Vaishnava_das108

 

Do you think if there was a later incarnation of Vishnu, would Srila Prabhupada have accept him or her or is the attachment to the Krishna incarnation too great? Or perhaps he does not view Krishan as an incarnation of Vishnu-I don't know I am asking. Surely there are some variables.

 

 

Though I cannot claim to speak on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, I can give my own opinion and say that there should be no problem accepting a future incarnation of Vishnu/Krishna, so long as there are clear indications of prophecy in the shastras.

 

The trouble with Sai Baba is that his followers have either spliced, invented or twisted some vague prophecies in SB's favour to make it look like he is an avatar, so this prophecy business has also turned dangerous.

 

I have a collection of these "prophecies" on my old site, created when I was a devotee of his:

 

http://geocities.com/dark_knight_9/prophecies.html

 

Needless to say, all these prophecies are either erroneous or twisted. I have yet to make a full refutation of these prophecies, but I can forward you to some other online refutations if you like.

 

Speaking of which, a friend recently told me that there is supposed to be a prophecy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's return somewhere in the Caitanya Bhagavata, though he could offer no verse to back up this claim. He is presently in India, I shall ask him again when he gets back. But just think! Mahaprabhu again, is it possible?

 

 

What would his thoughts be on a later incarnation such as Buddha?

 

 

As far as I know, Srimad Bhagavatam contains two prophecies of Buddha; one reveals the advent of Buddha that took place around 2500 years ago, while the other in Canto 2 states that a future incarnation of Buddha is expected when everyone has their own "airplane," or something of that like.

 

Srila Prabhupada's view of this second prophecy is that it may be describing an incarnation of Buddha that took place in another kalpa. For this particular kalpa, Buddha was born 2500 years ago or so.

 

Do you think if there was a later incarnation of Vishnu, would Srila Prabhupada have accept him or her or is the attachment to the Krishna incarnation too great? Or perhaps he does not view Krishan as an incarnation of Vishnu-I don't know I am asking. Surely there are some variables.

 

 

Though I cannot claim to speak on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, I can give my own opinion and say that there should be no problem accepting a future incarnation of Vishnu/Krishna, so long as there are clear indications of prophecy in the shastras.

 

The trouble with Sai Baba is that his followers have either spliced, invented or twisted some vague prophecies in SB's favour to make it look like he is an avatar, so this prophecy business has also turned dangerous.

 

I have a collection of these "prophecies" on my old site, created when I was a devotee of his:

 

http://geocities.com/dark_knight_9/prophecies.html

 

Needless to say, all these prophecies are either erroneous or twisted. I have yet to make a full refutation of these prophecies, but I can forward you to some other online refutations if you like.

 

Speaking of which, a friend recently told me that there is supposed to be a prophecy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's return somewhere in the Caitanya Bhagavata, though he could offer no verse to back up this claim. He is presently in India, I shall ask him again when he gets back. But just think! Mahaprabhu again, is it possible?

 

 

What would his thoughts be on a later incarnation such as Buddha?

 

 

As far as I know, Srimad Bhagavatam contains two prophecies of Buddha; one reveals the advent of Buddha that took place around 2500 years ago, while the other in Canto 2 states that a future incarnation of Buddha is expected when everyone has their own "airplane," or something of that like.

 

Srila Prabhupada's view of this second prophecy is that it may be describing an incarnation of Buddha that took place in another kalpa. For this particular kalpa, Buddha was born 2500 years ago or so.

Speaking of which, I just now recalled that I have a selection of Srila Prabhupada's quotes about Sai Baba on my old site. They are not ALL the quotes available, Srila Prabhupada said much more, but this is a few:

 

http://www.geocities.com/donmakaveli22/Prabhupada_on_sai.htm

Speaking of which, I just now recalled that I have a selection of Srila Prabhupada's quotes about Sai Baba on my old site. They are not ALL the quotes available, Srila Prabhupada said much more, but this is a few:

 

http://www.geocities.com/donmakaveli22/Prabhupada_on_sai.htm

 

Prabhupada was qualified to do this. Fine. But again, who gave you this moral duty?

 

 

I have already stated that in my last post; I have a moral duty to inform people of false teachers. Srila Prabhupada himself stated that we should do this. I have also been requested to do so by fellow ex-devotees due to my position in the SB Organisation when I was his devotee, as I apparently have much to contribute.

 

 

Just because you are a disgruntled (or whatever) ex-devotee of SSB, that doesn't give you the right to destroy other peoples faith etc. by spreading all that stuff - even if it's true. Suddenly I feel you've become the USA of this forum.

 

 

What is the use of having "faith" in a false teacher? Can you imagine the hurt and the anguish that will erupt when SB finally goes down, just like I myself suffered so much hurt and anguish?

 

As a matter of fact, I think I was one of the lucky ones. I can see now that Krishna had a plan by slowly easing me out of there by introducing me to Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy, so that the transition was made easily with a minimum of fuss and anguish. Others have not been so lucky, tragically enough. Some have been screwed up for life, others are in mental hospitals, and some have even lost their faith in God as a result of their traumatic experiences with SB.

 

Sorry, but we are an international community of ex-devotees who have united to form a movement against SB. Certain elements of ISKCON are also willing to helps us, and I myself have written an online paper that exposes one of SB's major declarations. I also intend to publish more (online?) papers that will surely expose more of his fallacious declarations/teachings from the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint? Apart from that, all the major law enforcement agencies of the world, viz., FBI, CIA, German Police force, Surete, Interpol, Scotland Yard, etc, have been apprised of the SB situation and they are helping us as well as conducting their own investigations. In fact, just a couple of days ago we received an email that suggested we may be on the receiving end of legal action. We are looking forward to this as this will be our greatest opportunity to expose SB in recognised courts of law.

 

What does all this have to do with Vaishnavism? Well, before you start going on about my supposed "vaishnava aparadha," you should consider what SB says about Krishna. In fact, he says that he IS Krishna. There are many instances of his nonsensical comments about Krishna that are too numerous to state here, but I will give you one:

 

SB's excuse for homosexual behaviour with the students of his college is that he is Krishna and his sexual victims are re-incarnated Gopis.

 

Did your blood boil just now? I certainly hope so.

 

 

Where and what arguments have been applied to me? You said you were just doing as Prabhupada did. I said don't do what he does (well, not EVERYTHING) because he's infinately greater than you.

 

 

Well, all I know is that Srila Prabhupada did encourage us to criticise/expose false teachers. I am trying my best to follow his instruction.

 

 

Absolutely. Just think how far you would get in your spiritual life if you spent all that time reading, studying, listening and talking about the Krsna's Glory instead of spending hours and hours convincing others about the faults of SSB.

 

 

Well, unlike you, I cannot sit back and watch a homosexual paedophile masquerade as "God" while sexually abusing anyone he can get. After all, I was in the same situation as them, being an ex-devotee, thus I consider it my moral duty to warn people and also help his victims. We have also made considerable progress in exposing this guy and there is certainly more to come.

 

And thanks for your concern, I truly appreciate it. I do my best to chant my rounds, attend the temple, eat prasada and read books, etc. As far as I can see, my spiritual life is not suffering due to my involvement with the SB affair. As a matter of fact, my personal role in the SB affair is of a minimum even though I am confidentially apprised of any major international developments. My involvement with ISKCON (mental, physical, emotional, etc) is far more than with SB.

 

Prabhupada was qualified to do this. Fine. But again, who gave you this moral duty?

 

 

I have already stated that in my last post; I have a moral duty to inform people of false teachers. Srila Prabhupada himself stated that we should do this. I have also been requested to do so by fellow ex-devotees due to my position in the SB Organisation when I was his devotee, as I apparently have much to contribute.

 

 

Just because you are a disgruntled (or whatever) ex-devotee of SSB, that doesn't give you the right to destroy other peoples faith etc. by spreading all that stuff - even if it's true. Suddenly I feel you've become the USA of this forum.

 

 

What is the use of having "faith" in a false teacher? Can you imagine the hurt and the anguish that will erupt when SB finally goes down, just like I myself suffered so much hurt and anguish?

 

As a matter of fact, I think I was one of the lucky ones. I can see now that Krishna had a plan by slowly easing me out of there by introducing me to Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy, so that the transition was made easily with a minimum of fuss and anguish. Others have not been so lucky, tragically enough. Some have been screwed up for life, others are in mental hospitals, and some have even lost their faith in God as a result of their traumatic experiences with SB.

 

Sorry, but we are an international community of ex-devotees who have united to form a movement against SB. Certain elements of ISKCON are also willing to helps us, and I myself have written an online paper that exposes one of SB's major declarations. I also intend to publish more (online?) papers that will surely expose more of his fallacious declarations/teachings from the Gaudiya Vaishnava viewpoint? Apart from that, all the major law enforcement agencies of the world, viz., FBI, CIA, German Police force, Surete, Interpol, Scotland Yard, etc, have been apprised of the SB situation and they are helping us as well as conducting their own investigations. In fact, just a couple of days ago we received an email that suggested we may be on the receiving end of legal action. We are looking forward to this as this will be our greatest opportunity to expose SB in recognised courts of law.

 

What does all this have to do with Vaishnavism? Well, before you start going on about my supposed "vaishnava aparadha," you should consider what SB says about Krishna. In fact, he says that he IS Krishna. There are many instances of his nonsensical comments about Krishna that are too numerous to state here, but I will give you one:

 

SB's excuse for homosexual behaviour with the students of his college is that he is Krishna and his sexual victims are re-incarnated Gopis.

 

Did your blood boil just now? I certainly hope so.

 

 

Where and what arguments have been applied to me? You said you were just doing as Prabhupada did. I said don't do what he does (well, not EVERYTHING) because he's infinately greater than you.

 

 

Well, all I know is that Srila Prabhupada did encourage us to criticise/expose false teachers. I am trying my best to follow his instruction.

 

 

Absolutely. Just think how far you would get in your spiritual life if you spent all that time reading, studying, listening and talking about the Krsna's Glory instead of spending hours and hours convincing others about the faults of SSB.

 

 

Well, unlike you, I cannot sit back and watch a homosexual paedophile masquerade as "God" while sexually abusing anyone he can get. After all, I was in the same situation as them, being an ex-devotee, thus I consider it my moral duty to warn people and also help his victims. We have also made considerable progress in exposing this guy and there is certainly more to come.

 

And thanks for your concern, I truly appreciate it. I do my best to chant my rounds, attend the temple, eat prasada and read books, etc. As far as I can see, my spiritual life is not suffering due to my involvement with the SB affair. As a matter of fact, my personal role in the SB affair is of a minimum even though I am confidentially apprised of any major international developments. My involvement with ISKCON (mental, physical, emotional, etc) is far more than with SB.

I pray that I may never leave the shelter of my two siksa-gurus, Srila Prabhupada and Srila Gour Govinda Swami.

 

I pray that their words may enter my heart and dispel the darkness of ignorance.

 

I hope one day I may be intelligent enough to understand their instructions and follow them perfectly.

I pray that I may never leave the shelter of my two siksa-gurus, Srila Prabhupada and Srila Gour Govinda Swami.

 

I pray that their words may enter my heart and dispel the darkness of ignorance.

 

I hope one day I may be intelligent enough to understand their instructions and follow them perfectly.

 

i still disagree. Whether he is a paedophile or not, it is not for you to expose him thus - leave that to Krsna. Unless Krsna Himself told you to do so?

 

 

Sorry, but it is my moral duty to expose false teachers. Srila Prabhupada himself said to do this. I was also asked to contribute my efforts by other ex-devotees. I have already written one paper that is online, and have been asked to write more.

 

 

And don't even try to compare yourself with Srila Prabhupada. He was an elevated soul the likes of which are unequalled. If he decides to condemn someone, so be it. Follow his teaching. BUT Great people can do things that us ordinary folk strictly cannot - don't try to imitate Prabhupada.

 

 

I fail to see where I tried to compare myself with Srila Prabhupada? I simply applied your own arguments to yourself; If I criticise SSB, that is Vaishnava-aparadha (despite the fact that ssb is NOT a Vaishnava) but if Srila Prabhupada does criticises SSB then it is considered "bad" to follow in his footsteps?

 

i still disagree. Whether he is a paedophile or not, it is not for you to expose him thus - leave that to Krsna. Unless Krsna Himself told you to do so?

 

 

Sorry, but it is my moral duty to expose false teachers. Srila Prabhupada himself said to do this. I was also asked to contribute my efforts by other ex-devotees. I have already written one paper that is online, and have been asked to write more.

 

 

And don't even try to compare yourself with Srila Prabhupada. He was an elevated soul the likes of which are unequalled. If he decides to condemn someone, so be it. Follow his teaching. BUT Great people can do things that us ordinary folk strictly cannot - don't try to imitate Prabhupada.

 

 

I fail to see where I tried to compare myself with Srila Prabhupada? I simply applied your own arguments to yourself; If I criticise SSB, that is Vaishnava-aparadha (despite the fact that ssb is NOT a Vaishnava) but if Srila Prabhupada does criticises SSB then it is considered "bad" to follow in his footsteps?

 

Babrhu: I respectfully submit the possibility that this may be a misreading of what he wrote. He doesn't seem to me to be saying we should be happy that they're gay, but that we accept their attempts to approach the supreme goal. I know many wonderful devotees who have struggled (or are still struggling) to give up counterproductive behavior.

 

 

OK, this was one of those posts where I wrote in haste that day.

 

My comments were mainly in response to past posts about similar bad habits that Srila Prabhupada disapproved of.

 

I mean, I actually got a realisation that day!

 

For all my years and silent contemplation about how to deal with the issue of homosexuality from a spiritual viewpoint, and how to reconcile it with the explosion of sexual perversions that we see all around us today, I was in a bit of a quandary.

It is true that homosexuality was not quite as public then as it is now, performed mostly behind closed doors for fear of public humiliation, etc. Now that homosexuality has come to the fore and is even being accepted as a bona fide sexual orientation, much to the dismay of the ultra-orthodox crowd, how do we deal with this issue?

Then it is also true that Srila Prabhupada made some comments, though not as much as he criticised illicit sex, meat eating, gambling, etc., as was pointed out by some previous posters. Then we know that he criticised homosexuality too. What more, we find that we even have homosexual devotees in our ranks! What to do?

 

Well, this is the issue. Homosexuality may very be a bad habit and a perversion, and that people who indulge in it are to be condemned from a spiritual viewpoint, this still does not exclude them from receiving Mahaprabhu's mercy, since Mahaprabhu's mercy is also available to all those ex-meat eaters, ex-womanisers, etc., who received it through the benevolent sidelong glance of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Babhru: Feel free to be sick as you like, but my point was not about the bare facts but your characterization of Maharaja's preaching as certainly a deviation. It's possible to discuss the issue without denigrating the person. And since the definition of "sadhu" we get from Srila Prabhupada is that soul entirely dedicated to preaching the glories of the holy name, we should be careful of how we speak about such souls. I'm sorry you find it too convenient that "nind" actually includes any ridicule or denigration, but that's the way it is

 

 

I don't see how I was denigrating Tripurari Swami. I have certainly been accused of doing so, but I think I have clearly stated that any issue that I have is with the things he is reported to be preaching. If I happen to see something that seems to be deviated from Srila Prabhupada's viewpoint, or indeed the viewpoint of the past Acharyas, I see no harm in saying so directly.

 

For all the guff, we must speak clearly.

 

 

B: That depends largely on their motives and the deviations they pointed out. Don't be too facile, either, with your dismissal of Raghunath Bhatta Goswami's example. That is our ideal. Of course we all fall short of it, but we are meantto aspire to that state of consciousness (it's called Krishna consciousness).

 

 

OK, there is no need to get so patronising ..

 

Plus, why should anyone who points out Kirtanananda's deviations be accused/thought of as having an ulterior motive? Kirtanananda deviated, that's a fact. Where is the 'nind' since he is no longer a Vaishnava in good standing?

 

 

V: Not that I am comparing Tripurari Swami (TS) to Kirtanananda. . . .

 

B: Yes, you are, at least implicitly. Otherwise, what's the point of bringing Kirtananada up?

 

 

I used Kirtanananda as an example because he is a good example of a devotee who has publicly deviated. Since he is no longer a Vaishnava in good standing, why should there be any 'nind' in pointing these out?

 

Then I stated that I am not necessarily comparing K to TS because I have nothing against TS as a person. It is with his teachings that I have an issue. Why should there be any 'nind' in pointing these out if anyone observes a marked forking from Srila Prabhupada's teachings?

 

 

My rea point, though, is that if we're actually thoughtful, we should be able to find ways to discuss these contentious points without offending any vaishnavas. Otherwise, it may be nothing more than gossip (which Mahaprabhu Himself warned Raghunath Das against).

 

 

OK well, I notice that the "female sannyasa" issue is being spoken about almost everywhere I know on the Net, and the TS ashram hasn't issued any denial, so I wouldn't think that this was a piece of salacious gossip.

 

 

V: Not that I am comparing you to Hitler or Amin, Stonehearted. . . .

 

B: Sure you are, but it's not a big deal.

 

 

I wasn't, but if you got offended by my hasty speech then I apologise. I wrote that poste in a bit of haste as I had things to do so I didn't have time to word my responses as carefully as I normally do.

 

when this yuga is over,then kalki comes, and it starts all over again, this is not because kalki needs to do something,it's just the process playing itself out.,

 

 

Right. And then this begs the next question; WHY should different philosophies/lifestyles exist or are created by God for the supposed karmic neccesities of the souls?

 

For what purpose?

 

And how can God allow people to "suffer" under the weight of Mayavada?

 

Etc, etc, etc,....

 

And the answer is that it is intentional. After all, the Padma Purana explicitly states so, that Shiva was sent to preach a "deviated" philosophy, pracanna-bauddham, to confuse the population.

 

Question is; why?

 

What do you have if you dress a pedophile up as an avatar or sannyasin? A pedophile. Actually they are more dangerous, like the proverbial snake with a jeweled hood.

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

Thank you Theist! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

And the proverbial jewel on SSB's snakelike head was probably stolen from a jewellery store in Bangalore! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

What do you have if you dress a pedophile up as an avatar or sannyasin? A pedophile. Actually they are more dangerous, like the proverbial snake with a jeweled hood.

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

Thank you Theist! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

And the proverbial jewel on SSB's snakelike head was probably stolen from a jewellery store in Bangalore! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thank you very much for this information.

 

According to the info found on that thread, Yamadutas are actually ghostly people who do Yamaraja-seva to get out of their position.

 

"Those who have passed several years in the dreadful hell and have no descendants (to offer gifts) in their favor become messengers of Yama." (Garuda Purana 2.18.34)

 

This doesn't mean that Yamadutas are evil in nature or soul, it is simply that they fell into a ghostly position and by their Yamaraja-seva (Yamaraja is a Vaishnava) they might evolve.

 

Thank you again.

I happen to have been a devotee of this very same Sathya Sai Baba for over 10 years. This should qualify me to make authoritative statements about SSB.

 

I was brainwashed by his declarations of avatarhood and worshipped him as God.

 

I have since found that he is guilty of murders, homosexual paedophilia, financial scandals, organ theft, etc etc. You name it, he's done it.

 

I am now directly involved in the international effort of ex-devotees to publicise this case. Our most recent success as of three days ago was getting the University of Adelaide to cancell the Sai National Conference that was planned to be held there in April 2003. Very soon, his name will be dirt in Australia, we hope. How practical is your suggestion, that we should not talk this way about anyone, viz., telling people the facts?

 

I find it an insult to avatars in general that SSB was included in the list of "updated avatars" by Anveshan.

 

Vaishnava aparadha does not even come into the issue. Srila Prabhupada also condemned SSB in the 1970s, I suppose by your standards he is also guilty of Vaishnava-aparadha...

 

If you are seriously suggesting that I should regard him as being born as a Vaishnava, then perhaps I should leave Vaishnavism.

 

I want no contact whatsoever with that murderous paedophile.

I happen to have been a devotee of this very same Sathya Sai Baba for over 10 years. This should qualify me to make authoritative statements about SSB.

 

I was brainwashed by his declarations of avatarhood and worshipped him as God.

 

I have since found that he is guilty of murders, homosexual paedophilia, financial scandals, organ theft, etc etc. You name it, he's done it.

 

I am now directly involved in the international effort of ex-devotees to publicise this case. Our most recent success as of three days ago was getting the University of Adelaide to cancell the Sai National Conference that was planned to be held there in April 2003. Very soon, his name will be dirt in Australia, we hope. How practical is your suggestion, that we should not talk this way about anyone, viz., telling people the facts?

 

I find it an insult to avatars in general that SSB was included in the list of "updated avatars" by Anveshan.

 

Vaishnava aparadha does not even come into the issue. Srila Prabhupada also condemned SSB in the 1970s, I suppose by your standards he is also guilty of Vaishnava-aparadha...

 

If you are seriously suggesting that I should regard him as being born as a Vaishnava, then perhaps I should leave Vaishnavism.

 

I want no contact whatsoever with that murderous paedophile.

 

"...my opinion regarding gay and lesbian devotees is that they should be honored in terms of their devotion and spiritual progress. They should cultivate spiritual life from either a celibate status, or in something analogous to a heterosexual monogomous situation. Gay and lesbian people have always been a part of society from Vedic times to our post-modern times. They should be accepted for what they are in terms of their sexual orientation and encouraged like everyone else to pursue spiritual life."

 

Now, I imagine that many people will take this quote in many different ways and think of it's application differently.

 

 

I shall certainly offer my interpretation.

 

Earlier, we noted how Stonehearted made the following comment: "Even if we listed all the quotations in VedaBase, what would that establish? Perhaps a good look at Srila Prabhupada's opinion of homosexual behavior. That's different, I think, from being gay."

 

Well, this only shows the obvious: that Srila Prabhupada's statements as listen in VedaBase shows direct statements that revolve around a disapproval of homosexual behaviour. I do not have a copy of VedaBase, but I have read extracts of Srila Prabhupada's talks that contain firm and unswerving disaproval of homosexual behaviour. I cna only assume that VedaBase will contain more of the same.

 

As such, we can see that the above quote from TS is favourable to homosexuals, "They should be accepted for what they are in terms of their sexual orientation and encouraged like everyone else to pursue spiritual life."

 

While I have no problem with homosexuals pursuing spiritual life, just like all us ex-drunkards meat-eaters and womanisers etc were/are pursuing, I do have a problem with TS's statement saying that the "sexual orientation" should be accepted.

With the intention of getting this discussion back on topic (yet again), let us note this:

 

 

I confess to a certain level of frustration concerning the original question I asked has not been answered in a clear a forthright manner.

 

"What does Tripurari actually teach on gay unions and other topics?"

 

 

Poor Theist, and then I note that no one has a specific answer as yet. Theist has been directed many times to personally ask Tripurari Swami for his comments on the matter, and he has said that he is not that interested (or something of the like).

 

Yet the question remains largely unanswered.

 

Well, the correct answer can only be: Tripurari Swami has not said very much on record.

Please excuse my late reply.

 

 

I would amend that to say that the thread is about the CONTENTION that Tripurari Maharaja has deviated. I wonder what could possibly be gained by such sadhu-ninda. According to the understanding of the ten offenses recited (apparently rather mechanically) in ISKCON centers every morning, a sadhu is someone dedicated to propagating the glories of chanting the holy name. According to my memory of Monier-Williams, "nind" indicates not just blasphemy, but any criticism or ridicule. There's no doubt a very good reason this is the first offense we are enjoined to avoid if our chanting is to bear fruit any time soon. Raghunath Bhatta Gosvami refused to hear any criticism of vaishnavas, even if it appeared justified. He preferred instead to hear what they had done to serve Krishna.

 

 

I must say that I really am sick of this way of thinking, that even the bare facts of the situation is considered to be "sadhu-ninda," or other names. Also, I find it extremely convenient that this expands even to "criticism or ridicule." I suppose that, in practical terms, those devotees who protested to, say, Kirtanananda's deviations before he publicly fell down are guilty of sadhu-ninda? Also, the anecdote about Raghunath das Goswami is very nice, but I am not at his highly exalted lev el, so I am perfectly entitled at this point to see things in my deluded vision and interpet them with my fault-finding mentality.

 

Not that I am comparing Tripurari Swami (TS) to Kirtanananda, but really, there are specific points of contention that show that he preaches differently from the Gurus on certain specific points. This is undeniable.

 

 

It's one thing to discuss principles; it's another to launch a crusade against a preacher who has inspired many devotees, old and new, including many ISKCON stalwarts. I can't say it strongly enough: Beware. (And I'll tell you frankly that I'd write the same sermon if you were proposing an examination of the faults of Narayan Maharaja, Sivarama Swami, Narasingha Maharaja, Bhaktitirtha Swami, Hridayananda Maharaj, Atma-tattva prabhu, or anyone else. Beware.)

 

 

Ooooooooh! Beware of the big black monstah!

 

Joking aside, the rest of your piece about the failures of ISKCON possibly traced to Vaishnava-aparadha is a good analysis and valuable. However, it is besides the point that I was making. First of all, no one has launched a crusade against Tripurari Swami. One might like to note that he himself is the source of his views on female sannyasa, etc, therefore he offers it for due appraisal and/or criticism.

 

One cannot seriously believe that preaching a completely revolutionary idea will not draw any comments, good or bad? I'm sure that Hitler, Amin et al., also had their yes-men with th specific object of minimising any opposition.

 

Not that I am comparing you to Hitler or Amin, Stonehearted, but I'm sorry but I think this is the very crux of the issue and it has to be seriously thought out, and quite frankly I am not at all impressed about these pieces about "sadhu-ninda" etc.

I see that Stonehearted has been unfairly criticised (though constructively) about his seeming silencing of Theist with claims that he is uninitiated, etc. I must say that I also feel more or less the same way, that I am being frightened off this TS issue with tales of vaishnava-aparadha and the big black elephant.

 

I will never accept that some souls were made inherently evil and destined to reside in an eternal hell. Never. I don't care who says it.

 

 

Speaking of which, I recall seeing a picture of the dying Ajamila when I was very young, and the demons were taking his soul. I was mighty scared by this picture, their twisted contorted faces were literally a work of art (perversely).

 

And now that I am more mature enough to understand the writings, they were servants of Yamaraja after all.

 

I am not sure if these YAmadutas can be classified as "devils" or so, even though they 'devilishyly' argued with the Visnudutas, but anyway, what souls are these?

 

Are these souls inherently evil or what? How exactly does one submit to the "service of Sri Yamaraja"?

Excuse my late entrance into this topic, but this very question bugged me for a while a time back.

 

I asked close friends both from the Gaudiya and Madhva school, and they clarified that there is NO reference to Lord Rama's supposed meat-eating in the original Valmiki Ramamayan.

 

They even provided a totally different translation for 'mamsa,' one which is in perfect accordance with different interpretations. Suffice to say, mamsa could also mean certain vegetables and tubers, and possibly onions.

 

I am recalling all this from memory, I will have a look in my mailbox and see if I have the original mail. But suffice to say, these Madhva scholars clarified my doubt and showed how Rama never ate meat nor can he be accused of doing so.

 

Any genuine seekr should add the following avataras as an addendum:

Shri. Shri Satya Sai Baba Puttappatheeswar

 

 

This SSB whom you mention is a homosexual child-molesting paedophile. How you can call him an avatar is totally beyond me.

 

Any genuine seekr should add the following avataras as an addendum:

Shri. Shri Satya Sai Baba Puttappatheeswar

 

 

This SSB whom you mention is a homosexual child-molesting paedophile. How you can call him an avatar is totally beyond me.