Bhakta Don Muntean

Such passion here in you! Why is it so? Are homosexuals 'demons' by that explication? “…In days gone by there were many sages in Dandakaranya. Dandakaranya is the name of the forest where Lord Ramacandra lived after being banished by His father for fourteen years. At that time there were many advanced sages who were captivated by the beauty of Lord Ramacandra and who desired to become women in order to embrace the Lord.… Lord Ramacandra remained silent, and His silence shows that He accepted the prayers of the sages…” [Nectar of Devotion ch. 16] Were those sages demons? If only you could think beyond the body and its activities...

Yes that is pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. If people wish to be initiated by either 'camp' that is their concern - but I don't think it's bad if people say 'I don't need to do that I can perforn my sadhana without that formality' -

Wasn't it that their actual 'perversion' was that they wanted to have sex with their father? That they were demons for that - is clear in the incident - the homosexuality part - is another matter - less convincing. Homosexuality is not incest - nor are they concomitant. What about the sages - the male sages - that saw Lord Rama in the forrest and wanted to enjoy with Him in conjugal ways - so - we are told that He accepted this desire of their's and - they took birth as Gopis [milkmaids] in Krishna Lila? I agree about not surrendering to one's lusty desires and - to rather surrender to Krishna - but - to border one's attitude with 'homo-phopia' [or any sort of thing like that] is nonsense. One cannot lose one's family over ones skin color - but - one can lose one's family over this issue and - it can happen in any family - anywhere. Most people know do others who are gay and who are not revealing it - due to the fear of the subsequent hate etc., that would follow. Is it anyone any of you know or are related to? Society sould not encourge this [or any sex-life] nor should they make those who do end up gay feel like they are demons - an abomination. I think that it's said that the men who are most homo-phobic are closet cases? It would seem that some devotees would rather just take the most stringent of positions - when in their own lives things are not so puka either. That interview [posted here in this thread] says that homosexuals care more about sex than they do about God and - that is an example of the 'hate' in action. Clearly it's a generalization - one that makes people think that gays are demons. It's a generalization - no more. I've known lots of straight people - who acted like sex is the reason to be alive and that's more than kinda gross but - are/were they demons? No! We must know that all desire - is a subtle thing and - one can become infected by desires - just like any disease - and the worst way to become infected with the desires of others - is to be overly critical of them - it's true...

That last posting sort of places the matter into a clear perspective doesn't it...may this Amil Imani see full success in his defense of his innocent fellow Iranians - who are directly at the hands of a tyrant who may end up with some kind of god complex...

Wrong! Where at his website [or anywhere] does it say he is a Rabbi? He is Jewish - but that doesn't make him an expert on anything in and of itself - right? He makes alot of seeming 'anti-Semite' like assertions in his writings - from what I can see - the question is why? His website writings are curious in this regard. But I assure you he isn't a Rabbi - so why assert that he is?

To say you should just sit back and let things like that happen seems stupid to me. I respect Vedic thought and nonviolence to animals but there are circumstances where I think predatory animals should be killed. I agree. We also must try to convince everyone that the highest ideal of all scriptures and faith traditions is to show mercy and prudence in dealing with other living entities - we can try to help people to see that the trend is that peoples and societies have to move past the flesh eating. In the bible there is a great deal of information about this and we know from the bible and other biblical sources that in the messianic age even the natural meat eaters like lions - shall not eat flesh. We even see that humans shall interact withthe wild beasts - without fear and enmity. There is the issue of bird flu pandemic and why is it that there is such a global risk growing and yet people are still saying pass the chicken? It must not take a plague to change the thinking of the people. On the issues of kosher - I would question that the cows are not kosher - the calves having been raised on blood and later other foods mixed with blood - how is that kosher? Forget that in the Talmud it says that if a butcher kills a cow with a defective knife he will be doomed to take birth as a cow to suffer like that. So how does that equate with the slughterhouse kosher? The Talmud gives that explication saying that it is not permissible that the cow aught to suffer - there are myriad of evidences that the cows do suffer - greatly - in the slaughter now. I have a video that I got from the peta site - that shows the butcher kicking the blood into the face of the cow - as she flails all over the floor in her own blood. Where was the understanding in that? How often does this go on? The kosher laws were not given to govern the modern slaughterhouse factory farm operations - not in the least. So I would implore that the same is true of Halal. I pray that these things enter the minds of those who think that it's all kosher etc.,...the best way to be kosher is to not eat flesh at all...

As a proper Sadhu he is inclined to only see the good things in others despite their bad, or even horrible pasts. He wants all these sannyasis to keep their disciples and to keep preaching. Reply: That is total nonsense! Can you find me the shastric quotes to prove this bogus explication?

You may be right - but - this Kirtananada SWAMI isn't any vaishnava - Prabhupada says that not everyone dressing as a devotee in this society is a devotee. Just read back in the history - he was a problem from the get go - Prabhupada gave his mercy to him and what did he do to repay Prabhupada? So in most cases I would agree with you - but this guy's crimes are too serious and he never really made amends for these things - he only went to prison for 'some' of his crimes. Is he going to blend the Christian faith with vaishnava again? Didn't go too well the first time - maybe he didn't learn from that? Do not compare his fall-down with that of others - this guy was connected to murder and molestation - these are WELL KNOWN FACTS. I think of all the people who won't [or can't] chant Hare Krishna anymore because of him - how many people did he ruin? Do you care about them? Has he been cured of his propensity to control and molest others?

Oh well - I guess we might see a new era of - 'what'? Don't forget that the good swami is a criminal - he wasn't prosecuted for all his crimes - he doesn't deserve this respect - it is a slap at Srila Prabhupada - all his victims [including those who he initiated and betrayed] and - the innocent public who shall search and see the history and then see these 'meetings' and then wonder about the community of devotees? Just my humble thoughts...

Oh here is this Makow creep again - he mentions Satan and a so-called new world order - well Mr. "Ph.D." - there is no Satan. He wrote: For them [Muslims] the battle against Satan is very real, and they are willing to sacrifice their lives. This is why they pose the last remaining religious obstacle to the Satanic New World Order. So what is that - an excuse for the Islamic revolution - a.k.a. - the terrorists? To write: they pose the last remaining religious obstacle to the Satanic New World Order is quite specious indeed. If there is a new world order it most certainly is not 'satanic'. If the truth be told - the Islamic Revolution is about as satanic in expression as one might find in today's world. The davinci code is trash just see how easy it is to befool people!

Melvin - there is no connection. It sounds to me like your ideas are quite willy-nilly - you aught to try to center your thinking process...

They're making leather products in Vridavana - from where does that leather come? Of course the situation of these ladies is deplorable...

<!-- attribution -->"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent a long, rambling missive to US President George W. Bush this week. It ended on a somewhat ominous note that seemed to some Islamic scholars to constitute a declaration of war against the US." http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0506/glick051106.php3 So I was already saying that in my disection of his letter on May 10 - so I wasn't the only person to see those veiled threats. I think my critical analysis is spot on!

David Bowie: "A Better Future" Please don't tear this world asunder Please take back this fear we're under I demand a better future Or I might just stop wanting you I might just stop wanting you Please make sure we get tomorrow All this pain and all the sorrow I demand a better future Or I might just stop needing you I might just stop needing you Give my children sunny smile Give them moon and cloudless sky I demand a better future Or I might just stop loving you, loving you, loving you When we talk, we talk to you When we walk, we walk to you From factory to field How many tears must fall Down there below Nothing is moving Oo-o I might just stop wanting you I might just stop needing you I might just stop loving you I demand a better future I demand a better future I demand a better future For I might just stop loving you, loving you, loving you I demand a better future I demand a better future I demand a better future For I might just stop loving you, loving you, loving you I demand a better future [from the Album Heathen]

Good logic here - Kulapavana - are you saying that there is something wrong with that paper? No one in the west wants this war - but it may be that this war is unavoidable just how long do we wait to see if their barking and snarling advances to biting? God-damn Kali yuga!

[posting and .gif grudgingly edited by don]

Your historically correct post places this in its proper perpsective

Yes the letter - a threat from a person. Of course he wasn't really writing to Mr. Bush for any other reason but through pretence - to get publicity for a crazy 'statement' from him to the world - the west in particular. All his talk about injustice and failed western democracies is what it is - a justification for his plans to cause and hasten - the shattering and fall of the...liberal democratic systems Simple people may hear him and think - 'oh this guy really knows the world's ills and he cares' - but - what they don't see [or won't see] is that he really knows very little and cares only about his unfettered Islamic revolution and an global Islamic Republic.

Depending on where you live there are 'used record stores' - where you may find most of the old style vinyl records of these bands - for reasonable prices too. Get a good turntable and use musicmatch to make them into MP3s... YS,

When the king protects the citizens from the disturbances of mischievous ministers as well as from thieves and rogues, he can, by virtue of such pious activities, accept taxes given by his subjects. Thus a pious king can certainly enjoy himself in this world as well as in the life after death. [sB 4.14.17] That was spoken by - cruel King Vena - a very long time ago - these are very proper sounding words - spoken by a demon. My insignificant enemies the demigods have combined to kill my very dear and obedient well-wisher, my brother Hiranyaksa. Although the Supreme Lord, Visnu, is always equal to both of us—namely, the demigods and the demons—this time, being devoutly worshiped by the demigods, He has taken their side and helped them kill Hiranyaksa. [sB 7.2.6] So here the demon seemingly speaks truth and then - he contradicts himself. He knew that God takes the side of the demigods - not becasue of the worship they offer - but rather - because the demons are usually doing something which is a threat to everyone. In the next verse we see an example of the delusions he suffered: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has given up His natural tendency of equality toward the demons and demigods. Although He is the Supreme Person, now, influenced by maya.... [sB 7.7.8-8] The demon even encouraged his servants to go on a terror campaign: Thus the demons, being fond of disastrous activities, took Hiranyakasipu’s instructions on their heads with great respect and offered him obeisances. According to his directions, they engaged in envious activities directed against all living beings. [sB 7.2.13] This is what these Islamic revolutionary types are like - these present day terrorists - being fond of disastrous activities - they'll take the president of Iran's [and other terrorist's] instructions on their heads with great respect and according to their directions - they'll engage in envious activities directed against all living beings. Hiranyakasipu made a nice speech and in Srimad Bhagavatam we can see that - so what do we make of his seemingly clear understanding of things and - his abject violence atrocities and offences? The demon's own envy was the cause and - it was thus his greatest enemy! Isn't it so for all souls? I wonder if these terrorists ever see that they too are terminal with envy. The president of Iran can make any speech he wants - he as the leader of a radical nation has made his real views very clear - all his high-sounding words about global inequality are just so much hot air. For me - there is nothing which he can [at some later point now] say [or write] which shall convince me that he has changed - his ideas are just too bent...

Jon Anderson and the band YES [and later vangelis] - very thoughtful music indeed...

In those 17-18 pages did he disparage the Israelis and the Jews again - did he try to convince Mr. Bush to join him in these well known maledicted perspectives? Well of course he did...by writing: After the war, they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. Six million people that were surely related to at least two million families. Again let us assume that these events are true.

See - he just doesn't get it - what a loser! He expects the west to support the Islamic revolution? He must be - Of course he does mention the nuclear issues and what does he say: The brave and faithful people of Iran too have many questions and grievances, including...increasing threats, anger and displeasure vis-à-vis the scientific and nuclear progress of the Iranian nation So that means Iran is to continue with the program because: all [brave and faithful] Iranians are jubilant and collaborating their country’s progress So that ain't the kick in the face!? They ain't gonna stop because all brave and faithful Iranians are united in this? brave and faithful - what does that portend? Is he saying that they are prepared for a fight over this? all [brave and faithful] Iranians are jubilant and collaborating their country’s progress - Is that true? Or rather - is it that any dissenters in Iran are made to 'go away'? He writes this: I could not correlate the abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system. So what goes on in Iran with those individuals/groups that are in opposition to the Islamic revolution - or - those opposing the Islamic Republic? What is the treatment and fate of these individuals and groups? How can we know? How then does he justify the Iraq insurgents and their routine abduction of a person, and him or her being kept in secret prisons, with the provisions of any judicial system? What about when his Islamic revolution group abducted hostages in 1979 - was this guy there? What provisions of a judicial system is he using to justify that to the world? I rather think that this guy better start to confront himself - because all this external confrontation - isn't going to be to his credit at the end of the day. Let us not forget that for our wise understanding - such matters are recorded within the vedic texts - that even the demon Kings Hiranyakashipu and Vena spoke wise-sounding words and [at times] made what sounded like good arguments - but - what were their basic programs? They wanted to cause everyone to serve them and their 'god-like' aspirations and - those individuals which got in their way - well we all know what happened to them right? The Islamic revolution is being advanced by despots - who like king Vena and king Hiranyakashipu [and like communism] - will terrorize everyone into submission - they have 'impersonal' designs on you and me - they would kill us for what we think and believe - if it is not the state enforced ideology! They want to place everyone into the service of their revolution - without any question answered on their part. The truth is - for them - the service to the revolution is more important than service to God! Yes - there may be many things wrong with 'western ways' - yet - nothing like the bent programs these fascists are pushing. He says of 9/11: some Western media only intensified the climates of fear and insecurity – some constantly talked about the possibility of new terror attacks and kept the people in fear. Is that service to the American people? Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic? American citizen lived in constant fear of fresh attacks that could come at any moment and in any place. It isn't the media which seeds and cultivates this fear - it is the [reported] continual threats being made by central figures of the Islamic revolution which is keeping alive a constant fear of fresh attacks that could come at any moment and in any place. Some believe that the hype paved the way – and was the justification – for an attack on Afghanistan. Who believes that - him? His whole premise here is so flawed that it's a joke. 9/11 - which he 'claims' to have denounced - was enacted by the leaders of the then Afganistan - so - what fact can he possibly be trying to displace in saying it was a media conspiracy that caused the invasion of Afganistan? So too - is he really gloating in saying - Is it possible to calculate the damages incurred from fear and panic? If the president of Iran thinks that the U.S. is going the wrong direction in bringing the 9/11 thugs to justice - why aren't they out there hunting for them too? Why aren't they even helping? We know why... Then the issues of his hate for Israel and the Jews - was made more obvious: After the war, they claimed that six million Jews had been killed. [...] Again let us assume that these events are true. Why is it that any technological and scientific achievement reached in the Middle East regions is translated into and portrayed as a threat to the Zionist regime? So that is not anything but the same attempt at a justification for his hate and ignorance and - he calls himself a teacher too! Now in these words - we see him make a clear threat: All prophets, speak of peace and tranquillity for man – based on monotheism, justice and respect for human dignity. Do you not think that if all of us come to believe in and abide by these principles [and by radical and revolutionary force if needed?], that is, monotheism, worship of God, justice, respect for the dignity of man, belief in the Last Day, we can overcome the present problems of the world – that are the result of disobedience to the Almighty and the teachings of prophets – and improve our performance? Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees peace, friendship and justice? Do you not think that the aforementioned written or unwritten principles are universally respected? Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets? Mr President, History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive....Can one deny the signs of change in the world today? Is this situation of the world today comparable to that of ten years ago? Changes happen fast and come at a furious pace. These are very curious words aren't they! He is giving a veiled ultimatum of his own - by saying - that the U.S. government [and others] is repressive and cruel - which shall not survive - in this veiled threat [and warning of attack?] he wrote - Can one deny the signs of change in the world today? Is this situation of the world today [what situation that is - he doesn't say!] comparable to that of ten years ago? Changes happen fast [what changes?] and come at a furious pace ["furious" is that an ill catch word here?] The people of the world are not happy with the status quo and pay little heed to the promises and comments made by a number of influential world leaders. Oh he's the real authority here - right? How he thinks he can speak for "the people of the world" - don't pay heed to any of his promises [that he and his could do better] - though one aught to pay close heed to his comments - in some troubled minds - he is an influential world leader. He is clearly canvassing for so-called malcontented people everywhere - to be candidates - to come and kill for his Islamic revolution? Even in western prison houses - they have operatives - who are seeding their propagandas to offensively malcontented people - yes - for their cause they'll go to prison to do this! They may call it an Islamic prison ministry - but it isn't like that in all cases as to be that - they wouldn't be proselytizing within prisons. They look for violent and disaffected individuals for conversion into their apostate interpretations of Islam. Many people around the wolrd ["wolrd" - is that a typo in a letter from a president to a president?] feel insecure and oppose the spreading of insecurity and war and do not approve of and accept dubious policies. Is he intending to be a self-appointed counter-point to this alleged situation? What of his dubious policies - in his Islamic revolution? [...] Liberalism and Western style democracy have not been able to help realize the ideals of humanity. Today these two concepts have failed. There it is - he's saying that Liberalism and Western style democracy have failed - a very blanket judgement [he objectively knows nothing of these] and - he is thus saying that his Islamic revolution shall help the world realize the ideals of humanity - that is what I hear in this. Those with insight can already hear the sounds of the shattering and fall of the ideology and thoughts of the liberal democratic systems. So what is that? Another veiled warning? We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point – that is the Almighty God. [...] My question for you is: "Do you not want to join them?" Mr President, Whether we like it or not, the world is gravitating towards faith in the Almighty and justice and the will of God will prevail over all things. So was that a pre-justification of a widespread "Islamic revolution" - a warning that he and his nation are to fight against - the ideology and thoughts of the liberal democratic systems - that have in their opinion failed - are they to hasten the shattering and fall of the ideology and thoughts of the liberal democratic systems? Yes - the world may be gravitating towards faith in the Almighty - but - it won't be what he's selling! Yes the world is changing [for the good] - but not in the direction that they are trying to incline it into. They are a threat to that new direction that is emerging! My basic question is this: Is there no better way to interact with the rest of the world? Today there are hundreds of millions of Christians, hundreds of millions of Moslems and millions of people who follow the teachings of Moses (PBUH). All divine religions share and respect on word and that is “monotheism” or belief in a single God and no other in the world. He speaks of interacting with the world and yet he clearly has no respect for any non-biblical faith - because it's not so-called monotheism? Is he saying that he and his Islamic revolution would fight Hinduism [and others] - as perceived threats to - the Almighty and justice and the will of God? He says people who follow the teachings of Moses - just why can't he say "Jews" in this connection? What makes a faith montheistic in his mind? We believe in 'a single God - that is 'ONE' yet he would see Lord Krishna as a false infidel god - so again - he's said something and - it really only makes his maledicted position - that much clearer. He writes: Do you not think that belief in these principles promotes and guarantees peace, friendship and justice? If that be the case then - why isn't there a real unity - within Islam and - even within the Arab world? They all accept these things - don't they? What an overtly simplistic and pointless viewpoint! I don't think that he has any desire for real - peace, friendship and justice... As we can see - this letter - rather than assuage the issues - hastened them... At last - I mention this one 'predictive' [or is it 'threatening'?] point he makes: History tells us that repressive and cruel governments do not survive Of course HIS government shall discover that [not] soon enough...?

Well this does nothing to address the Iranian endeavor to attain a nuke - all this does is lecture the U.S. about things that the Iranian president thinks are unjust [to befool stupid individuals into thinking that he is right or something] - but what about HIS injustices and HIS well known words of hate? This letter is quite a kick at the world if you ask me!