Nrsinghadev

Hare Krishna, Actually, I beg to make a plea of how all religions can actually all be right at the same time. Our intellect is so limited, so incapable. Even Lord Brahma can't understand God or His ways, so what to speak of us? Still I would like to make a humble attempt at establishing my case. It is safe to say that God Has a specific reason for introducing all these different religions. We cannot possibly begin to fathom the intricate web the Lord has conceived through His maha-maya potency to accommodate our desires stemming from the abuse of our limited free will in this material world since time immemorial. Now remember that in the Gita the Lord says that wherever irreligion is rampant He will appear to re-establish religion. So, it is my understanding that for the living being there is one eternal religious function, or Sanatana Dharma, which is Vaishnavism (I will state my reasons for thinking so later). Then, there are temporary religions that are introduced according to time and circumstance such as Christianity and Islam. Among people there are different levels of consciousness, so according to time and circumstance an appropriate religion will be established by God to elevate the people to a more pure state of living. Like steps on a ladder, so the Lord is compassionate enough to provide a means for people of lower consciousness(mlecchas,meateaters) to gradually elevate themselves by providing them with religious principles according to their consciousness. Examples are "Christianity", Bhuddism and Islam. At the time of their respective revelations, those people were mostly impressionable and Godfearing (in the west). By the introduction of these religions, the unfaithful and the ignorant became relatively faithful to those beliefs (when compared to our present time), and through these temporary religions they were given a foothold out of their miserable conditions. Faith introduced morality, piety and God as the Supreme controller overseeing their every move so as to move humanity towards decent human behaviour rather than barbaric animalistic behaviour. So in my limited understanding, God chooses the most effective postures and manifests different temporary religions according to the relative consciousness of the respective people of those times and places, to keep their sinful actions in check and hand them stepping stones to God-consciousness. But how can you speak about those ancient times, when you weren't even there yourself or have no memory of it? This can be measured back even to one lifetime ago. One piece of mind of one's grandparents will reveal that even in as little as a span of fifty years, a huge decrease in morality and piety can easily be observed, so what to speak of the mentality of people in medieval times and before? Today, the number of people truly following their respective faiths, truly living it, has waned to an almost non-existent portion. However, those who fully embrace their respective doctrines,even though temporary(as in non-eternal), are able to attain some form of God realization. So as with the different standards of the various religions, so in God realization there are also different levels, and by establishing the highest standard we can ascertain which is rightfully sanatana dharma. Anyway, to add to the confusion, since biblical times, people have been abusing and rewriting religion and it's rules and regulations so how to tell who is telling the truth, how to establish this? Why would all those other religions be temporary and why is Vaishnavism not the temporary one, is this not another case of "my religion is better than yours"? No. Why not? Because no other religion has such a vast depth of knowledge of God and your relation with Him, of the material world, of the life in and outside of the material world, of past, present and future and of the mechanics of this universe. More importantly, no scriptures are as strikingly accurate as the Vedic science, which is still holding true even in light of modern day science which cannot be said of any other religious scripture. This does not however mean that the other religions are manmade by definition because of their inaccuracy on those accounts. Rather we should bear in mind the case of Lord Shiva as Shankaracarya, who was ordered by the Supreme Lord to defeat the very teachings He Himself brought into the world, so as to re-establish the existence of a God albeit not a personal one. Shankaracarya wrote many incoherent and confusing texts by clever word jugglery, which baffled many of the saints of His time, creating a huge following. Through these "false" teachings, the truth was eventually enabled to resurface once again as Shankaracarya's teachings were later succesfully rebuked by the Vaisnavas. (Mayavadism of course is still widespread today even in subtle forms, as it accomodates those persons of that particular level of consciousness.) So again, the pure atheists who were at first fooled by Bhagavan Sri Krishna in His form as Lord Buddha to take to some form of passive religious practices, were later taken a step up by Sri Shankaracarya's Mayavadism, and from there it was another step up to their actual function as a servitor or the Lord. So even though alot of the scripture of Shankaracarya didn't make any sense, there still was a larger godly purpose behind it, so we should not deny a scripture's divinity based on their apparent inaccuracies, for as the saying goes, God works in mysterious ways. So back to why Vaishnavism is the one true sanatana dharma and not those others? For even after taking into account it's vast assets of depth of knowledge of God and one's relation with Him, the universe, past present and future etc. etc., still, this does not provide a conclusive case to establish for a fact that Vaisnavism is the one true eternal function of the living being. So we have to dig further. And again, the sublime doctrine of Vaishnavism, the sanatana dharma of each and every jiva, provides us with the answer: Unless there is a parampara or pure line of disciples who parrot and live the very same pure message their predecessors have lived and preached, there is simply no way to verify the validity of any given religion. Thus we can verify for a fact, from the writings and actions of all those great saintly persons, combined with our own experience of trying to follow in such great devotee saints' footsteps, what is the truth. And that truth is Vaishnavism. You will not find any parampara in Islam or Christianity or any other religion related to Jesus Christ. The various "Hinduistic" religions do have their parampara's so we would have to ascertain which is the ultimate truth by comparing those religions with one another. The absence of a parampara gives room for speculation and deviation, which as also stated in other people's posts has been going on since biblical times. In this sense for example, nowadays the general mass of people may call themselves Christians but they may be unware that they are not following the actual word of Christ. It has been tampered with, molded in the past to fit some corrupted persons' wants and desires. They are not following His words, so how can they expect to be saved? Each of Jesus' disciples has given a different interpretation of their guru's words and instructions and the unofficial parampara died a quick death so how can they decipher who is telling the truth there? How can they expect to get any kind of God realization? But they still can, even though they are looking into troubled water. How? Simply through their respective bhakti of glorifying the Lord, reading about Him, singing His glories and praying to Him they can attain some form of realization. But just as the Bhuddist's realization doesn't go beyond the Lord's brilliant Brahmajyoti effulgence, similarly their realization is equally stunted and incomplete. Different levels of realization of, combined with different levels of relation with the Supreme Lord, are a sure indication of which religious practice can definitively be labelled the gist of all practices. So one's respective level of God realization leads one to a corresponding situation either here in the material world or in the spiritual world. That said, all the knowledge in the Vedas alone doesn't help to attain the Lotus Feet of the Lord if you are excluding your sincere devotion to Him. Only if used in conjunction with devotion does such knowledge enable you to obtain the highest form of relationship you can have with Bhagavan Sri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the real use of that knowledge, not using it for mundane benefits, or false egoistic means such as yogic powers,fame,followers etc. By observing this practice, alot of branches of the hindu pantheon are dropped out as they do not meet these qualifications. A true Vaishnava however, is unmotivated by such mundane desires. All he desires is to do service to the Lord. So to develop some sort of relationship with the Supreme Lord is the goal of all religions. From there we can establish what kind of relationship is possible: We have Santa Rasa, neutrality, Dasya rasa, awe and reverence, Sakya Rasa, friendship, Vatsalya Rasa, Parental and Madhurya Rasa, conjugal. The most intimate and thus highest form of relationship with the Lord is obviously Madhurya Rasa, the Rasa which is only attainable through worship of Sri Sri Radha Krishna. This has to be admitted even from a neutral point of view.Therefore it has to logically be concluded that Gaudiya Vaishnavism, which is the only religion that contains the means to acquire this eligibility, is the acme of all religions. But what if that Gaudiya Vaishnava parampara is corrupted? Well, you can verify this for yourself. We can easily check if the teachers in the Gaudiya Vaisnava parampara have corrupted the essence of the teachings, or they themselves are not living what they are preaching for the writings and the lives of those saints are all concurrent. Comparing writings and teaching dating back to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu with the writings and teachings of our time we can simply establish for a fact that there has been no deviation or corruption in the teachings. If that isn't enough, by simply practicizing those teachings oneself one can easily prove to himself the validity of this parampara and it's teachings. The sincere practitioner will undoubtedly ascertain this. From within the heart it will be confirmed. So in this way there are higher and lower forms of religion, all of which can exist simultaneously in their respective truths. It's just my attempt at clarifying this interesting subject matter, and I beg forgiveness on any misconceptions I may have brought forward in this writing. Haribol!

Hare Krishna, I think this translation of "Sri Bhakti Chandrika", 7th Patala, lists the effects of chanting the maha-mantra quite nicely and concisely: "This maha-mantra is endowed with thirty-two syllables and can destroy all sins. Just as fire destroys, this maha-mantra can destroy all evil habits and bestow dharma (duty or religious duty according to one's qualities and position, one of the four goals of human life), artha (economic development, one of the four goals of human life), kama (material enjoyment, one of the four goals of human life) and moksha(liberation, one of the four goals of human life). It's beautiful form is capable of stealing all of one's foolish, ignorant mentality,and it is the giver of suddha-sattvika(pure goodness) intelligence. It bestows the symptoms of prema-bhakti. It is worshipable and is worty of being served by all. Sri nama fulfills everyone's desires. All are qualified to serve this maha-mantra, meaning all are qualified to perform sankirtana of the maha-mantra. This maha-mantra is the well-wisher of everyone and is endowed with the potency to attract all. It is the destroyer of all afflictions. It does not consider the rules of diksha, and is not restricted by time. The maha-mantra is worshiped just by saying it. No external paraphernalia is required. It is capable of giving results simply by it's contact with the tongue, without considering the rules pertaining to time, place and circumstance." I hope this was of help to you, Haribol!

Haribol, great blog by Akincan Maharaj, moreso because the purport of it can be applied to all aspects of sadhana, not just to the chanting of the holy name. I particularly found the following line quite striking, as it shows quite accurately how surreptitiously letting slip the reigns of regulated principles actually takes place: "But the concession soon became the norm, the exception soon became the rule, the minimum soon became the maximum" The workings of this tendency through other aspects of sadhana already becomes evident if we browse even through some recent posts in topics of this very forum; topics about it's okay to eat chocolate because Prabhupada once ate a bit(exception becoming the norm), about it's not so bad to eat garlic and onion because hey it's vegetarian, about it's okay to worship any God whimsically because they're all the same One God anyway etc. etc. Some may seem insignificant, and that is why they're dangerous. Keep letting the small things slide and bigger things may follow. Soon you'll find yourself engrossed in material lifestyle again and wonder what happened. Or worse you may not wonder and just give in to it by thinking that chanting a few rounds daily will cancel out the sins, which is an offense to the chanting of the holy name. All in all an inspiring read, thank you for posting that. Hare Krishna

Did they show this picture with the divers or a video of it? This picture looks heavily photoshopped plus I can't find this picture anywhere on the net. Only one on a japanese site without the divers and without the clear lionhead carvings.

Haribol dear Allen, I must say I let out a slight sigh when I read your latest reply. I see you're still only looking to the outside rather than at yourself. Still with the faint touch of self-pity. You keep adverting to the devotees and the movement everytime you are confronted with your own issues. You know, the proverb 'God helps those who help themselves' and the saying 'physician heal thyself' are definitely appropriate here. You're trying to correct devotees while the person who needs correcting the most, namely yourself, is not getting the treatment. Honestly, if you had spent as much time on yourself as you have spent on trying to change the movement you would have been a vegetarian by now! First correct yourself, then try and correct the behaviour of others! You're acting like a guru and put on airs preaching and chastizing devotees, 'bleating' about 'saving the movement' with lengthy replies but you don't have the necessary qualifications. You speak about 'we' and 'our' movement but you haven't taken initiation, so you have no right to speak the way you do. It's kind of like a NY Yankees fan barging into their locker room telling the players how to play and expecting them to listen to him. How do you expect this will bear any fruit at all? This is why you are getting so many unfriendly responses. All you've managed to achieve by that so far is the destruction of any pious merit you may have obtained during your association. So for your own sake stop worrying about the future of 'the movement' ,stop criticizing devotees and start working on yourself. It says enough when you've been to the PETA site and all you've managed to get from it was that the PETA people are angry, close-minded and mean-spirited people! The best way to work on yourself is to first learn to love Krishna and you will learn to love all. The vegetarian diet will be a concomitant result of that. You've spent a great deal of your life with knowledge of Krishna, so now try and take it to heart. Try to see the good qualities in others and the bad qualities in yourself. Focus on building your relationship with Krishna, and vegetarianism will follow eventually. Good luck, Hare Krishna!

Dear Theist, Hare Krishna. Please bear in mind that it's not just Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who says don't eat garlic and onions, but in fact all bonafide Vaishnava guru's say this, plus it is written in the scriptures for said reasons that these are foodstuffs to shun for one who wants to become God conscious. Perhaps it would be a good idea to read through the info on the website of that link (or better sources) with scrutiny to get a better impression on how deeply rooted the rejecting of garlic and onions actually is in Vaishnavism. It is not just specifically mentioned in the Manu Samhita, but in the Purana's as well. More importantly, our beloved Vaisnava acharya's have repeated this over and over again. Since Krishna Himself tells us we are to approach Krishna through the bonafide preceptorial channel rather then through our own concocted methods, it follows that we should listen to Sri guru, and take their instructions to heart, for they have come to save us from this material entanglement which is full of affliction. Unlike us, their hearts are pure and instilled with divine knowledge, so it follows that they know best what is for the devotee's benefit. I sense the faintest hint of sarcasm in your post but I gather you understand that the gurus don't say these things whimsically,that they say it for our own good. It is commendable that you understand that one who has taken initiation has to obey the order of Sri Guru, that is indeed what it means to surrender fully to his lotus feet. But is it not commendable too, even for the uninitiated who walks the path of the Vaishnava's, to try and follow those same rules and regulations and be strict about them? Doesn't this form of tapasya show one's determination about attaining service of the Lord? Certainly this attitude would please Supreme Lord Sri Hari and consequently would certainly speed up one's progression on the path dramatically. Obviously it's up to you what you do with all this, but I beg you to reconsider that it is not that important 'in the face of our imminent death', because foodstuffs do affect the consciousness however one looks at it. This is not something to be lax about. At the time of death, the last thing you want is a troubled mind. You can't properly worship the Supreme Lord in a state of muddied consciousness. When he first came to the USA, Prabhupada has actually been lenient in this matter towards the neophytes, but only because he was confident that through continuous devotional service they would soon give up eating those unfavourable foodstuffs. Then at initiation they had to make the vow not to eat them anymore. End of leniency when one truly becomes serious about it. The effects of rajasic and tamasic foodstuffs may differ in perceived gravity according to one's own body and state of consciousness, but nevertheless the effect is there. So ask yourself; why would I add unnecessary ghee to the fire? Why should I risk getting my mind agitated if you can avoid it easily by not taking it? Certainly there is no need for that. Haribol!

Haribol, The following site has alot of info on why garlic and onions are foodstuffs to be avoided: http://www.salagram.net/Onions-Garlic-in-relation2Vaishnavism.html From these texts it becomes clear why any serious practitioner/follower of Vaishnavism will always avoid the intake of said foodstuffs. To expand on this subject, here's an excerpt from a lecture given by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on S.B.6.1.11 (New York,July 25, 1971): "ROLE OF DIET IN SEX CONTROL<o:p>" </o:p> "Forbidden Food: Hot curries, Chutnies, Chillies, Sour curd, Over-ripe and Unripe fruits and Salt are not at all beneficial. Onions and garlic are worse than meat. Lemon juice, rock salt, gingers and white pepper can be used in moderation." Here, garlic and onions are described as being worse than meat! Why? Because they work to promote lust and thus disturb the yogi's mind, obstructing him to focus on the Supreme Lord. Lust is one of the three gates that leads to hell (b.G.16.21): TEXT 21<o:p></o:p> <!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p> tri-vidham narakasyedam<o:p></o:p> dvaram nasanam atmanah<o:p></o:p> kamah krodhas tatha lobhas<o:p></o:p> tasmad etat trayam tyajet<o:p></o:p> TRANSLATION<o:p></o:p> There are three gates leading to this hell—lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.<o:p></o:p> PURPORT<o:p></o:p> The beginning of demoniac life is described herein. One tries to satisfy his lust, and when he cannot, anger and greed arise. A sane man who does not want to glide down to the species of demoniac life must try to give up these three enemies, which can kill the self to such an extent that there will be no possibility of liberation from this material entanglement. Somebody once said to me that it is more difficult to save a soul who is enveloped by raja guna than a soul who is enveloped by tama guna. I believe him. Hare Krishna!

Hare Krishna, No, it makes perfect sense actually. If God would have made us herbivore we wouldn't have had a choice in our diet now would we? God wants us to come to Him of our own accord, by our own free will. Otherwise if God would have simply made us exactly how He wants us to be, any relationship we would have with God would then be nothing but a play, a dull lifeless act. We would simply be puppets on a string. This is the reason why God allows us to do as we please,why we are omnivores, but in order to give us some direction He does let us know which path leads to hell and which path leads to Him. By the way, you should know that animal sacrifice in ancient times was done to promote the animal to a higher lifeform, not for sense enjoyment. That started later when animal sacrifice was rampant and people were atheists who were simply out for material sense enjoyment. They acted horribly on account of the Vedas but no one was able to properly execute such sacrifices for a long time, their state was far too degraded. Which is why God descended as Lord Buddha, rejecting the authority of the Vedas in order to stop the madness, while at the same time misleading the demonic people who took to meat eating, by giving them pious rules without God in the picture. Later Krishna sent Lord Shiva as Shankaracarya to re-establish the authority of the Vedas and re-establish the existence of a God, albeit an impersonal one. It was not merely done to turn atheists into theists but simply to clear the now blurry and dirtridden path of sanatana dharma and save the devotees. When God intervenes there are often multiple reasons which He clears up in one blow, so here He wished to save His devotees and gradually re-establish the true path of Sanatana Dharma, the other happenings were simply a positive side-effect. So like you said, we have the choice to do what we want and will have to bear the fruits of those actions. So God has everything to do with everything and so does His opinion which is faultless and always the truth. His opinion is that meateaters are murderers condemnable to hell, the advice is there. What we do with it is up to us, though the intelligent ones will opt to follow His advice.. The real reason why countless billions of innocent animals are slaughtered on a yearly basis worldwide is ignorance. It's Kali Yuga and humans are ever more turning away from God and losing faith in Him and His word. So in their forgetfulness they turn to boundless gross material sense enjoyment and so pave their own royal road to hell. It is not God's choice that the world is as rotten and perverted as it is today, it's our choice, and the what you see is the result of our choices. Hope this has cleared any misconceptions! Haribol!

Dear Allen Okay, so you have "studied" prabhupada's books, joined the movement for a while(?) in the eighties, and have gone to the temple regularly for the past 32 years and yet you still haven't been able to give up eating meat? Yet you feel you're NOT being a hypocrite when you continue to pass judgment and lecture those american devotees who DO follow the regulated principles? I'm sorry my dear but that just went down the wrong pipe. Don't get me wrong here, I'm all for the gradual and smooth approach and ready to lend a hand when someone asks for help,but when the hand reaching out is overlooked we have to try a different approach. If you've been familiar with the movement for that long, have studied it like you say and still haven't been able to give up that tiny spec of material sense enjoyment in the form of meat eating, you actually haven't really been reading at all, nor have you really studied it! You haven't taken it to heart. So clearly, the sympathy approach is wasted on you. So if you want still help transgressing from the meateating diet, I really think you should stop moralizing devotees who DO follow the rules and actually start taking the principles to heart yourself. You see, if you really were seeing the glories of Sri Sri Radha Krishna, it wouldn't come into your mind even for a second to keep on checking innocent animals' progression through the cycle of life simply for your own sense enjoyment. You can't offer meat to Krishna, so there's really nothing but sin in that diet. Look, your ice skate instructor maybe a patient one, but if after 32 years of practice you still can't even manage to put your skates on for yourself, maybe it's time to look at yourself being the problem instead of putting the blame on your instructor. I'ts time to get out of your poor helpless "falling-victim-to-maya-nothing-I-can-do-about-it-so-feel-for-me" role and take charge of your body! Let me tell you my take on the drill sergeant. You see, those drill sergeants are hard and tough on their subjects because they know what they're sending their boys into, which is hell. So they toughen them up and get them ready. They don't hate their subjects, even though the subject may think so, but actually it is done out of care. The sergeant doesn't want to lose any of his subjects. When a subject snaps during training and loses it, the sergeant will be glad he lost it during training rather then on the battlefield, because now the subject gets to walk away alive and he won't be putting his buddies into any danger when things get real ugly. Similarly, these four regulated principles are not your "tra-la-la-take-it-as-you-please-and-if-not-just-as-well" kind of principles! they are not to be taken lightly. They are actually your drill sergeant. They serve as a very effective means to ward off the lure of maya, but they are completely ineffective if you don't listen to that drill sergeant of regulated principles. If in your heart you do not REALLY want Krishna, then you will not be able to follow these four regulative principles. Your mouth will be speaking "oh Krishna please take me I'm yours", but in your heart there is no such desire. Then you may chant the maha mantra and think about putting the stuffing in your turkey at the same time. You said it yourself in your conclusion, So if YOU are unable to follow even one of the easiest basic rules, which is no meat eating, how can you expect to be succesful? You HAVE TO take control of your body and stop feeling sorry for yourself, take charge, be hard on your senses if they start acting up because right now, your criticism of the American devotees is cancelling out any benefit you've gained over those 32 years of association. So start being critical on yourself rather than the devotees and remember that a real guru can be real gentle or hard like a thunderbolt, when he needs be. Hare Krishna and Good luck!

Hare Krishna, As are some of your arguments: I agree. I don't see why a vegetarian couldn't be violent, though they are probably less prone to commit violence. This argument can be put into the realm of speculation. The following statement however: With this argument I wholeheartedly disagree. Violence begets violence. Meat is always obtained in a violent way. Unlike plantlife, animals have a central nervous system which allows them to feel, and they are much more conscious than plants. Those who have the taste for the flesh will have to kill an animal, thus inflicting a great deal of pain and fear onto the animal one way or the other. Therefore, even though you do not see the process that precedes the neatly packaged slab of meat you see in the supermarket, you are still being violent if you buy it. A visit to the slaughterhouse will validate this. Just because there is a conscious effort of the masses by masquerading the violence and trying not to think about it, doesn't make it go away. Most know this and are simply surpressing any thought of it, but if asked if they would kill their dog or cat for food, they will look in disgust and horror and deny they could ever do such an unspeakable act. Out of ignorance they wilfully forget that by eating meat the killing of an innocent animal similar in consciousness to their cat or dog has to take place. Their blood has to be spilled. In the various bonafide scriptures it is stated who is guilty of killing an animal: he who gives permission, he who kills the animal,he who sells the slaughtered animal,he who cooks the animal,he who administers distribution of the foodstuff and he who eats such animals. They are all considered to be murderers and all are liable to be punished by the laws of nature. So once more, violence begets violence. Now in order to survive, we have to "kill", even if it's only to a small degree, this is true. Even breathing air kills other life, life we can't even see. This however is beyond our control, it's not our fault, it's the way of the world so no sin will be incurred for that.(This "but you breath air and kill plants" is usually the lame and tiresome argument that a meateater eventually brings up after you say you are vegetarian, which indicates a recognition of guilt on their behalf). What we can and must do as civilized human beings is to try and minimize the damage and suffering caused to other living beings and our surroundings and that is where the vegetarian diet comes in. We as humans have been given a discriminating power, unlike any other creature on this planet. We have the power to chose right or wrong,good or evil. It is God's providence that allows us this tiny spec of independence. Without it, any possible relation of us with God would become stale. This is where your following statement comes in: So God has given us the possibility to choose our own diet according to our own desire, be it fruits,grains and vegetables or flesh. From the scriptures however, we can conclude that the eating of meat is condemned and any person taking to such a diet is surely considered to be in the mode of ignorance. The whole of material nature consists of three modes or gunas, they are Sattva(goodness),Rajas(passion) and Tama(ignorance). From the scriptures clear distinctions are made among humans as well as foodstuffs, as they are divided into these three modes. NEEDLESS TO SAY, meat falls into the category of ignorance, and needless to say, the demonic people take to such foodstuffs as in the mode of ignorance and passion whereas the divine people take to the sattvic foodstuffs, such as milk,grains and fruits. So to get back to this statement: So, clearly violence has something to do with one's diet. Actually, we should not underestimate the influence our dietary habits have on our mind and mood because the impact is quite significant. It's obviously preposterous to suggest that the human body 'evolved' to eat meat as if it's a superior concept. If anything, 'regressed' would make a more accurate rendering of that baseless theory. The fact is that, although man can consume flesh, it is very clear from both a physical and physiological point of view that God has designed our bodies having a preference for a meatless diet. Not only that but as stated above, in all the scriptures a vegetarian diet is stated by God as being the ideal diet for mankind. Nevertheless, it remains a matter of choice, it is up to you. Now to get back on how I don't see why a vegetarian can't be violent: Most vegetarians have at least an ethical if not a spiritual reason for abstaining from the consumption of meat. Although an indication of a mind more elevated and cleansed of the dust of ignorance than that of the meateater, a vegetarian could have a diet heavily imbibed with garlic, spicy foodstuffs and onions, creating alot of disturbance in the mind. More importantly, one can be a vegetarian without God in one's life and on that subject, Krishna says that those who eat food not offered to Him and which is prepared only for personal sense enjoyment verily eat only sin(B.G.:Ch3.13). Therefore, simply being a vegetarian alone doesn't make one nonviolent by definition. The lacking ingredient is Krishna. By thinking of Him, hearing of Him, worshipping Him, submitting fully onto Him, by glorifying Him, and by only eating prasadam, food sincerely offered onto the Lord and unmotivated by want of personal enjoyment, one will gradually lose his violent temperament and ahimsa,or nonviolence, one of the transcendental qualities of those of a divine nature will be prevalent instead. By truly submitting to the Supreme Lord one will automatically endeavour to be compassionate and nonviolent towards other living beings, the concomitant result being the realized knowledge of scriptures which in turn results in the knowledge that a vegetarian diet is the logical,civilized and only proper diet for man. This is why Sadhus (saintly persons) the world over have taken to a sober and simple vegetarian diet since time immemorial. Even in Muslim and Christian religion there have been since the and still are groups that strictly follow this principle. So the reason for taking to a vegetarian diet should first and foremost be out of love of God, before any ethical, economical or health reasons. Actually the majority of the Mayans were also vegetarians, which is not surprising since they were once a part of the global kingdom of Bharat. The Vedic culture and it's heritage has not been restricted to India, as careful scrutiny reveals that all ancient cultures have one common ancestor. That part of the world which is now known as Europe, in the Vedic scriptures has been described as the land of mlecchas, or uncivilized persons, meateaters, barbarians. We are in the age of Kali, this is Kali Yuga and as such europeans and Muslims have been quite succesful in conveying their ways to the rest of the world. At the time of Christ, the world was already thousands of years into Kali Yuga, in any case since written history. This makes it seem as though most of the human population has always been eating meat. But once more, since we're in Kali Yuga, I have to agree in that I also don't see it change anytime soon, though Caitanya Mahaprabhu predicted a golden age so this cloud has a silver lining. In any way, the way it is now is the way it was meant to be. This is a mean and ignorant statement. After the British rule, India has been turned from the world's wealthiest empire to a third world country. They have been squeezed for every drop as Britain and the rest of europe before them have exploited India to the maximum, building their civilizations mostly on the wealth of India. Ever wondered why Colombus called the native americans 'indians'? Every country in Europe was sailing out to India to get spices and other riches, and if they couldn't get it there, they'd sail to one of their neighbouring countries. This is how your meateating countries have managed to improve their life expectancy levels and lower the life expectancy of theirs. By exploitation of other nations. To return the favour of those exploited, they brought ruthless oppression and unkown diseases. So, today's life expectancy rate in India can only be contributed to the resultant poverty, which in turn results in poor living conditions, poor healthcare, corruption, pollution and dilapidated social structure and welfare. Clearly it has nothing to do with the vegetarian diet whatsoever. They are the result of Kali Yuga and Karma. An Indian sage was once asked what he thought of western civilization. He replied:"I think it is a good idea, when will it begin?" Hope this has cleared any misconceptions! Haribol!

Hare Krishna, I like your last post of 'when someone is trying to walk the path'. There's indeed no need to act all puffed-up as most western devotees stem from a meat-eating diet. This meat-eating diet unfortunately, is the commonly accepted way of west. Unfortunately so, because the west, and especially the USA, is having a huge influence on the rest of the world, even India is affected by it, despite it's culture coming through numerous brutal foreign occupations virtually unscathed. So it's clear that the lure of sense gratification is very strong, especially now in the age of Kali, when it is rampant. The responses you are getting are thus somewhat like an automatically triggered response, because western vegetarians/vegans are commonly challenged and criticized for their dietary habits. So here they have given you some replies which may seem a little harsh and bitter. That said, I do have to comment that in your initial post you have given us very little to work with. All you said was that it was a negative experience for you and that it felt strange. A little further on you expand on it by saying you didn't feel up to par on mentally and physically and also somewhat unwell. That is a little more helpful. The sollution to your dilemma may actually be remarkably simple. Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada often brought up the example of a jaundiced person. To this person, sweet things will taste very bitter. Now consider that most of the western world is in a state of jaundice. Therefore the sweet nectarean diet of Krishna can taste very bitter to those heavily intoxicated by western diet. In this case the simple sollution is to continue the Krishna diet, even though it at first may have a 'seemingly' averse effect on you. In actuality the diet is purging your body and your mind of the poisonous effects of a meat-eating diet. Bear in mind though that simply turning to vegetarian diet alone is not enough. The idea is to eat only prasadam, food offered to the Supreme Lord. Cook your vegetarian meals with only Krishna in your mind and not with the idea of filling your belly. At first this should not be hard for you since your body seems averse to vegetarian food . I recommend getting a few cookbooks from your local Krishna temple as there are so many delicious dishes inside that overrule the hankering for non-vegetarian food. In my case I instantly loved the 'Hare Krishna' cuisine and therefore have admittedly more times than not cooked for my own sense gratification. Anyway, as this is probably too daunting or difficult for you to do at home the best option is to visit the local temple as often as you can, as it is a double-take. You will hear nectarean knowledge and stories of the Supreme Lord, you will associate with devotees and you will get true prasadam. The more you visit the temple,hear and associate and partake of prasadam the sweeter it will taste. In this way you will gradually purge your sinful activities out of body and mind. I will leave you with a bit of copy/paste action. It's a section that seems relevant to all participants of this discussion. Haribol and good luck! Srila Prabhupada asked all his disciples to refrain from sinful activities, specifically the eating of meat, fish and eggs, the taking of intoxicants, engagement in illicit sex, and gambling. And yet, before coming to the West in 1965, Srila Prabhupada, like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati, was prepared, if need be, to relax the strict rules that govern the path of spiritual life. In the book ‘Prabhupada at Radha Damodara’ by Mahanidhi Swami, Srila Prabhupada’s good friend Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja recounts how Srila Prabhupada spoke of his desire to preach in Western countries: “I will establish boarding facilities for interested people. If they want, I will give meat also, and eggs also, and wine also. I believe that after hearing Hari Nam Sankirtan (the chanting of the holy names, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare) and the siksha (instructions) of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, then certainly they will reject all these things, and surely they will become pure Vaisnavas.” Great personalities like Lord Shiva, or great acharyas, may sometimes transgress conventional behaviour, but this is the exception and not the rule. We should also note in this connection that those who see such behaviour in an exalted Vaisnava and, not understanding their higher motives, dare to criticize them out of pride, are certainly condemned by the scriptures. The serious student on the spiritual path must endeavour to strictly follow the regulative life, as set out by Srila Prabhupada. The Bhagavad-gita, the most widely read of all India’s religious texts, states that the enjoyment which is derived from contact of the senses with their objects “appears like nectar at first but poison at the end.” Conversely, the pursuit of self-realization “in the beginning may be like poison but at the end is just like nectar.” Our condition is compared to the person suffering from jaundice, for whom sweet things taste bitter. As one becomes cured of the disease, his good taste returns. Similarly, one who takes to the path of Krishna consciousness may initially have no taste for such things, but if he progresses with care and attention he will soon relish the greatest nectar. (It is not necessary to elaborate on how sense gratification ultimately reveals itself as poison, for most of us will have had some first hand experience of this.)

Haribol, to the administrators and the people who keep this forum up and running I have a suggestion to make: When severe Vaisnava Aparadha is taking place, just like in this topic, is it possible to place some sort of warning sign next to the outside topic header indicating Aparadha is taking place inside? In this way I won't have to stumble on any corrupted and poisonous language. And if that is impossible, could the offenders please be banned? To enter into or continue a discussion with them right after they insult some of our greatest acharya's seems so awfully foul and wrong to me. Now, someone gravely insulting Bhaktivinode Thakur was more or less forced down my throat, which I must honestly say feels like a dagger is being stabbed through my heart. Thanks in advance Hare Krishna

Haribol, You see it as unfair problems being dumped on innocent persons, but if you try to see the bigger picture you could understand it is simply karma at work. All of our miseries are the results of our own actions, whether we like it or not, whether we can see the direct cause and effect or not. Now from the perspective of the passionate person who is attached to body and worldly objects,it may seem like that woman has done nothing wrong and she doesn't deserve this misery, but can we see what happened in a previous life, causing the effect in her life today? Only Krishna can. So if she chooses the abortion now, again some day she will have to obtain the fruits of that action, in this life or the next, and those fruits will never be sweet. So what should they do? Take to the Lord and start chanting and worshiping Him and try to raise the child in a Godconscious way, it will surely relieve her of all sins. Don't forget we're in Kali Yuga, the age of quarrel and dispute.

Haribol, first ask yourself why it is that it is "at odds" with today's world. The answer to that holds the answer to your question.

Hare Krishna, B.G.7.24: "Unintelligent men, who know Me not, think that I have assumed this form and personality. Due to their small knowledge, they do not know My higher nature, which is changeless and supreme." B.G.7.25: "I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My eternal creative potency [yoga-maya]; and so the deluded world knows Me not, who am unborn and infallible." Please forgive me, but from your post it seems evident that you are trying to grasp the concept of God by your own limited intellect, asking for scriptural evidence so you can decide from there. This is not only impossible but also not the way to achieve actual knowledge of God, nor the way to achieve a loving relationship with Him. Quoting from scriptures will not lead to the truth, but mostly to quarrel, for the flowery language of the Vedas is very confusing, especially if one tries to understand them without the proper guidance of a bonafide guru. The Srimad Bhagavatam is the gist of all the Vedas, the conclusion that confirms Krishna as being the Cause of all Causes. This doesn't mean Vishnu is lesser than Krishna (they are equal) but it does mean that Krishna was the One from which everything else has come into existence, The Cause of all causes. That is why we first say Krisna is the Supreme Bhagavan. Since the incarnation of Krishna, Srila Vyasadeva, is the author and compiler of all the Vedas, puranas and the Mahabharata, we have no reason to doubt the conclusion of His Srimad Bhagavatam,which is that Krishna is the Supreme cause of all causes,The Origin of all. That Bhagavatam which He wrote because He was not satisfied, even after writing so much about the numerous aspects of the Supreme. So when did He get satisfied? After He wrote about Krishna. Why Krishna and not Vishnu? Because of the rasa's contained in Krishna's pastimes, of which the rasa with the gopi's is considered to be the topmost, the most intimate relationship one can have with God, Krishna. Only with Krishna is this rasa possible. Krishna as Vishnu does not have these pastimes. So there is no need to demand quotes that mention Krishna in Rg,Sama,Yajur or Attharva Veda as if their age would give them more significance than the latter works because all are from the same author. This religion is no recent one, this is the one true sanatana dharma, the seed has always been there, and Krishna as Lord Caitanya came to water this seed recently. We do not limit God to one form only, of course He is all- pervading and Has countless Forms and Expansions, but that doesn't mean we can worship whimsically whatever God, Deity or object nor can we equate them all. If that were so, one could worship stool as Supreme because the Lord is all-pervading. No. So we take the instructions from Brahma to Sri Krishna Caitanya to Sri Guru (who all say that Krishna is the Supreme) and from the heart to us; the humble listener and aspirant devotee. "this is the universal truth acknowledged by all Vaishnvas except gaudiyas who say vishnu is the avatar of Krishna. SO you must provide evidence." This isn't a popularity contest, so any democratic voting system as to decide who is truly the Supreme is invalid by definition. For example, the USA is the most powerful country in the world, whatever they say goes, but does that mean they are always right? No. I could list instances of occurrences in the past where people were sent to the stake because their findings went against common belief even though they were true, but I think you get the point. "Hinduism is tolerate of other religions, but other Hindus aren't allowed to worship their beloved deities. Why aren't other Hindus allowed to worship Lord Krishna and other? Also, do you advise for the whole Hindu pantheon to be abandoned and have all hindus worship Lord Krishna, exclusively? What should happen to all the non-Krishna temples? Should they all be torn down, why? Why not have variety? Do you think what you're asking is fair?Also in the Bhagavad Gita, what is prescibed for Hindus who worship "demigods"? Please answer all my questions." Of course it is allowed. Why would we want to tear down non-Krishna temples? We don't demand this. Everybody is free to choose to their liking. Different people, different wants and needs. Actually, there are not many who take to the worship of Krishna: B.G.7.3: manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye yatatam api siddhanam kascin mam vetti tattvatah Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth. We are not forcing anybody to stop worshipping the demigods, not everybody is ready or looking for the Ultimate Truth. Some simply want more wealth or fame. Some want to merge into the Brahmajyoti effulgence of the Lord, others want to promote to the higher planets. That is that wonderful thing called free will. To obtain these goals, worship of the demigods such as Ganesha is recommended. This is what Krishna Has to say in the Gita about worship of demigods: B.G.7.20: kamais tais tair hrta-jnanah prapadyante 'nya-devatah tam tam niyamam asthaya prakrtya niyatah svaya Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures. B.G.7.21: yo yo yam yam tanum bhaktah sraddhayarcitum icchati tasya tasyacalam sraddham tam eva vidadhamy aham I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity. B.G.7.22: sa taya sraddhaya yuktas tasyaradhanam ihate labhate ca tatah kaman mayaiva vihitan hi tan Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone. B.G.7.23: antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam devan deva-yajo yanti mad-bhakta yanti mam api Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet. So it is clear that worship of demigods is done for different purposes than worship of Krishna. Worship of Krishna does not constitute economical or temporal benefits and this is simply what most people are looking for in this world, whether in India, Europe or Africa. Why? Maya. So why do we not worship the demigods? Because we seek to water the root of the tree, not the leaves or it's flowers. We do not seek to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of the material world. We simply wish to please Krishna and His devotees. This is not very appealing to most people as progression on this paths usually goes hand in hand with loss of material assets. But please do take note that this doesn't mean we disrespect or look down upon the demigods (not even by calling them "demigods") or any expansion or form of Krishna. Being singleminded is actually very beneficial when it comes to Krishna for as we please Krishna, the root cause of all causes, we please all else. Hope this helped you clear any misconceptions, and please forgive any errors on my behalf, Haribol!

Hare Krishna, I think you're missing the point here. The point is that we cease to eat meat by our own will when we decide to follow in the footsteps of the Vaisnavas. Why? Because common sense tells us that the slaughter of innocent animals for foodconsumption is a VERY negative and sinful path, no matter how thankful you may be.I have no clue of what thankfulness prayer can make right such a sinful act: "Oh, thank you mister butcherman for taking the animal's life,and thank you o unwittingly animal for getting killed for my sense gratification." Common sense and clear vision is what Krishna gives to you when you in all honesty try to follow in the footsteps of the Vaisnavas. Suddenly you become aware of how wrong these activities really are and you can't believe you did ever partake in them. Vaisnavas say that whenever an innocent animal seeks your shelter you need to protect and take care of it, not to kill it! Nobody kills their dog or cat. When a soul becomes trapped in an animal body due to previous activities it becomes free of karma. He will have to go through many cycles of animal life until he has payed back his debt,and then he will get a human birth. The human life is special and different from animal life only because of our ability to question our existence, to inquire about and serve God. If we do not do this and simply partake to sleeping, eating,defending and mating we are no different from animals. Unlike animals, humans can discern good activities from demoniac activities, we have a choice in doing good or bad and as such we are subject to the law of karma. The cow is one of a few others(If I remember correctly they are cow,horse,tiger and monkey) that is the last animal lifeform before obtaining a human body again, and this among many other reasons is why it's such a great sin to kill a cow. The soul entrapped in the animal body is not able to complete its "cowterm" and is forced to come back in an animal body once more and live it out again. This knowledge which any Vaisnava has makes it impoosible for him/her to continue the meateating process, and in fact there are probably too many reasons to list for living on a meat/fish/egg free diet, the least of which is probably the health issues,of which the results of researches are not surprisingly in favor of those not consuming meat and such. One cannot be a Vaisnava and continue to eat meat, this is impossible, as they would become hypocrites and their word would become worthless, because they wouldn't be living what they stand for.A true Vaisnava is a friend to all, even to great sinners and demons, they only take as little as is needed for their own survival,and when they do they offer their food to Krishna. It is actually a great fortune for a soul trapped in a plantlife to have it's body be taken by a Vaisnava. Because Vaisnavas are equal to all and see Krishna everywhere they could never allow themselves to take to unnecessary and ignorant foodpatterns, such as meateating, this would be completely unthinkable. Fora Vaisnava there is nothing to feel superior about being vegetarian really. It is simply how a good, God-loving human is supposed to live. No Vaisnava feels superior because of his vegetarianism, but rather they feel sad for all those humans who have become slaves to their own senses and are lost. Hope this helps, Haribol!

Haribol, you said: "Hence I reject all God positioning propaganda by so called commentaries and one sided purports. I mean if we look at it objectively, commentairies are written by a person belonging to one sampradaya. His commentary is bound to be heavily influenced by his sampradaya that stresses on one or other side of the Lord. Though Srila Prabhupada made wonderful commentaries. I will also be delighted by commentaries of a person who has achieved direct vision and divine perception of the Lord!" I would first like to make the strong apprehension that this sort of statement is simply Vaisnava Aparadha. It is very offensive to claim that a bonafide guru isn't graced by the Supreme with direct perception of Him. By saying "though Srila Prabhupada made wonderful commentaries", it is like saying in belittlement that they are just a collection of subjective and fancy words of propaganda and nothing more. By following it up with the statement "I will also be delighted by commentaries of a person who has achieved direct vision and divine perception of the Lord!", you are knowingly or unknowingly indicating that you think His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada was in fact a mundane person and a mental speculator without actual spiritual realization. Therefore you have commited the greatest offense. I beg you for your own welfare to pray for forgiveness on this horrible act. As for Arjuna, He is a completely liberated soul, and He is known as the close friend of Sri Krishna. As we are all aware, in order to sing His gloriously divine message to the world, Krishna put Arjuna in such a state of relative ignorance so that His pastime may be enacted nicely and the instruction handed over by the Supreme Guru Sri Krishna. So on account of His relationship with Krishna, Arjuna is to be glorified at all times. However, being a pure devotee of Sri Krishna in this age of Kali is so rare,that He may hold a similar status if not an even greater status than that of the great soul Arjuna. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking that all we do and realize nowadays is through books and books alone. This is not what the Guruparampara is about at all. The scriptures are a great and necessary tool, but unalloyed devotion is the means, and all of these bonafide gurus have attained that status of pure devotion, be they Srila Prabhupada, Bhakti Promod Puri or Bhaktivinoda Thakur. So there is no question of dry speculation and one sided views on their behalf. Their insight and realization is pure, beyond books and scriptures. Srila Prabhupada Himself stated that quotation and counterquotation from the scriptures will never reach any ultimate resolution, so it is therefore imperative that we simply accept the word of Sri guru on account of His status as a pure devotee. So you may reject God positioning all you want, and disregard those "so-called" commentaries and purports altogether, however you are not at the stage of these great and saintly souls, therefore your vision holds no weight.So there is no question who is actually confused, for it certainly isn't the spiritual master. The spritual master is a self-realized soul and His knowledge surpasses the speculative knowledge as He always resides on the spiritual plane. Krishna clearly states in the Gita that you surrender fully to His pure devotee, so submit and listen to Him, take His instructions to heart. Krishna clearly states that He is the Supreme cause of all causes. So where is the need to speculate on who is equally Supreme? Here Krishna is presented in full opulence as the Supreme Lord, so why go on speculating? So just take to Krishna Bhakti and stop this nonsensical debate. Become His devoteee, stop doubting, stop this mental speculation. If one does not take the instructions of Gurudeva to heart and disrespect His commentary the creeper of devotion will never sprout but will simply wither and the heart will remain of stone. Hare Krishna!

Hare Krishna, There are four regulative principles: 1. No eating of meat,fish,eggs, onion & garlic. 2. No illicit sex 3. No intoxication 4. No Gambling Whatever drugs you can name is intoxication, be it caffeine, tobacco, cannabis, lsd, mushrooms etc.etc. So what is this intoxication? A chemical process in the body. That's all. Nothing spiritual ever comes from it, what you experience is merely an illusion within an illusion. Even in the case of native Americans it is simply a case of begetting a different perception of the material world, not of the spiritual world. So the shamans can have visions, but they are all on the material plane. Krishna is beyond the material plane, so to obtain Him, transcendental activities are required. What are these transcendental activities? Krishna describes them. Krishna is not obtained cheaply. Krishna provides for your wants and needs. If you want to forget about Him, He will give you the means to do so. This is why we are here. Hope this clears things up! Haribol!

Hare Krishna, Not sure about Christians as there is no prescription that prescribes the eating of meat, however in the case of Islam it is clearly stated in the Qu'ran that meat-eating is allowed under strict regulations. I.e. the creature should be slaughtered according to a specific ritual and whilst uttering the name of God etc. Since it is thus allowed by Allah,God, it cannot condemn them to hell. They don't go by the Vedic scriptures, they go by their own scriptures and therefore have different jurisdiction and consequently a different level of God-realization. We should all observe the principles of time & circumstance, God's message to guide a certain people, like when Muhammed preached the Qu'ran. Given the desert environment, and the type of people living in that environment, a certain religious prescription is made specifically for those people in such circumstances. But now Islam has spread worldwide, to different habitats, but they keep the principles set for the original time & circumstance. Vedic scriptures are the universal standard,the original dharma and they address every time & circumstance. However, different people, different tastes, so God can deliver specific temporary dharma's to guide a specific people with specific needs, as in the case of Christianity, Islam, Bhuddism etc.. Haribol!

Good, then I assume you understand now that you've gotten the answers without a dogmatic approach.

Jay Srila Prabhupada! A beautiful and truthful plea for sanity by our beloved acharya.

I'm no nihilist, I'm a realist. How could I be a nihilist and involve myself in Krishna consciousness at the same time? I am simply stating the facts here, while your reply only serves as further proof that we are in Kali Yuga. This person who replied to "Srikant's query" is just concocting his own nonsensical theories. My advice to you is therefore to stick to proper science, the science of self-realization as laid out by Krishna Himself, and upheld 'as-it-is' by the bonafide spiritual masters, instead of following modern science and selfclaimed swamis. In that way, the spell of illusion and ignorance shall gradually wear off. Haribol!

It doesn't matter whether or not it is healthy or nutricious, we don't eat these things not only because they promote the mood of ignorance, but also because we don't need to eat them to survive. Milk, grains, fruit and vegetables are more than enough for humans to survive, and we simply don't take more than is required for survival. That is the main reason and that should be the sole reason for any intelligent man to abstain from eating them. Haribol!

"we certainly are not in a age of ingnorance and darkness. as kaliyugu is called." Well, I don't know where you are living, or under what rock you have been hiding, but I seriously doubt anyone can sincerely call the past 4000 years of history going on to this very day a very enlightened, non-hypocritical and peaceful world. Unless that same big rock has hit you in the head a bit too hard maybe. Don't forget we're still only in the intro of this Yuga. You seem to think that the advancements made in science are some kind of proof of things getting better. What good is getting old if you're not learning who you are, why you are here and where you are going? Actually, this so-called scientific advancement (especially the way it is trying to disprove God) is greatly helping in our spritual downfall, thus further promoting ignorance and plunging us into spiritual darkness. Spiritual progression first and foremost ,and not scientific progression is the standard to look for in an advanced civilization. Also looking at the behaviour of people in general, they seem to be careless, moral has hit an all-time low, they are unethical,bored extremely quick and have short attention spans, and still meat-eating and maintaining horrible slaughterhouses cause ghastly holocausts everyday, keeping men in ignorance and darkness (I tend to think the amount of growth hormones present in the meat are the main cause for the growth of today's western population). Coarse language rules everyone's mouth today, it's now commonly accepted and if you don't accept it you're a relic, hypocrisy rules everywhere, even in religious environments,where swamis and priests force little boys to have sex with them,it's a disgusting hypocrisy. Quarrel is present everywhere, broken homes&torn families. Sex is sold cheap and smacked in your face on every street corner,in every magazine and on the TV, women dress and behave like whores, mass adultery takes place, increases in rape, murder statistics are off the chart, drug use is rampant,there's famine,disease,irreligion, greed, as the lungs of the earth get chopped and burned for bits of money, dangerously frail atomic powerplants are again on the rise,pollution is turning rivers into dead places of crazy colors,the seas are emptied of their fish to feed the greedy mouth of men, U.S. war spending and budget is now so huge it has dwarfed all other spendings and budgets, the governments are corrupt,the leading men of society are just as lost as the followers, the law has now become a mere entertainment show where the smartest lawyer can set free the biggest criminals because they know the holes, wars are now fought over oil and xenofobia, under a false pretense of liberating countries,war has become a bloody and lucrative business, the list goes on and on. Instead you seem to be totally oblivious to all these hard facts. It's nice for you that your are living in Pleasantville Kalifornia or whatever but out there this is really happening every day. So there's no such thing as parroting, since I am actually witnessing this myself on a daily basis, even in my 'quiet' neighbourhood. I rather find "it impossible to disprove this negative". "all answers are only parrotings. not all the spiritual masters make claim to this being kaliyuga." Names please, as every single bonafide spiritual master I've ever read or heard from confirms that this is the age of Kali Yuga. So, I hope you'll stop fooling yourself. In the meantime I'll just stick to the scriptures and the proper explanations of them by our bonafide spiritual masters and listen to the voices of reason. Haribol!

Excerpt of Prabhupada Memories from Gauridasa Pandita Prabhu: "We were always happy when Srila Prabhupada was telling a joke but when he was upset about something watch out. Actually in the four months that I personally served Srila Prabhupada I only saw him get angry about two things. One was the slamming of the guest house doors which he could hear from his garden and the other was when he found out that his books were being edited without his authorization." Need I say more?