AncientMariner

If you are seeking spiritual Guidance on this message board that is mostly about Krishna it would be advisable for you to read Vedic literature in my opinion. It's all about Krishna and his various aspects etc. There are all sorts of standard endless debates that never end like the vaisnavas vs. advaitians etc. but Krishna is a fascinating person so I would recommend you educate yourself about Krishna if you are interested in seeking guidance from Hindus. If you are just looking for some miracle worker magicman guru to answer your questions then I would go to Las Vegas, just kidding. Most likely a real guru and spiritual adviser is gonna educate you about how the foolish people of the Kali-yuga are often fooled by phoney gurus and that there are phony incarnations of God on almost every street corner in the Kali-yuga.

According to the Vedic literature my understanding is that God is among other things the supersoul directing the wanderings of all living entities. I think Prabhupada used to say something like God is the ocean and we are drops of the water in the ocean. So we as individual jivas have some of the properties of God but we can never become the whole ocean like God is so God is always the greatest but even under that paradigm even God can make his devotee greater than Himself if he wants.

Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam seem to be pretty good books to read so you might start there. Definetly presents a unique outlook on the universe and why we are here etc. Basically the main thing I got from those books is the we are not these bodies and that we are minute particles under the control of God. The stories about Krishna and his devotees and their pastimes are pretty entertaining for the most part and are pleasant things to contemplate.

Been reading about this on conspiracy sites. They say it is all part of eugenics programs and instituting world government and big brother technocracy.

Government Readies Youth Corps To Take On Vets Text size<LI class=rightmag> Paul Joseph Watson & Kurt Nimmo Prison Planet.com Friday, May 15, 2009 “Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor,” begins a shocking New York Times article reporting on how the Boy Scouts are being trained to take on domestic terrorists, which apparently would include war veterans and American citizens if the Homeland Security definition of a terrorist is to be applied. Homeland Security and the FBI are behind the effort to indoctrinate and train the Boy Scouts to become tomorrow’s Gestapo. “Our end goal is to create more agents,” April McKee, a senior Border Patrol agent, told the Times. “Before it was more about the basics,” said Johnny Longoria, a Border Patrol agent. “But now our emphasis is on terrorism, illegal entry, drugs and human smuggling.” Is this the literal creation of Hitler-Jugend style youth brigades designed to act as the front line for eventual programs of mass internment and gun confiscation in the advent of a national emergency? In Nazi Germany, the Hitler Youth succeeded the Boy Scout movement. Hitler Youth training was militarized in comparison to the Boy Scout network, which was largely based around education. Boys aged fourteen and upwards, as well as a separate branch aged 10-14, were trained at preparatory schools to become future Nazi leaders. At its height in 1940, and after it had become mandatory to join, the Hitler Youth boasted no less than 8 million members. Apparently in a shift away from the traditional Boy Scouts activities of sports, camping, survival skills and team leadership, the government is now training children “to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence” under the banner of the Explorers program, with the aid of military-style exercises aimed at subduing insurgents. In one scenario, boys are trained how to conduct drug raids and take out an “obstreperous lookout”. “Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.” In other situations, Boy Scouts are trained to disarm “suspected terrorists” and subdue them, including Iraq war veterans. Scouts are trained to identify the enemy. In a competition in Arizona, one role-player wore traditional Arab dress. “If we’re looking at 9/11 and what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like,” said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriff’s deputy in Imperial County, California, “then maybe your role-player would look like that. I don’t know, would you call that politically incorrect?” Politically correct or not, Homeland Security and the FBI realize Arabs are not the enemy — “rightwing extremists” are. Last month, Infowars reported on a document produced by the Department of Homeland Security’s National Infrastructure Coordinating Center identifying advocates of the Second Amendment, veterans, pro-life activists, and militia members as dangerous terrorists. A subsequent DHS document, entitled “Domestic Extremism Lexicon,” pinpointed “antigovernment” types “rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority” as possible terrorists. “Islamic groups are specifically excluded from this document,” writes for the Daily Beast. The new Gestapo Boy Scouts program will train the new Hitler Youth — or Obama youth — for the challenges of a totalitarian globalist future. As the planned implosion of the economy unfolds and unemployment increases, the federal government is picking up the slack. “In the wake of the huge stimulus package to jumpstart the economy, plenty of new positions are being created by 2010. The agencies that will benefit include the Defense, Commerce, Homeland Security and Veterans Affairs departments,” writes for Fierce Government. Gestapo Scouts will be required to combat “rightwing extremists” who will refuse to turn in their firearms after the next false flag terror attack or engineered pandemic. SWAT Scouts will be called to deal with those who refuse to participate in mandatory vaccinations. Police state Scouts will be the vanguard for Obama’s million-man Civilian National Security Corps. “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military. It’s up to the New York Times, as the premier “liberal” propaganda outfit, to sell the militarization of the Boy Scouts to the American people, using the standard bugaboos of Arab terrorists, drug cartel thugs, and marijuana cultivators as the example of why all of this is necessary. In the real world, however, government is not primarily concerned with drug dealers — after all, the government and Wall Street run most of the drugs — they are worried about growing opposition to the destruction of the Constitution and the imposition of world government by a cabal of international bankers and their corporate fascist partners in crime.

Part of the problem is the public perception of the Hare Krishnas is that their gurus are child molestors and conmen, the Hare Krishnas don't even have as much credibility with the public as the Catholic Church. Plus the Hare Krishnas are also so involved in infighting similar to other religions that the Hare Krishna Movement doesn't come off as being transcendental as advertised. In America I wouldn't even be surprised that if you went around telling everyone to chant Hare Krishna that they would arrest you and charge you with terrorism. I only chant and read Vedic literature for my own peace of mind and do not try to force it on anyone. Maybe someday another acarya will appear that has come credibility with the public as Prabhupada seemed to have briefly in the 60's but I don't know if that would even work because the public is so mentally ill from television etc. that I don't know what you could do. It would take a massive paradigm shift to wake people up. I am not convinced your strategy would work at this point in time but I wish you the best with it and one can always hope.

That is how I see it. It is like taxation upon taxation upon taxation. The American taxpayer have already payed for all this stuff but they get scammed by the bankers and politicians who sell out America with basically counterfiet money and then the international banking corporate interests will take over and try to charge taxes on this stuff all over again and keep all the generations born in the USA as indentured servants and military dupes for decades to come.

Probably not in the long run, it will crumble like all fascism does eventually but I guess the question is how much damage are these people going to do on the way out and will they be able to create a Hitler youth type of movement that buys into their idealogy. They are all getting old and have told a lifetime of lies to get where they are at so yes eventually I think the truth will win and everything will be revealed and maybe the people will wake up that they have been in a spell by the television etc. This seems to be happening on some level presently as it doesn't seem people are buying into the swine flu scare. Nothing scares these people more than people waking up so either they are going to try and change the color of their spots and act like they have been our friends all along or they are gonna try to manufacture some other crisis to hide the real news that the economy has been looted by the bankers and the politicians and the banks are insolvent. We can always hope that once this karma etc. has run its course that there will be left standing a more enlightened, intelligent group of humans on the Earth but who knows for sure what is going to happen.

Yes I heard Dr. Horowitz on Alex Jones radio show and was very impressed with him, he seems like a man of good conscience and integrity. Here is something that makes me want to increase my chanting of Hare Krsna and eventually get out of the material world once and for all. John Galt Says: <SMALL class=commentmetadata>May 2nd, 2009 at 7:00 pm</SMALL> Major Karma, The sooner blood suckers like you leave the better please let me know if there is any motivation I can provide you with to speed the process. To everyone else; Believe me folks its not credit cards from China but Congress that has be spending money from the public purse for such things as foreign aid and food and drug and health programs overseas to buy American favor in those countries that has ruined us. They have set an example of poor fiscal responsibility. Yes American followed suit. But Congress did not have the authority to spend our money and we stupid people let them. You are the co signer to the note Congress incurred in your name for the foreign debt. Everything you own even you is collateral to that debt, even the dirt you stand on. And now we have. This smoke screen hoax is to frighten the masses into thinking there is a pandemic or the possibility of one and surrendering more of their rights. This is the false flag. If it goes to level 6. Like the right to travel.>They will establish check points to see if you have had your vaccination if not you must go home, or get the shot. If you havent had it you wouldnt want to go to work and infect your workmates and friends would yoooooou. Economic restrictions> They dont want you to panic and run to the store and clean out the shelves. So they will limit the amount of cash you can withdraw. They will designate days you may shop and buy fuel. They will limit the amount of food you can buy in dollar value at the store. They will ration fuel and restrict your travel so you dont spread the disease. They will close public places. This IS martial law. In the mean time Obammy is continuing to campaign to quell the panic and sooth the masses so everybody thinks its alright. But if the lid comes off the box and the truth be known. If people panic and runamuck then the velvet gloves will come off and the iron gloves go on. All of this is to distract the attention from the final days of the shill game when the bankers led by the Bush team of thieves completes it final phase of looting. Bush I, Bush II, Cheney, Clinton(s), Gore, Paulson, Kash’n'Kari, Geithner, Greenspan, Bernanke, Summers, and Obamasan and Biden are making travel arraignments to flee the country. While our creditors are making arraignments to find the monies the above have looted which was supposed to pay our creditors off. Which is why Congress doesnt know where the money went. The creditors wont be paid before the banker boys flee with the loot. The notes will be repudiated. The stolen money may have been enough to satisfy the creditors. But it would also be enough to keep our children as debtors to foreign powers for generations. Obama will be the fall guy but he has his own accounts. The economy will go into total collapse and the swhtf. The conductors of the arbitrage are skimming the (fallout) off the top and sending it to off shore accounts. Sir Hillary Clinton made a deal with the Chinese to surrender sovereign territory of the united States as payment for the debit not covered by the treasury and gold transactions (which have not been consummated). It has not been consummated because as stated above the Bush boy’s stole the money and Obama is refusing to pay. The UN has already got troops on American soil to enforce international laws and treaty’s. The US military has/will refuse to allow surrender of American soil as payment for a debit created by fraud by the Federal Reserve and will move to arrest the Fed Reserve Board. The IMF and world bank with BIS will place their security forces to stop them. I wont be necessary because DC is a legislative dictatorship under exclusive power of Congress and they will not allow troops on the streets unless it is to protect them. Congress is complicit and was promised protection. But DC and other hardened sites are the only place they can go to be safe from those they were promised protection from. Us, because of the collapse. Bush and company dont want satisfaction for the creditors they want a war. Here. On American soil. They may have it. Think about it.

Yes everyone get in line and get your Baxter flu vaccine shot now that the swine flu is a worldwide pandemic. The government is your friend, now back to American Idol.

Basically etc. includes anyone who doesn't believe the universe is run by a supreme being. Just my view of the universe. Who knows for sure what the hell is going on but I have had personal experiences that lead me to believe Krishna is real but you are entitled to your own personal view of things I don't begrudge you that. Yes in the Kali-yuga my understanding is that basically the whole human population are basically just animals incarnated in the human form. A royal edition of the animals as Prabhupada said. I guess Krishna sends down his avatars to try and talk some sense into these animals and turn them toward the spiritual world. Prabhupada always made fun of the material scientists because although they can play with the material energy and throw up a satellite into outerspace or something their power is insignificant to Krishna and they are great fools if they become puffed up by thier insignificant power.

Can't proove but even in the material world I think Krsna is pretty much playing with his devotees but the atheists, material scientists etc. are pretty much just playing with themselves.

Sometimes I think Krsna intentionally puts us through these things so we can learn about the seperation that he feels from his divine love. I have been through where the love of my life left me and I have been forced to leave someone that I loved because the path she was on would have been degrading for me to follow along. It takes a lot of pain and introspection but there are tremendous lessons to learn in these experiences in my opinion.

News Canada Baxter: Product contained live bird flu virus By Helen Branswell, THE CANADIAN PRESS Last Updated: 27th February 2009, 3:26pm The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses. And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria. “At this juncture we are confident in saying that public health and occupational risk is minimal at present,” medical officer Roberta Andraghetti said from Copenhagen, Denmark. “But what remains unanswered are the circumstances surrounding the incident in the Baxter facility in Orth-Donau.” The contaminated product, a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses and unlabelled H5N1 viruses, was supplied to an Austrian research company. The Austrian firm, Avir Green Hills Biotechnology, then sent portions of it to sub-contractors in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany. The contamination incident, which is being investigated by the four European countries, came to light when the subcontractor in the Czech Republic inoculated ferrets with the product and they died. Ferrets shouldn’t die from exposure to human H3N2 flu viruses. Public health authorities concerned about what has been described as a “serious error” on Baxter’s part have assumed the death of the ferrets meant the H5N1 virus in the product was live. But the company, Baxter International Inc., has been parsimonious about the amount of information it has released about the event. On Friday, the company’s director of global bioscience communications confirmed what scientists have suspected. “It was live,” Christopher Bona said in an email. The contaminated product, which Baxter calls “experimental virus material,” was made at the Orth-Donau research facility. Baxter makes its flu vaccine — including a human H5N1 vaccine for which a licence is expected shortly — at a facility in the Czech Republic. People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility. That is a dangerous practice that should not be allowed to happen, a number of experts insisted. Accidental release of a mixture of live H5N1 and H3N2 viruses could have resulted in dire consequences. While H5N1 doesn’t easily infect people, H3N2 viruses do. If someone exposed to a mixture of the two had been simultaneously infected with both strains, he or she could have served as an incubator for a hybrid virus able to transmit easily to and among people. That mixing process, called reassortment, is one of two ways pandemic viruses are created. There is no suggestion that happened because of this accident, however. “We have no evidence of any reassortment, that any reassortment may have occurred,” said Andraghetti. “And we have no evidence of any increased transmissibility of the viruses that were involved in the experiment with the ferrets in the Czech Republic.” Baxter hasn’t shed much light — at least not publicly — on how the accident happened. Earlier this week Bona called the mistake the result of a combination of “just the process itself, (and) technical and human error in this procedure.” He said he couldn’t reveal more information because it would give away proprietary information about Baxter’s production process. Andraghetti said Friday the four investigating governments are co-operating closely with the WHO and the European Centre for Disease Control in Stockholm, Sweden. “We are in very close contact with Austrian authorities to understand what the circumstances of the incident in their laboratory were,” she said. “And the reason for us wishing to know what has happened is to prevent similar events in the future and to share lessons that can be learned from this event with others to prevent similar events. ... This is very important.”

I don't think the airplane stunt was an accident, the elite are rubbing it in our face. Could be wrong but I think they are going to try to use this bird flu thing to lockdown America and try to force people to take vaccinations that will make things worse. The hardcore eugenics are just starting in my opinion and as usual they package the eugenics as a solution to a problem. Ultimately they are hoping to turn America into an indentured servitude military police state and people will be microchipped and given a weekly allowance of credits that they must use or lose. Noone will be allowed to own property and everyone will be assigned where to live and what tasks to perform from the government. That is for the people that they let live. The rest of the surplus people will be eliminated through eugenics.

Don't know if it is true or not but I heard that she isn't even English but is German or that her family is a German family or something like that.

We are all her indentured servants.

I am usually not smart enough to figure out your posts but I think I get the point of this one.

What can I tell you my friend. Just another case of the Cheaters and the Cheated. Standard operating procedure for the Kali-yuga. Why I ever expect anything different is amazing but I keep hoping for some reason.

The Hare Krishnas are at war with each other over basically philosophical differences that go on and on for years. See the same differences in Islam, Christianity etc. I don't know if these differences are transcendental or not but I do know it is depressing when even the spiritual platform is constant war. Even my Christian friends I have to keep my mouth shut around them about lots of things, they think Israel should just kill and burn off all the Muslims and things like that. Truly depressing when I fundamentally agree with most things about Christianity but choose to keep my mouth shut most of the time because the same age old tired deadhorse beaten arguments and philosophical differences surface over and over and over...

Nobody is wondering. They are watching American Idol. Everything is great!

Call me crazy and I could be and I am fully aware how tricky the mind is and knowledge is but my view has completely changed on "The War on Terrorism". Originally I was all for Bush going after the terrorists even though I never did quite understand why they were going for Iraq. My view now is that "The War on Terrorism" is a government created construct to justify a military occupation of Iraq and to help bankrupt America and create the crisis we are currently in. There very well may be a group of radical Muslims that really hate us enough to do damage but the govenment has exploited that in my opinion. I was reading the other day that all the American economy consists of is consumption and the military and that is how they bankrupted us. I have read that Obama's military budget is bigger than Bush's so I don't get how you say he is disengaging from Iraq in a responsible way. I also don't get how you think he is leading an attack on unbridled capitalism when he is for bailing out corporate America with these bank bailouts instead of being for putting the banks through bankruptcy and wiping out the derivatives created by the deregulation of the banking system, only then could America start fresh but these politicians will not allow that to happen because if honest people got into the banking industry they would uncover how far up the chain this whole crisis, manipulation and corruption goes. If he was really out for the working people that is what he would be doing and then create massive infrastructure stimulus plans and issue that money interest free from the government. I am sorry to say but your buddy Obama is just another corporate banking shill looking out for the status quo but he does talk a good game and does a good job reading from a teleprompter. Hope is a powerful drug.

It is gonna be interesting to see how things play out. It is entirely possible that I am a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I have many years of experience with trading stocks and to see how perfectly they have orchestrated this collapse and used it to try and consolidate power is what made me start believing in these conspiracies. Alex Jones still thinks Obama is gonna betray us in a major way. I don't know if that is true or not but I have not seen any evidence that Obama is anything more than a puppet but I could be wrong. Alex Jones thinks the elite are using a black man to officially sell the American people into technocratic indentured servitude run by the banks like Goldman Sachs and they setup this crisis to position Obama to capitilize on the fear and vulnerability of the people. In essence we have been in indentured servitude to the banks for a long time anyway so ultimately all it would be is maintaining the status quo and then transitioning into a more refined highly micromanaged world technocracy, which could end up being good or bad, but they are trying to keep the same people in control that have been in control all along. Gonna be interesting years ahead of us. One thing is clear to me that we are officially at a paradigm shift and this global technocracy is evolving at a fast pace and there is no going back. The question is will the elite really do what it takes to maintain the current population levels of the earth. I have heard some conspiracy theorists that think they will come through for us by releasing incredible new technologies that will help mankind and others who think they will institute eugenics programs and use mandatory socialized medicine to carry out eugenics. I don't get the whole healthcare argument because at least where I live if you are low income you can get super cheap healthcare although I never go to doctors unless absolutely necessary, maybe it is not like that everywhere in the country. When I had horrible depression they put me on prozac and all that crap and that stuff was horrible but I got out of that system and refused their treatments and took some St. Johns Wort and that was all natural and worked really well so I try to go natural whenever possible. I do think technology, science and medicine has done some amazing things when it comes to real severe health problems requiring surgery etc but there are some real dark sides to some of the drugs they come up with in my opinion.

Yeah, I was a Biology major in college for awhile and found it depressing as hell to study science so I just started reading a bunch of religous and philosophy books to combat the incredibly depressing material view of the Universe that science is boxed into. In general I do not put much faith in anything scientists come up with and would even venture to a lot of them are serving the military industrial complex eugenics programs either knowingly or unknowingly. The mystic beauty of Krishna makes material science seem like a dried up turd lieing on the side of the road. I don't begrudge scientists for making a living at thier professions or anything as long as they don't take themselves too seriously but when they start really believing the stuff they are coming up with they can be downright dangerous. My uncle is a medical doctor and he calls his bachelors of science his (B)ull(S)hit degree and he calls his masters of science his (M)ore of the (S)ame degree and he calls his PHD his (P)iled (H)igh (D)eeper degree. He is refreshing because he is part of the standardized death cult priesthood of Medical doctors but has enough sense of humor to laugh at all the crapola involved in the scientific and medical community. Hopefully I don't get knee jerk reactions if I offend anyone who works in or supports the modern scientific and medical communities as I am sure a lot of people in those professions are in the mode of goodness. I personally like to take control of my own health through diet and excersize and stay away from doctors unless there is some extreme emergency so I do feel there is a role for specialist doctors and I do not universally condemn modern science or medicine but I do feel like the big corporations etc. are using modern science and medicine to set up a fascist scientific dictatorship.

What kind of devotee or guru do you think Prabhupada was? I remember reading in his books that he said he met face to face with Krishna at some point in his life so does that make him part of Krishna leela or not?