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shambu

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Everything posted by shambu

  1. I mean, when you say that Prabhupada said that blacks were supposed to serve the whites, you should be pretty sure he actually said that, and be able to give solid reference. Becuase it's a kind of statement that is pretty sure to arouse some pretty hard feelings all around. He could have said it, allright - Prabhupada said some amazing things sometimes. But every of his spoken (and written) statements should be considered within their context. This particular statement, that "Prabhupada said that blacks were supposed to serve the whites," could for instance have been made within the context of the ancient Varnashram-system, not at all applicable to the modern day situation... If he said it at all (which I doubt). It is more like a statement fully approvable by any member of the famous Ku-Klux-Clan, if I spell this correctly. Many devotees come up with quotations of Prabhupada that are totally unfounded. These are more or less the quotations from their own minds, I guess. Or from hearsay. One devotee once told me, "Prabhupada said: black skin - black heart." Where did he get it from? His own racist mind, I am sure. So please be careful when saying, "Prabhupada said this or that." You're supposedly quoting a Mahatma, you know... Haribol.
  2. "He may be a man, he may be a woman, he may be a sudra, he may be a brahmana or he may be black or he may be white. Everyone can approach to the highest platform of devotional service. It is open field." Yeah, even a dog can attain Vaikuntha by Lord Caitanya's mercy. It's in the CC (don't know where, sorry!) So what to speak of a black (or a woman!) Great stuff, this Krsna-consciousness!
  3. I can remember that Prabhupada said: "You American boys & girls are all born in very nice cultured families..." and praising them for joining the Krsna-conscious movement. He also said that Europeans were actually descendents of Ksatriya-clans that fled from India (Bharata) out of fear for the punishment of Parasurama. So his view of Europeans doesn't seem all that negative on the whole. As far as mlecchas and yavanas is concerned - these are denominations for those peoples who are meat-eaters (cow-killers especially), not following Vedic culture, so this DOES apply to those of European descent and shouldn't necessarily be taken as an insult. He also criticized Indians sometimes for their "hodgepodge Hinduism" devoid of a clear religious concept. So Hindus could also feel "offended" by some of his words.
  4. In Bg. 10-34 Lord Krsna says: mrtyuh sarva-haras caham "I am all devouring death." So all will be killed (and are continuously being killed) by Krsna anyway. But Death can take many forms. Kalki is just one of them. PURPORT: "As soon as a man is born, he dies at every moment. Thus death is devouring every living entity at every moment, but the last stroke is called death itself. That death is Krsna."
  5. I heard from BV Narayan Maharaj that Kalki Avatar is not supposed to come in this Kali Yuga. Reason? In this particular Kali Yuga Chaitanya Mahaprabhu appeared. He is the Yuga Avatar (although "hidden"), so that rules out the possiblity for yet another Yuga Avatar. Sounds logical? The question then remains who is going to end this Kali Yuga. Is Kalki really necessary? And in what way is this "...theory..." supported by other authoritative sources? What scriptures confirm this? Is it anywhere mentioned or hinted at in Prabhupada's books? Some people are desperately looking for Kalki. Why not look for Krsna? Kalki will come with a sword and kill you (and me). What mercy!
  6. "One school of thought says that the maha-mantra should be chanted in the following sequence: hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare This understanding is based on the following points: 1) The Kali-santarana Upanisad, published by Venkatesh Press, Mumbai, states that this maha-mantra begins with the words Hare Rama etc. followed by Hare Krsna etc. 2) In a book called Kalyana from Gorakhpura, the maha-mantra is written in the above mentioned sequence. 3) Sri Rama appeared in Treta-yuga. Later Sri Krsna appeared in Dvapara-yuga. It is therefore logical to chant Hare Rama first and then Hare Krsna. The above mentioned views are both illogical and unfounded: 1) Earlier publications of the Kali-santarana Upanisad by Venkatesh Press, Mumbai, clearly state that the maha-mantra begins with Hare Krsna and not with Hare Rama. These earlier publications are still preserved in libraries in Calcutta and Jaipura. 2) Kalyana, published by Gita Press, Gorakhpura, is not a bonafide proof with which to support the above perspective. 3) That Treta-yuga is followed by Dvapara-yuga has no effect on the eternal maha-mantra. The maha-mantra is beyond all yugas and time." So far a quotation from "Sri Hari-Nama Maha-Mantra" chapter two, The Sequence of the Maha-Mantra, published by Gaudiya Vedanta Publications. I would like to add that the word "Rama" in the maha-mantra is taken by Gaudiya Vaisnavas as an other name of Lord Krsna, not referring to Sri Ramacandra from Treta Yuga. Thus the third argument in regards to the sequence of different yugas is made valueless. Also it is doubtful whether any importance is to be attached to the maha-mantra being mentioned in this or that way according to recent publications of ancient scriptures. The best argument in favour of the maha-mantra to be starting with Hare Krsna instead of Hare Rama, is indeed that this is the way it was chanted and propagated by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the initiator of the Sankirtan movement, that later came to be known as the Hare Krsna movement in the Western counties and throughout the world. In most Hindu-temples chanting of this mantra is also still prevalent but in the reversed order. Also their understanding of this mantra seems to be different, as well as the importance attached to it. As far as I know it is never used by them for japa-meditation, only as part of their public services and rituals.
  7. Thank You for allowing me to share this with you. I may fall sick if I don't reveal my mind to someone sometimes. Other "guest" (last reply), also Thank You. Your comment touches the essence.
  8. Thank you, guest, for your very transcendental reply (without sarcasm at all). On some points you may very well be right. HOWEVER: whenever any acharya introduces novelties in preaching & practice, this is still done so within the bounderies of both sastra-siddhanta and general etiquette (sadacara). If not, his actions will only cause havoc and disunity. There is, for example, a statement in sastra, that says that a guru who initiates a lot of unqualified disciples, will go to hell. It is simply stated like that. Do you think that there is a person claiming to be a Vaisnava-guru or acharya so exceptional and powerful that he can initiate indiscriminately without having to suffer the reactions? That would mean this person is God Himself, and as we all know, guru is not God. This is another misconception. As far as Bhaktisiddhanta is concerned - he only applied the principle of yukta-vairagya. He never went beyond that. And the same can be said of Swami Prabhupada. I think a guru or acharya doesn't HAVE to change something or "do something unexpected." Rather his duty is to preserve the essence of whatever he has received from the previous acharyas. The form may change, according to time, place and circumstances, but the essence will remain.
  9. "Don't be pressured into "initiation". The pressure is there to find Krsna." Can you imagine being "pressured" into initiation? I can, because I was. I got strongly involved with the disciples of Narayana Maharaja, and ended up being initiated (Harinama) by the latter, even though I was already initiated by a still practicing devotee in ISKCON (Lokanatha Maharaja). This caused me to end up confused and frustrated. Actually I never formally requested for (re)initiation by Narayana Maharaja. Just somebody (for whom I was doing some regular service at that time) put me on a list of initiation-candidates when Narayana Maharaja came to visite here 4 years back. I had broken away from the ISKCON-society (actually just "blooped") and developed a critical view towards them. Everybody I knew from that group told me to do it (take initiation), even though I was quite doubtful myself whether it was a wise thing or not. But I took it as the will of destiny and got a new name and mala and everything. Within a short time I realized that I probably made a big mistake and right now I have completely broken with the sanga of Narayana Maharaja and his devotees. And I have developed a very critical attitude towards them now. The main problem with these people is that they are suffering from tunnel-vision syndrom. Any type of criticism or even doubt uttered in their direction immediately makes them very upset. For instance they stiffly maintain that Prabhupada and their guru are preaching the exactly same thing, that only the form is somewhat different etc. This is total nonsense. Anyone who doesn't see the obvious differences must be completely blind. Furthermore they adore their guru-maharaja as the factual "spiritual successor" of HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, which is a bold but also unfounded and maybe even offensive claim. I think anyone who wants to put himself on equal (or even higher) level as Swami Prabhupada must be out of his mind and a crude offender. Why they don't consider this? And in what way Narayana Maharaja is serving his "siksa-guru"? By "re-initiating" his grand-disciples and instructing them how to become sakhis of Rupa Manjari? Is this Prabhupada's mission? I think Prabhupada would be outraged to hear how his Society is being hollowed out by such efforts. In my vision Narayana Maharaja is just taking advantage of an unstable and weakened situation in ISKCON with the aim of establishing his own alternative "ISKCON," instead of actually helping and supporting the Society established by his "siksa-guru and priya-bandhu" (Srila Prabhupada), as he would have desired. Here in the Netherlands Narayana Maharaja initiated MORE THAN 300 PERSONS (mainly from Hindu background) and out of them all maybe 30 are known to be practicing devotees who congregate regularly. Most of them probably ended up on initiation-lists made up by overzealous "devotees" who were very eager to make some positive impression on their Gurudeva. I know more initiated devotees of Narayana Maharaja who are full of doubts and really "on the fringe" than I know "fixed-up" and enthousiastic devotees of his. Sorry to tell you this, but this is just a fact. Also I know quite a number who totally disappeared from the scene shortly after being initiated. This is all due to the vague inition-standards set by Narayana Maharaja and his society of followers. Factually nobody is refused harinama-initiation as long as you are at least declaring to be a vegetarian and chant a few rounds of Hare Krishna-mantra daily. I say "declaring to," because in facuality this isn't checked by anyone. Many devotees who couldn't get initiation in ISKCON because of the high standards for initiation there, just took advantage by taking initiation from Narayana Maharaja (for "the wrong reasons"), without having any decent notion of who Narayana Maharaja actually is, and what he is preaching, being pushed forward by others. This leaves me with a strong suspicion that there is a certain "disciple-hunger" within the personality of Narayana Maharaja. Even though most of his disciples will maintain that his readiness to initiate anyone and everyone is just a token of his unbounded "mercy." But what is this "mercy" good for when people (like me) end up having troubles and confusion after being persuaded and pressured to take (re)initiation by Narayana Maharaja? And why are many of his disciples claiming to be visited in dreams by their guru? Is this a proof of his power? Disciples of Satya Sai Baba say exactly the same thing. At least he never appeared in my dreams... Furthermore I would like to add that many disciples of Narayana Maharaja are undoubtedly sympathetic and qualified personalities. Many of them are quite learned and have a high standard of sadhana. Only as soon as it comes to discuss points of criticism and personal doubts, they always become upset and panic-stricken. "Oh, then you have to write a letter to this Maharaja or that Maharaja, or to Narayana Maharaja himself." In this way they try to secure their own peace of mind, being unable to defend the position and dealings of their own guru-maharaja on the basis of logic and sastric eveidence, it seems. Their only reply is that it is all just a question "of the heart" and of having this specific feeling of "love" that attaches them to their gurudeva, and that one should not engage in useless discussions that will only generate possible doubts. I think that this is a sign of sentimentalism and a tendency towards blind following that were not endorsed by Srila Prabhupada, the Founder-acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I have may more things to say, but I will conclude here. Comments are welcome and please excuse me if I offended anyone...
  10. Yesterday I picked up a book and in the introduction there was a reference to The Disciplic Succession. The four bonafide Vaisnava-sampradayas were mentioned, and they identified themselves as belonging to the "Brahma Mathura Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya." What is this? I never heard of this name. Obviously the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya was meant, because all the appropiate Acharyas in that line were listed. It was mentioned twice (2x), so I figured it could not be a blunt mistake. Can anybody give me some useful information on this issue? Thanks! Haribol.
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