tackleberry

God may have many forms such as Maa, Shiva, Krishna, Vishnu, etc. But ALL forms are emanations of one divine soul... So why should we see ANYTHING as seperate. The divine soul in fact has no name, gender, forms until it manifests through Shakti. So why argue about this god being seperate from that god, and that this path is higher than that path.

If it were that simple, every scripture would've so declared in no uncertain terms. The fact that it doesn't proves otherwise. Nor is it illogical to consider every god as distinct. We do consider every human as distinct, don't we? We don't observe all objects and entities as one, we do perceive differences between various objects such as a table, chair etc. So why is it so hard to consider that every god is distinct?

Yes. Most material happiness really only consists of a temporary relief from suffering, doesn't it?

 

How so? When you taste chocolates, is it just a relief or do you find real happiness?

Is this in the Mahabharata someplace? I would love very much to see a quote from some scripture.

 

I would not doubt Madhvacharya either but I need some proof (either from him or anyone else).

Yes, it's given in multiple places, like Madhvacharya's "Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya", which is a commentary on the important events of Mahabharata. Aside from this, there are many other scriptures, where either Madhvacharya or his followers like Vyasa Tirtha, Jagannatha Dasa etc. have given the details of the avatars in both Ramayana and Mahabharata.

You might want to read Jagannatha Dasa's "Harikathamrthasara" that enumerates this, but I do not remember which part, it's a very huge work containing many parts. Mahabharata Tatparya Nirnaya also gives this detail, not only Lord Shiva's incarnation as Ashvatama, but even others such as Dhrtrashtra, Shalya etc.

Try tatvavada.org or any other dvaita website, they might have some resources on this, perhaps also links to these works, especially MBTN.

I would rather meet Lord Parashurama if I was qualified to!

 

But unfortunately I am not qualified so what to do? Better continue on the path of Bhakti-yoga and try to serve the Vaishnavas.

 

If Ashwathama was Lord Shiva, I don't think what he did was a "divine lila." Lord Shiva doesn't perform acts like that. And Lord Krishna wouldn't punish Lord Shiva, who is so dear to him like that.

 

Perhaps Ashwathama was born by the grace of Lord Shiva, but I am having trouble accepting him as an incarnation.

Madhvacharya accepts Aswathama as an avatar of Lord Shiva. And because Madhvacharya is known to have been very, very meticulous when it comes to pramana, I have no reason to doubt it.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

I understand, but this should give happiness to the devotees, if I am not mistaken. That's what I am asking, whether devotees have experienced the transcendental bliss of serving and pleasing the Lord.

Dear Devotees,

Are you happy?

I don't mean happiness that depends on a certain fulfillment or object, but happiness that comes from within, happiness that comes with an increasing love for Krishna. Obviously, only this type of happiness can be proof that our bhakti for Krishna is genuine. That's why I am asking whether any devotee actually feels that strange kind of happiness, happiness born of love of God, happiness that has no cause.

Serious and honest answers only, please. Let's discuss this.

Here is my response:

BULLSHIT -- oh, and lots more cow shit!

Don't talk your crap to me! I wasn't born yesterday Habibi!

I hope to cover you in cow dung and look foward to your thanks.

I know the conclusion and the purports of Vedanta!

We know the conclusion and the purports of Vedanta!

Pay your respects to me from afar, and thus be a rightious man.

Talk like a prat and you show your true colors.

Yall ain't fooling us.

 

the servant of Krishna's Devotees,

Bhaktajan

You're a highly disturbed man. Please chant Hare Krishna!

It will be interesting to see how our sanskrit scholar twists 1.3.28 to avoid accepting the supremacy of Sri Krsna.

The Lord and His incarnations are one, so even if Krishna is the incarnation of Vishnu, it'd still make Him Supreme. So there's no problem either way, and Krishna's Supremacy remains intact.

Just to give a balanced view here, aside from Gaudiya Vaishnavam, every other Vaishnava school, including Dvaita and Vishishta Advaita, believes that Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu. I think GV is the only Vaishnava school to believe that Vishnu/Narayana is subordinate to Krishna, while ALL VAISHNAVA Schools consider them to be one.

As one can see, it's not just "Hinduism" which believes that Krishna is an incarnation of Vishnu, but all Vaishnava systems save GV. Not that I am saying it's right or wrong, but giving a proper perspective on this.

Rejecting the goals of the polytheists and monists is essential for one wishing to enter in to devotional service. This is not sectarianism it is common sense.

Those rejecting christ will also argue that it's not sectarianism but common sense to reject it for one wishing to enter into devotional service. As you can see, two can play this game. Anyway, Happy New Year, Theist.

This is precisely what I am talking about. We DO expect to achieve something tangible from the execution of the devotional service - we are expecting our consciousness to change, and become purified. At least that is the motivation of ordinary devotees like myself who are not yet purified. Pure devotees just want to serve, and do not care even about their own purification.

 

So lets talk about the expectations in the realm of changes in consciousness and our purification.

By 'change in consciousness', do you mean moving to a higher level, or something of the sort? If so, that's the kind of change I haven't noticed in many people, unfortunately. By change, most people refer to superficial changes like abstinence from meat, and so on, usually OUTER changes.

Hardly have I come across any person claiming to have changed within, or having attained a higher level of consciousness. Maybe, this is why people give up, it's because changes don't affect the core of their being, and they simply remain on the surface.

Jesus has an answer to your every question

Suuure, he's got an answer for everything, ranging from why his followers went on crusades to witch hunting to genocides and inquisition, and the rest. Let's stop kidding ourselves, please. Jesus has done more harm than good, and the sooner so-called Vaishnavas get rid of this 'Jesus preached KC' line, the better it's for Mahaprabhu's movement.

I have known shvu through this board for years and respect his interest in the spiritual side of life. During this time we have had numerous exchanges.

 

I am finding your faultfinding rather annoying.

Totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

So you say but then who are you? Did you create this forum? Prabhupada spoke of Jesus. Would you invite him to leave also?

You're not Prabhupada. At any rate, he wasn't destroying a beautiful vaishnava forum with a plethora of posts on Mary, Holy Ghost, whatever. So your comparison is ludicrous.

I fully understand that Catholicism is "not working" for many of us, particularly in the industrialized nations. However, it is thriving in Africa, India and in non industrialized nations.

 

Not because Indians and Africans are interested in Catholicism, lol.

The only reason it's thriving in these nations is because these nations are poor, and are being exploited by missionaries, give them bread and ask them to convert, big deal.

Then don't discuss it. But if others want to then why should anyone interfer?

Why would anyone interfere? Simple, because this is NOT the place to discuss Jesus, go to christian forum if you want to discuss Jesus, Mary, Holy Ghost, and the rest. It's that simple.

Dodge. That was a challenge for you to back up you accusation with a factual example.

 

I understand though. It's hard to talk with your foot in your mouth.

 

That is why it is best to have the example before you accuse.

 

Or as Bod Dylan put it, "I always know my song well before I sing it."

Are you even reading the threads and posts that you're asking for factual example? Go through the first page of "spiritual discussions", and you'll get all the evidence you'll ever need.

I personally agree with this person. I see a LOT of Christian messages and Jesus talk on here... And while I accept the divinity of Christ and think it's a valid path, it's not the path I come here to discuss. I come here to discuss Sanatan Dharma, Tantra, Shakti Sadhana, etc. I accept all things in all of the world to be honest, it all has a place. However I just think that there's a LOT of Christian stuff going on. And I am new here, so it may not matter much what I say...

 

However I don't come here to discuss Christ, or catholicism or anything like that. I have Mother Mary hanging right next to my Mother Kali...

 

But the point is, there are some people on here, though I wont mention names who seem to think that Jesus must be accepted, and other instances where irrelevant comments have been made that include Jesus and Mary where someone may be talking about something completely different. I dont' want to get into too much detail with this because I really hate to complain... But for a Sanatan Dharma, and Indian based spirituality forum there's a LOT of Jesus talk going on here.

 

I came to my path because I was frankly tired of the Christian one. I do not like preachy people, whether it is Krishna or Christ being preached as the absolute way, truth and light for all people and that all other paths are wrong. Not saying this is happening here per se, but there's is definatley some preachy preachy secretarian stuff going on. And of course it's welcome to go on, and like I said I am brand new here, I always have the option of leaving if I dont like anything. But I do like this place, and it's not enough to make me leave.

 

It doesen't bother me so much because I just ignore it. And like I said I accept all paths as equal... But it just seems very out of place to be preaching Christ here. I mean there's a whole post about Jesus being the REASON for the SEASON. As an American surrounded by preachy Christians, this is really not what I come on here to read. This person is right, this board has some serious Christian undertones for a board based on the Dharma, Sadhanas, and other such things.

 

I have a pretty good feeling that this post is going to be extremely misunderstood, so I am ready for that.

 

Now I will say in defense of it, it's beautiful that our path is accepting enough to allow other paths be discussed here, and on this hand I am almost glad to see it. So really my position is neutral. I just wanted to say that this person is not totally off base with what they are saying, and of course I have a tendency to ramble, so HERE WE ARE.

Good. We need more people like you to provide an honest opinion on how things are moving here. Only based on that, we can make changes for the better. Thanks again for NOT denying the obvious, as Theist has done.

Give one example of somebody doing this.

The people who're doing this, will definitely ask this question, so let's wait and see how many people turn up for the show, as you've done.

Dear Friends,

This is one of few Vaishnava forums around, but I find many Christians shoving Jesus down our throats, saying a true Vaishnava has to accept him. Let's say this person was real. But that doesn't mean one should accept him, in order to be vaishnava. It's ridiculous. To be Vaishnava, you have to worship Vishnu, follow Vaishnava Scriptures, and so on, where's the rule that says one has to believe in Jesus to be Vaishnava? It makes little sense.

The people on this forum who say a true vaishnava must accept Jesus...why can't these ppl go to christian forums and tell them that in order to be a true christian, they must accept Krishna and Gita? You'll be banned immediately. But here, the legendary vaishnava tolerance has been misused by the christians posing as Vaishnavas, constantly talking about Mary, Jesus etc., when it's totally irrelevant to Vaishnavism.

I request Christians to stop this crusade. If Christianity fascinates you so much, then pl revert to Christianity, and stop bothering vaishnavas on this board.

T

Mayavadi- a person who thinks everything is one and the goal of life is to merge within the impersonal Brahman

Where did Shvu or any other member mention mayavada? This thread is about labels, but most HKs think anyone who isn't HK must be mayavadi. I find this very annoying, despite being a Vaishnava myself. This attitude is very similar to Christians calling Krishna 'a demon and a womanizer.'

Unlike many other religious texts, the account of Christ's teachings (Gospels) are non violent.

[url="http://www.catholicdestination.com/article_info.php?articles_id=36"]

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword." Mathew 10.34

"For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" Mathew 10.35

All this makes Jesus look violent, nothing peaceful here?

Christ's teachings are devotional not the poison spewed forth by 95% of the so-called "hindu" poly-theists and monists.

Christ's teaching, which resulted in crusades, slavery, and the rest, is NOT poison, then? I am shocked!

Well, I could ask you the same question. This forum is about Hinduism, with an acknowledged predominantly Vaishnava leaning. There is no purpose, at the end of the day, for talks on Christ or Christianity to take place here.

It's ok for Christians/others to start threads on Jesus, Mohammed, Mary, Holy Ghost, and glorify them, even though this is a Vaishnava forum. Vaishnavas don't mind. But they DO mind, and will call you names-mayavadi, sleepervadi etc. etc.-if you dare to speak of another school within Vaishnavism. Does this sound crazy and hypocritical? Perhaps, but then this is a vaishnava forum.

The only evil that exists is in the mind of humans. The only fault is in the mind of humans. When you have evil and fault in your own mind then you see evil and fault in everything that is not your own. We live in an age of darkness, the Kali Yuga, whether you like it or not. I personally feel that the reason for all the strife and discord and terror is because we are ever closer to dissolution. God's will, in action. When entire galaxies are sucked up into black holes that may seem violent and terrible too, but it happens. The negative aspects of creation are just as much part of God as all the positive. I see no distinction.

If you see no distinction, you wouldn't mind writing your property in my name, then, would you? Seriously, though, what you suggest is illogical. Whether or not you have evil in your mind, evil DOES exist in this world. Murder, rape, terrorism, war etc. are not mental projections, they're concrete facts. All this talk about our evil minds projecting evil is fine, as long as your loved ones don't suffer. If your mom or bro or someone close to you dies in war or terrorism, then we'll see whether or not you stick to the same views.