atanu

Namaskar, I see you have assumed the name of Lord Shiva. Well. Mandukya Upanishad 7. The Fourth is thought of as that which is not conscious of the internal world, nor conscious of the external world, nor conscious of both the worlds, nor dense with consciousness, nor simple consciousness, nor unconsciousness, which is unseen, actionless, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable, indescribable, whose proof consists in the identity of the Self (in all states), in which all phenomena come to a cessation, and which is unchanging shivoadvaitam. That is the Self; that is to be known. Narayana is known to feel lonely. Can this be true of the Turiya Self? Infact Narayana and Rudra are very well defined as below: Mahanarayana Upanishad dvaavi.nsho.anuvaakaH . namo hiraNyabaahave hiraNyavarNaaya hiraNyaruupaaya hiraNyapataye.ambikaapataya umaapataye pashupataye namo namaH .. 1.. trayovi.nsho.anuvaakaH . R^ita{\m+} satyaM paraM brahma purushha .n kR^ishhNapi~Ngalam.h .uurdhvareta.n viruupaaksha.n vishvaruupaaya vai namo namaH .. 1.. chaturvi.nsho.anuvaakaH . sarvo vai rudrastasmai rudraaya namo astu . purushho vai rudraH sanmaho namo namaH .vishvaM bhuutaM bhuvana.n chitraM bahudhaa jaata.n jaayamaana.n cha yat.h . sarvo hyeshha rudrastasmai rudraaya namo astu .. 1.. trayodasho.anuvaakaH . sahasrashiirshha.n deva.n vishvaaksha.n vishvashambhuvam.h . vishva.n naaraayaNa.n devamaksharaM paramaM prabhum.h .. 1.. vishvataH parama.n nitya.n vishva.n naaraayaNa{\m+} harim.h . vishvamevedaM purushhastadvishvamupajiivati .. 2.. pati.n vishvasyaatmeshvara{\m+} shaashvata{\m+} shivamachyutam.h .naaraayaNaM mahaaj~neya.n vishvaatmaanaM paraayaNam.h .. 3.. naaraayaNaH paraM brahma tattva .n naaraayaNaH paraH . End of citation Advaitins see no difference between param brahma tattwa Narayana and param brahma Purusha ambikaapataya umaapataye pashupataye Ritam satyaM paraM brahma viruupaaksha vishvaruupaaya Lord Shiva, who is here AHAM -- a manifestation of of shivoadvaitam Self. Param Brahma tattva can only constitute Param Brahma and Param Brahma tattva can only be present in Param Brahma Purusha. With a apriori view that Narayana is different from Shiva and who is different from Vishnu, you will never be able to reconcile many Veda samhita verses. The truth is one shivoadvaita OM, which can be viewed as AUM (in three states), but the states are not the real beings. The Self is ONE and always real. It cannnot be cut. It is One but appears as if divided in bodies. It is known as param purusha, param brahman or mahesvara. All terms mean the same indescribable nameless Self. OM

The word is tamiishvaraaNaaM -- the Lord of consciousness, the shushupti. And you people who think Tamasha is dark are ignorant. Tamasha is full of light not known to senses. The following lines in the nR^isimha-tApanIya Upanishad : eSha dehAnte tamasaH paramaM dhAma prApnuyAt.h | yatra virajo nR^isimho bhAsate tatra upAsate | tasadR^ishA munayaH The shushupti is Lord Pragnya -- Sarvesvara. The Turiya is the Self.

STORIES ARE WHAT YOU ARE POSTING WITHOUT KNOWING THE LEELA FULLY. SHIVA RUDRA IS BHAGAWAN, AS SHOWN BELOW FROM VEDA. TRYING TO FIND APARADHA HERE IS MAHAPAPA. Shri Rudram 1.10 <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p> pramuJNcha dhanvanastvamubhayorArtniyorjyAm.h | yAshcha te hasta ishhavaH parA tA bhagavo vapa || <o:p></o:p> (Shri Rudram: anuvAka 1; Rik 10) <o:p></o:p> bhagavo - O Bhagavan <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> O Bhagavan (God) Rudra! You are endowed with great lordship and worship (by others). Untie the bow string from the two ends of Your bow. Abandon the arrows in Your hand. Lord Krishna is truly that. The way you know Lord Krishna is ignorance. First fully understand what Krishna says or show evidence of your claims from Vedas Samhitas. Svet. Up <o:p></o:p> 6.7 tamiishvaraaNaaM paramaM maheshvara.n ta.n devataanaaM parama.n cha daivatam.h . patiM patiinaaM paramaM parastaad.h\- vidaama devaM bhuvaneshamiiDyam.h .. 7.. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> 6.7 WE WILL KNOW THIS MIGHTIEST ONE WHO IS FAR ABOVE ALL THE MIGHTY – THIS <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comSUMMIT</st1:City> OF THE GODS AND THEIR GODHEAD, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, WHO TOWERETH HIGH ABOVE ALL <st1:place w:st=" /><st1:City w:st="on">SUMMIT</st1:City> AND GREATNESSES. LET US LEARN OF GOD FOR HE IS THIS UNIVERSES' MASTER AND ALL SHALL ADORE HIM. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Shruti ParamaM parastaad is reserved for Bhagawan Shivah, one beyond comparison. Only very immature can say that Bhagwan is superior to this and that. Om

Nice stories. One who does not know Lord Krishna as unborn Mahesvara in reality, does not know. Om Namah Shivayya

Rudram and RV verses are translated as per your wish and the translations are wrong since the following verses already clarify who is in the Hridaya of all: From Yajur Veda Namo hridayyaya cha niveshpya ya cha Salutations to Him who is in hridayyaya and in the grace. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> Namo vah kirikebhyo devanam hrudayou bhyo Salutations to you who showers grace and who dwell in the hearts of the Gods. Rudra is the Hridaya and He resides there like lion. Sama Veda XIX Soma Pavamana 1. Father of holy hymns, Soma flows onward, the father of the earth, father of heaven.Father of Agni, Surya's generator, the father who begat Indra and Vishnu. Param Atma has no progenitor. I am sorry. Sama Veda XI Indra ------3. Vishnu in the lofty ruling power, Varuna, Mitra sing thy praise: In thee the Maruts' company have great delight.

Oh yes. You do not understand Self. Instead of interpreting based on puranic concepts embedded in thoughts have an open mind. Shiva is the Self of all, including Vishu. From Yajur Veda Namo hridayyaya cha niveshpya ya cha Salutations to Him who is in hridayyaya and in the grace. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Namo vah kirikebhyo devanam hrudayou bhyo Salutations to you who showers grace and who dwell in the hearts of the Gods. That Self is worshipped by all. When one worships an external god, one does it for the sake of Self only. Though Lord Krishna says "I am the Self Arjuna", the mind does not give up the externalities. Om Namah Shivayya

Funny, that I cannot see Rudra in the Sanskrit citation. Om Namah Shivayya

Namaskar Yes, the Self is non-dual. It is evident in even deep sleep when senses are absorbed in pure bliss Pragnya, who is Sarvesvara. His face (form) is thoughts (Taijassa), which gives rise to agnivaisvanaro --- apparently many but truly ONE. 13.17 Avibhaktam cha bhooteshu vibhaktamiva cha sthitam; Bhootabhartru cha tajjneyam grasishnu prabhavishnu cha. 13. 17. And undivided, yet He exists as if divided in beings; He is to be known as the supporter of beings; He devours and He generates also. 13.23 Upadrashtaanumantaa cha bhartaa bhoktaa maheshwarah; Paramaatmeti chaapyukto dehe’smin purushah parah. 13.23. The Supreme Soul in this body is also called the spectator, the permitter, the supporter, the enjoyer, the great Lord and the Supreme Self. 18.20 Sarvabhooteshu yenaikam bhaavamavyayameekshate; Avibhaktam vibhakteshu tajjnaanam viddhi saattwikam. 18.20. That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure). 18.21 Prithaktwena tu yajjnaanam naanaabhaavaan prithagvidhaan; Vetti sarveshu bhooteshu tajjnaanam viddhi raajasam. 18.21. But that knowledge which sees in all beings various entities of distinct kinds as different from one another—know thou that knowledge to be Rajasic (passionate). Om

Dear Jn Das Ji Namaskar, What makes you think that I think that Bhagwan's form is imaginary? We know that He is none other than Mahesvara. Some people however think that there are many mahesvaras. The point I made earlier was that there has to be a seer to cognize. Who is that seer? Knowing the seer, one automatically loses the doership. Because Bhagwan himself is the seer. In so-called you there is no faculty that can cognise. A dead body cannot say "I". It cannot say "Let me live". Now check up who says "I" in you? And then let us exchange notes, whether it has form or not. But the consciousness can manifest any form. That is all. And Turiya Brahman has all powers to enjoy and know all states (Pragnya, Shushupti, and Jagrat) without losing Turiya state. Experience it and then comment. What is the use of theory? Regards

Namaskar JN Das ji. Namaskar Ganesh Prasad Ji One who has known the Self He can only love the sarva -- the Saguna with all variety, else there would never be sama drishti. Some do not comprehend what Lord means by Anya Devata. Such proclaim haughtily “My love for God only is correct”, without knowing the ONE who is capable of saying “I exist”. Do you know the one who cognizes others? Do you know the one without whom one cannot say “I” or “I love God”? BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1 FOURTH BRAHMANA. 10. ------- Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men should know this. End of citation. So, higher devotees worship and meditate with their mind on the Self. If “I am Atanu” knowledge is not there then “I love Lord” cannot arise. Love is non-existent then. If “I Exist” knowledge does not exist then “I am Atanu” does not exist. Then who loves whom? Further, if the Pragnya that is aware “I exist” is not there then existence itself vanishes. And finally, if the Turiya-Self does not exist then the Pragnya is not there. Mandukya Upanishad sarvaM hyetad.h brahmaayamAtmA brahma so.ayamaatmaa chatushhpaat.h .. 2.. yatra supto na kaJNchana kaamaM kaamayate na kaJNchana svapnaM pashyati tat.h sushhuptam.h . sushhuptasthaana ekiibhuutaH praGYaanaghana evaanandamayo hyaanandabhuk.h cheto mukhaH praaGYastR^itiiyaH paadaH .. 5.. eshha sarveshvaraH eshha sarvaGYa eshho.antaryaamyeshha yoniH sarvasya prabhavaapyayau hi bhuutaanaam.h .. 6.. naantaHpraGYaM na bahishhpraGYaM nobhayataHpraGYaM na praGYAnaghanaM na praGYaM naapraGYam.h | adR^ishhTamavyavahaaryamagraahyamalakshaNaM achintyamavyapadeshyamekaatmapratyayasaaraM prapaJNchopashamaM shaantaM shivamadvaitaM chaturthaM manyante sa aatmaa sa viGYeyaH .. 7.. amaatrashchaturtho.avyavahaaryaH prapaJNchopashamaH shivo.advaita evamoN^kaara Atmaiva saMvishatyAtmanA.a.atmAnaM ya evaM veda .. 12.. 2. All this is verily, Brahman. This self is Brahman. This same self has four quarters 5. Where one, being fast asleep, does not desire any desire whatsoever and does not see any dream whatsoever, that is deep sleep. The third quarter is prajna, whose sphere is the state of deep sleep, who has become one, who is verily, a mass of cognition, who is full of bliss and who experiences bliss, whose face is thought. 6. This is the lord of all, this is the knower of all, this is the inner controller; this is the source of all; this is the beginning and the end of beings. 7. Turiya is not that which cognises the internal, not that which cognises the external, not what cognises both of them, not a mass of cognition, not cognitive, not non-cognitive. It is unseen, incapable of being spoken of, unnameable, the essence of the knowledge of the one self, that into which the world is resolved, the peaceful, the benign, the non-dual, such, they think, is the fourth quarter. He is the self; He is to be known. 12. The fourth is that which has no elements, which cannot be spoken of, into which the world is resolved, benign, non-dual. Thus the syllable aum is the very self. He who knows it thus enters the self with his self. So, without the shivoadvaitam Turiya - the indivisible Self, which has Pragnya, who only cognizes “I am”, no love is possible. He is the source of my “I”. How can “This Atanu” love a third object and say “I love God?”. The Self is the Yoni of Brahman who is Param. But the Self is beyond understanding and beyond the definition of Param. Pragnya is Brahman and Pragnya is Sarvesvara. But shivoadvaitam is the Self --- one whole. Pragnya is rooted in Turiya and Mind has sphurana from Sarvesvara Pragnya but the mind is not him. And limited mind thinks “I am something”, Although Mind has no intelligence apart from the ONE to effect cognition, it says “I am something”; “I love Lord”; “I am only correct”; “Others are deluded”. And funny that such a mind does not know the “I”. Rishi Yajnvalkya taught Maitreyi: It is for the love of Self that one loves one's wife and everything else (including an image of God). If one does not have the wisdom to understand Rishi Yajnavalka, how will one understand Lord Krishna’s leela? How one comprehends the love of 16,000 gopis for the Lord and Lord’s love for them? Gopi’s surely do not indulge in illicit relationship by leaving their husbands at home and engaging in amorous past times with the Lord. All love Lord - the Self. Shiva burnt Manmath who appeared as lust. But He re-installed Manmath as love in everyone’s heart. And He is everyone’s heart. All this is for explanation. But, there are no two individuals. Only Lord as Love is there. May wisdom be with you. In summary, without knowing the Self which empowers one with awareness of “I am”, love to an imaginary external God is that only – an imagination that I am worshipping. BRIHADARANYAKA-UPANISHAD Part 1 FOURTH BRAHMANA. 10. ------- Now if a man worships another deity, thinking the deity is one and he another, he does not know. He is like a beast for the Devas. For verily, as many beasts nourish a man, thus does every man nourish the Devas. If only one beast is taken away, it is not pleasant; how much more when many are taken! Therefore it is not pleasant to the Devas that men should know this.

Unlike you, I do not request you to stop. I request you to continue so that the truth is known and you and your ilk's vile is exposed. You are debasing the Vedas. **** the upaakyaanam quoted says that Visnu's came to Indra's help with which Indra killed Rudradeva.******* YV iv. i. 2. d In each need more strong, In each contest, we invoke, As friends, Indra to aid us. e Hastening [1] come hither, trampling the enemy, Come with wondrous skill from the leadership of Rudra;

YV iv. 4. 9. (Thou art) Prajapati in mind, when come to the Soma; the creator in the consecration; ------ VISNU WHEN BEING TAKEN DOWN; ----------- RUDRA WHEN OFFERED; ------------- THE HEAVEN WHEN ARRIVED AT COMPLETION. Yajur Veda iv. 4. 8. (Thou I art) all overcoming through Agni; self-ruling through the sun; lord of strength through might; creator with the bull; This says all. There is ONE GOD, who is “I” of all (including Visnu). And Maha Narayana Upanishad states what is “I”. Maha-Narayana Upanishad Xxi-1: May the supreme who is the ruler of all knowledge, controller of all created beings, the preserver of the vedas and the one overlord of hiranyagarbha, be benign to me. I am the sadasiva described thus and denoted by pranava. I AM THE SADASIVA DESCRIBED THUS XXIV-1: All this verily is Rudra. To Rudra who is such we offer our salutation. We salute again and again that Being, Rudra, who alone is the light and the Soul of creatures. ----- XXV-1: We sing a hymn ------- who is dwelling in the heart. Indeed all this is Rudra. Salutations be to Rudra who is such. RUDRA, WHO ALONE IS THE LIGHT AND THE SOUL OF CREATURES AND WHO DWELLS IN THE HEART IS CALLED A JIVA BY THE CHILDISH AND IMMATURE. These fellows debase their own atma (self). THEY ARE DESCRIBED IN BHAGAVATAM: 33. Lord Girisa, exalted, self-satisfied persons who preach to the entire world think of your lotus feet constantly within their hearts. However, when persons who do not know your austerity see you moving with Uma, they misunderstand you to be lusty, or when they see you wandering in the crematorium they mistakenly think that you are ferocious and envious. Certainly they are shameless. They cannot understand your activities. THEY ARE CERTAINLY SHAMELESS. BHAGAVATAM SAYS IT.

Om Namah Sivayya This mysterious mind of Lord. Yes, It was atanu only. I do not know Sanskrit. But you are not wise. To my citation: RV Book 10 HYMN XCII. Visvedevas. 9 With humble adoration show this day your song of praise to mighty Rudra, Ruler of the brave: With whom, the Eager Ones, going their ordered course, he comes from heaven Self-bright, auspicious, strong to guard. 11 For these songs, the Earth and Heaven with their abundant seed, four-bodied Narasmsa, Yama, Aditi, God Tvastar Wealth-bestower, the Rbhuksanas, Rodasi, Maruts, Visnu, claim and merit praise. You have answered as below: "The coorect translation is given below. Note the eleventh verse. 10.092.09 Address praise today with reverence to Rudra the powerful destroyer of the heroes, (who is accompanied) by the mounted (Maruts), the granters of wishes, together with whom he, propitious, possessing kinsmen, besprinkles (the worshippers) from heaven. 10.092.11 They the heaven and earth, abounding with waters, the Nara_s'am.sa rite with its four fires, Yama, Aditi, the divine Tvas.t.a_, (Agni) the giver of wealth, the R.bhus, Rodasi_, the Maruts, and Vis.n.u are worshipped (by us)." Your translation will always remain coorect and will never become correct. God is mysterious. Hail Lord.

This Jigyasu will endorse what Madhavji and Ganeshprasad ji have stated above. One is not supposed to preach and teach about Brahman till one obtains the grace and realization. But since we are all on the path, I just write what I have learned – though mostly intellectually. In Rig Veda it is stated that the Universe is spandan in Brahman. I will post the verse when I find it. Namdeva has stated that only the name Keshava exists. My Guru says that nature of japa and the soul is same. Our eyes cannot see themselves without a mirror. Brahman is ONE so IT creates a mirror out of itself and sees himself variously as splendor. It is also stated in Upanishads that knowing Brahman all is known. Brahman is not known through intellectual reasoning but through direct experience. The consciousness “I”, its movement (Aditi), and the phenomenon (Visnu), together constitute one Brahman. Universe is nothing but Brahman. Some devotees fight over supremacy, impelled by ego driven beliefs, but until one has the experience of the source, its movement and the result as ONE, more and more questions will arise without answer. The sages who reach the summit do not argue but know that paths are many but the summit is one. Whether, at the summit, individuality remains or not is a mental question but the truth is that the sutratma who pervades everything is infinitely more beautiful than the individualities that it fosters. The nature of path of individuals differs, so only a master should preach and teach about the right path. But one thing is without controversy: Seek Brahman and all your queries will be answered. My best wishes on the path.

*********it's not me who's judging.. it is what they say that qualifies them as rascals or saints..************ You don't have the capacity to judge. As I have said earlier, matter in this thread and others leave no doubt as to who is what. Om Namah Sivayaa

**********••if your sages are cheating saying to people that they are the supreme lord and that they will regain that status following them they are not sages but ..... huge rascals.************************* It seems you are the sole genuine guru who has right to call others "huge rascals"

Dear Ganeshprasad ji This gigyasu/jigyasu is not me. I have realised the danger of using a unregistered pseudo name. Had i poted, i would have asked "how these happen?" and not "how these are happened?". Nevertheless, questions are nice?

“mahesvara means maha isvara.. great lord.. this is a name who si perfectly fit for krsna” My comment: No problem here from my side. But I also know that you have hierarchy in mind. ••hyerarchy or not... krsna is surely maha isvara” krsna is surely maha isvara --- Yes He is. ”So, this mahesvara is not the Mahesvara that I know, Isn’t it? How can there be two Mahesvaras? So, Mahesvara of Vedas and Upanishads is Maya. ••in this context krsna is speaking.. he's called sri bhagavan.. i do not see any other maha isvara in this context” ----in the american government context, the maha isvara is george bush” So, Krishna is maha isvara in the context of Gita only? So, while in USA you have to submit to George Bush in order to gain heaven. You don’t know what you think and speak. “But the truth is one. The truth cannot be Bheda at some time and Abheda at some other time. What is finally Abheda cannot be Bheda if not by Maya. ••this is word jugglery.. put the word "acynthya" before abheda and use a little logic... the reality cannot be dvaita, because god is everything.. but the reality cannot be advaita, because there's a clear distinction between us and supreme.. we can be illuded by maya, he is the source of maya's energy maybe we will understand better when we will be realized, but, for now, this is without doubt the truth” True, we will know (not understand) when we realize Mahesvara within. But Krishna saya those who are in doubt can not attain Me. And "acynthya" is such a doubt. We do not have any doubt. One does not understand on attaining Self Realization. One simply knows. You concede: “the reality cannot be dvaita, because god is everything” . If God is everything then where is the difference, in God? -- ”Why do you think that when I surrender to Krishna knowing Him to be the supreme (OK not my Mahesvara but your maha iswara only), I violate Advaita? This logic escapes me. ••because surrendering is opposite of merging... there's the action of surrendering, that is gradual and done through the procedure of karma(+bhakti) yoga, there's the subject krsna and the subject arjuna or the individual soul.... so there's three elements, not one element” Who said merging here? Your weak links are so open. You jump to words that have not been used. Without submission, God cannot be attained. The level of our submission is supreme. While being a dasa you still feel with pride that I am serving the Lord. Whereas the Lord clearly says: all acts are acts of Gunas. So, although you are acting impelled by Sattwik Guna (which no doubt is best), you still believe that you are serving and that goes against Krishna’s teachings. Those who have completed their Karma/Bhakti in this or previous lives can go to Jnana yoga. Lord says yogis remain in Him. I will use your translation: sarva-bhuta-sthitam yo mam bhajaty ekatvam asthitah sarvatha vartamano 'pi sa yogi mayi vartate SYNONYMS sarva-bhuta-sthitam--situated in everyone's heart; yah--he who; mam--unto Me; bhajati--serves in devotional service; ekatvam--oneness; asthitah--thus situated; sarvatha--in all respects; varta-manah--being situated; api--in spite of; sah--he; yogi--transcendentalist; mayi--unto Me; vartate--remains. TRANSLATION The yogi who knows that I and the Supersoul within all creatures are one worships Me and remains always in Me in all circumstances. Note “Remains always in me”. Krishna does not say that yogi surrenders at my feet and remains separate from me. One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). Bhagwan has said that He resides within everyone as Self. So, if after knowing the non-self nature of Aham and giving up pride-hatred etc., I surrender to the Self then am I violating the teachings? 10.20 I am the Self, O Gudakesa, dwelling in the hearts of all beings. I am the beginning and the middle and the end of all beings 15.5 The uneluded, those who are free from pride and ignorance, who have overcome the evil of attachment, who are ever devoted to the Self, who have turned away from desires and are entirely beyond the dualities of pleasure and pain, attain that imperishable state. One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). Please do not deride others who are also following Gita. You deride none but the Lord himself. “Many devotees who have submitted to Mahesvara (my Mahesvara) may be dualists or advaitins. How does submission contradict Advaita or prove dualism. ••again.. if you merge you cannot be submissive, simply because there's no more one to be submissed of” Again there is a proof of your biased mind. Where is the word merged above? “It also escapes my logic that how can there be two Mahesvaras? ••this word can be used in many context... great chief, or great controller is not an intimate name like govinda, gopala, syamasundara and so on. It is clear that the maha isvara of the gita is krsna, called, for example, also bhagavan. In other context we will see.. in the american government context, the maha isvara is george bush” Ha. George Bush also become maha iswarah from being president of America. Your understanding ------------. When Lord says He is Mahesvara he also says that He is eternal. Are you an Indian? Or are you a neophyte non-Hindu, Iswarah word cannot be used lightly and in a limited context only. ”be serious, do something for your spiritual life” One cannot but be serious about your lapses and your potential to misguide. You have not enlightened me as to why you do not argue with pure dualists?

My reference By devotion one truly understands what and who I am in essence. Having known Me in essence, one immediately merges into Me. (18.55) Your reference •••bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram SYNONYMS bhaktya--by pure devotional service; mam--Me; abhijanati--one can know; yavan--as much as; yah ca asmi--as I am; tattvatah--in truth; tatah--thereafter; mam--Me; tattvatah--by truth; jnatva--knowing; visate--enters; tat-anantaram--thereafter. TRANSLATION One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God. bhakti and merging cannot stand together... love means that two persons are different individuals and they relationate” My question Show where the Kingdom word in the translation has come from. I have joined the synonyms below: by pure devotional service; Me; one can know; as much as; as I am; in truth; thereafter; Me; by truth; knowing; enters; thereafter Unbiased readers may please like to parse the pieces and compare guest's (oops SP’s translation and the translation given by me. Your interpretation “upadrastanumanta ca bharta bhokta mahesvarah paramatmeti capy ukto dehe 'smin purusah parah SYNONYMS upadrasta--overseer; anumanta--permitter; ca--also; bharta--master; bhokta--supreme enjoyer; maha-isvarah--the Supreme Lord; parama-atma--Supersoul; iti--also; ca--and; api uktah--is said; dehe--in this body; asmin--this; purusah--enjoyer; parah--transcendental. TRANSLATION Yet in this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Supersoul. mahesvara means maha isvara.. great lord.. this is a name who si perfectly fit for krsna” My comment: No problem here from my side. But I also know that you have hierarchy in mind. So, this mahesvara is not the Mahesvara that I know, Isn’t it? How can there be two Mahesvaras? So, Mahesvara of Vedas and Upanishads is Maya. Your interpretation ”yo 'ntah-sukho 'ntar-aramas tathantar-jyotir eva yah sa yogi brahma-nirvanam brahma-bhuto 'dhigacchati SYNONYMS yah--one who; antah-sukhah--happy from within; antah-aramah--active within; tatha--as well as; antah-jyotih--aiming within; eva--certainly; yah--anyone; sah--he; yogi--mystic; brahma-nirvanam--liberated in the Supreme; brahma-bhutah--self-realized; adhigacchati--attains. TRANSLATION One whose happiness is within, who is active within, who rejoices within and is illumined within, is actually the perfect mystic. He is liberated in the Supreme, and ultimately he attains the Supreme. ..if you see the bhagavad gita as the whole you easily understand in this way” My comment: This is excellent. One who knows that there is Mahesvara within, where is the cause of unhappiness for him? I had reproduced The non-dualists, who adore Me as abiding in all beings, abide in Me irrespective of their mode of living. (6.31). My logic may be faulty but Krishna the Mahesvara cannot be wrong. Your reference “Chapter 6. Sankhya-yoga TEXT 31 sarva-bhuta-sthitam yo mam bhajaty ekatvam asthitah sarvatha vartamano 'pi sa yogi mayi vartate SYNONYMS sarva-bhuta-sthitam--situated in everyone's heart; yah--he who; mam--unto Me; bhajati--serves in devotional service; ekatvam--oneness; asthitah--thus situated; sarvatha--in all respects; varta-manah--being situated; api--in spite of; sah--he; yogi--transcendentalist; mayi--unto Me; vartate--remains. TRANSLATION The yogi who knows that I and the Supersoul within all creatures are one worships Me and remains always in Me in all circumstances. (gaudya vaishnavas are not dualist)” My comment: I know gaudya vaishnavas are not dualists. You are the same Bheda-Abheda. We had discussed a lot. But you started calling me Asura. But the truth is one. The truth cannot be Bheda at some time and Abheda at some other time. What is finally Abheda cannot be Bheda if not by Maya. But why do not you argue with pure Bhedas? Because, like you they also hold Krishna-Visnu as the Supreme; because the arguments stem not from logic or love for the Supreme but from faith that Visnu or Shiva is Supreme. Faith is good but it is in the mind and has to be transcended. Your reference: -- ”Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation TEXT 66 sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah SYNONYMS sarva-dharman--all varieties of religion; parityajya--abandoning; mam--unto Me; ekam--only; saranam--surrender; vraja--go; aham--I; tvam--you; sarva--all; papebhyah--from sinful reactions; moksayisyami--deliver; ma--not; sucah--worry. TRANSLATION Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear. how can you give an advaitist interpretation to such verse?” My comment: “Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear. “ What is non-advaitic about it? Advaitins consider Gita in Total to be an exposition of Advaita only. Why do you think that when I surrender to Krishna knowing Him to be the supreme (OK not my Mahesvara but your maha iswara only), I violate Advaita? This logic escapes me. Many devotees who have submitted to Mahesvara (my Mahesvara) may be dualists or advaitins. How does submission contradict Advaita or prove dualism. Bhagwan has also said: One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). And finally guest ji, It also escapes my logic that how can there be two Mahesvaras?

“Dear Atanu, you are still illiterate” Dear Raghu, I will prefer to remain illiterate rather than become deluded and dumb. In reply to: Rghu Ji Gita is the source of Advaita. You say: Not true. There is no Advaita in the Gita. I've studied it in the original Sanskrit. Have you? My comment: Your logic sense I admire. Friends just see this. There is no Advaita in the Gita. I've studied it in the original Sanskrit. Since, Raghu ji has studied Gita in original Sanskrit, so there is no advaita in the Gita. In reply to: You may try to mis-translate a few verses You say: You do not even know Sanskrit, so I fail to see how you can accuse anyone of mistranslating anything. My comment: It is the hallmark of some and not you. You quote those. And since I do not know Sanskrit how will I know that you have not mis lead me? So, I prefer to refer to use many translations and compare them. By this process of comparison, it has been seen and demonstrated earlier, that interpolations and especially created purports are hallmark of some translations. Since, I do not know Sanskrit, I avoid them like bugs. In reply to: but you cannot do it for all verses that I reproduce below. You have not quoted any verses, just English statements which you allege to be translations of some Gita verses. Anyway, you don't know one way or another since, as previously mentioned, you don't know Sanskrit. I say: The purport of your stock reply is: ”Atanu you don’t know Sanskrit. So, Advaita is wrong” You have called me fanatic. It is much better than being called a RASCAL. I saw this word also in this forum recently. If in public, you are calling me fanatic, then what you are doing privately or in your mind I cannot imagine. Baby cool down.

To your header “an unreal man who speaks.. funny!”, I wrote: You think you are speaking and I think it is Prakriti. You replied: ••willing and acting is a feature of the life. and the life is the soul, not the matter My reply Again contradiction. Krsna has said that Prakriti alone acts through senses. All works are being done by the Gunas of prakriti, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer. (3.27) Those who perceive that all works are done by the (Gunas of) Prakriti alone, and thus they are not the doer, they truly understand. (13.29) So, the question of unreality does not arise. The speaking is done by the gunas of Prakriti and not by my body-mind, which is insentient. You still think that this body-mind of yours is debating. Please read more: The imperishable Supreme Self, being beginningless and without Gunas, though dwelling in the body (as Atma) neither does anything nor gets tainted, O Arjuna. (13.31) They, who understand the difference between the creation (or the body) and the creator (or the Atma) and know the technique of liberation (of Jeeva) from the trap of Maya with the help of knowledge, attain the Supreme. (13.34) When visionaries perceive no doer other than the Gunas (or the power of Brahman), and know That which is above and beyond the Gunas; then they attain nirvana. Atanu

“•••if the "I am" is sat it seems that you agree that individuality also is sat... so "you are" an eternal spiritual soul part of sri krsna.. nothing's wrong” I do not agree that individuality is sat. Individuality is based on reactions to Gunas. One like sweet one likes salt is that individuality? Please define what individuality is and where it resides – in mind or in body or elsewhere. In what respect it is different from super soul. Bhagwan has said the following: The imperishable Supreme Self, being beginningless and without Gunas, though dwelling in the body (as Atma) neither does anything nor gets tainted, O Arjuna. (13.31) Atma in the body is My eternal indivisible fragment indeed. Atma gets bound (or attached, and is called Jeevaatma) due to superimposition or association with the six sensory faculties, including the mind, of perception. (15.07) As the air takes away the aroma from the source (or flower), similarly Atma takes the six sensory faculties from the physical body it casts off (during death) to the (new physical) body it acquires (in reincarnation by the power of Karma). (15.08) Relinquishing egotism, violence, pride, lust, anger, and desire for possession; free from the notion of "my", and peaceful; one becomes fit for attaining oneness with Brahman. (18.53) What is individuality (so called jivatma)? It only subsists on sense organs and mind as stated in 15.07. By devotion one truly understands what and who I am in essence. Having known Me in essence, one immediately merges into Me. (18.55) And my dear friend what Krishna is in essence? bhokt˜raÕ yajñatapas˜Õ sarvalokamahesvaram | suh®daÕ sarvabh¨t˜n˜Õ jñ˜tv˜ m˜Õ þ˜ntim®cchati om tatsaditi þrŸmad bhagavadgŸt˜s¨paniÿatsu brahmavidy˜y˜Õ yogaþ˜stre þrŸk®ÿõ˜rjunasaÕv˜de sanny˜sayogo n˜ma pañcamo'dhy˜ya× ( 5|29)|| Please note: sarvalokamahesvaram Bhagavad-gita 13.23 upadrastanumanta ca bharta bhokta mahesvarah paramatmeti capy ukto dehe 'smin purusah parah Translation: "In this body there is transcendental enjoyer who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the mahesvarah " Also read below to know that Krishna is none other than Mahesvara. yo mam ajam anadim ca vetti loka-mahesvaram asammudhah sa martyesu sarva-papaih pramucyate He alone who knows Me as unborn, beginningless, and as Mahesvara, the Supreme Controller of all the worlds, is undeluded among mortals and freed from all sins So, if the supreme Brahman resides in everyone’s heart and if Jivatma is due to association with the causes of Gunas, then why cannot one ness be attained? One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). Please note “---such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana”. Please also note: The non-dualists, who adore Me as abiding in all beings, abide in Me irrespective of their mode of living. (6.31). You say: “••for you i am a part of the universe.. i exist even if you do not know me and even if you think that you sometimes have no consciousness of your existence” We have gone through this before. But I will repeat, do not compare your waking state and my shushupti state just to avoid conceding the point. The point is that in Shushupti, universe does not exist. In Shushupti, although I exist, I do not know of my individuality nor do I know of you. And this question of knowing about your existence does not arise since the first nominative case I is not there. In turiya state the universe vanishes but the consciousness remains as one I. Gita states as below: Brahman is the oblation. Brahman is the clarified butter. The oblation is poured by Brahman into the fire of Brahman. Brahman shall be realized by the one who considers everything as (a manifestation or) an act of Brahman. (Also see 9.16) (4.24) Knowing that, O Arjuna, you shall not again get deluded like this. By this knowledge you shall behold the entire creation in your own Self/Lord, or in Brahman. (See also 6.29) (4.35) They, whose mind and intellect are absorbed in the Self, who remain firmly attached with the Self, who have Self as their supreme goal, whose sins (or impurities) have been destroyed by the knowledge, do not take birth again. (5.17) One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24).

To Dear Raghu Raghu Ji Gita is the source of Advaita. You may try to mis-translate a few verses but you cannot do it for all verses that I reproduce below. If you do not agree it is because your mind is ego bound with gunas of pride and you do not want to accept. Bhagwan has said the followings: By devotion one truly understands what and who I am in essence. Having known Me in essence, one immediately merges into Me. (18.55) And Raghu Ji what Krishna is in essence? bhokt˜raÕ yajñatapas˜Õ sarvalokamahesvaram | suh®daÕ sarvabh¨t˜n˜Õ jñ˜tv˜ m˜Õ þ˜ntim®cchati om tatsaditi þrŸmad bhagavadgŸt˜s¨paniÿatsu brahmavidy˜y˜Õ yogaþ˜stre þrŸk®ÿõ˜rjunasaÕv˜de sanny˜sayogo n˜ma pañcamo'dhy˜ya× ( 5|29)|| Please note: sarvalokamahesvaram Bhagavad-gita 13.23 upadrastanumanta ca bharta bhokta mahesvarah paramatmeti capy ukto dehe 'smin purusah parah Translation: "In this body there is transcendental enjoyer who is the Lord, the supreme proprietor, who exists as the overseer and permitter, and who is known as the Mahesvarah " Also read below to know that Krishna is none other than Mahesvara. yo mam ajam anadim ca vetti loka-mahesvaram asammudhah sa martyesu sarva-papaih pramucyate He alone who knows Me as unborn, beginningless, and as Mahesvara, the Supreme Controller of all the worlds, is undeluded among mortals and freed from all sins Brahman is the oblation. Brahman is the clarified butter. The oblation is poured by Brahman into the fire of Brahman. Brahman shall be realized by the one who considers everything as (a manifestation or) an act of Brahman. (4.24) Knowing that, O Arjuna, you shall not again get deluded like this. By this knowledge you shall behold the entire creation in your own Self/Lord, or in Brahman. (4.35) One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). Note: such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. The non-dualists, who adore Me as abiding in all beings, abide in Me irrespective of their mode of living. (6.31). The imperishable Supreme Self, being beginningless and without Gunas, though dwelling in the body (as Atma) neither does anything nor gets tainted, O Arjuna. (13.31) Atma in the body is My eternal indivisible fragment indeed. Atma gets bound (or attached, and is called Jeevaatma) due to superimposition or association with the six sensory faculties, including the mind, of perception. (15.07) Please note: Atma becomes jivatma by association with sensory faculties As the air takes away the aroma from the source (or flower), similarly Atma takes the six sensory faculties from the physical body it casts off (during death) to the (new physical) body it acquires (in reincarnation by the power of Karma). (15.08) Relinquishing egotism, violence, pride, lust, anger, and desire for possession; free from the notion of "my", and peaceful; one becomes fit for attaining oneness with Brahman. (18.53) One who finds happiness with the Self, who rejoices the Self within, and who is illuminated by the Self-knowledge; such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana. (5.24). Please note “---such a yogi becomes one with Brahman and attains supreme nirvana”. Please also note: The non-dualists, who adore Me as abiding in all beings, abide in Me irrespective of their mode of living. (6.31). My logic may be faulty but Krishna the Mahesvara cannot be wrong. Atanu

"conscious or not.. you are you even when you sleep" In deep sleep do you know yourself? If in dream less sleep you still know yourself, then you are one of a kind.

"••a-dvaita.. ........ you are believing that you are supreme" No, you all distort Advaita, trying to show that Advaitins are full of Ego. It is other way round. We believe Brahman is one. We do not at all say that the small I is Brahman. The Upanishadic dictum: I am Brahman, does not mean Atanu is Brahman. It means that Brahman is I of Atanu and Atanu's aham is unreal.