Bhakta Don Muntean

Quote: what do you think is MORE moraly repugnant Reply: ..someone trying to decide the answer to that question...

...exactly!

So we can hope this issue just goes away now and everyone can realize that one indeed has freedom of speech however - it isn’t a license to speak anything we like - we do have many examples of this freedom being 'limited' - for example - 'uttering threats' is a crime - not an exercise of free speech. Our freedoms are not to be used to encroach on others…

NEWS he distinguished the suicide attacks carried out by Palestinian groups against Israel, saying the attacks were justified by groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad as "legitimate means of war under occupation." http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/13865171.htm What a load of bunk! I think that the Saudi Arabian Ambassador is a little too quick to justify these homicide bombings – what exactly is he trying to prove in saying this? There may be an occupation and a war of sorts – but that is not any justification for heinous actions – such as the killing of citizens. That is one thing that the Ambassador forgot to factor into his assessment – these homicide bombers are killing innocent civilians in the streets not soldiers on a battlefield – that makes his explication on the matter moot. I would caution any individual from thinking that his point has merit – just see as Krishna says: And that action performed in ignorance and delusion without consideration of future bondage or consequences, which inflicts injury and is impractical, is said to be action in the mode of ignorance. [bhagavad Gita 18.25] The loss of civilian lives - in so-called ‘friendly fire’ - is nothing like the targeting of civilians: Whenever there is a war, there is certainly a massacre of many innocent living beings, such as boys, brahmanas and women, whose killing is considered to be the greatest of sins. They are all innocent creatures, and in all circumstances killing of them is forbidden in the scriptures. Maharaja Yudhishthira was aware of these mass killings. Similarly, there were friends, parents and preceptors also on both sides, and all of them were killed. It was simply horrible for him to think of such killing, and therefore he was thinking of residing in hell for millions and billions of years. [sB 1.18.29, purport] Why is it that the terror goes on but there are no actual changes for the good? See how stupid that question is! That is the point – in this conflict the parties are more and more fighting for the wrong purposes – they’re fighting for revenge - not reform and – they’re fighting without rules or regulations – it seems that they must exponentially out-do each others atrocities – indeed it’s becoming the sickest one-upmanship process one could imagine. Both parties wrongly identify with their own justifications of their violent reactions - as opposed to rejecting such justifications - irrespective of the circumstances. The comments [false justifications] made by the Ambassador do not help the Palestinians in this connection. Here is something that I posted - in the ‘Origins of the Satan Myth’ string: Violence is not any good way to induce reformations - All these point counter-point 'leaders' must NOW understand - violent retaliations are not any good way of inducing reformations in each other. The sickest thing someone can do to make change is to act heinously. That kind of mode of ignorance action does bring change - it brings more power for abusive administrations – it creates a despicable atmosphere for everyone - including those who thus act. So I hope that the Ambassador renounces the noted comments. BDM

Hari Bolo! Yes I shall try to get a copy of that book from BBT - thank you for the lead. What is the book about? YS, BDM

What about the prayer to the spiritual master - can you do that one in your 'mind'? (29) One should not offer obeisances silently to the spiritual master, or in other words, one should recite aloud the prayers to the spiritual master while offering obeisances. [Nectar of Devotion chapter 8] Just repeating the mahamantra within your mind isn't exactly going to be effective in changing your heart - is there a reason that you don't like to actually chant the Names? The mind is always flying to this and that, but one must always practice concentrating the mind on the form of the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna or on <big>the sound</big> of His name. The mind is naturally restless, going hither and thither, but it can rest <big>in the sound vibration</big> of Krsna. [bG Introduction] ...it is to be understood that Lord Krsna is present there in the form of <big>transcendental sound</big>, which is as powerful as the Lord personally...The Lord is so kind to us that He can be present before us personally in the form of <big>transcendental sound</big>, but unfortunately we have no taste for hearing and glorifying the Lord’s name and activities... [sB 1.2.17, purport] The Absolute Personality of Godhead is not different from His transcendental name, form, pastimes and <big>the sound vibrations</big> thereof. [sB 1.6.33, purport] So as you can see - the sound of the Holy Name is not material - even if intoned through our 'primative vocal cords'... BDM

...just see that the title post was speaking of 'the higher planets' not 'the spiritual world' - there is no need for '50 posts' in this connection...

...hey can you [oh nameless guest] read – the title post reads: How do they possibly make them [books] in higher planets? There is nothing in that posting about 'the spiritual world' - in this connection – why the error? The higher planets are not the spiritual world… So why do you then accuse me of "speaking impersonalism"? When you say this material world is a 'perverted reflection’ of the spiritual world – do you know what that means? The ‘spiritual body’ has our original ‘vocal cords’ and - there must be ‘sound in the spiritual world’ - the difference is that in the spiritual world - they are not covered by the contamination of the material energy….

Hari Bol Prabhu! You may like this: He who does not hate illumination, attachment and delusion when they are present, nor longs for them when they disappear; who is seated like one unconcerned, being situated beyond these material reactions of the modes of nature, who remains firm, knowing that the modes alone are active... [bG 14.22-25]

...but what about the power of the 'sound' of the holy name? That 'sound' is made with our "primitive vocal cords" - the holy name is a sound vibration - there ain't no such sound - without 'primitive vocal cords' - the very thing used to create the 'sound' of the holy name...

Quote: Good point - real wisdom! Reply: ...so what is that supposed to mean? Quote: Bhakta Don Muntean for president! Reply: Yes maybe I should be the 'president' [of earth] - we'll see...

In Britain, the government recently decided to deploy global positioning system (GPS) technology to track every vehicle in the U.K. every minute of the day. Just as GPS sensors are mandated for use in every cell phone in the near future in the United States (for our safety, of course), Britain will mandate the use of a GPS sensor in every car. ``Has Reginald White arrived at the grocery store yet?'' will become a question answerable by the security division of Britain's DMV. Read more: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1229-35.htm Hey I wonder what devotees think about this - any comments about this desire to encroach on our privacy?

By riding on a spacecraft that can travel at speeds of two hundred million meters per second, or about four hundred and fifty million miles per hour, a passenger would experience significantly slowed time. The slowed time would not be noticeable to the traveler — the same way riding an airplane doesn't feel any different than sitting on Earth. But once the traveler returned, he'd find that those who remained on Earth had aged at a faster rate. Reply: Interestingly enough there are many points in Vedic texts that confirm a multidimensional universe and there is a narration in the Vedas that relates the exact nature of the quote from Amanda Onion’s article posted by Gauracandra. I heard this narration some time ago – in fact I heard it told by the famous Joseph Campbell in his PBS series called “The Power of Myth“ – so I’m not sure where in the Vedas this exact narration is – but it is there. So briefly: There was once a king on this earth who had the most astoundingly beautiful daughter who was at marriageable age – there were many great and qualified suitors – in fact there were too many – so the king decided to travel to the planet of the creator of this universe - Brahmaloka to ask Lord Brahma the foremost living entity in the universe who he should present his daughter to. So the narration goes on to say that he boarded a ‘flying craft’ and very quickly approached the abode of Lord Brahma. When they arrived Lord Brahma was engaged in hearing a concert and the king was told that he would have to wait – about an hour - for an audience with Lord Brahma. After about one hour the king was escorted to the audience hall of Lord Brahma and - as he was entering he heard deep laughter – it was Lord Brahma – knowing why the king was there he said to the – shocked and bewildered king - ‘O foolish king - all those whom you would have chosen to be suitors have long since died – many kalpas have transpired on the earth since you left – everyone you know is now long since dead’…. So we can see from that narration that exact point – they left earth and from their perspective they very quickly arrived at the planet of Lord Brahma – which is at the top of the universe – and then they had to wait an hour – so they were only gone for just better than one hour – yet on earth time had continued in a different capacity – millions of years transpired in their brief absence. That is why Brahma was laughing at the king - like he should have known better than to come there - on a one way trip in the first place! Space travel and time travel are sort of like going into a: There are points in the Vedas that deal with time and space that are now being elucidated by modern science.

Quote: Blair went on: "There is a virus of extremism which comes out of the cocktail of religious fanaticism and political repression in the Middle East which is now being exported to the rest of the world. Reply: That is shortsighted. It is time for this issue in the Middle East to be resolved properly - before it does become a global conflict – and - if it is to be so resolved - then there cannot be any outside machinations by the various political and religious lobbies in the U.S.A. etc., - we for instance must learn from the past mistakes made by the British Empire in this regard Regime changes do not lead to democracies - they [at best]lead to puppet-regimes and later - civil war. All these groups have to realize that no extremist group has ever had collective success in creating a lasting Empire - nor has any extremist succeeded in preserving any real personal influence within their societies – nope - it all comes apart in the end – each time – history has a long list of such examples... We all must do our part to work things out in this world – to address quarrel - and its sources. Of course in the current ‘infectious’ point and counter-point conflict scenario - we have a tug-of-war - between extremists from all camps - and their rope - is the innocent masses. What about the fact that it appears more and more that the war on terrorism - is really a turf war of sorts and that the so-called Muslim extremists - are a counter-point to the evangelical extremists – or is it the other way around – well it matters little in the final estimation of the problem. The sickest thing someone can do to make change is to act heinously. That kind of mode of ignorance action does bring change - it brings more power for abusive administrations – it creates a despicable atmosphere for everyone - including those who thus act. I sure hope that the people in Iran are not going to permit their leaders to continue in their point and counter-point interactions with the west. These various Arab nations in the middle east have to understand that they are cheating themselves by engaging in these conflicts – and they must do what they can to convince the world that any pre-emptive strikes would be unnecessary. Most of the population in Iran is youth – these youth are at a crossroads position with the future of their nation – many of these youth must be asking themselves if they want to follow the past course of conflict. Who can deny that – if they are prematurely attacked – they may decide to renew their hate for their attackers and - the west? That is the point – in today’s world they are fighting for the wrong purposes and - they are fighting without rules or regulations – it seems that they must exponentially out-do each others atrocities – indeed it’s becoming the sickest one-upmanship process one could imagine. Who isn’t getting fed-up with this nonsense? What do we do with a world like this - where the majority becomes thus bent? If he is pious he shall start to understand these things... BDM

Hari Bolo!

Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush, leaders of their parties, see eye-to-eye on the most pressing concerns facing the U.S. and the Middle East today. http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=8515 Mrs. Clinton a mindless player in the arena - I'd rather stick with Bush...

They're at it again: a Middle Eastern country is accused of having, aspiring to have, and wishing they had "weapons of mass destruction." Its leader is demonized as worse than Hitler. Its ambitions are described as virtually unlimited. And it is said to be threatening its neighbors – and the United States. http://www.antiwar.com Well in the case of Iran - there is reason to be very concerned - anyone who can dismiss the many comments made by her president may be found to be ill prudently foolish in the end. The question is how best to deal with Iran but - there is no doubt that 'something' must be done. Outside of all the readiness to war for all these parties - Iran has to make some real efforts and her president has to grow up and reconsider his responsibility to the life and liberty of his people - not that his responsibility is to do what they are hinting at - attacking others. Are there terrorists in Iran - yes - without a doubt and - if the president of Iran doesn't come to understand that through that culitvation of terror and terorists - the resultant myriad of extremists will one day present a group [much more extremist than him] that will be 'the end of his regime' - and does he ever question how he cannot trust 'everyone' presently at his disposal? If not - then he is a done deal - from within? There is a point about unstable political ideologies - at some point they are a source of great distress to those who've committed so much of themselves to that political cause. With the addition of 'religion' it becomes evermore worse in it's reactive nature. Theocracy may sound like a good idea to some people but in the end it isn't - and anyone with any amount of understanding can see that. When we see the states where there is such governances there are also terrible repressions of the people and - there are repressions of those who do not agree with that form of governance - so in that respect alone - it isn't a good form of government to deal with. In those far-away places where the efforts of transplanting democracy is going on – an alternative door is being opened – however - there is too the serious danger that theocratic types may take the vote [like Hamass recently] and rule as though it were a tyranny - if even for four year stints. Now here in North American politics we may be seeing seedling developments of this - only in a different category – we already have the democracy – what we are seeing is an increase of theocratic ideals within government leaders. Let us hope that that trend wanes quickly as when the real fight comes - 'they' cannot be covered by ill theocratic leanings themselves.

Hello! Yes I would love to see these quotes - please could you post them? It would help here! BDM

Hey gHari - thanks for this picture here - this picture is the first one that I cut out of the Gita for the wall [in 1987] - this sure brings back memories! Your Servant, BDM

...whatever the case - all the players are to see that GOD is in control...and soon. Quote: Solomon was in many ways also a type of the Antichrist, who is called “the Beast.” “Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold...” – 1 Kings 10:14 “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man (Solomon?); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” – Rev. 13:18 [...] To determine this, the following report documents the parallels in the lives and works of King Solomon, Jesus Christ, the Antichrist and the Merovingian kings. The correspondences between these personages are presented in the form of tables. This format was chosen to enable the reader to see the various similarities and contrasts side by side. In the last category, the Merovingian kings, information is presented about the current heir apparent of the Merovingian dynasty who is being groomed for the role of the Jewish false messiah – Thomas Plantard de Saint-Clair, the Grand Master of the Prieuré de Sion.* * The Prieuré de Sion is probably a front for the the Learned Elders of Zion, the high cabal of International Jewry responsible for the Protocols of Zion. The House of Rothschild (Ruth’s Child) is believed to be the “hidden hand” behind the Protocols, B’nai B’rith and the Order/Priory of Zion. In The Secret Powers Behind the Revolution, Leon de Poncins associated a B’nai Zion with B’nai B’rith, but over it, with yet a supreme council over B’nai Zion, which means “Sons of Zion.” “According to well-informed sources, there is in the B’nai B’rith a super-position of secret societies ending in a single governing power. Above the B’nai B’rith are the B’nai Moshe, then the B’nai Zion, and finally the hidden center of supreme command.” http://watch.pair.com/solomon.html Reply: So that is where your expert - Henry Makow - that's where his 'story' links go... What a bunch of bent propaganda it all is! Some twisted out-of-context facts and many more so-called facts NOT even worth considering [like the stupid quote above where the writer draws a very obviously stupid conclusion from the two bible quotes]... Then it falls into the trash with all that antichrist propaganda and the Jewish expectation of a 'messiah'. Of course - the Prophet Jesus [who was an empowered incarnation] was not the messiah. That then begs the question - who is he and - when is he? Proper studies of the texts reveal a great deal of easily understood material. In the scriptures we find points that enter clues on these points - to have a fair idea about the subject we have to be fair and true to the texts - if we do that we see many points. Looks like he has a lot of enemies already! One point the evangelical fighters of the so-called 'satanic messiah' preach is that the bible states that the Jewish 'messiah' [who is really the antichrist] shall have an inexplicable deadly head wound - that is healed and that 'the world wonders after him' due to this. This twisting has its connection to the ancient prophesy of Habakkuk - which says that 'the head' of the messiah was to be wounded down unto the neck - and of course - such a thing as an inexplicable healed fatal head wound in someone - would be evidence of a 'supernatural' connection - a fatal head wound inflicted in secret 'out of the house of the wicked' [for whatever reasons] and then the person is healed by God. This is part of why he is a sign unto people. Thou art come forth for the deliverance of Thy people, for the deliverance of Thine anointed; Thou woundest the head out of the house of the wicked, uncovering the foundation even unto the neck. Selah {P} [Habakkuk 3.13] Later in writing the book of revelation - the beast noted is Nero and - there was a legend that he was healed of a deadly head wound. I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been mortally wounded, but this mortal wound was healed. 3 Fascinated, the whole world followed after the beast. [Rev 13.3] Footnote: 3 [3] This may be a reference to the popular legend that Nero would come back to life and rule again after his death (which occurred in A.D. 68 from a self-inflicted stab wound in the throat); cf Rev 13:14; Rev 17:8. Domitian (A.D. 81-96) embodied all the cruelty and impiety of Nero. Cf Introduction. http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation13.htm The book of revelation is NOT about our future. However the end-times propagandists have seen and noted certain elements of messianic prophesy and they have created a litany of spin - on all of it. If there is any attempt to make sense of this linked nonsense from your posting expert Mr. Makow - it is tainted by the actual fact that there is a sick propaganda at work in these writings - trying to push a end-times evangelical lie and - worse... PS: More aberrations - from them links: During the first half of the Tribulation period, the microchip implant will serve the ends of the New World Order as a counterfeit mark of the beast. To further deceive the masses, a *false* Antichrist and *false* False Prophet will also be staged and judged at mid-Tribulation by the *real* Antichrist, who poses as *The Christ.* At mid-Tribulation, after approximately one half of the world has been devastated, mankind will be forced to revert to a system of barter and exchange which, even now, appears to be in the planning stages. 10. The true mark of the beast--the 6-pointed star and other variations of the 666 motif--will be tattooed upon those who give their allegiance to Satan at the Luciferic initiation. http://watch.pair.com/stuph.html Just see how bent the propaganda really gets - what's worse is all this bogus prophesy interpretation [and fictional Satan] - is accepted as fact - by so many people. Oh have the 'facts changed' [!] - so much so - that the 'six pointed star theory' as presented by the noted site - is out the door: Satanists, apocalypse watchers and heavy metal guitarists may have to adjust their demonic numerology after a recently deciphered ancient biblical text revealed that 666 is not the fabled Number of the Beast after all. A fragment from the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament, dating to the Third century, gives the more mundane 616 as the mark of the Antichrist...Where more conventional versions of the Bible give 666 as the "number of the beast," or the sign of the anti-Christ whose coming is predicted in the book's apocalyptic verses, the older version uses the Greek letters signifying 616...Elijah Dann, a professor of philosophy and religion at the University of Toronto, said the new number is unlikely to make a dent in the popularity of 666. "Otherwise, a lot of sermons would have to be changed and a lot of movies rewritten," he said with a laugh. "There's always someone with an active imagination who can put another interpretation on it... http://66.94.231.168/search/cache?p=mark+of+beast+616&ei=UTF-8&u=www.religionnewsblog.com/11134&w=mark+beast+616&d=B_smj21aMIHW&icp=1&.intl=ca So there we have it - truth bears out this irrational 'mark of the beast and the six pointed star' nonsense! The same negating fact checks can be done with all this garbage. As noted - there is going to be 'in those days' some kind of messianic 'servant of rulers' of a ten-member 'super-state' - he later intercedes with an 'angry' Lord for these leaders - [see Isaiah 53.12]: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.' [Zechariah 8.23] Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, his Holy One, to him who is despised of men, to him who is abhorred of nations, to a servant of rulers: kings shall see and arise, princes, and they shall prostrate themselves; because of the LORD that is faithful, even the Holy One of Israel, who hath chosen thee. Thus saith the LORD: In an acceptable time have I answered thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee; and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to raise up the land, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; [isaiah 49.7-8] He is not to be born until after the scattering of the people from Jerusalem and Judea - by the romans in 70 C.E. and - we might see a clue as to what generation he is born into - through these quotes: But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days. Therefore will He give them up [beth-lehem Ephrathah], until the time that she who travaileth hath brought forth; then the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel. [Micah 5.1-2 We know when Beth-lehem [and Jerusalem] was 'given-up' - so when was it again under the rule of a Jewish nation? It was in early June - 1967. So we see that in text 2 - after he is born [outside of Israel!!] they [beth-lehem Ephrathah] are no longer 'given-up' and one day - he and 'the residue of his brethren shall return with the children of Israel'. So that is an interesting point on this. It is simple really...anyone can be an interpreter of these things...? We certainly know from the texts that he is an individual jiva soul - not someone who is any kind of incarnation [he is a reincarnation though 'whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days'] of any god or dare I say - God! He is not a part of any of that business. He is 'well predicted' in texts and there are so many sorry people who have long wished to make him into a demon or evil incarnate [if he appears in their lifetimes] - how sad is that - really. Doesn’t every [good] teacher say that we should try to understand things properly - otherwise we’re sort of on the outside of things – right? BDM

Hey there are a lot of Italians in the pizza business – do you think that there is some Italian conspiracy to control the manufacture and distribution of pizzas? Heck there are a lot of Oriental’s in the restaurant business – would that mean that the Orientals are caballing the manufacture and distribution of noodles and stir-fry? Wow there are a lot of south Asians driving taxis – I guess they are in a conspiracy to control the taxi industry? There is a whole bunch of ‘everybody’ - doing everything – you’re so jaded to keep harping on this point – I certainly do not accept that there is a Jewish control over the banking systems… I think that there is a real conspiracy in our society though – and it is centered about the efforts to profile and marginalize people of Jewish backgrounds – there is so much evidence to support it – as for your ‘savethemales’ site by that Makow [is he a christian now?] – who cares! Just because he is Jewish we are to accept what he says about Jewish history? I do not accept that. How much Saudi money is in America? How much do they control? Or is that a profiling too? BDM

You can call it anti-Americanism - but that isn't so - to be critical of the U.S. foreign policy is not anti-american - also - we all know that the U.N. resolution had NOTHING to do with regime change - but that is what they did and to date - they haven't found any WMD. As for the leaders that have lost seats – their loses weren’t due to a not engaging in Iraq nor of their being critical of those nations who are - it has everything to do with domestic issues - and you know that. Quote: his views are compatible with Mr. Bush, John Howard and now Tony Blair Reply: There it is - the three leaders who shall conspire together to do what? [an engagement of Mr. Harper?] Yes let them transplant democracy into places over-run with extremists - indeed it's such a good thing now isn't it. Also - don't pretend that everything is going well in Iraq - or in the war on terror - too many mistakes and there is a questionable motivation for all of it... If Canada stays out of the tit for tat reality created by some of our other western leaders - we will never lose - but if we enter these battle-grounds - we all know what shall be the result. So as you read this understand that what the U.S. and the U.K. are doing - is outside the U.N. - they have taken a global enforcer role - but who [is respectable enough to] shall police them? Is the U.S. vice president going to submit to the E.U. questions about the secret gulags? If Cuba is a communist enemy [and you cannot buy Cuban goods in America] - how come the Gitmo Gulag is there? How is that worked out? Thus one could wonder - where the real lines of acceptance are – regarding - who is an ally and - who is an enemy in these convoluted conflicts – yes this may be the ‘real’ conspiracy matter?

...only a symptom of kali yuga - more paper than gold... As for the rest of your posting - well the fact is you've no evidence - just conjectures...

I did a search and found this old editorial caricature - from the WWI era: So it is interesting how everyone is in the same mode - maybe they're at odds - but they're in the same mode of nature - nontheless. For example - here is what we posted to the internet - before the vote of non-confidence that resulted in the noted conservative win at the recent federal poll: Jack Layton claims that the NDP have 'lost confidence' in the Liberals – but again – he thus thinks that the conservatives shall not lose NDP confidence much quicker? Is left-leaning Jack Layton incompetent to understand what dealing with right-leaning Steven Harper is really going to be like - when he apparently cannot deal with the center-standing Paul Martin? Or is Mr. Layton really hoping for a conservative majority - so that his NDP party will not have to prop-up a ‘conservative minority’ government? So we also noted during the leaders debate that when Jack Layton was asked whom he prefers dealing with - Mr. Martin or Mr. Harper - Jack didn't answer the question! Instead Jack deflected the issue and badgered Mr. Martin for ‘other’ so-called answers - when he knew the rules of the debate stated no questions or discussion between the leaders directly! Why didn't he answer the question? Clearly - he failed to answer - due to the fact that he's supported Mr. Harper for some time and - he knew that his voting public might have an ill reaction to actually hearing ‘that’ answer. Some how Jack wasn't telling his supporters something we've said all along - the left-wing NDP party would indeed prop-up a right-wing minority. In this following news quote it is noted that Layton dismissed any notion of working with the conservatives - in the final days of the campaign: Jack Layton meets with his 28 other New Democrat members this week to see whether they can work with the Conservatives, who were vilified by the NDP leader in the election campaign as completely out of step with basic Canadian values..."I am going to make a legitimate, determined effort to find things where there can be common action," he said in an interview with The Canadian Press...In the dying days of the campaign, Layton dismissed any notion of co-operation with the Conservatives, saying it would take a major research project to identify the similarities between the parties. He steadfastly refused to answer any questions about how he might work with a Stephen Harper administration. But with the reality of a Conservative minority government on Feb. 6, and with no appetite among Canadians for another election soon, pragmatism is setting in. Even though the NDP's 29 members are not quite enough to give the Tories the votes for a majority in the Commons, they still could be crucial in building support for key legislation... http://news./s/cpress/20060128/ca_pr_on_na/ndp_co_operation So there it is - just as I said it would be - so how far down the road does Jack go? We can be pleased that the NDP vote ain't enough to get the conservatives through the house votes - they are going to need help from the Bloc and I doubt that is going to happen now - Mr. Duceppe is going to want to go to the polls sooner than the right and the left will - they want those seats back - so this is the 'mixed' situation. When are all the leaders going to get a real clue already? Haven't all the 'big big' players figured out that they have created an situation that is going to cheat them too? Competition and conflict - it goes on within each group and between all groups - this is the seemingly endless karmic loop... Step forward out of the shadows of these two issues and we can save the earth - venture deeper into those shadows and there is no hope for us - this is the question for each of us - no matter 'where' we are!