gHari

Outside with the inside ISKCON. So REAL! It always silences the critics.

Well actually, I am not convinced. Lord Brahma has his form. It sure as hell did not evolve from no ape. The Vedas evidence the presence of human forms a million years back. I reserve judgement. It's not that pressing for me. The scientists say they have put a chemical on some creatures and their offspring end up a 'different species' which can tolerate the chemical. This is the only physical evidence which I consider. Our tiny sampling of past fossil history from a tiny portion of this one little corner of one little universe shows exactly what I would expect given the nature of the transmigration of the soul. Leaping to conclusions may provide temporary elation of egos, but it is hardly satisfying. I reserve judgement. But bottom line: it don't matter a whole helluvalot anyway. If scientists will be attracted to LOrd Caitanya because the Vedas present a more plausible cosmology and creation story, then whatever it takes is fine by me. gHari

Bhakta George, Since Lord Brahma lives for 311 trillion earth years before the whole creation is again retracted, it would likely not be practical to have such a tight pipe on the entry into the cosmos in order to get the innumerable unmanifested jivas eventually situated (but of course with the mathematics of infinity just about anything is possible). Maybe you heard Prabhupada say that "a spirit soul first enters each universe as Lord Brahma" which actually meant in our ambiguous English language that "one spirit soul first enters each universe as Lord Brahma". We do know that that is true; and that he then creates according to Lord Krsna's desires for the onslaught of the masses. gHari

darwin, Actually, (is that really your name), I think after you strengthen your toehold in your eternal self through devotion and heighten your absolute faith in Krsna and His pure devotees, you can make the 'God of Science' website into a very meaningful pilgrimage of mercy for all the rational people who have lost religion due to seeming conflicts with science. I have no doubt you will find a quiet contented assimilation soon enough. Hopefully, with Krsna's help, you will then demonstrate to the world that the Vedas make absolute sense, and Lord Nityananda will be pleased with your heart's progress and your service to Lord Caitanya's mission. It does not take long to become strong, for as He promises to those who worship Him constantly with love and devotion, Krsna gives the knowledge by which they can come to Him. Never lose perspective. Always remember His inconceivable greatness. Never doubt or fear, because He can resolve paradoxes like the sun evaporates murky water. Let Him. He is quite fond of that. I wish you all success with Krsna. It seems your heart is ready now. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

There is no other way. There is no other way. There is no other way.

EVOLUTION The spirit soul when it falls into the material entanglement takes on each of 8,000,000 different forms before arriving at the human form. It begins at the most simple level of life and progressively inhabits one by one through increasing complexities until finally reaching the human form. It is a continuously changing cycle of birth, old age, disease, and death. followed by rebirth in the next higher of the 8,000,000 species, and so on. From the human form, however, the jiva soul can move both down to any of the first 8,000,000 species or up through 400,000 human forms on the scale of complexity. Once travelling down they must again climb through every hellish species back to the human form. This progression is quite evident in the fossil record. There is absolutely no discrepancy between the Vedic view and real science. The facts match; but Dr. Frog's speculations are off because he sees himself as the body - a temporary biochemical machine. So he guesses: is it ten times greater than my well? He has no facility to perceive the soul. If he had, he would not say he evolved from an ape/paramecium/dandelion/etc. First find the soul, then all answers will be intuitive.

How can we say we evolved from apes, when we are not even this body? Never have been any body. Never will be any material bag of blood, mucus and stool. It is just so repugnant. Such words are for stupid uneducated unenlightened puffed-up atheists. Such words only strengthen the illusion that the body has anything to do with our true identity. Prabhupada would freak at something so opposed to his preaching. "We are not this body" likely ranks only slightly behind "Chant Hare Krsna" in the all-time Prabhupada hit list. It might be less objectionable and more beneficial to the ones who are attached to their mundane scholarship and brilliant minds to say something like the human form seems to have evolved from the ape form by a slight alteration of the gene. This seems to be how God arranges for the conditioned jiva spirit souls to migrate through the 8,400,000 species of life, finally entering the human form where liberation is at last possible. How He does it is really not very important, especially at this point in the game. Tell them what is important. I have been able to fit the two worlds together. And of course they have to fit. But that's not where I started. First increase the intelligence by chanting; lose that static in the brain; see the world from Krsna's perspective and then you can see puny science as it is. Then the true face and arrogance of Dr. Frog, as he compares the size of his well to Krsna will be revealed to you.

Distance to the Moon - The Moon-thing

It's unfortunate that the real Darwin did not read Prabhupada's book "Life Comes From Life". Then he would not have embarrassed half the scientific community with his speculations of a primordial ooze of inanimate elements somehow giving rise to all conscious life. This abiogenesis portion of Darwin's tale has all but been eliminated from the highly touted Theory of Evolution nowadays. Krsna gives the soul a form best suited to fulfill its desires at the time of death, from 8,400,000 possible forms. How He has it arranged for that exact form to be born at that moment would indeed be a logistical nightmare for simple creatures like ourselves, even aided by the largest of super-computers. Yet it is but by a spark of His splendor that He creates and sustains all that is. Chance has absolutely nothing to do with it. We can believe Krsna or we can believe Dr. Frog's latest speculations. But don't let Dr. Frog cheat you into believing that he knows why the changes occur. He is so far from the Causal plane, he couldn't know why he seems to have independent thought, in a mechanical world where his brain cells are all completely governed by physical laws over which he has no control - yet he says he is not a robot. [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 11-06-2001).]

So, Daryn, you believe science has proved natural selection? You believe that sticking a cartoon of Lord Jagannatha up makes a webpage Krsna conscious? That page is the antithesis of Krsna consciousness, just as Kamsa was the antithesis of Krsna consciousness, although he was always conscious of Krsna, trying to invent ways to kill Him. You pose paradoxes, but no solutions. When you've got something, then maybe a website ... until then you're just spreading your misery around. Had you been able to assimilate the two seemingly divergent positions over the past eight months maybe the site would be more than less than useless. It looks more like an atheist in sheep's clothing to me. A cloned sheep at that. [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 11-06-2001).]

<table> <td width="40%" valign=middle><center> </center> </td><td width="60%"> <center><h1>God of Nescience</h1>First Krsna consciousness webpage to acknowledge that God does not exist.</center> </TD></table> Hiya. I am Daryn, and this is my other brother Daryn. From youth we were taught that religion is a pile of hogwash. Our goal with this page is to hopefully convince all of you of this fact. We will destroy the faith of the Christians in another venue, but if you happen to have any Christian leanings we would be happy to add our anti-Christian propaganda here. Your comrades, Daryn & Daryn

Evolutionists know that one species gives rise to another. They are only arrogant in speculating that they have any idea why. THAT is science. Their speculations have no place in 'science'. The truth is available from the Vedas. It is all explained readily by the transformation or evolution of the soul. [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 11-05-2001).]

Regarding those dates given, it appears that Srila Bhaktivinoda did not hold them close in his own belief, but rather provides them as a concession to the rationalists as a requisite to preaching to them. Cuz it don't matter a whole helluvalot anyway, really. He notes in his Krsna-samhita, prior to listing the modern dates: gHari

Prabhupada had some timely input here: http://www.indiadivine.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000855.html Time to get by the intellectual ego maintenance, and just do it.

While journeying beyond the mind to the soul, and the last arrogant crocodile controlling extolling the mind is subdued, the humble seeker abandons doubt once and for all: gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

Haribol, Here is a cool tool that converts Folio quotes into readily readable ascii text. Click here and then click on and download the free tiny "h-k Folio Harvard-kyoto Conversion software". Unzip that file in its own directory and read the readme.txt file for simple instructions. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God [This message has been edited by gHari (edited 11-03-2001).]

Yes, who is the honey? And who is the bee? If we could only see our own great fortune through Krsna's eyes.

Yes, and He admits He cannot see His own beauty as Radha does; or even understand the unlimited love She has for Him. This forces Him to advent in the mood of Radha, as His own devotee to taste His own incomparable sweetness.

A guest riddled an omnipotent paradox of Prabhupada "Can God create a rock that He cannot lift"? Prabhupada responded something like "Yes, He will create a rock He cannot lift". "And then He will lift it!"

No, no, no. Krsna never fails. His desires are always successfully achieved. That's what we call "omnipotent". It may not be the way we would want it, but be assured that it is as He desires. No doubt, the universe is unfolding as it should. It's all His mercy for us here, stubbed toes and all.

Glad that You just are, So I can just be.

http://www.vns.st/

Yes, halloween. Tonight was prasadam distribution night; Holyween. I put candles around a plastic skull on the lawn. It was like a pilgrimage to Lord Shiva. I found an old golf club cover in the shed shaped like a gorilla (from the old days before I got my ego in check thanks to caddy Bagger Vance). I found a fallen branch and stuck it in the ground by the skull to hold the gorilla. Soon a huge bag of bananas was placed under it (they had been on sale today, all ripe for 19 cents a pound Canadian - Krsna's mercy/hint/incentive). So after the kids got their sweets, I would announce that "Monkey says he wants you to have one of his bananas". These are wonderful kids; they were all thrilled. Near the end, one of my favorite humble seven year old friends was leaving and I told him that monkey said he wanted to go with him because he was the best dressed. As I lifted the stick out of the ground to award the ecstatic little prince, I realized that it was a monkey on a stick. Shiva puja and a 'monkey on a stick' - but all the while it was Krsna prasadam for all. Even gHari ended up with his own bag of sweets at the end. Ana banana. Now when I think of Monkey on a Stick, I will remember this enchanted night of sharing prasadam with all my little friends. gHari ------------------ Gary Stevason Seeking the Kingdom of God

Jndas, I had no idea there was so much happening at India Divine. I had so far only seen the forums. Well done. This is a great service to Lord Caitanya. The new mass mridanga. Ki jai! gHari

Tala, man, again you address what you think I meant, not what I meant. Please read slower. Consider every word for each had a cost. Can you understand the groans now? Can you understand the groans from before? Or is it all still about your greatness and our inferiority? I spend ten hours reading and reading their literature while you play games misunderstanding and skipping over my words, upset that I do not bow to your irrelevant instruction as though it is all about your winning and not about my view of Sikhism. Can you see now or is it still ego? If hasty induction had led to any conclusion, why the sentence about 'now maybe Mayavadis can be found in every religion'. Every word has a cost, therefore a purpose; here to colour the other words from black and white conclusion to question - a question that was being answered in spite of your childish interference. Such wonderful writings from Nanak and all you could do was play ego games. It was quite a downer. I said I would waste no more time, so this is it. You get it now or you never get it. Get over it, you will never 'win' for your attempted fault-finding was just offensive and boring, start-to-finish. Thank you very much.