shambu

Dear All,

 

wherever I chant the Hare Krishna mantra, I start getting angry and remembering some unresolved issues. More I chant, the more my anger rises. Finally I stop chanting. Why is this happening? What kind of experiences other people had when starting to chant this mantra? Thanks.

I had the same problem, Sandy, and finally stopped chanting!

The standard reply to this question would be that this anger is a sign of an impure mind and that the only way to get rid of that is to keep on chanting. I have been chanting for seven years, sixteen rounds daily, but instead of getting less the feelings of lust and anger just increased! And not only anger - also feelings of sadness, depression even, and total despair and inner emptiness resulted while chanting! OMG I must be an offender!

I think my eyes are not the way they used to be. I cant see those defects in the picture mentioned above. Maybe I need to focus more my eyes on that wonderful boy from Vrndavan playing the flute. Frolicking in the forest with his cowherd friends.

You should look at this picture in its original size:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Universal_Form.jpg

Why are you pointing at a happy picture where I am trying to point at an unhappy picture? Evasiveness is all-pervading, both with the spiritualist and with the non-spiritualist...

What is Lord holding in his right hand, the one with the chakra? Can anybody tell me? It's a conspiracy, I am telling you.

Thanks Shiva prabhu, this looks good!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaitanya_Mahaprabhu

 

Just one more thing they uploaded a pic, "Universal Form",

 

Wonder what this is where I put the question mark?

 

This picture has some horrific aspects....

Aside from the gruesome face in the back you pointed at, I am seeing another creepy face on Lord's chest, reddish with blood, and one of the Visnu forms is holding a sword which is red with blood as well at the top near the hand. Also the suggestion is made that the central figure has a hollow inside wherein a fire is burning, something like an all-consuming sacrificial fire. Advaita Acarya has a big stain of blood on his dhoti. It looks as if he is being persuaded by Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to offer himself to Moloch and is begging to be excused from his fate...

I wonder who put this devilish work together. The devil himself?

Yeah, I agree. I am normally on discussion fora with a lot of atheists and they always come up with this silly dogma that wars are caused by religion. It is part of their "believe system" so to speak, and they get very annoyed when you try to convince them this is not 100% true.

I have spent some time in Surinam, and have noticed that local Hindus there also plant flags in their gardens. They are called dhjandis and are red, orange or sometimes white in color and have something to do with Hanuman-worship. I have no idea what they represent or where this tradition comes from. Maybe they represent victory flags of Hanumanji. Also in neighbouring country Guyana planting dhjandis (or jhandis) is common practice:

Guyanese in Florida ordered to stop flying jhandi flag

-looks like 'a torn, tattered towel in a tree,' says community board

Not all Hindus display jhandis, but the flags are common among Hindus from the Caribbean, said Sannyasin Arumugaswami, managing editor of the Hawaii-based magazine Hinduism Today.

 

That's because many of the Hindus who moved to Caribbean countries such as Guyana and Trinidad arrived in the 19th century from an area in central India - often called the Bhojpuri Belt - where jhandis are common, he said.

In addition to their religious significance, the flags have a cultural significance, Sharma said.

They are a way for a person to tell the world that he or she is Hindu and proud of it.

 

Maybe it's also including governers, mayors... presidents of boy-band fan clubs ...

Yes, certainly. Also including some school headmasters and the owners of certain websites I suppose...

He will kill by the millions those thieves who have dared dress as kings.

Is this to be taken literally? "Millions of kings" sounds illogical, so does it refer to "haughty persons" in general?

Kalki is mentioned in the Mahabharata (though there he is not noted as an avatar) and in various Puranas, including the Vishnu Purana (4.24.18). It says that he will be the destroyer of the mlecchas and thieves who are reigning as kings at the end of Kaliyuga. There is no mention there of his white horse.

 

My understanding is that the transition from Kali to Krita Yuga is an automatic progression of time and is not caused by Kalki. He just comes to sort out the residual problems of Kaliyuga by delivering the righteous from the clutches of wicked rulers.

The problem here seems to me that at the end of Kali Yuga there will be hardly any righteous people left, according to scripture. So why take the trouble to cut all the degenerates' heads?

Prabhupada said Kalki especially comes to kill all the demons at the end of Kali Yuga, so that's why I am asking this.

Here's a 18th century image of Kalki, with sword and horse:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Kalki1.jpg

I don't want to criticize, but you're all getting totally adrift right here. The original topic was how Kalki would be able to cut all demon's heads while riding a horse. I would advice some administrative intervention.

Sects, gurus......

The "proof" also appears to be a hoax. Cool.

What if scientists discover there IS vegetation on the moon, however? Any credit to them?

I wasn't thinking of Narayana the Swami, immediately. Primarily Narayana is another name for God, or Visnu. The whole universe is completely under the rule of Narayana, according to shastra and authorities, so the answer must be "yes". What made you think that dhanny etc. was talking about this Swami, GuesttseuG, since a guru doesn't own any Universe normally speaking?

There will be a lunar eclipse today as well. Does this have any significance, spiritually or materially?

It is a pity that 'politics' seem to ruin many a discussion (this group vs. that group). I would prefer to take things to a more 'personal' level..... So, GuestAdas, maybe you could post a picture of yourself here so we can judge your 'sattvic-ness'. Hahahaha.

Yes, I am getting your point, GuestAdas!

Why do you have to re-quote the whole thing again? Do you think your quotation of the original in italics holds any improvement? I cannot read it properly!

I have become somewhat short-sighted lately, so for me large and [bold] letters are quite convenient....

poster known as krsna: could you try posting in a smaller font, I just disregard all your posts and threads because they bug out my eyes. No need to 'shout'.

I disagree. Better a too big lettertype than a too small one. And a big lettertype doesn't necessarily mean there is a question of "shouting". This depends on the contents and tone of the message. Big letters make one feel like a small child, trying to read what the schoolmaster has written on the blackboard. Feels good to me!

Everyone was chanting except for you. You just don't have the ears to hear or the eyes to see who is pure devotee.

Only a pure devotee can see who is another pure devotee. So you are saying that all those who say NM is a pure devotee are qualified to see who is a pure devotee?

What about:

OM NAMO SHIVAYAH?

I remember reading once a letter from Srila Prabhupada to a disciple where he says that most of his disciples were Indians in their previous life.

 

Does anyone with a full Vedabase or letter archive know of this letter from Srila Prabhupada and can they post it on the forum?

I cannot imagine that Prabhupada would have said that, with all due respect. I do remember a quote from Prabhupada where he said many of his disciples could be DeMiGoDs, descended from the higher planets to assist him. Believe it or not. Anyone with full Vedabase could look that up? In particular I don't believe that Prabhupada said most of his disciples were Indians in their previous lives, because he always tried to stress the universal nature of KC ("We are not Indians, Americans, male, female - we are spirit souls", these things he stressed time and time again). Of course India is Punya Bhumi, the pious land. But he also stated his disciples (except for a few "demigods") didn't have any pious credits from previous lives. "I created your sukrti" was also one of his sayings....

Hail good folk!

 

This is a message to all European descended kith and kin. The Indian Dharma is a beautiful and wise path, but perhaps, it is proper only for Indians. The teachings are universal no doubt, but the culture in which they developed and the mindset in which it has been influenced are not. They are the sole heritage of the Indian folk. Germans, Celts, Slavs, Italians, and the like have their own ancient faiths which while trampled on with long ages of terror, hatred, and bigotry by Christianity and Islam, have been reborn and are calling out to reclaim their own people. I ask you not to just drop anything, and if you research and find it all to be worthless, you certainly won't have to fear "hell" or any such nonsense. I only ask that, if you still hold your heritage dear, look into the old Gods and faith of your people and their way of looking at the world. For fellow Germanics, search "Asatru" and "Heathenry". May the Gods see you!

 

~Shawn

I presented someone with the contents of your post, and this is the answer he gave:

An important, but sometimes misunderstood or even unknown, aspect of the ancient "pagan" religions, particularly (but not only) the Indo-European ones, including those of India: there are two general "tiers" or "levels" of religiosity, one of which is often tied directly to one's body's heritage, and the other of which is universal. On the lower level, we have the karma-kanda level, which is often defined by jati-dharma (the religion of the tribe or so-called "caste"). The karma-kanda means that section of religion that is involved with simply trying to be pious, and to achieve material well-being thereby. On the higher level, we have the jnana- and

bhakti-kandas, the level of seeking enlightenment and union with the Absolute (however that be understood in one's philosophy and theology). This is a pattern that is normal in most or all of the Indo-European cultures,and others as well. Even in the Abrahamic fanatic cults where there is theoretically supposed to be only blind faith in the one claimed to be "God", most of the people are really only on the karma-kanda level, withonly a few saints actually achieving spirituality.

The higher level is what really deserves and takes the name "Sanatana Dharma", or the similar European phrase "Philosophia Perennis". And people on this higher, transcendental level of vision are much more likely than those on the karma-kanda level to see their own similarities with those on this level from other cultures. Practical experience has shown this... "interfaith" discussions and cooperation are far more popular among those who are on, or who seek, the higher or esoteric level than those on the exoteric level.

People who are on the karma-kanda level, at least those who are content to stay there, should indeed adhere to their body's ancestral heritage. (Although this gets much more complicated for those of us with several different ethnic roots in the family tree...) Those who seek the higher levels, however, are perfectly justified in finding and accepting the tradition and teacher(s) that truly best suit their needs and their realization. Too, karma and other influences have their effect on which spiritual tradition one ends up in.

So, one who is of Germanic ancestry could seek higher spirituality through the ancient Germanic higher traditions, such as in the ways of Lord Woden and the runes; or he might instead find his way in Gaudiya Vaisnavism or any other tradition.

Another important point in response to this person's post is that all of the Indo-European traditions are alike part of the Indo-European family, and although they are distinct from each other in some ways, in other ways they share many similarities, common customs, legal principles, even sometimes rituals. Thus, none of those in this family of peoples are really alien to the others. Even if one might in principle prefer all to keep to the customs of their own ancestors, is it not at least preferable to adopt a closely

related culture. Too, many people from European cultures choose to adopt Indian culture instead because of the pragmatic truth that the Christians and Muslims did manage to destroy much of the aspects of European culture that they did not choose to steal and use for their own purposes. While much has survived despite their efforts, there is much knowledge that is lost, and some people simply prefer to join a relatively complete branch of the family instead. Even the Indian tradition has lost much, as the tradition itself recognizes (eg, the authorities maintain that the complete Veda was much bigger than the parts of the four Samhitas which are now available) but it is mostly still there, instead of having the great losses that our European traditions must deal with.

BTW, this concept of large parts of the original Veda being lost to India does leave open the possibility that aspects of ancient European sacred literature and "mythology" that are not found in India could be remnants of those lost portions.

Finally, a brief mention of the theological issues: on the higher level, the Absolute Truth, Supreme Being is One; on the lower level, the many Gods (devas, Latin dii, Celtic deuoi, etc.) have their function, and although only a few names can be traced as shared among the various branches, the various Gods and Goddesses in the Indo-European world (and to a lesser extent, various other traditions) can be seen to generally correspond by functions and duties, even when not by names. If one recognizes a common

origin to the Indo-European peoples and their cultures and religions, it follows logically that the Gods among them are not really different, they have just shown themselves in slightly different ways to meet different needs in different areas. Of course, this is only a general picture, and the details are more complex to understand.

I am asking for the devotees to please present references from Srila Prabhupada in his books and lectures etc. where he describes ISKCON as being Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Are you doubting in any way that ISKCON is a branch of Gaudiya Vaisnavism? I think Prabhupada hardly referred to ISKCON as being specifically Gaudiya, because he wanted to distinguish his intitution from the already existing Gaudiya institutions in India, generally referred to as Gaudiya Math, that he didn't want to identify with at that time. Also he wanted to emphasize the universal aspect of Krishna consciousness. "Gaudiya Vaisnavism" in a sense sounds rather limited and sectarian, as if it is supposed to be practiced only by Gaudiyas, or people from Bengal.

One could say that ISKCON is another Gaudiya Math - nowadays quite a few Gaudiya Math institutions have spread their activities all over the world, inspired by Prabhupada's succes, so not only ISKCON can claim to be an international Gaudiya institution. They all share the same basic ideas, sing the same devotional songs, read the same books and accept the same Guru-varga etc.

At the time when Prabhupada founded ISKCON and wrote his books, he was "at loggerheads" with most Gaudiya institutions and acharyas, so that's probably why he avoided calling ISKCON Gaudiya Vaisnavism. He wanted to stress that his Society was an independent one, and that Krishna-consciousness is universal in nature and not sectarian.

Somewhere in Caitanya Caritamrta Prabhupada speaks about the "Caitanya Tree", explaining that ISKCON is supposed to be one branch of that tree. Maybe some devotee could come up with the exact quote. Haribol.

Madhva Gaudiya etc. The question is though what the Madhva part of the sampradaya is. Getting initiation into for example ISKCON, you receive Hare Krishna mantra, guru mantras, kama-gayatri and Gopala mantra, etc. But none of those mantras are part of the initiation in the line of Madhva. The teachings are not the same either, so it is clearly not a branch of the Madhva line - different teachings and different mantras.

Madhvas don´t accept that Krishna Chaitanya is an avatara either.

Caitanya-caritamrta, Madyam lila 9:277

<CENTER></CENTER>

Purport: Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura points out that the word "Tattvavadi" refers to the followers of Srila Madhvacarya. To distinguish his disciplic succession from the Mayavadi followers of Sankaracarya, Srila Madhvacarya named his party the Tattvavadis. Impersonal monists are always attacked by these Tattvavadis, who attempt to defeat their philosophy of impersonalism. Generally, they establish the supremacy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Actually the disciplic succession of Madhvacarya is known as the Brahma Vaisnava sect; that is the sect coming down from Lord Brahma. Consequently the Tattvavadis, or followers of Madhvacarya, do not accept the incident of Lord Brahma's illusion, which is recorded in the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srila Madhvacarya has purposefully avoided commenting on that portion of Srimad-Bhagavatam in which brahma-mohana, the illusion of Lord Brahma, is mentioned. Srila Madhavendra Puri was one of the acaryas in the Tattvavada disciplic succession, and he established the ultimate goal of transcendentalism to be attainment of pure devotional service, love of Godhead. Those Vaisnavas belonging to the Gaudiya-sampradaya, the disciplic succession following Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, are distinct from the Tattvavadis, although they belong to the same Tattvavada-sampradaya. The followers of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu are therefore known as the Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya.

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Swaminarayan is a another god like Shiva or Vishnu but higher. The Gita Saar is the main focus of the Gita</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

 

 

 

Please post the webpage where you acquired these quotes.

It is here:

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/

[url="http://www.valmikiramayan.neb/"]