Shakti-Fan

I removed myself from the Iskcon ranks some 27 yrs. ago due to the problems you describe. If I would have continued to focus so much attention and obsess about as you are doing I would have gone mad a long time ago. Just because there was big trouble in the Iskcon institution does not mean that if we are sincere practitioners that we will not follow the advices of guru, sadhu and sastra. They advise that somehow or other we fix the mind on Krsna yena kena prakayena manah Krsna nishevayat. Focusing on the faults of others is not the perscription rather it is something to avoid like a plague. Even impersonalists, mystics, yogis and mundane psychologists know to focus on and accentuate the positive not the negative. The philosophy of Krsna Consciousness is that of acintya bheda abheda tattva, or simultaneous oneness and difference as espoused by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Himself. Just because the Gaudiya Vaisnavas accept bheda or some duality in the Absolute does not mean that we should become lost in the duality of this world. The practitioners of bhakti yoga are to analyze the world as the combination of the three modes of material nature. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur has expertly used this model in a revolutionary way in much of the literature that he has produced. I would recommend that you read his books such as Jaiva Dharma, Sri Krsna Samhita, The Bhagavat Speech and others. Anyway a Vaisnava is always gentle with others and harsh on himself and not visa versa. If Srila Prabhupada would have spent his time up on a soap box trying to bring down his godbrothers for the failings of the Gaudiya Math, then what would have been our fate?

It's seems that you suffer from some mental illness that includes paranoia.

For us to be good hearted and generous then we will see that it's just the play of the material energy. But for the perpetrators, they must accept responsibility and repent for their offenses to Srila Prabhupada's mission otherwise they are hopeless. Similarly all of us small fries must repent and accept responsibility for ruining our own spiritual lives and therefore being unable to really help others. This is why criticizing the institution is the flip side of defending it. The real path requires one to look within constantly and question one's own motives and this is called atma-niksepana. If an institutional manifestation of Krsna Consciousness has been relativised and this has become a thorn in our side, then we need to stop looking at it and proceed with just ourselves and perhaps a few good friends. To constantly analyze what went wrong with ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila is like hanging out and gazing at a traffic accident where there are serious injuries. This is especially pernicious if we don't have a positive Krsna Conscious alternative. Move along folks there's nothing to look at, move along.

I'm not saying that roles of the sanyassis and ritviks translated into zonal diksa gurus. What I'm trying to show is that such a thing can easily be misunderstood and then such a situation as "Zonal Acaryas' can happen. But a spiritual movement's transformation in to a mundane organization does not have to be all black and white. It can happen completely or partially depending on the circumstances. The material atmosphere tends to erode the spiritual nature of a movement or even it's teachings, otherwise why does Krsna say yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati, that when the real spiritual teachings erode then I come to re-establish them. If someone like Srila Prabhupada knows this then why did he come to the West? Why did he even bother to preach? Why did Krsna arrange to send him? The answer is by causeless mercy. The real blame is on the material energy, for it is Maya herself that has caused so many problems and ultimately it is Krsna's fault for creating such a lila as the material world.

Why would you think that Iskcon under Prabhupada's direction was a "purely material organization"? Also I think that the points I have made are valid. I can't see what you are driving at? What are you trying to prove? I question if you are on a search for truth or are only interested in being right?

I really don't disagree, but I'm trying to show how management in a "spriritual institution" can transcend mundane managerial proclivities if performed in proper Krsna Consciousness. The problem - easier said than done.

Cooking for Krsna is really the service of Srimati Radharani. In the 1970's in LA we were always told that we were cooking, cleaning etc. in Srimati Radharani's kitchen. Therefore was managing Her kitchen a mundane thing or a devotional service? Why do you think that everything is so black and white. This doesn't seem to serve you at all. Devotees who see things as all or nothing tend to end up on the nothing side in the long run.

The dichotamy between management and the role of spiritual advisor is experienced in all Gaudiya Vaisnvava institutions. Maybe it is the nature of the beast since there is so much overlap in responsibilities? Therefore there may be no culprit after all. For those who don't care for the institutional approach to Vaisnavism there are alternatives.

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

The Song Remains the Same BY: JAGABANDHU DASA Apr 28, FORT WHITE, FLORIDA (SUN) — When I first tried to join ISKCON in May of 1976 at the age of seventeen, among the first things I unfortunately learned was to think ill of women, the meat-eating demon "karmis," people of other spiritual traditions (especially Srila Prabhupada's Godbrothers) and the demigods themselves. To this day I wonder how any such ideas or feelings can be substantiated in terms of Real Krishna Consciousness and hopeful genuine internal upliftment towards Divine Love. Or to borrow from Srila Bhaktivinoda's vernacular, "O, to be rid of the prejudices borne of unripe years!" Not much more than a year later, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada departed, causing a great sadness to fall upon the world. Shortly thereafter, in early 1978, as a young uninitiate, I was unanimously encouraged by the disciples of His Divine Grace whom I had always looked up to and trusted without question, to seek shelter from our new Zonal Acharya who was one of Srila Prabhupada's supposedly chosen successors. During that first year after Srila Prabhupada's departure, the new Zonal Acharya had his own Sri Vyasa-puja event with a fancy gold embossed Vyasa-puja book, mostly filled with flowery praises by his own godbrothers since there were as yet hardly any second generation or grand-disciples to write offerings in what would have been a book of blank pages. Since this Zonal Acharya was one of the first to manifest difficulties, the same godbrothers who formerly freely gave written accolades were quick to deny that they had ever done so, and the books containing record of this were eventually destroyed. In late spring of 1980, I was asked by my Temple President on short notice to quickly compose that year's already overdue Sri Vyasa-puja offering for the Detroit temple. Because I completely trusted my seniors, Srila Prabhupada's disciples, as to the veracity of the reputed Divine succession of the chosen eleven, what I wrote emphasized the alleged truth about how wonderful Srila Prabhupada was to give us the gift of his supposed successor acharyas. Not long after this our local Zonal Acharya began to demonstrate serious deviations from Srila Prabhupada's Beautiful Teachings and I was sent with the then Radhanatha dasa to New Vrindaban as his assistant bhakta leader, as well as tour guide at the Palace of Gold and the managing editor of Brijbasi Spirit. This was during the spring of 1981. During the fall of 1981, I was at Kirtanananda Swami's house while the now departed ISKCON sannyasi, Sripada Sridhar Swami was visiting and it was from him I first heard of Srila Prabhupada's Godbrother, Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaj. By the end of the year, I had traveled to California where, after spending time with Sripada Atreya Rsi Prabhu at his Bhaktivedanta Fellowship in San Francisco, I soon found myself associating with devotees from Bhakti Sudhir (the former Dhira Krishna dasa) Goswami's new temple on behalf of Srila Sridhar Maharaj in San Jose. As one changes, thoughts grow deeper. If I had not been initiated by one of the first Zonal Acharyas to experience personal difficulty in their practicing life, I don't know if I would have been compelled to soul-search for answers to my initiation dilemma. As a younger man, yet unmarried, I had found the time to make an extensive study of Srila Prabhupada's Beautiful books and I had also already had many dreams of His Divine Grace. I knew that he had spoken strongly about his Godbrothers, but had also said that he could say like that, but his followers could not. And that all his Godbrothers were great souls and that they should not be ill-thought of even in the minds of his followers. Many thanks to my old and dear friend Sripad Raghavendu Prabhu and Sripada Bhakti Sudhir Goswami, I felt inspired to make a careful study of what Srila Saraswati Thakur and our own Srila Prabhupada had to say about Srila Sridhar Maharaj's extremely illuminatory guidance along with listening carefully to Srila Sridhar Maharaj's own words about real Krishna Consciousness. I cannot speak for others, but for me personally Srila Sridhar Maharaj's guidance has been of inestimable benefit to my inner development without me feeling the need to abandon ISKCON or proselytize for other missions. Srila Govinda Maharaj is equally important to my inner life, but I also do not proselytize on his behalf either, while I hold fast to impartiality regarding my own inspirations, mainly quoting from Srila Prabhupada, Srila Saraswati Thakur and Srila Bhaktivinoda, thereby trying to respect the ISKCON audience of the Sun. ISKCON is where I first got the seeds of Krishna Consciousness in this lifetime and both Srila Sridhar Maharaj and Srila Govinda Maharaj have been of inestimably beneficial assistance to the cultivation of these seeds, after Srila Prabhupada's departure. But my own primary dedication has always been to Srila Prabhupada, who still comes to me in dreams asking for me to help him, which to me means the reformation of His Divine Grace's Sacred Mission, with thoughts, ideas and real Krishna Consciousness. Also, my own personal circumstances having to caregive for an extremely autistic daughter have prevented me from having hardly any formal contact with any spiritual sangam since the 1980's. And a large part of my reticence in pursuing formal associations has been because of what happened as a result of my being misled by my superiors to take shelter of my Zonal Acharya in the first place. After all the acrimony, arguments, quarrels and visceral disagreements beginning to manifest in the 1980's, between concerned parties ostensibly officially representing the Krishna Consciousness movement at that time and not liking to argue or quarrel myself I felt compelled to withdraw nearly entirely from any official association. If it had not been for the great influence of Srila Sridhar Maharaj upon my soul and consciousness, I may well have felt justifiably compelled to throw the baby out with the bathwater and completely reject Krishna Consciousness out of hand, especially after all the nonsense which had been falsely represented as true Krishna consciousness. If that was Krishna Consciousness, I wanted no part of it and was very nearly on the verge of rejecting it wholesale in the same way I had done to the Presbyterianism of my youth. I cannot emphasize enough how hearing from Srila Sridhar Maharaj saved me from completely rejecting Krishna Consciousness. His Divine guidance has also had a profoundly similar effect on my good wife, Krishnaashrita dasi. The end result of Srila Sridhar Maharaj's influence upon this lowly soul has been for me to want to make a closer study of Srila Prabhupada's books while also making a parallel examination of the awesome Teachings of the two affectionate Godbrothers, as if I were learning about Krishna Consciousness from Srila Rupa and Srila Sanatan Goswamis, who although different in subjective mood and vernacular are identical and harmonious in their flawless representation of Mahaprabhu's Teachings. In the 1970's, one of Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's disciples was annoying him with a barrage of questions about Christ and Krishna Consciousness, to which His Divine Grace finally responded with exasperation, "I am not your answer machine." Curiously, in 1983, this same disciple was pestering Srila Sridhar Maharaj with the same line of questions only to finally receive the very same annoyed response, "I am not your answer machine." To this day, it breaks my heart to consider how rudely Srila Sridhar Maharaj was treated by Srila Prabhupada's reputed successors and even continues to be ill-thought of by some in the present time, under the presumed emotional notion of real devotion to Srila Prabhupada. Regarding reading books written by other Vaishnavas besides Srila Prabhupada's own, it may be interesting to note how His Divine Grace within his Superexcellent commentary of Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta encourages the study of Sri Sanatan Goswamipada's Brhad-Bhagavatamrta, which was not a BBT publication in 1975, or during Srila Prabhupada's lifetime. On this note I might submit a humble plea before our esteemed international audience to please kindly segregate the mind from bias and the duality borne of party spirit, while not divesting oneself of mature intelligent discrimination when making impartial parallel comparisons between two affectionate Godbrothers who were both simultaneously held in highest regard by Srila Saraswati Thakur himself. What follows has been printed before many times and many places, both on and off the internet. It represents a transcription of the last known recorded meeting between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Sridhar Maharaj in March of 1977, just a few months before Srila Prabhupada's departure. In it, we find His Divine Grace imploring Srila Sridhar Maharaj to take up residence at his beloved ISKCON temple in Sridham Mayapur, even expressing that, "If you stay, then it will be helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone, but there is no one. There is no one I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly." And also, "My disciples are telling me they will build a house for me. So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am traveling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance." Srila Prabhupada: I do not know for how long I will be able to carry on. So, I came to see Sridhar Maharaj. Devotee: If you all go away, then the world will become dark. Srila Sridhar Maharaj: [to Srila Prabhupada] It is so wonderful that the will of the Lord becomes manifest through someone. Srila Prabhupada: I want very much, Maharaj, that you come and stay at Mayapur. Because Prabhupad (Srila Saraswati Thakur) always desired that you preach. He told me quite a few times, "Why don't you pull him out?" [They both laugh.] You know, I also tried to some extent before, but somehow or other it did not work out. Now, why don't you come and stay at Mayapur? Srila Prabhupad (Srila Saraswati Thakur) told me also, "Sridhar Maharaj is one of the finest preachers." I want to take you everywhere. At least at the place we have in Mayapur, people are coming from all over the world. Why don't you come and stay there? If you just agree, then whatever kind of building you want, I will arrange it for you. They are trying to build a house for me. So both of us will stay there. And whenever you want, you can come here to your Math. Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, as long as I am alive to fulfill Prabhupad's (Srila Saraswati Thakur's) desire. Srila Prabhupada: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach, at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. If you stay, then it will be helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is no one. There is no one that I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly. Devotee: If he stays in Mayapur, then, all kinds of people will get to hear from him. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's right. Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, people from all kinds of cultural backgrounds will come there. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and a lift. My disciples are telling me that they will build a house for me. So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am travelling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance. So, Maharaj, please, give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you. That Planetarium [The "Temple of Understanding"] also will be built under your direction. My idea is to combine the Indian culture and the American money -- the lame man and the blind man policy. I tell them also that this will be very beneficial for the world. Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, as long as I am alive to fulfill Prabhupad's (Srila Saraswati Thakur's) desire. Srila Prabhupada: This is my earnest desire. Since you could not go around the world and preach, at least stay there and people will come to you. I shall make that arrangement. If you stay, then it will be helpful to me also. Sometimes I need to consult with someone but there is no one. There is no one that I can consult. I feel this deficiency very greatly. Devotee: If he stays in Mayapur, then, all kinds of people will get to hear from him. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that's right. Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes, people from all kinds of cultural backgrounds will come there. Srila Prabhupada: Yes, and they are already coming. And in that house I will make arrangements for an elevator so that you won't have to go through the difficulty of walking up and down the stairs. You won't even have to move a step yourself. I'll make arrangements for a car and a lift. My disciples are telling me that they will build a house for me. So, both of us will stay in that house. Most of the time I am travelling around, so if you are there, then they can get some guidance. So, Maharaj, please, give me the order and I will make all the arrangements for you. That Planetarium [The "Temple of Understanding"] also will be built under your direction. My idea is to combine the Indian culture and the American money -- the lame man and the blind man policy. I tell them also that this will be very beneficial for the world.

If you don't have an Iskcon prejudice then why would you have anything to do with "the dispute" about Srila Sridhar Maharaja? The dispute you are referring to only goes on in formal or informal Iskcon circles. If your not in or influenced by these circles then why would such a dispute concern you at all? Forbidding and harsh? As I wrote earlier, Mahaprabhu Himself found his own trnadapi sunicena verse to be quite forbidding (foreboding) and harsh? I don't imagine that a person with an open mind would consider this countenance "forbidding and harsh."

Bhakti is the king, jnana or knowledge is one of the important ministers of king bhakti. Jnana is there to serve bhakti, only. In the highest level of bhakti then is no jnana for the inhabitants of Vrndavana do not know that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They just think that he is a beautiful young boy, and that He may be empowered by Lord Narayana.

Since you seem to have an Iskcon prejudice you will be happy to know that my diksa guru is His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Bhakti Rasaka Sridhar Maharaj who is one of my sisksa gurus is no longer on this planet so he is not giving diksa at this time. So obviously this is not about diksa but rather the deep meanings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Siksastakam.

"Anandambudhi-vardhanam pratipadam purnamrtasvadanam. A full draught of an ocean of blissful nectar is served to the soul, who has been thirsty from time immemorial. "Sarvtama-snapanam param, vijayate sri-krsna-sankirtanam. This point has two fold meaning, one external and one internal. Sarvatman means 'all souls.' The holy Name bathes all souls with spiritual bliss, knowledge and love. The transcendental sound completely overcomes the souls with His sublime potencies. But atman has many meanings, as given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Atman means the supreme absolute truth, the body, the mind, the intelligence, endeavor, conviction and nature. By uttering the pure sound of the maha-mantra one invades the very cause of everything that exists. The mind, body and soul, and even nature itself can be changed into transcendental nature by one heart-felt exclamation of 'Hare Krsna.' Capture the sound waves which are the cause of every item of existence and saturate them with the holy Name. The result will be the total transformation of energy. An asrama, temple, and all the paraphernalia in them, are all divine. The environment in which we live in the asrama is not the same as the one in which we were born. It is 'there' it is Goloka, and the more we progress in our sadhana the more He will reveal Himself to us. These truths about the descent of the Hare Krsna mantra were alluded to by Jayadeva Gosvami, jagat-guru, who has written a beautiful verse in description of this process: 'O Hari Nama, You enter my ear and touch my heart, and tears flow from my eyes and fall to the ground; making soft clay, my footprints are left for my successors to follow my way." "It must be noted that if the teacher is bogus, then that Name will not touch the spiritual spark within the coverings of mind and body. It may sound the same, but it is not-just as milk ;and whitewash look the same but they are altogether different., "Now many such artificial gurus are about, and this fact is, as it were camouflaging the genuine devotees. If someone finds a treasure beneath a tree and marks the tree with his initials and then comes back to find every tree marked with the same initials, he is unable to recall the original tree. This is now often the case, since false holy men are running rampant. But if one is fortunate enough to know the scriptures and tradition, and if one is truly sincere, he will find a genuine sadhu, hear the Name, and begin authentic spiritual life. Then he or she will find a great gift indeed. "The original sentiments invoked by the Name are concentrated blissful recollections of the pastimes of Krsna as performed in the spiritual world. These sentiments are in all souls and are five in number: the neutral sentiment, the serving sentiment, the sentiment of friendship, parental sentiment, and the sentiment of intimate love. Krsna is called akhila-rasamrta-sindhu, the ocean of all transcendental sentiment. In the Bhagavat-gita Krsna says, ye yatha mam prapadyante, tams tathaiva bhajamya-ham: 'I reciprocate all the different services rendered to Me within the sphere of these different sentiments, or rasas.' While all of these relationships or spiritual sentiments are on the self-same absolute platform, one may simultaneously acknowledge certain distinctions within them. "For example, Krsna exchanged loving sentiments with the neutral devotees, who do not take active engagements in His interest at His own sweet time and liking. If He wants to play the flute He picks it up, and He sets it down when He likes. To His servants, He is the noble master. In this relationship there is more facility to please the Lord, to bring His food, His favorite clothing. Yet there is still some hindrance, since He may tell the servant to be gone, and the servant must obey out of duty. The friendship rasa has two stages. The first stage is friendship with feeling of respect and reverence. Arjuna has this type of friendly relationship with Krsna. He begs forgiveness from Krsna for unknowingly calling Him in jest or for associating with Him without bowing down, etc. "When friendship with Krsna is more developed, the respect and honorable formalities disappear. Jumping on Krsna's shoulders, wrestling and playing as though Krsna were their equal, Sudama, Sridama and the other cowherd boys revel in endless sports. Sometimes they even consider Krsna their inferior: 'Oh Krsna, He's the youngest one of us. He's also the lightest. We can all overcome Him in wrestling, so go lightly with Him.' As sugar cane juice is concentrated into molasses and then into crystal, so also the friendly rasa with added feelings, develops into parental affection. 'Krsna is my son,' says Mother Yasoda. 'I must always look after His needs and protection. If I don't see Him for even five minutes I get so scared. I see huge trees falling on Him and horrible demons capturing Him. Oh there You are! Why do You scare Your mother like that? Always stay in my presence; I can't stand to have You out of sight.' Even the punishment of the beloved is seen in this intimate relationship. "As concentrated sugar becomes rock candy, so the parental exchange of rasas condenses into conjugal love, in which there is complete dedication to the desires of Krsna, with no tinge of desire for one's own pleasure. 'I am Yours'-complete, unconditional surrender. 'If you trample my body underfoot or embrace me too tightly, for Your pleasure. I am happy. If You want to throw me into hell and keep me far from Your company, I am prepared to go. If You forget me, that's okay, but I cannot forget You. You are always my beloved." By this time His Holiness had become exhausted. After forty years of lecturing previous to the use of microphones, his voice had become very thin. We were only on inch apart, face to face. He sat there with his eyes closed, and it was clear that he was experiencing those things of which he spoke. Just then the loud gong began to toll in crescendo, reaching four loud blasts and reverberating into silence. "Go down now. It's time for aratika. Could you follow my words?" "Yes," I said. "Did you like it?" "Yes." "That's all right. Go down now." Re-typed by Sriman Puru Das from Journal of Vaisnava Studies Vol 2, No. 2/ Spring 1994 Publisher: Steven J. Rosen

<center>The Descent of the Holy Name A Gaudiya Vaisnava Perspective </center> <center>Observations by Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja </center> His Holiness B.R. Sridhara Maharaja sat on the roof of his quarters in Navadvipa (West Bengal). The now very old sadhu was in a contemplative mood, and to approach him in this state disturbed me. He motioned that I should sit in front of him, so I timidly went and sat down on a grass mat at his feet. There was no one to be seen for miles around. "There are many things to see from up here by which we can remember Sri Caitanya.," His Holiness said. "We have this Ganges, this forest, the temples, His favorite tree, banana. What have you come here to ask me?Can you explain how, if the Name is a spiritual thing-how is it that we are all chanting it with a material tongue?" I asked, feeling quite foolish. After some silence he began to speak, "Nitai Caitanya, Nitai Caitanya," and then he proceeded: "It cannot be uttered by a material tongue, nor can a material ear hear the Name. He [the Name] is adhoksaja beyond experimental knowledge], having reserved the right of not being exposed to organic senses. All the experience, knowledge and memories that we have are gleaned with the help of mundane sense perception. Our tongue is comprised mostly of earth and water elements; the nerve endings extending to all parts of the body carry charges of electricity, also a material element. If an object is too far away, it is not touchable, seeable, tasteable, etc; if an object is too close, it is also imperceptible; we can't see our own tilak mark or even our own eyelids. "When the senses are extended by microscopes and telescopes, these instruments have more range, but are still limited to the material sphere. The telescope cannot penetrate te outermost covering of the universe; the microscope lens is composed o atoms and therefore cannot see the atom or anything smaller than the atom. Likewise, the system of mental speculation is also inefficient to perceive the spiritual elements. Mind is a material element whose density is very slight. (Bhagavad-gita VII:4) Higher abstractions are no more spiritual than hard rocks. There is a common belief that by extending the potency of the mind we can conceive of the infinite, but this process is defective. If the infinite can be confined in a limited mind, then it is not infinite. I don't even know how many hairs are on my head. Mental speculators grind their brains over abstract aphorisms of Zen and Upanisads and think that by their own power they can achieve something like infinity. The result is mental masturbation. The mind explodes and dies of exhaustion. And the reaction is deplorable; total forgetfulness of the self and the infinite. 'There are channels by which the infinite descends. He is all power glory, beauty, knowledge, wealth and renunciation. He is dominant, all extending, free and autocratic. The infinite cannot be contained in a limited sphere, as I've just said, but if He is really infinite then He has the power of making Himself known in all His fullness to the finite mind. When out of His own prerogative, he takes the initiative and reveals Himself to the devotee, there is actual perception of Godhead, self realization, transcendental revelation. By the channel of transcendental sound He comes by vibrating the spiritual tongue of the pure devotees representing Him to the world. The spiritual element vibrates the spiritual tongues of the perfect devotee's audience, which have hitherto never been vibrated. "The pure devotee utters the Name of God. Our material ears hear some sound that resembles the transcendental Names of Krsna; our eardrum moves the liquid of the inner ear, half water and half air, which vibrates the ethereal element and touches our mind. At this point, soul has still been untouched, and there has been no genuine spiritual experience. By hearing with the mind's impressions, we enjoy the sound of the cymbals, the beat of the chant, the pleasant company and effect of listening and hearing. But it doesn't stop here. Piercing the mind, the original sound uttered by Gurudeva moves our intellect, and we consider philosophical and metaphysical truths. For millions of years, sages chanted this on the banks of many holy rivers. Ides flood everywhere about the possible effects of the mantra. This, while being quite blissful, is not spiritual revelation in the true sense. Beyond the intelligence is the spiritual element-soul, myself. That sound having cut through all my senses including the mind and intellect, now vibrates the finest sentiments of my own real existence. This is the perception of the holy Name on the spiritual plane with my spiritual ear. Then, the soul inspired, recapitulates, sending vibration back into the intelligence, mind and so on-the whole process inverted-out to my external tongue and we say, 'Hare Krsna! That Hare Krsna is He, And we dance in ecstasy. "Sound, sounds, sounds," His Holiness repeated slowly. "Sounds. Catch hold of the sounds. Seize the sound waves traveling within the either, and your happiness in spiritual life is assured. Once sage has explained in his sutra that massive epidemics are due to contamination of the ether by impure sound. When the lawyers and pleaders in court begin to tell lies in the name of justice, these sound vibrations contaminate the ether, which in turn contaminates the air and water which people breathe and drink, and epidemic is the result. "When four-headed Brahma creates the universe, the seed ingredient is sounds. 'OM.' And from that 'om' the Gayatri mantra is born: In this sound, the fourteen planetary galaxies sprout like whorls of spiraling stars and planets, with the sun situated in the very center of the universe. Each planetary system is composed of a different sound uttered by Lord Brahma. Each galaxy provides the infinite jivas with their particular spheres of karma (action), dhama (religion), artha (economic development), kama (sensual enjoyment and its resultant suffering), and moksa (facility of liberation). It is the function of Brahma to provide these different galaxies and planets according to the sinful and meritorious deeds of the innumerable. Lord Brahma utters a different sound for each planetary system and his engineer, Sri Visvakarma creates the planets according to those sounds. The subtle elements and gross elements are distributed in this way. In our planet, the predominating elements are earth and water. In other worlds, only water is found. On the sun, fire is the prominent element. If a spiritual individual, under the effects of illusion, or maya wishes to end his gross existence, he may enter a planet of air, ether mind or intelligence and live as a ghost. "The individual jiva is also endowed with a particle of creative power. And the ordinary individual as well creates his tiny sphere of influence by sound. Some jiva's spheres of influence are no bigger than their own craniums, and some jivas have influence over a community, a nation, or even a whole planet. The beauty and harmony of their particular spheres of influence depends on the quality of sounds they produce. "When one nation tries to conquer another, the first points to capture are the radio stations, the newspapers, the journals-the lines of communication. By sending out its manifesto by sound, the government can move the former leaders from their posts and capture the country. Then, also by sound, the new government becomes established. If there should be any defect in that sound, then the whole thing is ruined. That is why there is so much alteration in the world situation. The sound of all these jivas is, to quote the Bible, 'Babel.' Nonsensical sounds are entering and contaminating the ether, the air, the water, and the very molecular structure of each and every person, place and thing. "A person's mind is composed of two functions, technically termed sankalpah and vikalpa. Sankalpa refers to the mind's desire to join thoughts into concepts, theories and tableaus of theories. Vikalpa is the mind's function of rejecting thoughts, simplifying and limiting experiences which are gathered through the senses of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch. Both functions are controlled by sound. Here is an experiment; Close your eyes. When I repeat a number, you will see the number flash before your mind like a cash register. One. . .Three. . .Seven. . .Four. . .The processes of sankalpa and vikalpa respectively make the thoughts come and go. This is a very simply form of the mind's process. On a more complicated scale there is the very risky business of intentionally invading the sound waves with defective sound. The lines of communication are filled with impure sound from the earliest schoolbooks to the most advanced so-called philosophy. The White House filibusters are another excellent example of intentional pollution of sound channels. If we were to infuse spiritual sound into the ether, if we were to saturate the ether with the transcendental sound vibration of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, this maha-mantra would purify, enlighten and saturate every being with its potencies. "In Sri Caitanya's eight verses, which comprise the final message of all spiritual instructions, the fist verse gives five effects of the transcendental sound of the Hare Krsna maha-mantra as follows: Ceto-darpana-marjanam. It wipes the material dust from the mirror of the mind. The mind is like the intermediate connecting medium between the spirit and that material external covering called the body. The soul has no material activity. When covered by maya, or illusion, the soul remains dormant in a state of suspended animation. The magnitude of the soul is so great however, that it infuses consciousness on all sides. Through the medium of the mind, the senses act and we 'know' things. If this 'glass.' The mind, is put out of focus by the external nature, we suffer confusion, pain, disease and death. Yes, death is a state of mind only, as 'I'm drowning! 'I'm giving birth!' 'I'm sick!' etc. When the mind is cleansed by the maha-mantra, the mind is forcibly purified. All the material concoctions, which are the cause of our suffering, are forcibly murdered, starved to death. They thrive on material sense pleasures. Flooding the mind with transcendental sound is just like stepping on the pin of a bomb: All those misconception of material suffering and enjoyment are shattered, murdered, and the material mind is conquered wholly, leaving no enemies behind. The mind then reflects the spiritual knowledge, quality and energy of the soul itself. "Bhava-maha-dvagni-nirvapanam. The fire of conditional life is thus extinguished. Nirvana, which most people are trying to understand from Buddhist texts, means extinguishing the fire of material existence. This body has been burning from the very beginning of its duration by the process of digestion. Biologists all declare that the body is a burning organism, giving off heat, water vapor and carbon dioxide. After seventy or more years, our body is consumed by that smoldering digestive fire and we move into another body, only to burn up that one too. It is like chain smoking; with the lit end of the cigarette you light up a fresh cigarette, and on and on. By the potency of the transcendental sound the cause of that fire is extinguished. "Sreyah-kairava-candrikavitaranam vidhyavadhujivanam. The transcendental sound then spreads the light of benedictions, peaceful suggestions and fearlessness, and no more anxieties invade the mine. We approach the world after coming out of the womb with many deep-rooted fears; Is there safety? Is there happiness: Is there peace? The answer is the basic seed. Om in this sense means one big spiritual yes. Om, yes-a positive answer. Simply by negating the mind, the questions of the soul are not satisfied; something positive must be given. The maha-mantra floods the mind with affirmative suggestions of truth.

Personally I am merely a pointer and clicker, a copy and paster. What I've copied and pasted are deep realizations on Krsna nama from a truly exalted soul whom Srila Prabhupada called his "siksa guru". Srila Prabhupada also allowed Back to Godhead Magazine to publish, in 1973, Acutyananda Swami's transcription (with an introduction) of a talk Srila Sridhar Maharaj gave on Krsna nama which the editors entitled, "The Descent of the Holy Name". cbrahma, if you were a realized soul then you would see these very things in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Siksastakam also. All of this is really coming from Mahaprabhu Himself. In fact I can't find it now but there is a place in Caitanya Caritamrta where Mahaprabhu says something like, "Oh I was going along very happily and then I remembered trnadapi sunicena... and I feel like I'm struck by a thuderbolt, the reality of it is so heavy". So if we really deeply read Prabhupada's books, in this case Caitanya Caritamrta we will find the same things that Srila Sridhar Maharaj is telling in my quotes. It's just that Srila Sridhar Maharaj was giving it is his own sweet, loving and poetic way

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

You completely misunderstand. The idea is to cry out for Krsna, to weep for Krsna. If you think that you have some attainment then you how will you feel empty, and the only way we can attract Krsna by our chanting or service is by emptying ourselves. Srila Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja says in Gradations of the Holy Name, Hankering In Surrender Is Our Wealth

The Golden Volcano of Divine Love by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja Unlimited Names of God

[question:] Some people say one has to be free from anarthas for this type of greed to come. [srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is apa-siddhanta. This is not written anywhere in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta or in the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. A person may be more wretched than Bilvamangala, Jagai and Madhai and others. First bhakti will come, and then all offences will disappear. These are the rules and regulations of bhakti. It is not correct to think that we have to give up these anarthas before bhakti manifests. Bhakti can come at any stage. Srimad Bhagavatam has explained this. Those who are animals, those who are ladies, those who are males, those who have sraddha, those who don’t, and those who have nistha, ruci and asakti. Wherever they are, they should begin bhakti. Bhakti is not an impersonal thing. She is a person. As Sri Krsna has a personal form and a personality, bhakti has also. The root personality of bhakti is Srimati Radhika – hladini sakti. So we bow down to Bhakti devi and pray that she may enter our hearts. When she comes she will clean our hearts and arrange a place for Radha and Krsna. First let bhakti come into our hearts, and then all evil and bad things will disappear. This is the process.

Ch 5 Verse 29 bhoktaram yajna-tapasam / sarva-loka-maheshvaram suhridam sarva-bhutanam / jnatva mam shantim ricchati Click here to read Shrila Prabhupada's Bhagavad Gita As It Is 5.29 <http://www.bhagavadgitaasitis.com/5/29/en> jnatva------understanding; mam---Me; (to be) bhoktaram---the enjoyer; (of all) yajna-tapasam---sacrifices and austerities; maha- ishvaram---the great master; sarva-loka---of all worlds; suhridam--- the friend; sarva-bhutanam---of all living beings; ricchati---attains; shantim---peace. He who knows Me to be the enjoyer of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Controller of all planets, and the well-wisher of all jivas, attains moksha. SARARTHA-VARShINI BY ShRILA VIShVANATHA CAKRAVARTI THAKURA Like the jnani, such a yogi also attains moksha by knowledge of Paramatma, which appears through bhakti. This is stated in this shloka beginning with the word bhoktaram. "I am the enjoyer of the yajna performed by the karmi, and I am the sustainer of tapasya performed by the jnani. I am the worshipable object of karmis, jnanis and yogis, and I am Antaryami, and the only Supreme Controller (maheshvara) of all the planets. I am the well-wisher of all jivas, because through My bhaktas I mercifully bestow instructions on bhakti. For this reason, know Me to be the worshipable object of devotees also. Since I am nirguna, it is not possible to realise Me by jnana in sattva-guna. In Shrimad-Bhagavatam (11.14.21) I declared: bhaktyaham ekaya grahyah. "I can be achieved only through bhakti." Only through nirguna bhakti can the yogis realise My partial aspect, Paramatma, as their worshipable object, and attain shanti or moksha." Jnanis and karma-yogis attain knowledge of both the jivatma and Paramatma through nishkama-karma, and so attain mukti. This is the essence of this chapter. Thus ends the Bhavanuvada of the Sarartha-Varshini Tika, by Shrila Vishvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, on the Fifth Chapter of Shrimad Bhagavad-gita, which gives pleasure to the bhaktas and is accepted by all saintly persons. SARARTHA-VARShINI PRAKAShIKA-VRiTTI BY ShRILA BHAKTIVEDANTA NARAYANA MAHARAJA The nishkama-karma-yogis also attain moksha by knowledge of Paramatma, which appears through bhakti. Shri Bhagavan is the only enjoyer of articles offered with bhakti at the time of yajna and tapasya. He, Antaryami, is indeed the worshipable object of the yogis, the well-wisher of all jivas, and He is maheshvara, the Supreme Controller of all planets. tam ishvaranam paramam maheshvaram tam devatanam paramam ca daivatam patim patinam paramam parastad vidama devam bhuvanesham idyam Shvetashvatara Upanishad 6.7 We know our worshipable Lord, who is the master of the worlds, to be the supreme amongst all controllers, the supreme Lord of lords, and the supreme protector of those who can award protection. He is transcendental to impersonal brahma. Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, "After hearing the first four chapters, a doubt could arise. If one attains moksha as the result of nishkama-karma-yoga, then what place does jnana-yoga have, and how does it manifest? The instructions in this chapter have been spoken to remove this doubt. Jnana-yoga (sankhya-yoga) and nishkama-karma-yoga are non-different from each other, for they share the same supreme goal, namely bhakti. In the initial stages of nishkamakarma- yoga, karma predominates over jnana, and in the final stage (jnana-yoga), jnana predominates over karma. By constitutional nature the jiva is a pure, conscious entity. However, he becomes bound by inert matter because he desires to enjoy maya, and as he identifies himself with matter, gradually his constitutional position becomes more covered. As long as this material body exists, material action is necessary. The only way for the baddha-jiva to attain liberation is through cit-ceshta, or the endeavour to revive his constitutional state. To the same degree of intensity with which he makes efforts to revive his original conscious state during his journey within the material body, the predominance of karma becomes weak. Brahmanirv ana (deliverance from mundane bondage and contact with the pleasure of brahma) appears automatically while performing sadhana to develop equal vision, detachment, control over mundane lust and anger and the eradication of all doubts, etc. While practising karma-yoga as well as maintaining the body, one can also perform ashtanga-yogas adhana which is comprised of the eight processes: yama, niyama, asana, pratyahara, pranayama, dhyana, dharana and samadhi. The bliss of bhagavad-bhakti gradually manifests during the performance of such sadhana, if one attains the association of a bhakta. This is called muktip urvika shanti, everlasting peace accompanied by mukti. Here, mukti means being situated in one's own svarupa. At that time, the tendency to perform pure bhajana illuminates the glory of the constitutional nature of the jiva." Thus ends the Sarartha-Varshini Prakashika-vritti, by Shri Shrimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja, on the Fifth Chapter of Shrimad Bhagavad-gita.

This Beggar is a wild and crazy guy!

Of course one can quote an authority on a particular belief system to refute it or show how it compares and contrasts with another system. If you are not still an aspiring Vaisnava then the above statement is confusing. One might write something like, "According to the Vaisnava creed, Vaisnavism is a belief that just requires the faith of the practitioner. Therefore they do not see the need for an official credential." But the way you have written it gives one the impression that you continue to identify with Vaisnavism to some extent or are in some kind of state of religio-spiritual confusion.

Not really, because this is true if you quote them (sadhus and sastra) as an authority which you have done many times. Of course if you're quoting them to criticize, then it is different. It's best to show some integrity and have a consistent position, unless one can admit that they have been in illusion or mistaken about a particular subject.

When you quote Vaisnava sastras or gurus which you have done dozens of times on this forum then you will be associated with them on some level.