cbrahma

It seems the whole business is one of culture and language.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

rape1 /reɪp/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[reyp] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.

–noun 1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

3. statutory rape.

4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.

–verb (used with object) 6. to force to have sexual intercourse.

7. to plunder (a place); despoil.

8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.

–verb (used without object) 9. to commit rape.

The archaic definiton (5) seems to be the intended one. Not being a woman of the time of Krsna and Arjuna I cannot speak with authority about their fantasies. The word 'rapture' has the same root I believe.

rap·ture (rāp'chər) Pronunciation Key

<!--BOF_HEAD-->n. <!--EOF_HEAD--><!--BOF_DEF-->

1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
   
2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.
   
3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

<!--EOF_SUBHEAD--><!--BOF_DEF-->To enrapture.

<!--EOF_DEF-->

<!--BOF_DEF-->

[Obsolete French, abduction, carrying off, from <TT>rapt</TT>, carried away, from Old French <TT>rat</TT>, from Latin <TT>raptus</TT>; see rapt.]

<!--EOF_DEF-->

See defiinition 3

The Latin

<TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%" bgColor=#f7dca6>present

rapiō

</TD><TD width="1%"></TD><TD vAlign=top width="20%" bgColor=#f7dca6>infinitive

rapere

</TD><TD width="1%"></TD><TD vAlign=top width="20%" bgColor=#f7dca6>perfect

rapuī

</TD><TD width="1%"></TD><TD vAlign=top width="20%" bgColor=#f7dca6>supine

raptum

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

1. snatch, grab, carry off

It appears that the word over time has taken on more and more violent connotations.

Time again being the culprit.

Kulapavana is trying to say that Srila Prabhupada believed than women love to be brutally assaulted and sexually abused.

Obviously, his opinion of Srila Prabhupada is very low.

Though other religious systems are considered to be the products of time, circumstance and the people amongst whom they were instituted, devotional service to Krsna even when executed by an imperfect practitioner is considered by Prabhupada, in keeping with the Caitanya-caritamrta, to be transcendental:

•  

  When we are on the material platform, there are different types of religions-Hinduism, Christianity, Mohammedanism, Buddhism, and so on. These are instituted for a particular time, a particular country or a particular person. Consequently there are differences. Christian principles are different from Hindu principles, and Hindu principles are different from Mohammedan and Buddhist principles. These may be considered on the material platform, but when we come to the platform of transcendental devotional service, there are no such considerations. The transcendental service of the Lord (sadhana-bhakti) is above these principles. The world is anxious for religious unity, and that common platform can be achieved in transcendental devotional service. This is the verdict of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. When one becomes a Vaisnava, he becomes transcendental to all these limited considerations (CC Madhya 25.121P).

  
  

http://www.iskcon.com/icj/6_2/62jagat.html

Nirvana in Hinduism is moksha. The term does exist in Hinduism, and honestly, I believe that Buddhism and Hinduism aren't very different as far as experience goes. Semantically, they have opposing viewpoints, but in truth, the experiences I believe are the same. Where one may call a feeling "empty", another may call it "full". It really doesn't matter, one way or the other, the point really is to engage in a spirutal quest to expand your consciousness so you become cognizant of all dimensions of the universe and see the world as "in God", "from God", and "all God".

As far as I know the Buddhist does not understand persons to be absolute truth. There is no jiva-tattva as such.

Nirvana With and Without "Remainder"

Nirvana is neither a place nor a mental state. It is a fact about us. A nirvana is the absence of afflictions in someone whose cultivation of wisdom has resulted in the destruction of ignorance, desire, hatred, etc. That mere absence is the nirvana.

On that, all Buddhist schools agree. However, they disagree over the use of the term "remainder" used in conjunction with nirvana. Other than Prasangika, it is said that after a person attains nirvana, he or she subsequently can be said to have a "nirvana with remainder," the "remainder" being the body and mind. Death cuts the remainder. However, the nirvana without remainder is a single moment, occurring just at the time of death but not after. After death there is no person to whom the nirvana can belong!

http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N64_8.php

Actually, nirvana is a STATE of consciousness, it represents the level of consciousness a person is operating/vibrating from. In truth, nirvana, heaven and hell are all omnipresent, there is no real distinction between any of these layers, but WE make the distinctions because of the level of consciousness we are functioning from.

I would never be so bold as to blaspheme such an advanced personality as His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada whose intelligence and knowledge is evidenced by the library of books he translated and purported.

He is so obviously an erudite scholar with a full grasp of the English language. So I understand your indignation.

I just never know how to deal with what is called 'apharada'.

Oh yeah, you are so right.

It's only acceptable to flame Krishna and his pure devotees on these forums, but we can't flame knucklheads who present Srila Prabhupada as a cruel and violent person.

How quickly these 'spiritual' discussions degrade into personal flaming.

nirvara is primarily a Buddhist concept. The closest idea in the 'Hindu' Gita, is moksa which means liberation. It is an impersonal state. The individual jiva 'merges' with the impersonal brahmajyoti which is pure spirit.

This 'white light' is said to be radiating from the body of Visnu.

Although I am not an expert on Buddhism, I know Buddhism is essentially atheist and believes that the Absolute is void (no thing). Nirvana is a state of complete emptying 'sunyata' where all suffering is anihilated.

So there is quite a diversity of views regarding Oneness. Personalist vaisnavas understand the existence of spiritual qualities or form 'vigraha'.

The soul is called sat-cit-ananda vigraha or eternity-knowledge-bliss.

All consciousness is such. But the individual remains even as part and parcel of the Absolute, which is Bhagavan Krsna. That is a philosophy of inconceivable oneness and difference.

i am having a discussion with a Christian who is telling me that Hinduism says that "All is one" look at the argument he is presenting:

 

"In effect Hindus say that there are no distinctions, and yet say that we are not yet in nirvana. They say there are no distinctions, yet draw a distinction between our life now, and nirvana."

 

So he is saying Hinduism is one big contradiction, how do I counter this argument?

How do we know somebody is a sadhu? Because of how they're dressed? Because they claim to be?

Q1) The sants and sadhus don't need anything from us. But it's nice to interact with them if you get the chance to do so

It's nice to be able to settle issues by claiming authority over them. Jesus answered the Pharisees questions on several occasions even when they were setting traps. Where there is no desire to learn the truth, when the truth is suppressed for political reasons , or because it is unpalatable it is 'casting pearls before swine.'

Jesus directs the disciples in a new place "to make a careful search" (10) for a worthy host household, to accept its hospitality without subsequently shopping around for more favorable accommodations (10:11), and after entering the dwelling to pronounce God's peace on the selected household unless it later proves unworthy (10:12-13). Jesus concludes this set of instructions with a directive to perform a ritual of judgment outside any household or town unreceptive to the disciples' message ("shake off the dust from your feet," 10:14) and with a final sobering comparison of the fate of that place to the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah (10:15). Rejection of the kingdom message can have devastating consequences.

This however is a discussion group, to all appearances, not a preaching forum.

Haribol. Unfortunately, my last thread was blocked due to unnecessary spamming. However, one of my last posts was honestly questioned. I provided this quote:

 

 

 

 

<CENTER>CHALLENGING THE AUTHORITY OF SRI GURUDEVA (Mark 11: 27-33)</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER>

The scholars, elders and priests were questioning Lord Jesus Christ thus: "Who gives You the power to do these things?" He responded, "I will answer on the condition you answer whether the baptism of John is heaven-sent or of human origin?"

 

The church leaders conferred among themselves, deciding both possible answers threatened their positions. Heaven-sent meant they denied the Will of the Supreme, human origin meant that they were to be attacked by the people, so they diplomatically answered, "We cannot tell."

Lord Jesus Christ then said, "Then I won't tell you either."

 

mahaksadasa Comment: The lesson here is that authority of Gurudeva is never discussed among the faithless.

 

A writer did not understand why Lord Jesus seemed so curt with his response. Why could he not answer the question? This brings up the topic of challenging authority.

 

So, here in the outback, I question authority. Those who have read my political posts over the ten years Ive been blogging know that I not only question authority, I defy it. I have never shut out anyone with an edge, in fact, I welcome it. I also pay obiesancies to my Spiritual Master, Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami, for his rebellious nature. However, in the context of the topic described above, this questioning of authority MUST be scientific if it has any value.

 

Loprd Jesus Christ made a determination. He has that right. There was no point in continuing the discussion, because those questioning had no interest in ANY answer he may have provided, The questioners had all the answers they needed, they were firm, in no need of any new information. Their questioning was completely dishonest, politically (or religiously, no difference) motivated.

 

In the science of Bhakti yoga as presented by Srila Prabhupada, questioning of authority is demanded. Srila Prabhupada criticized blind faith more severely that blind rejection. He gives us scientific knowledge for us to AVOID the pitfalls that some have not avoided, i.e. accepting bogus demons as spiritual masters. However, he also expects us to put HIM to the test before we accept him as our spiritual master. OOPS, maybe some see spiritual master to meaN WE ARE SPIRITUAL slaves, but master has different meanings other than overlordship over other beings. Master also means proficiency in a particular field, and we approach such masters every day to offer our services, bosses, teachers, spouses, children.

 

Lord Jesusw Christ teaches by this citation that we need not engage in discussion with those who challenge for the sake of challenge, not wanting any relief from their doubts. Pearls before swine is the occidental phrase, the oriental phrase is to not engage in preaching effort to the faithless. The Bhagavad Gita gives us information as to who is a likely candidate for receiving answers to their questions.

 

There are four types eligible for Bhakti Yoga, and there are also four types that we do not have to bother with, to waste our time with, because to engage these types, we invite offense, thus becoming offenders ourselves. Later, as time permits, we will discuss these eight different types which give rise to understanding exactly Lord Jesus Christ said, "I will not tell you, either." I saw Srila Prabhupada say this to an idiot as well, a fool who was reaLLY SO FULL OF HIS OWN egomania that his questions were of no value.

 

Srila Prabhupada asks us to question his authority, all the time, specifically as seen in the second chapter of the compilationary book, Teachings of Self Realization. However, the key is the phrase submissive inquiry. This phrase is quite self explanetory, and prevents both blind faith and blind rejection with just two words. We must Want the answer (for four reasons), THEN WE ASK. The four reasons will be explained from Bhagavad Gita as it is in later installments on this topic (unless it is ruined by one of the four types rejected by Lord Jesus Christ).

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

I am a lacto-vegetarian. It is difficult to avoid eggs, but I try.

I am a little confused about the ethics of vegans who say that getting commercial milk is enabling calf slaughter.

Well where have you been - they have been feeding cows to cows for years - they feed blood to baby cows - at least if milk from cows is offered to God - with sincere love - there may be some hope for these cows - but - without that - there is nothing but some hideous reflection of 'natural' in all of this.

 

Yes it is prudent to quit eating animals - as even the bible asks this of us - there is that one [there are more] verse in Isaiah 'Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good' - that means that we take our food as a by-product of an animal [like butter and honey] - not in the form of the animal itself.

 

As you can see in this video - one can have a meat like substance and not have all the hormones and diseases and other nasty things found in meat [not only the karma] - if one is lacto one can use butter oil to impart the gamey taste to the soy chunks - when made correctly - they are very close to 'beef' in fact -we've given them to people who are not vegetarians and they think it's some kind of meat - they are surprised to learn it's soy - so have a look at it - what you see in the wok is only 2.5 cups dry soy chunks [the cost here is $4.40 a kilo dry] - soy has much more in volume when moistened and cooked - it is less than 1/10 the cost of flesh:

 

[Yes these two are the same i messed up and pasted it in twice and cannot delete one now and - please press the play button on the tool bar not in the center of the image]

 

 

<EMBED src=""http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"> <EMBED src=""http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtiKGxlL8kY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent">I'll do a more comprehensive video on cooking these soy chunks if others want to see it....

How can any sincere person argue with these contents.

God/Krsna bless you.

From "Chant and Be Happy" Chapter 7

"Christ or Krsna, the name is the same"

 

My advice is if you are a Lutheran then get into being a Lutheran with all of your heart, all of your mind, and all of your strength. If you find anything that inspires you from another tradition perhaps you can adopt it.

 

For example Prabhupada met with Christian nuns in England and shared how in his culture his tradition used japa beads to always meditate on the name of God. He also shared that a great Mystic, Chaitanya, said that God has hundreds and millions of names. So in essence he was sharing that if they felt more comfortable to chant "The Jesus Prayer" all during the day then that would be a way that Christians could be faithful to their tradition yet learn a multi-cultural thing to increase their devotion from another tradition.

 

My advice is meditate on the great saints in your tradition like Saint Francis of Assisi and Mother Teresa. There are so many saints that there is actually a feast day for each day of the year. Then you can use that idea from Gaudiya Vaisnavism that there are many holy days all through the year besides Christmas and Easter.

 

The main thing is to look to the strengths to keep yourself strong on the path. Study the lives of the great mystics in your tradition, as mystics the world over have shared many common characteristics. You can use the terminology of Gaudiya Vaishnavism to understand the beauty of these Christian mystics: each was a lover of God in a different rasa: santa rasa or peacefulness, dasya rasa or servitude, and so on. Some experienced God as their dearmost friend; others experienced God as their beloved and wore a wedding ring signifying this. Actually I think most nuns do this.

 

Each tradition also has its own pitfalls. In Christianity there have been the contemporary scandals of Jonestown, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Benny Hinn, Ted Haggart, HV Grant, Kent Hovind, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, and Jim Whittington. Yet the same religion that produced those people also produced Mother Teresa and Saint Francis of Assisi.

 

In the meantime perhaps make a checklist of what helps you from Gaudiya Vaisnavism and what doesn't. Then avoid and steer clear of what doesn't resonate with you and incorporate into your life what inspires you. If you make such a checklist you will probably find that there are millions of other people in the world who agree with your list from ALL of the religions of the world. Most people probably don't like tyranny or tyrants as religious leaders. Most nice people probably don't like duplicity and lack of tact and patience in self-styled spiritual leaders. Most people probably don't like a religious leader

using their money for selfish means rather than the stated goals of the Mission Statement of their religion.

 

Then stick to what you do know and do like, focus on the positive. The first thing on the "to do" list of Jesus was: "Love God"; the second thing was "Love thy neighbor as thyself". Then find the people that are doing those things. Find the people who are really acting on this realization and not talking about it: "God is Love; Love is Patient and Kind." By doing so you will have harmony with every tradition, such as the Dalai Lama who said, "My religion is very simple: my religion is kindness."

Good luck with your hostile campaign. You obviously have a personal problem.

Your excuse didnt' require much thinking.

It is quite arrogant to presume that disagreement has to be in 'bad faith'.

You posted you reply 3 minutes after I posted mine. There is no way that you actually read closely and thought about what I said. I consequently believe that you are not acting in "good faith" and I am hereby requesting Administrator 5 to combine this thread with your previous thread and lock it.

I am also request that cbrahma be prohibited from starting threads on this forum.

The thread is mine. I continued the topic very consistently. It was everything I could do to prevent personal attacks and readdress issues. That is a very feeble excuse.

I think that one of the main reasons people are attacking you so much is your lack of clarity. Most of the posters here are western men who like to compete. Many of these dicsussions are really debates. Its not really possible to debate an issue with someone if they are constantly going off point and even changing the issue mid-stream. Not only that, it drives most people crazy and thats one of the reasons that they (we) are lashing out at you.

These are the issues or questions that you are raising, mixing together and jumping back and forth amongst:

1) Can humans approach God directly without an intermediary?

2) Does religious hierarchy, that is organized religion, always lead to repression and oppression?

3) Is there really and omnipotent, omniscient and merciful God? And if so why do bad things happen to good people?

4) Is the God of Israel the only real God and is Jesus Christ His "only begotten son" and the only saviour of all human-kind? And can Jesus be approached directly?

Many of the persons that ISKCON (through Prabhupada's preaching) has drawn in are not really Gaudiya Vaisnavas at heart. So much of "preaching" is really just propaganda and not the real cannons of Mahaprabhu's movement. It seems that you are a person captured by the propaganda and now regreting it. Whether or not you want to accept the real precepts of Gaudiya Vaisnavism or return to Christianity is really about your own soul searching and should not be subject to an internet debate. Often those who engage in such a debate are no longer acting in good faith but rather have a grudge or "axe to grind".

I need desperately to chant. I feel like I'm in a spiritual desert without the precious Holy Name. Sometimes I feel like I'm suffocating and oxygen is the Mahamantra.

Thank you prabhuji for the encouragement.

[

quote=Bhakta Don Muntean]I told you what to do - forget gurus and forget chanting if you like - pray and study - sincerely - and you'll find your way - just know that God is not limited to the Christian tradition and know the truth an facts about Jesus and you'll be fine - if you don't wish to sort out the messiah issues then your simply embracing blindly - because if you really believe in God - you'll go where that may take you - even if it's in a place where such things are at question. Good luck!

There must be direct experience. The final authority must be internal otherwise cheaters are empowered.

even here, on this impersonal internet site, some posters shine like diamonds by the virtue of the obvious wisdom in their posts. they are the self-effulgent lot

 

others, like me, just try to imitate them.

What is the answer? Which is diksa? Does the fact that Srila Sridar 're-initiated' somebody authorize the process?

Allannatha received initiation by Prabhupada but later was re-initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaja and is today known as Paramadvaiti Swami. After having received initiation twice he must know the right answer?

Who said I was IN ISKCON? Why don't you have the courage to identify yourself? Sniping personal attacks behind an anonynous login is cowardice.

Are you apsycholgist? A psychic or clairvoyant maybe. You are in denial about the public documented atrocities spawned by religion. Very sane and healthy persons have noted this. Do you need some references?

You need to see a psychologist.

 

If you have so many problems with ISKCON, just get out and find some place else.

Patriotism is the close cousin of religion. "God and country" are often sounded together.

even more atrocities have been committed in the name of patriotism.

 

primitive people have primitive religions and they act like savages. that does not mean that it has to be that way. seek out advanced religious concepts and stay away from religious savages.

If one has not recieved Hari Nama from a living guru he should do so.

 

- Alannatha Das

Is this diksa? I know in ISKCON there are two initiations one for hare-nama and one for gayatri.

Are these both diksa? Why is there a need for two diksa initiations. I thought the diska guru had to be one person.

I didn't know who it was from but here is the quote again since it is so relevant to my point.

I heard that in Sri Sri Ravishankar's AOL sessions, shedding the ego is one of the first teachings, where a member is asked to do things in full view of the other members. The things include crawling, barking like dog, dancing, singing, etc.--generally chores that would lesson the personal ego

 

There is no mood but trying to support a point with evidence, a point that keeps getting denied as bogus, bunk...etc as though its just a product of my defiant imagination. There is so much evidence out there.

Why did you place a quote from me about guru being teacher - with this bunk? I see that you're frustrated but - do know that such a mood in you is playing more defiance than defense...

I've studied hard copies of the Srimad Bhagavatam. The absolute obedience of the disciple is NOT bogus. I even produced a link from this very site to prove it.

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD width="100%">Audarya Fellowship <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Email Discussion Lists <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Shakti Sadhana <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->Fwd: Re: Need of a Guru, diksha and rosary for mantra japa</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That is bogus - please do yourself a favor and download the free Vedabase and study that:

 

http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?26500000037010

 

This is an old version - but - it has everything Prabhupada gave us and it's not too hard to use - with this and use of the search engine - you can see what is what and see that the above concept isn't what were taught by Prabhupada. It sounds like you've some cheaters in your midst....

You have not declared your login as I have. You can see all my posts simply by clicking on my login link. Go to the very first post and you will find my initial motive. My idea BTW is not pre-conceived as I have found proof of it on this very site as you may read in the previous posts.

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD width="100%">Audarya Fellowship <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Email Discussion Lists <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Shakti Sadhana <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->Fwd: Re: Need of a Guru, diksha and rosary for mantra japa <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Can you actually state your goal in posting on this forum? .

I Googled for slave of guru and got returned to this site with the following quote from the

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt1 width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom><TD></TD><TD></TD><TD width="100%">Audarya Fellowship <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Email Discussion Lists <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> Shakti Sadhana <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->> <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->Fwd: Re: Need of a Guru, diksha and rosary for mantra japa <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lastly, I wish to qoute the great Kannada saint-poet-musician Shree

PurandharadhAsa :

 

"guruvina gulAmanAguva thanaka dhoreyadaNNa mukuthi"

 

[it is impossible to attain mukthi (salvation or emancipation) until

one becomes a slave of the Guru (without the divine grace of the

Guru)]

 

A man might be well-versed in different scriptures. He might have

renounced the world and might have crucified his flesh, but Truth is

revealed only to him who has become the slave of the Sadguru.

 

My whole life is not just sufficient to explain the glory of the

Sadguru.

 

This is a very important question to which I doubt you will receive an answer from any of the authorities in the ISCKON hierarchy. I know one thing for sure. Prabhupada never agreed to have gurus appointed by a committee.

Why? And leave devotees with no guru! So why they say they are guru in first place?!?!

In my association with vaisnavas I have found offenses to be numerous. What is supposed to happen as a result? Are these people supposed to stop in their path? Leave the temple? I have seen no observable results. The most offensive often maintain high positions.

Dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisacnes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 

So -- don't critisise even kanistha-adhikaris.

 

 

--

Your servant,

Dennis. dennis_s