the center until no longer needed.

     

    Regs first, atma nivedanam second.

     

    Regs given by Guru.

     

    Follow Guru.

     

    This is the proper adjustment that was already made!

     

    All this talk of things higher than our first steady bhava is premature nonsense.

     

    And if a Bhakta is awarded raganuga sadhana and is following in the footsteps of those residents of Vrndaban who have spontaneous loving attachment and service (ragatmikas), that Bhakta will discuss these higher topics of aspiration and realization in private with other renunciates, and not in public where there rejection of the basics (DVD) might confuse a beginner.

     

    This would never happen, except for around a bunch of pretenders.

     

    Hare Krsna


  14. Ok Adamantine Resilience.

     

    That is OK, my sword is made of Prabhupadinium.

     

     

    It may be relevant in your iskcon organisation.

     

    That is HDG's Iskcon organization. Or did you forget already as you are so busy trying to start your own?

     

     

    The very odd thing is that you are presenting this like it is a new revelation or something that only a couple of you are clued into.That is not the case. The result of trying to make some formal recognition of the four varnas within iskcon will be just the opposite of what Srila Prabhupada is a advocating in the conversation above.

    The odd thing is how you can completely ignore all the evidence that Srila Prabhupada ordered formal recognition of the four varnas within Iskcon, over and over again. Maybe not so odd, as this seems perfectly in character at this point.

     

    You still accuse of "trying" and equate that to Forcing, and then predict poor results. Just because you failed, your sour grapes are intoxicating your mind.

     

     

    Srila Prabhupada is clearly pointing to the consciousness of devotional service as the transcendental equalizer as opposed to which type of work one engages in.

    He also clearly advocates the literal enactment of what he preaches, just because you (among others trust me) can abstract the figurative symbolism does not negate my first point, only enhances it if one is fortunate.

     

     

    Just because he doesn't mention something in one or two sentences of a conversation doesn't mean anything. It should not be taken as a license to speculate further on what is being said.

    The quotes you cherry picked according to make this comment did not support the comment whatsoever. Your blade is rusty.

     

    And finally shame on you for ending with this quote.

     

     

    Youare using his quotes but are turning the meaning on it's head. The sannyasi needs to appreciate the equality of the pot washer to himself if they are both acting for krsna's pleasure. If the pot washer is acting for krsna's pleasure and the sannyasi is just acting as a sannyasi then the pot washer is superior and is the true vaisnava.

    Which is such an out and out false accusation. You give absolutely no direct evidence that anyone turns the meaning of any quotes on their head, just your own speculative interpretation. Srila Prabhupada is preaching to the broad and the specific, including exact instructions while emphasising the transcendental. You act as if he was only speaking to those who could ALREADY understand the finest theistic conception in his preaching, which is a further indication of lack of understanding around where us commoners are at.

     

     

     

    Hare Krsna


  15.  

    Yes I agree we cannot hear properly. But what makes you think you can hear Supersouls external manifestation any better? If you are not hearing your Guru's voice as Supersoul's voice then you are in the same position deaf.

     

    If your guru's voice is not the same as Supersoul's voice then you have the wrong guru.

     

    There is no difference in quality between the two. If someone thinks they are hearing guru properly but cannot hear Supersoul then clearly they are not hearing their guru.

     

    What we get from this position is just a shadow or reflection of his words. That can help us greatly in our progress no doubt but we should remain mindful of our status as mixed devotees. As mixed devotees we hear as mixed devotees. Pretending otherwise will not help us.

     

    First we are trained by external Guru because we have external consciousness, just like ALL neophytes are recommended to worship the statue until they see it is not a statue, first we listen to external guru, because it is easier.

     

    Not easy. Easier. Or it wouldn't be the process.

     

    Then dictation from Inner Chaityh Guru becomes more and more clear.

     

    Just put one foot in front of the other. Step One. Step two.


  16.  

    My understanding of what Srila Swami Maharaj said is that for the benefit of society at large to grow to become Krishna Conscious, it needs to be broken down into the varnashram sections, but also that the devotees are not part of the varnas but play those roles depending on the service necessities. But just as we shouldn't equate ourselves with our bodies "I am a black man, I am a white man, I am a woman" etc. we shouldn't equate ourselves with a varna like "I am a ksatriya". This is a role we may take on to do the necessary service and display proper behavior to the public at large, but this is not who we are and is another misconception to be avoided in our seach for our eternal identity of servant of the Lord.

     

    This is the way I harmonize the words of Srila Swami Maharaj. Please let me know how you think about this.

     

    This is called a preaching technique. We were a bunch of drooling slobbering dogs. We cleaned up nice but couldn't maintain it because it wasn't what we REALLY wanted. So he mercifully TRIED to trick us into categorizing ourselves AS WE ACTUALLY WERE (ARE).

     

    So then we could make ACTUAL spiritual advancement from there, instead of thinking we were pure advanced devotees already, and looking down on everyone else.

     

    It really is this simple.

     

    Hare Krsna


  17.  

    I thought it was fitting because this was a topic of being "puffed up and thinking you are advanced." It certainly wasn't meant to be negative in any way, and I had no negative motives behind posting it. Thanks for your opinion my friend, be well.

    Ouch, talk about presumption, my passion was flying under the flag of ignorance, please forgive my blunder, I guess that quote becomes me.

     

    Sorry, sorry, please participate and don't let my passion get in the way of a potentially nice discussion, and I will be more vigilant.

     

    Thanks and be well too.


  18.  

    Hare Krsna Theist(?)

     

    Please reply to the conversations posted, please and thank you.

     

    CB-r

     

    That is a Ksyatria for ya.

     

    Perhaps I underestimate Theist. Here I am thinking he needs a little time to lick his wounds, but apparently CB-R sees an adamantine shell of resiliency.

     

    Either way, this is all Srila Prabhupada's doing as he is Supersoul y'know.

     

    Hare Krsna


  19. This is a deep look into our Spiritual Masters desires as spoken.

     

    This part especially seems relevant to the recent topic of conversation, and something all of us "high minded" folk should consider deeply.

     

     

    Everything will be perfect. Not that Krishna is advising immediately sarva-dharman parityajya [bg. 18.66]. For that stage you are not prepared. That I know. But in your present stage what you’ll do, that is perfect.

     

    Giriraja: You mean I should leave everything and start a farm?

     

    Prabhupada: Where is the question of leaving? Agriculture... You take to agriculture—that means you leave everything?

     

    Giriraja: Well, what I have now.

     

    Prabhupada: And what you have got? You are asking that “I require now food.” That means you have nothing. You have no food even.

     

    Where is the question of leaving anything. What have we got. We are going to the grocery store begging for food that is shipped from 1000's of miles away, using currency which is fiat inflated to bring about our enslavement, and we think we have something to lose.

     

    This is not just Iskcon folks. It is the shape of everyone Srila Prabhupada tried to reach, including those his Godbrothers are valiantly reaching out to.

     

    Anyone who doesn't understand DVD certainly does not understand what is Transcendental to DVD.

     

    That much is sure.

     

    Hare Krsna


  20.  

    Hare Krsna, All

     

    Maybe now a women has shown interest in DVD on line, the topic could have 'interest' to weak minded men that do nothing on the physical plane to create Vaisnava culture expressed by DVD.

     

    And talk a talk on line. While the women and children wail in distrees, in the real world of disfunctional Vaisnava society.

     

    CB-r

     

    Unfortunately, that is me, but at least I am now sure about how to proceed, I just hope that message is received by many more, so we can band together and make something nice to please and actually SATISFY our Spiritual Master.

     

    yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

    yasyaprasadanna gatih kuto 'pi

    dhyayam stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam

    vande guroh sri-caranaravindam.

     

     

    "By satisfaction of the spiritual master, the Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes satisfied. And by not satisfying the spiritual master, there is no chance of being promoted to the plane of Krsna consciousness. I should, therefore, meditate and pray for his mercy three times a day, and offer my respectful obeisances unto him, my spiritual master."

     

     

     

    Hare Krsna


  21. I will try my best to preach this way, especially now that Audarya Fellowship is allowing such nectar to permeate the internet, but first I need to purify myself, starting with this.

     

    As far as Theists latest pontification towards my faulty self,

     

     

    "It is the heads that wear those masks that I choose to direct my fighting spirit towards. Therein lies my battlefield. Of ocurse there is the world outside of our minds that should be dealt with as well. So there I speak out against abortion and animal slaughter mainly and chime in on other issues as they arise. The internet is wonderful for this style of reaching out to people and showing how God consciousness relates to every aspect of our lives both internal and external."

    Well, if you had such introspective potencies, why do all those inner demons continue to take over your pen and allow you to diminish and belittle the efforts of those who are taking action according to the instructions of Srila Prabhupada according to their Varna, ie. Ksyatrias acting and organizing under his Iskcon-DVD banner. (Remember, one of the "purposes" of the Krsna Consciousness movement).

     

    For instance, the Pratistha demon, don't know his proper name, who anguishes at needing to let others who back up all their "trivial efforts at reform" with Guru Sadhu and Sastra play in the sandbox that has your name written over 10000 times in its sand.

     

    You say you speak out against abortion and animal slaughter, well how very humanitarian of you, I would be more impressed if you preached DVD to the people who were doing it so they might see how they DO NOT NEED TO in order to enjoy sensual gratification.

     

    Look, just stop confronting me please, I take no pleasure in dismantling your ego, I got my own to deal with, but if you must persist, have at it. From now on your words will just echo in the hollow halls of I me and mine, and will go without reply from me as testament to how miniscule I perceive your actual threat to the progress of my Guru's mission. Though with statements like the one below, I doubt you will give up on this.

     

     

    "Not many here see reforming iskcon as something worth spending their whole working on. We wish you well though in your endeavor to do so. But hopefully you will and you friends will see the necessity of leaving the nest and fly out on your own to make your own families as a result of your preaching efforts. All birds be they eagles sparrows or magpies must learn to fly on their own someday. As you grow bigger you must see the nest is too small to accomodate you present size."

    How high up there are you anyway. I can barely see your face with all those clouds and angels circling your head!!

     

    So here after tacitly grouping yourself with those "not many here" who see "reforming Iskcon" to be something spending their whole working on, you then SPEAK for all those "not many" by wishing such "reformer" people well.

     

    A self appointed spokesman now? Who is that Dhanasura or one of his cronies puffin you up there?

     

    Ah yes, everyone trying to follow the orders of Srila Prabhupada to see DVD in everyone as well as Supersoul and their Jiva spark, just fly away, do your own thing, that is a sign of Spiritual maturity. Let the Spirit of Iskcon be a fond memory, just like that kind but quirky little old Swami guy who tried so hard but just couldn't enlighten us enough.

     

    But of course he left an OBVIOUS successor to his wisdom now didn't he Big Daddy?

     

    Having fun yet?

     

    I am actually starting to just now, thanks Babe.

     

    Hare Krsna

     

    your servant in the balance of things.

     

    Bhakta Mark


  22.  

    There is a quote from the Tao Te Ching thats seems fitting here: "To know that you do not know is highest, to not know but think you know is flawed."

     

    Be well!

     

     

    Why fitting here? Your presumptuous implication truly mars the presentation of such a quintessential sutra.

     

    Geez Meez, stop with the cheese, be at ease if Vaisnavas you wish to please.

     

    Hare Krsna


  23.  

     

    This is from Chakra. DVD, is the answer all have been whating for.

     

    CB-r

    Juicy Discussions On Day Ten

     

    by Niscala Dasi

    Posted February 27, 2007

     

    Hare Krsna Dasi's article "The Dhanurdhara Scandal- What Decisive Actions were Taken?" reflects the frustration of us all with the lack of communications from the GBC on topics that are vitally important, in this case how we deal with perpetrators of child abuse. Our movement will never have the integrity it needs to have and to hold on to people with higher virtues, when truth, transparency, human decency and compassion are constantly compromised within the leadership.

    That is why the question raised on Day 9 of the meetings is so imperative- whether the GBC authority is spiritual or managerial? This essential question of whether the GBC is following Srila Prabhupada's direction to introduce varnasrama, thus separating the managerial from the spiritual authority, is the pivot on whether other issues will *ever* be taken seriously. People of ambition get lazy when they reach their comfortable situation, in this case world travel, the best accomodation, and reverent submission from the masses. Whether essential topics get discussed at all, or sufficently, or with honesty, is of little concern to them. Certainly from the reports, it was not as important as what happened when the gurukulis visited and what they refreshed themselves with on day 10.

    In contrast, a varnasrama meeting would be subject to a person or group who has nothing to gain or lose in this heirarchy but whose sole interest is transparency and integrity to the philosophy, the directions of guru and sastra and the qualities our society espouses. That is the brahmana and since he is a teacher to all, not just the ksatriya, he would never keep essential details of a meeting a closed secret to the society. A brahmana is always keen to inform and enlighten everyone- what to speak of those with spiritual concerns, he would take them most seriously.

    So long as men of ambition determine the direction of meetings and their reporting back to the society, the essential will never be separated from the trivial, and if essential topics be discussed at all, will not be with from the standpoint of integrity, but rather to appear as though they are doing something, just by raising the topic. Thus, people with essential concerns such as Hare Krsna Dasi will continue to be ignored and kept in the dark or fed such patronizing insults as "we dealt with it decisively!" This lack of information even on topics of our most heartfelt concern, smacks of impersonalism and hard-heartedness. It also sends an unambiguous message that what they want from us is *blind* submission, a perfect situation from a managerial point of view, but absolutely disastrous from the brahmana's standpoint. The former wants to avoid problems and have things running smoothly, even if principles are compromised, and the latter wants principles uncompromised, even if it causes all manner of problems and headaches. Thus brahmana and the ksatriya class can never merge, as they have opposing paradigms and qualifications by definition in the gita. They are however both essential, as are the head and the arms of the body, but when all the brain you have is in your arms, you in pretty bad shape. Even with the best juice bar outside your meeting room. Even mango.

     

    Jaya Nitai!!!

     

    So well said.

     

    What a devotee. What a woman. She is as intelligent as Queen Kunti.

     

    My queen, Niscala Dasi, I am blessed by your words.

     

    Hare Krsna


  24. Hare Krsna

     

    Is Caturbahu dasa B.R. in the house?

     

    I thought you might have access to that great conversation where Srila Prabhupada is telling his leading disciples through Hari-Sauri dasa something to the effect.

     

    "NO, not Sarva Dharman Parityajna, not that you surrender and come to him right away, there is process etc..."

     

    Saying this to identify their OBSTINATE REFUSAL to accept that there is a process within devotional service, and that they are already atma-nivedanam or fully surrendered.

     

    It would go nice with the Topic, ya got it??

     

    ys

     

    BD

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