talasiga

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

For certain I cannot place someone into my heart to sport any lila with Hari. Therefore I am heartless! I am not a mukta.

A mukta is someone who is liberated to a point

Where no defintions will fit him/her.

(Ahem ! Such is my definition !

OOps )

Valaya:

Concerning equilibrium though, according to my own limited

understanding and painful/pleasureable personal experiences,

there simply is no `balance` in LOVE.

Satyaraj:

Now we are trying to describe a kind of experience that

sruti classifies as ‘ananda.’ One may translate

it as ‘bliss’ and that kind of ‘love’ that you are

referring to is actually a limb of that bliss

that may be also called ‘prema’ by Gaudiyas.

Concerning the equilibrium, that ananda is also part

of the Ultimate Reality among with sat and cit.

So, existence, knowledge and bliss are the components

of that Ultimate Reality, that I prefer to call Hari,

that are always in an Absolute equilibrium.

Talasiga:

When Valaya speaks of a Love which has no balance,

which is beyond equilibrium, surely it insinuates

a wholeness beyond which nothing exists:

that is, if nothing can exist outside it,

nothing can balance it or unbalance it,

for all is within it. It is not relative,

but Absolute.

That Love is beyond description - therefore the "neti neti"

not this, not this) of Vedaanta. However the experience

of It by humanity can be described as "sat-chid-aanand"

- "being consciousness bliss" or "existence knowing bliss"

and the most comprehensive experience of that Love

obtains the description "sat-chid-aanand-vigraha"

or "existence knowing bliss with form"

(IE existence knowing bliss in differentiation).

Therefore one may discern that Love is not just

a characteristic of some Absolute. It is the very

nature of the Absolute. Love is not an aspect

of bliss (aanand) but its raison d'etre itself.

Bliss is the result of the existential consciousness

of Love.

Originally posted by suryaz:

The "eternity" ......bit - that you will not prove

 

Can Suryaz prove otherwise ?

Originally posted by valaya:

My definition of soul would be: The inner eternally concious essence that gives life to the outer body.

You have given a definition of the soul

as eternally conscious lifegiving

essence but giving definitions can be seen

to be simply skirting the issue.

For instance, if this definition is acceptable

then the question, Who is the soul of Radha ?

must become

What/Who is the eternally conscious

lifegiving essence of Radha ?

Now we are back again at the more fundamental

threshold question,

What is the eternally conscious

lifegiving essence ?

- are you going to answer circuituously

that "it is the soul" ?

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-09-2001).]

Originally posted by valaya:

.........

Does any of this make any sense to anyone? ..........

..................

This thread is entitled `Who is the Soul of Radha?` RR

 

 

For me,

most of what you write makes sense.

Sometimes I may not agree with you

and at times your sentiments may burst

the holding capacity of the thread,

but generally your comments come across

to me as thoughtful, sincere and written with care.

On the question: "who is the soul of Radha ?"

I would have thought that, before we venture with that,

a more fundamental question, which must first be answered,

is, "Who (or, What) is the soul ?"

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-08-2001).]

Talasiga:

On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary

peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad

(Om poornamadah poornamidam......)

which turns on the intuition of

the Absolute being always Absolute

despite absolute derivations.

Satyaraj: By following the reasoning above, the Ferry, the Ferryman and Radha are Absolute in spite of absolute derivations. As, “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes,” isn’t sayujiya itself a constant game of to leave, to remember and to reach?

Valaya: Absolutely!...I think...

Talasiga:

Yes, I mean, who would engage in the ecstasy

of remembrance when the one who is to be remembered

is within presence ? Does not rememberance

require separation,

if not <u>actual</u>, then, at least <u>apparent</u> ?

Originally posted by talasiga:

The ferry of devotion

finds Radha waiting

at every shore

 

 

IMPLICATION 8:

Is the Ferry circling

at the One Dock

As the Dancer spins

at the One Shrine ?

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Satyaraj: “Hari is a joker, a player, He sports His lilas as He likes.” Not only great landings, but even great seaings. Someone once has waited for Hari for many Kalpas into the bottom of the sea only to fight with Him! He did known that Hari has already hidden into his heart. The most amazing point is that he was killed by Hari! How could Hari kill him and at the same time remain into his heart forever? Was He already there and ready to leave?

Talasiga: Yes, let us look at at Mundak Upanishad 2:2:4

"Om - the mystic syllable - is the bow;

the self within, the arrow;

and Brahman, the target.

One should hit that mark

with an undistracted mind,

and like the arrow, become one with It."

(Swami Sarvananda translation, Sri Ramakrishna Math,

ISBN 81-7120-159-8)

We already know that Om is the Brahman but here,

if we accept this mantra, Om is the bow and Brahman

the target. Just like your questions we may also ask,

"How can Hari be the bow and also always the target ?

Is He already in the bow ready to leave it ?"

On this inquiry it may be helpful to refer to the preliminary

peace mantra in the Eeshaa Upanishad

(Om poornamadah poornamidam......)

which turns on the intuition of

the Absolute being always Absolute

despite absolute derivations.

In this way, on a lighter note, we may also come to:

Originally posted by talasiga:

The ferry of devotion

finds Radha waiting

at every shore

 

 

IMPLICATION 7:-

The Ferryman does

Leave her

to remember her

to reach her.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-07-2001).]

from thread

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000641.html

"When you are slandered..... pray to God for them." St. John of Kronstadt.

______________________________

PRAYER 8

Praise Mountain of Mercy !

Grant that I may always

Forgive the world

For I could never forgive You !

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by shvu:

Lord Sandwich? cool....

I did not know sandwich was the name of a person.

 

Yes,

see John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich:-

http://lycos.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0843428.html

Satyaraj: This Waitress can give us poison!

Talasiga: Yes !

However, methinks, poison in a homeopathic dose .....

Satyaraj: Won’t it be a romantic end, or a funny beginning?

Talasiga: Indeed !

On the question of endings and beginnings,

please consider:-

Originally posted by talasiga:

The ferry of devotion

finds Radha waiting

at every shore

 

 

IMPLICATION 6:

However great our landing

She is already there

Ready to leave it !

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Who is The Soul of Radha?

 

 

There is a shorter,

simpler and more basic,

question in this.

Why not ask that first ?

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by jijaji:

JIJAJI:

talasiga says "why the need to establish his divinity"

That sounds like an outsiders question? I don't get it....?

 

The whole sentence was:

"One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it."

This TURNS on the ISSUE of the RELEVANCE of his divinity or

lack of divinity to our spiritual life given that:-

"......one may note that nowhere in His Sheekshaashtakam

does Mahaprabhu state that recognising his divinity

is a requisite for sucessfully chanting the Holy Name

or generally embracing the devotional path.

(Nor does He state that ascertaining any lack of his divinity

is a requisite either)."

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-05-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Very beautiful indeed, but no serious theology can be done to follow a poetic expression. What to say a philosophical system.

Yes, even

the poems of Vedaanta

(meaning "the end of knowledge")

are not a systematic theology to raise a philosophy

but shrooti-s to disprove what we know

to bring to an end our weight

of knowledge

Ananta Harih Om Tat Sat

and Good Night Friends .....

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by shvu:

Who is the soul of Radha? I have long since wondered about this.

 

 

Yes

some here will have

a readymade textbook

answer to your question.

Let us prefer to relish it

without quotations

this poem of a

question.

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Talasiga: One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it.

Shvu: In one word, politics.

Talasiga: So as you are declining his divinity, according to your own response as above, your position is also "political".

Q.E.D.

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

But if we agree with that premise, jivas like me and you are also Hari and should be worshiped as Hari, as they also should have all of Hari’s attributes. Would you follow this doctrine?

Hari is not obliged

to do anything

or not to do anything

Satyaraj: This Hari is not attained by the efforts

of my mind and intelligence, but due His own free will,

that we may call His Grace.

Is this your Radha?

Talasiga: Accepted in the right mood,

what a haunting question ! Thank you.

In return, I offer the following for your consideration .................

Originally posted by talasiga:

 

The ferry of devotion

finds Radha waiting

at every shore

 

IMPLICATION 5:

After the crossing over the water

Will the Waitress quench our thirst ?

Or will she greet our safest passage

By drowning us all with her tears ?

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

Undoubtedly Caitanya has presented many characteristics of a mukta, as well as Jesus, Ramakrishna, Ramanauja, San Juan de La Cruz, Mirabai and many others. His Siksastakam is the utmost expression of his satya-sankalpa feelings and it is to be considered as perfect as any sruti text. Ramananda-samvada describes the evolution a jiva until the attainment of a satya-sankalpa like his, and it is also a master piece of a very exalted mukta.

 

This is a beautifully broad summary.

Also, one may note that nowhere in His Sheekshaashtakam

does Mahaprabhu state that recognising his divinity

is a requisite for sucessfully chanting the Holy Name

or generally embracing the devotional path.

(Nor does He state that ascertaining any lack of his divinity

is a requisite either).

One wonders why the need to establish Mahaprabhu's divinity or to decline it.

In light of this, surely, any divinity that a close

and loving devotee may sense, intuit or realise

must be a wholly private matter between the intimate devotee

and his Lord and not at all relevant for the public promotion of His Mission.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-04-2001).]

Prayer 7

Home of the homeless

Oh My Heart !

When will you host

the Greatest Abode ?

(see also:

http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000019,html )

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-02-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa

<u>on 19 Sept 2001 at 10:05AM</u>:

So, I actually find your smrti very truthful,

as the ferry of devotion my find a Radha

created by your mind and faith,

but not Hari...

 

Dear Satyaraja

I am delighted to see you exloring in this way !

Please apply this approach to your own earlier statements:

" Yes, those experiences and realizations will ferry us

to another shore. Will my Hari be there?

My heart is longing to meet Him face to face!!!"

(<u>Satyaraja posting 7 July 4:24Am</u>)

So, I actually find your statements very truthful,

as the ferry of your "experiences and realizations"

(as you say) may find an uncertainty about Hari

(as you ask, "Will my Hari be there?")

created by your mind and intellect,

but not Hari...

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-02-2001).]

Originally posted by talasiga:

The ferry of devotion

finds Radha waiting

at every shore

 

IMPLICATION 4:

The Ferryman plies His vessel

from Devotion to Devotion

The traveller need have no goal

but to relish present Company.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-01-2001).]

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

It is said that some muktas can really hear the “Symphony of the Spheres.” ....... As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a mukta.

 

!!!

compare with:-

"It is said that some humans can see the aura.

As I cannot, it is clear that I am not a human."

Animesh, is this what is called

a "false syllogism" ?

Originally posted by Satyaraja dasa:

It is said that some muktas can really hear the “Symphony of the Spheres.” That’s to say, they are hearing the indescribable melody of Hari’s lilas of creation. That is indeed a good question: “Do you hear the world ringing ?”

 

Yes, they hear the world ringing

But do they answer it ?

Methinks, they are otherwise Engaged.....

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by dasanudas:

What argument can defeat silence?

 

 

Yes

So many will argue about it

None may argue with it

The glorious moon rises in silence

The oceans do sigh in wonder

The sands on the shore are singing

Do you hear the world ringing ?

.

.

.

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

Originally posted by leyh:

It seems to me that you are interested in conflict and not discussion.

 

 

No no no -

He is intersted in the Sanskrit and then the discussion.....

------------------

talasiga@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by talasiga (edited 10-01-2001).]